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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Troublesome Pertronix Install
Posted by: McMark Dec 31 2010, 10:23 PM
I rebuilt a distributor today and installed a Pertronix unit, and ran into a problem that I never had/noticed before. This was a 039xxx205A distributor and the problem was that the little 'finger' in the bottom right was running into the Pertronix mounting plate. This interference was completely eliminating any vacuum advance.
5 minutes with a file and it was all fixed.
If you've got a Pertronix, this would be something to look for and should be visible simply by removing the cap and rotor and jumping in the engine bay with a flashlight.
Always learn something new. 
Attached image(s)
Posted by: tradisrad Dec 31 2010, 10:30 PM
I will go and check mine. I am pretty sure I have no interference, but...
So I wonder how may people will go and check their dizzys now?
Posted by: 76-914 Dec 31 2010, 10:39 PM
Thx for the tip. 
Posted by: silver74insocal Dec 31 2010, 10:45 PM
great info! what were the symptoms that led you to this?
at some point i will go install mine..
Posted by: McMark Dec 31 2010, 11:09 PM
Well, since this was just a distributor rebuild, I discovered it when I was testing the vacuum canister. I would suck on the advance tube and it would only move the slightest bit. I knew the canister was working (tested it before installing it) so I started pulling parts off until I found the hangup.
But if a running car were suffering from this 'condition' it would lack some acceleration oomph, especially WOT acceleration.
Posted by: JRust Dec 31 2010, 11:24 PM
Ooh! That is mine I think 
Big shocker something else a little screwy with my LE 
Posted by: detoxcowboy Dec 31 2010, 11:27 PM
Nice heads up..
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jan 1 2011, 12:11 AM
Sure you bought the right Pertronix model? That question assumes there IS a right Pertronix model, which, IMO, doesn't exist.
The Cap'n, the anti-Pertronix.
Posted by: rdauenhauer Jan 1 2011, 04:24 AM
Cap'n, respect your experience but ...get over it.
Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 1 2011, 11:27 AM
thats one of those goofy things that could make a guy chase ghosts for days
..sometimes the rotor will not seat all the way down due to the clearance taken up by the magnet sleeve thing. a little grinding wheel action may be required
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jan 1 2011, 11:41 AM
Cap'n, respect your experience but ...get over it.
Personal opinion aside, there are TWO different Pertronix models for VW based distributors. One for distributors with vacuum control, one for those without.
The Cap'n
Posted by: McMark Jan 1 2011, 01:10 PM
1847V for vaccuum.
1847A for non-vacuum.
I bought the right one. 
Posted by: Drums66 Jan 3 2011, 06:13 PM
![yellowsleep[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)
....Weird 
Posted by: realred914 Jan 3 2011, 11:12 PM
I will go and check mine. I am pretty sure I have no interference, but...
So I wonder how may people will go and check their dizzys now?
Tradisrad you are ok, we checked for it when your pertronix was installed.
, I have for years since my first pertronix in a Bug, bench tested the dizzy advacne / retard operation every time i do a pertronix install. also areas of concern are the rotor hitting the unit, some roters are wider and can hit them.
So make sure you test for rubbing with the ROTOR INSTALLED ALSO!!!!! in addition to the part mcmark pointed out.
also note you can buy different pertronix ,some modles will fit better than others, but always please check the advance,/ retard operation on each new install, thats part of the install.
Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 4 2011, 10:57 AM
Not sure what all the beef is. I had one fail on me some 15 years ago, run them in just about every POS I've ever owned and they seem to hold up and work great. Shoot, I even ran one for 5 years in a 914 that logged over 20k miles. Never skipped a beat.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 4 2011, 11:24 AM
WE thought that the pertronix and compufire units, when introduced for the type four distributor, were the be all end all, and in the beginning it was: Units that eliminated the messy points condenser, kept the dwell and timing steady, provided better fuel economy, easier cold starts, and smoother idle, AND would hide under the distributor cap.
What we have learned over the years is that it has a high failure rate due to the excessive heat of the air cooled engine, actually reduces the total horsepower of the engine, AND has clearance problems! I would NEVER drive my 914 on a long trip without carrying a set of points and a condenser with me.
Too bad we thought that we had a solution. I have one in my Dad's 64 Riviera and it has never failed, but of course that is a water cooled engine with a BIG distributor!
Posted by: realred914 Jan 4 2011, 11:50 AM
WE thought that the pertronix and compufire units, when introduced for the type four distributor, were the be all end all, and in the beginning it was: Units that eliminated the messy points condenser, kept the dwell and timing steady, provided better fuel economy, easier cold starts, and smoother idle, AND would hide under the distributor cap.
What we have learned over the years is that it has a high failure rate due to the excessive heat of the air cooled engine, actually reduces the total horsepower of the engine, AND has clearance problems! I would NEVER drive my 914 on a long trip without carrying a set of points and a condenser with me.
Too bad we thought that we had a solution. I have one in my Dad's 64 Riviera and it has never failed, but of course that is a water cooled engine with a BIG distributor!
near 20 years running a pertronix in my aircooled cars, and no failures. maybe something is wrong causing it to over heat?
had plenty of points fail on me however. some even melted!!!! repaired one set of points on a road trip once, with a match book cover. points suck dick, always drifting and needing adjustment. but yes i do keep the old spare points in the spare kit, just is since using pertronix, I have never the need to install the spare points, ever. i am happy with pertronix!!! nice product
Posted by: Als914 Jan 4 2011, 12:14 PM
I guess I am one of the fortunate few who has dodged all the Pertronix failures. 
I have been running my Pertonix, model 911E, part #1847 in my daily driver since 1996 without any issues. BTW, I bought it from A.A. and had my local mechanic install it...Have been happy with it all along and have not seen or touched points since then. 
Based on my experience I would by another.
Posted by: GTeener Jan 5 2011, 03:38 PM
I had 2 fail before replacing it with an MSD which has never failed.
Posted by: windforfun Jan 5 2011, 04:17 PM
WE thought that the pertronix and compufire units, when introduced for the type four distributor, were the be all end all, and in the beginning it was: Units that eliminated the messy points condenser, kept the dwell and timing steady, provided better fuel economy, easier cold starts, and smoother idle, AND would hide under the distributor cap.
What we have learned over the years is that it has a high failure rate due to the excessive heat of the air cooled engine, actually reduces the total horsepower of the engine, AND has clearance problems! I would NEVER drive my 914 on a long trip without carrying a set of points and a condenser with me.
Too bad we thought that we had a solution. I have one in my Dad's 64 Riviera and it has never failed, but of course that is a water cooled engine with a BIG distributor!
Do you still sell these?
Posted by: Rand Jun 6 2011, 01:27 PM
WE thought that the pertronix and compufire units, when introduced for the type four distributor, were the be all end all, and in the beginning it was: Units that eliminated the messy points condenser, kept the dwell and timing steady, provided better fuel economy, easier cold starts, and smoother idle, AND would hide under the distributor cap.
What we have learned over the years is that it has a high failure rate due to the excessive heat of the air cooled engine, actually reduces the total horsepower of the engine, AND has clearance problems! I would NEVER drive my 914 on a long trip without carrying a set of points and a condenser with me.
Too bad we thought that we had a solution. I have one in my Dad's 64 Riviera and it has never failed, but of course that is a water cooled engine with a BIG distributor!
Do you still sell these?
Nah, he would never sell a product he didn't believe in. That's not his style...
http://www.autoatlanta.com/detail.php?PartNumber=RPER1847V&serial_number=28882
Kidding aside, I like the Pertronix. Sure, I would always carry points in the onboard parts/toolkit just in case. But I never had trouble with them and appreciated the benefits. To each his own.
Posted by: Als914 Jun 6 2011, 02:00 PM
I rebuilt a distributor today and installed a Pertronix unit, and ran into a problem that I never had/noticed before. This was a 039xxx205A distributor and the problem was that the little 'finger' in the bottom right was running into the Pertronix mounting plate. This interference was completely eliminating any vacuum advance.
5 minutes with a file and it was all fixed.
If you've got a Pertronix, this would be something to look for and should be visible simply by removing the cap and rotor and jumping in the engine bay with a flashlight.
Always learn something new.
Good job on notching the plate. When I installed mine some fifteen years ago the kit included the notched and non-notched plates.
Posted by: Crash207 Jun 8 2011, 04:52 PM
I just bought and installed a "Hot Spark" unit in mine. similar to the pertronix. had exactly the same issue with the baseplate but 5 mins with the file and its fine. BTW the hot spark mod is working like a champ so far. best 10 mins and $50 i have spent on this project so far.
Posted by: ThinAir Jun 8 2011, 11:08 PM
Never heard of "Hot Spark" before - do you have a link? Can you leave your ignition on like a Pertronix2?
Posted by: Derek Seymour Jun 8 2011, 11:32 PM
Personally IMHO if your engine is "close" to stock either run stock or this. http://www.hot-spark.com/Hot-Spark-SVDA034-3BOS4U1.htm
You need both vacuum and centrifugal advance for a Porsche Type IV or 1750 SC/912 engine.
Posted by: McMark Jun 9 2011, 12:02 AM
Unless you use stock D-Jet. 
Posted by: SLITS Jun 9 2011, 07:17 AM
Someday, everyone will realize that the vacuum advance is for emissions and gas mileage only. Think about it ... it will only function when there is vacuum available ... idle, part throttle cruise or de-acceleration. When accelerating, the advance is mechanical only.
Posted by: reharvey Jun 9 2011, 07:46 AM
I've installed Pertonix on four of my 914s and there was always some issue getting them to fit and work properly. Had a problem with all of the issues mentioned here. Once they're set up they seem to work very well. Rayjay
Posted by: Philip W. Jun 9 2011, 11:31 AM
Never heard of "Hot Spark" before - do you have a link? Can you leave your ignition on like a Pertronix2?
recently put the hot spark unit with coil in after car had quit the week before(points went, bad coil too) so i thought i would give it a try- cranked right up- ran great for 3 days, then car started missing - its electrical, but have not been able to chase it down yet- not ready to say the unit went bad already, i will know tonight when i trouble shoot it and try a spare- i'll let you know(could be injector points)- but for the 3 days it was the best it has run or idled since ive had the car in 2 years.
pw
Posted by: marksteinhilber Aug 1 2018, 11:26 PM
Never heard of "Hot Spark" before - do you have a link? Can you leave your ignition on like a Pertronix2?
recently put the hot spark unit with coil in after car had quit the week before(points went, bad coil too) so i thought i would give it a try- cranked right up- ran great for 3 days, then car started missing - its electrical, but have not been able to chase it down yet- not ready to say the unit went bad already, i will know tonight when i trouble shoot it and try a spare- i'll let you know(could be injector points)- but for the 3 days it was the best it has run or idled since ive had the car in 2 years.
pw
Do you have djet? You may need to clean and lube your trigger points in the bottom of the distributor.
Posted by: raynekat Aug 1 2018, 11:37 PM
Had Pertronix in my 73 911 and never had a problem with it for over 15 years. Beats the heck out of points and a condenser. To me, that is just Neanderthal tech.
Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Aug 2 2018, 02:39 AM
Never heard of "Hot Spark" before - do you have a link? Can you leave your ignition on like a Pertronix2?
recently put the hot spark unit with coil in after car had quit the week before(points went, bad coil too) so i thought i would give it a try- cranked right up- ran great for 3 days, then car started missing - its electrical, but have not been able to chase it down yet- not ready to say the unit went bad already, i will know tonight when i trouble shoot it and try a spare- i'll let you know(could be injector points)- but for the 3 days it was the best it has run or idled since ive had the car in 2 years.
pw
Do you have djet? You may need to clean and lube your trigger points in the bottom of the distributor.
Well if he hasn't fixed it in the last 7 years, I doubt he's going to bother now!
Posted by: 914werke Aug 2 2018, 08:04 AM
Nah. sure it still on jack stands
Posted by: Philip W. Aug 2 2018, 09:29 AM
blast from the past! - let me see if I can recall the issue- it was not the hotspark module, in fact I am still running that same module with out an issue at all. - I had and issue with the FI grounds shorting out on one bank , and I had a MPS take a crap as well. but if I remember correctly the issue back in 2011 was the fi grounds and some other short so I ended up buying a new harness from Jeff Bowlsby, got a different MPS which later both got rebuilt when the kits from Tangerine racing came out. at some point a few years ago I was getting a bucking issue that turned out to be the TPS circuit board, which was replaced by the new ones from davesprinkle.
Yes it is 2.0 D-jet on mine anyway, - oh and I have the new 123ignition distributor that will be going in soon.
Posted by: porschetub Aug 2 2018, 11:51 PM
Have had fitment issues,the Ignitor II kit I bought for my Bosch 6 dizzy wasn't ideal the base mounting plate didn't line up properly and needed correction.
Fair from perfect but not a huge deal.
Posted by: porschetub Aug 3 2018, 12:19 AM
WE thought that the pertronix and compufire units, when introduced for the type four distributor, were the be all end all, and in the beginning it was: Units that eliminated the messy points condenser, kept the dwell and timing steady, provided better fuel economy, easier cold starts, and smoother idle, AND would hide under the distributor cap.
What we have learned over the years is that it has a high failure rate due to the excessive heat of the air cooled engine, actually reduces the total horsepower of the engine, AND has clearance problems! I would NEVER drive my 914 on a long trip without carrying a set of points and a condenser with me.
Too bad we thought that we had a solution. I have one in my Dad's 64 Riviera and it has never failed, but of course that is a water cooled engine with a BIG distributor!
Do you still sell these?
Nah, he would never sell a product he didn't believe in. That's not his style...
http://www.autoatlanta.com/detail.php?PartNumber=RPER1847V&serial_number=28882
Kidding aside, I like the Pertronix. Sure, I would always carry points in the onboard parts/toolkit just in case. But I never had trouble with them and appreciated the benefits. To each his own.
no issues what so ever with many units fitted ,having spare parts for these systems is like carrying a second spare tyre because you might get 2 flats in a drive.Noticed on here some don't run the right coils with these units also,maybe reason for failures
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