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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 915 tranny, cv's, 5 lug conversion
Posted by: sj914 Oct 26 2004, 10:59 PM
I've got stubs and hubs from a 69 911 and a 915 tranny from a an 85. When I went to measure up the axle flanges from the 915 it matches the diameter of the stubs from the 69. Only thing is, is the 69 stubs mount the cv's with 4 bolts and 2 pins. What I was thinking is to have the 2 roll pin holes welded up and then drilled and tapped with the same size bolt hole as the other 4 bolts.
btw the 915 axle flanges and the stubs both use 10mm bolts.
Has anyone done this type of modification and on a safety stand point is this something that would be avoided.
Posted by: Series9 Oct 26 2004, 11:10 PM
Your '69 parts are not going to work with the '85 915 parts. The '69 parts are 8mm, not 10mm. If you're going to go through the trouble of doing the conversion this way, get some late 915 axles and some late 915 hubs to put together with the 10mm bolt tranny set up. If you do this, you'll need a couple of machined spacers for the hub/bearing assembly which you can get from Patrick (I'm not affiliated) for a reasonable price.
Posted by: skline Oct 26 2004, 11:17 PM
Sounds like you speak from experience. Adapters are expensive last time I checked. Pelican sells them also as does Renegade.
Posted by: Series9 Oct 26 2004, 11:24 PM
Well, the late axles and hubs are expensive too, but, unlike the earlier 901 and early 915 stuff, the late parts will last virtually forever.
BTW, the late 915 axles have the stubs as an un-detachable part of the half-shaft. So, if you're looking for parts, get the 110mm flange parts with 10mm bolts that will have the stub assembled with the axle.
You can use a stock 914 bearing with these parts, but two small spacers are necessary on the sides of both bearings to settle differences in the parts.
I think this is the best way to go, and it's the way my car is set up.
Posted by: sj914 Oct 26 2004, 11:29 PM
Sorry about that, I just checked my spreadsheet of parts and the stubs are from a '70 car.
A couple minutes ago I just double checked the bolt size on both the stubs and axle flanges and they were both 10mm.
You made a good point of the spacers, I might need those.
Now in regards to the hubs I got a line on some late 915 axles. Thats why I wanted to know about welding in the roll pin holes and then drilling tapping them to mate the 915 cv's.
Posted by: sj914 Oct 26 2004, 11:32 PM
BTW, the late 915 axles have the stubs as an un-detachable part of the half-shaft. So, if you're looking for parts, get the 110mm flange parts with 10mm bolts that will have the stub assembled with the axle.
You can use a stock 914 bearing with these parts, but two small spacers are necessary on the sides of both bearings to settle differences in the parts.
I think this is the best way to go, and it's the way my car is set up.
i didn't know that the late 915 axles had undetachable stubs.
Posted by: sj914 Oct 26 2004, 11:34 PM
I thought the 5 lug hubs fromt later cars were a no go with a 914.
Posted by: Series9 Oct 26 2004, 11:36 PM
That why you need the full set up. Parts prior to '85 are not going to work with the flanges on your tranny.
'70 parts won't work.
Posted by: Series9 Oct 26 2004, 11:37 PM
That's why you need the spacers.
Trust me. I did it.
Posted by: skline Oct 26 2004, 11:37 PM
I went with redrilled 4 lug hubs on mine, the future holds 911 or bus axles with the adapters they sell at Renegade. I need them more for the strength running the V8.
Posted by: Series9 Oct 26 2004, 11:41 PM
If you really want strength, go with the parts I've suggested. If you're using redrilled 914 hubs, you're using 901 CVs, and that's a problem for high power.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Oct 27 2004, 07:36 AM
A combo that works, from the hub inboard to the Trans....
69 911 hubs.
Use Audi 5000 front wheel bearings ( three ball bearings inside instead of two)
944 Turbo stub axle and CV joint. (bolts to the 69 911 hub with no mod, uses 100 MM cv joint with 6 bolts)
914/ 4 axle. (the 944 turbo CV is internally splined the smae as a 914/4 axle)
944 turbo CV joint.
76 911/912E transmission flange. (Same size and bolt pattern as the 944 turbo CV joint).
This will all bolt on properly with NO spacers, NO adapters, and NO redrilled hubs. You get the oversized 100 MM 944 turbo CV joints that can handle most any power you want to put through them. This will work on a 915 or a 901 transmission.
Posted by: Britain Smith Oct 27 2004, 11:47 AM
So what would you say a set of '69 hubs are worth? Possibly ones that look like this...
-Britain
Posted by: sj914 Oct 27 2004, 11:51 AM
-Britain
I bought a set of those minus stubs for 80.00
Posted by: fiid Oct 27 2004, 12:08 PM
69 911 hubs.
Use Audi 5000 front wheel bearings ( three ball bearings inside instead of two)
944 Turbo stub axle and CV joint. (bolts to the 69 911 hub with no mod, uses 100 MM cv joint with 6 bolts)
914/ 4 axle. (the 944 turbo CV is internally splined the smae as a 914/4 axle)
944 turbo CV joint.
76 911/912E transmission flange. (Same size and bolt pattern as the 944 turbo CV joint).
This will all bolt on properly with NO spacers, NO adapters, and NO redrilled hubs. You get the oversized 100 MM 944 turbo CV joints that can handle most any power you want to put through them. This will work on a 915 or a 901 transmission.
That's COOL! I don't even want to know how you figured that out. OK - I do.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Oct 27 2004, 12:17 PM
69 911 hubs.
Use Audi 5000 front wheel bearings ( three ball bearings inside instead of two)
944 Turbo stub axle and CV joint. (bolts to the 69 911 hub with no mod, uses 100 MM cv joint with 6 bolts)
914/ 4 axle. (the 944 turbo CV is internally splined the smae as a 914/4 axle)
944 turbo CV joint.
76 911/912E transmission flange. (Same size and bolt pattern as the 944 turbo CV joint).
This will all bolt on properly with NO spacers, NO adapters, and NO redrilled hubs. You get the oversized 100 MM 944 turbo CV joints that can handle most any power you want to put through them. This will work on a 915 or a 901 transmission.
That's COOL! I don't even want to know how you figured that out. OK - I do.
I can't take credit for it. Wes Hildreth of H&H in Plano figured it out. He's been doing this stuff since a 914 was new. I am just passing along the knowledge.
Posted by: datapace Oct 27 2004, 12:21 PM
Has anyone here actually *done* this? 
It's an interesting route, but I'd hate to round up all the parts and then find out something is incorrect. It's not like some of those parts are easy to come by.
-bryan
Posted by: andys Oct 27 2004, 04:47 PM
Does anyone have any info (like a number) for that Audi 5000 bearing. A quick check revealed a couple of different options available (not sure what those options are). Dimensions would confirm if this is a fit or not.
The 914 bearing measures 42mm ID X 75mm OD X 37mm thick. My '89 Carrera bearing measures 42mm ID x 80mm od x 42mm thick.
Andy
Posted by: sj914 Oct 27 2004, 07:46 PM
The Audi and 944 parts idea sounds interesting, has anyone else done this or do the welding of the roll pin holes as stated on the first post?
Posted by: ClayPerrine Oct 28 2004, 05:56 AM
Wes has actually done this on 6 different cars. I have all the parts for mine except the transmission drive flanges. I will be documenting it and posting it on the board for everyone to see.
Posted by: soloracer Mar 19 2005, 07:41 PM
| QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Oct 27 2004, 05:36 AM) |
| A combo that works, from the hub inboard to the Trans.... 69 911 hubs. Use Audi 5000 front wheel bearings ( three ball bearings inside instead of two) 944 Turbo stub axle and CV joint. (bolts to the 69 911 hub with no mod, uses 100 MM cv joint with 6 bolts) 914/ 4 axle. (the 944 turbo CV is internally splined the smae as a 914/4 axle) 944 turbo CV joint. 76 911/912E transmission flange. (Same size and bolt pattern as the 944 turbo CV joint). This will all bolt on properly with NO spacers, NO adapters, and NO redrilled hubs. You get the oversized 100 MM 944 turbo CV joints that can handle most any power you want to put through them. This will work on a 915 or a 901 transmission. |
Sorry for ressurecting this dead thread but I had a question for Clay. In your axle set up what transmission are you using? Or does it even matter? I have what appears to be a magnesium case 915 transmission that is converted to a side shifter by Vellios that I plan to use. Will the parts you recommend work for me?
Posted by: sj914 Mar 20 2005, 03:57 AM
From what clay listed, your mag tranny should work with those parts. The factory switched back to the big c.v.'s in late '85 so your tranny should have the smaller 100mm output flanges.
Posted by: Verruckt Mar 20 2005, 10:25 AM
| QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Oct 27 2004, 07:36 AM) |
| A combo that works, from the hub inboard to the Trans.... 69 911 hubs. Use Audi 5000 front wheel bearings ( three ball bearings inside instead of two) 944 Turbo stub axle and CV joint. (bolts to the 69 911 hub with no mod, uses 100 MM cv joint with 6 bolts) 914/ 4 axle. (the 944 turbo CV is internally splined the smae as a 914/4 axle) 944 turbo CV joint. 76 911/912E transmission flange. (Same size and bolt pattern as the 944 turbo CV joint). This will all bolt on properly with NO spacers, NO adapters, and NO redrilled hubs. You get the oversized 100 MM 944 turbo CV joints that can handle most any power you want to put through them. This will work on a 915 or a 901 transmission. |
How does this setup compare strengthwise to the later 915 setup? I would think price would be obvious.
Posted by: Steve Mar 20 2005, 12:24 PM
Bigger is always better.
I'm curious what size bus CV's are used with the Renegade kit??
I looked through my Porsche Parts and technical reference catalog.
CV=1975-84 923.332.032.00 = 100mm
Axle=1975-84 923.332.033.02 = 100mm
CV=1985-89 911.332.923.01 = 108mm Friction welded
Axle=1985-89 911.332.024.14 = 108mm with Friction welded CV's
Turbo and Turbo Look up to 1984 has bolted 108mm CV's.
Turbo and Turbo look 1985-89 has bolted 108mm bolted CV's with diferent hub than the above.
1985-89 Non Turbo and non Turbo look have 108mm friction welded CV's and diferent hub than the above.
1975-84 CV bolt M8x50
1985-89 CV bolt M10x50
This was out of Technical Bulletin #5
Posted by: scott thacher Mar 20 2005, 01:15 PM
i wonder if the drive flanges from the 944/5000 tranny would work in a 901. the audi and 944 tranny are basicly the same except starter stuff. which probably explains why the audi bearings work. which brings up the thought of " if the 5000 cvs or hub would work ", yes i know they are fwd but who cares if we way more flexiblity than we need. i mean for drive train stuff the 944 is audi
Posted by: Otmar Mar 20 2005, 01:48 PM
| QUOTE (Steve @ Mar 20 2005, 11:24 AM) |
| Bigger is always better. I'm curious what size bus CV's are used with the Renegade kit?? |
One more data point:
I bought a set of CV's and adaptors from Renegade some time ago. $440. both sides or $280.00 adaptor plates only.
I think I was told the CV's were "930 style" with bus splines. Maybe they said 915 and I mixed it up. I'm quite familiar with bus parts and what I got was bus CVs and nice adaptors to fit. They are not the larger diameter 930 style.
The bus CV's are smaller than the 930 CVs which I later went to (but bus CVs are also larger than the 914 CVs)
The bus CVs have 8mm bolts. The 930 axles and CVs that I now use have 10 mm bolts.
hth,
Posted by: sj914 Mar 20 2005, 03:00 PM
| QUOTE (Otmar @ Mar 20 2005, 11:48 AM) |
| The bus CV's are smaller than the 930 CVs which I later went to (but bus CVs are also larger than the 914 CVs) hth, |
So the bus cv's are just thicker?
Posted by: Otmar Mar 20 2005, 03:21 PM
| QUOTE (sj914 @ Mar 20 2005, 02:00 PM) |
| So the bus cv's are just thicker? |
I think only the 930 CV's are thicker.
The Bus CVs are larger diameter than the 914/bug CVs.
Let me look around a bit:
914 CV's 90 mm at flange (93mm body) Just measured.
Bus CVs 100mm (from the web)
The above two are about the same thickness (from experience).
"930' CV's 108mm (from above) and thicker (from experience). These are used in off road applications for their strength and larger angular capability.
hth,
Posted by: Luke M Mar 26 2005, 11:45 AM
I'm going to use 86-89 carrera axles, early 911 hubs, and Patrick Motorsports flange spacers for 901 gear box. Check out pics. 
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Luke M Mar 26 2005, 11:45 AM
One more:
Attached image(s)
Posted by: datapace Mar 26 2005, 01:06 PM
Nice!
How much were the adapters/spacers from Patrick? I can't seem to find them on their site. It looks like they are only on the inboard side, is there any other spacing you need to do on the stub axle side?
The carrera axles and stubs are one piece IRCC right?
-Bryan
Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Mar 26 2005, 01:26 PM
Thats the same setup as I'm using but I have a 5mm spacer on the early 911 hub to space it out to use a vented rotor. The spacer came from Patrick
Posted by: Luke M Mar 26 2005, 05:41 PM
datapace, the spacers from patrick are $190 pr.
Spacers mount to your 901 trans. then cv to spacer.
No spacer needed at spindle end, but you must use the early 911 hubs. with the 86-89 axle. The axle/spindle are one piece, I got the parts from Parts Heaven, I think for $350.
Posted by: Steve Mar 26 2005, 07:03 PM
That sounds like the way to go.
What would you need to change if you ever swap your 901 for a late model 915??
Since the axles are designed for the late model 915 would they work or would they be to short?
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