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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 914/6 header questions....

Posted by: ChicagoPete Jan 10 2005, 05:50 AM

Will be running a 2.7 with Webers in my 914/6 and am looking at 1 5/8" O.D. headers available. Does anyone have comparison experience between those offered by Bursch, Patrick Motorsports and GT Racing. Does it matter which muffler you use with any of these?...my thoughts was to use a 2 in 3 out sport muffler...single outlet for street use and cap off the single outlet and use the dual outlet for track.

Posted by: Red-Beard Jan 10 2005, 06:05 AM

I've used a 2 in 2 out sport and they are loud. I used to set off car alarms running around parking lots.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 10 2005, 07:07 AM

Welcome Pete IPB Image

X-Chicagoian myself... 6033 N. Sheridan

I think the sport mufflers vary so widely. I heard a couple at an event this summer that were "very" mild at idle. Both owners stated that they were a bit loud at speed.

I bought a new pair of Bursch headers and bead blasted the shitty paint off them. Repainted them and a sport muffler with POR-20. Made the sport muffler a couple months ago from an extra 911 muffler I had laying around and some old UpFix'n instructions that were in Pano (or something like that).

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Posted by: campbellcj Jan 10 2005, 01:30 PM

I have the Bursch headers -- Jet Hot coated -- and the Dansk SS 2in/2out sport muffler. It's a pretty nice setup IMHO. The Bursch header uses a triangular collector design vs. the European Racing (same as GT sells I think) flat collector.

I.E. Bursch --

o
oo

Euro

ooo

Also, the Bursch flanges are in the stock location for use of a street-type muffler where the Euro is about 6" shorter and requires extensions to use a stock style muffler. This also means you'd want 12" megaphones with the Bursch vs. 18" for the Euro.

As to which is really built better or performs better, I dunno. The ultimate is probably the S-Car-Go stainless headers, but they're like $3000....

I don't know which ones Patrick sells but they may be GHL?

Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 10 2005, 02:44 PM

Bursch headers and stock muffler. The stock muffler works well for low/mid range tq and is quiet compared to most other mufflers out there.

Bursch is fine, but yeah, strip off the paint and have them powder coated or something. The paint burns off in minutes. IPB Image

I wouldn't go any larger than 1 5/8" on the headers, you will start to loose tq on a 2.7

Posted by: ! Jan 10 2005, 05:21 PM

Euro makes two styles...one for a street muff and one for megaphones. I made a set of extension so I can run both....

BTW euro makes a far superior set of headers.

BTW2
I have an extra banaa muff that would be a good conversion candidate.

Posted by: ChicagoPete Jan 11 2005, 04:00 AM

Hey Eric...funny I grew up in the city proper at 6000N as well, but, I was as far west in the city as you can get...where you were as far east as you can go...

As far as sport mufflers go are any of them baffled? Looking at this on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4518380594&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Says this is straight thru. Has got to be loud... And I work midnites!

Does the Dansk 2 in 2 out have baffles?

Been to Google to take a look at the Euro headers and can't seem to find a picture of them...see a couple of different places carry them.

Any advantages/disadvantages to a flat type collector to the triangular type? Seems Patrick Motorsports is also a flat type...perhaps there is also the same as GT Racing, and Euro?

Thanks for all the input on this...

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 11 2005, 01:03 PM

Correct... any further east and you get really wet. My Balcony was on the 34th floor overlooking Lake Michigan. I loved that!

Now... on to headers. With the flat vs. the triangle, I think you'd be arguing over 1/2 hp or something. I could be wrong. Could you get a better built muffler? Yes. After bead blasting mine clean it's easy to see the welding work is just "OK". After bead blasting my "factory" muffler clean, it's easy to see the welding work is just "OK" as well... So, no doubt, Euro, and S-Car-Go and Patrick will probably make a better product but I believe the Bursh, properly treated (again, I used POR-20) will last the life of your -6 or conversion. Some have had fitment problems... (Clay?) Now you're into the "you decide" territory.

The Auto-Farm muffler is easy to build. Those little caps would be difficult but not impossible. I don't think the factory sport mufflers are loud. If you come slamming into the parking lot at 5-6000rpm at midnight you may have a problem but idling in, in second gear shouldn't offend "anyone"

Here's a thread where I posted the muffler mod. Get a decent factory muffler from Z and mod it if you want otherwise... leave it stock.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=20235&hl=

Posted by: trekkor Jan 11 2005, 03:16 PM

Here's what I'm using from MSDS.
Marty ( Maltese Falcon ) is a WCC sponsor and can set you up for a very competitive price.

KT

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Posted by: trekkor Jan 11 2005, 03:19 PM

Or, here's another option...

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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 11 2005, 08:26 PM

The Martin Schnieder pieces look very nice, I'll have to check on getting those.

I've been selling nothing but European Racing Headers for the past five years, or the B&B stainless headers with heat. I aways get them with the street adapters. If you want more peformance and loudness you can always get the ERH's megaphones, which bolt up to the headers in place of the muffler and street adapters.

Don't get me started on Bursch (pronounced IPB Image ). In the scope of a conversion project you can probably cough up the extra $100 it costs to get a quality header system.

As far as mufflers, I've had great results with the Dansk. It's hard to beat the factory style mufflers for sound and performance, there's a reason Porsche made them like that! If you don't plan to drive the car for more than 30 minutes at a time, you might be OK with a dual outlet, as those things are loud and get anoying on long trips. Some of the dual outlet mufflers have bad resonance.

I'm a former northern IL'er. Grew up in the Elgin area. Every time I go back, I can't believe how fast things change. I remember going to Chicago as a kid, and driving through quite a bit of farmland before you hit the suburbs. Now everything east of Elgin is almost totally populated, and you've got to drive west to find any farmland. Miss the cosmopolitan stuff you can get, see, and do in Chicago, but don't miss all the congestion.

Posted by: Series9 Jan 11 2005, 08:41 PM

Deja vu:

Screw the neighbors!

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Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 11 2005, 09:23 PM

QUOTE
Some have had fitment problems... (Clay?)

Nope... it was Perry IPB Image