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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Lifters going south, I was right.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 11 2005, 10:58 AM
Scat lube-a-lobes with 500miles on them. Scat C-25 cam...
Looks like they're not even turning in their bores.
Charles has a PM...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 11 2005, 11:03 AM
Hmmm, that's not good, Dude! Are they flat instead of domed?
Geoff
Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 11 2005, 12:06 PM
Same exact problem I see on the spintron..
To the "T".. In many ways I hate to see and hear about the issue, but at the same time its refreshing to see the exact same issue occuring somewhere else so far away.
BTW, thats not a material issue, thats a radius issue, the lifter has too much radius thus placing all the l;oad on the nose in the very center of the lifter.
The next thing that happens is that the lifter stops spinning due to that huge divot in the center of it, and then it is consumed by the engine 100%.
You caught it in time....
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 11 2005, 12:38 PM
I didn't build this engine so no use in me bitching to Scat. That said it IS their lifters and cam on an otherwise stock engine. I know this cam...it's quite mild and sucky.
I've already snagged a set of ceramics for it, as the customer already approved that....now to see what direction he wants to go on the rest of the engine.
I will want to tear it down, I don't trust this cam now period.
Jake does Scat even dyno any of their parts?
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 11 2005, 03:11 PM
Engine is boned...failed leak-down, bet it has gaskets in there. Looks like it's dropping a seat, but all the exhaust adjusters are out of wack...probably all the seats are cut beyond spec. It had a couple of pulled exhaust studs…needs a proper exhaust. Etc.etc.etc.
Guy's into it for serious coin...
Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 11 2005, 03:16 PM
Bummer, should have bought a Jake engine I guess? Sounds like you have some work ahead of you. At least the guy will have a good engine after all is said and done.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 11 2005, 03:33 PM
Jake isn't the only guy who can build a good engine.... 
That said he is a leader in our field and I'll be getting (and already have) some of his bonus parts in stock.
This guy doesn't even own a 'puter...total newbie to boot.
Going to be a hard lesson.
Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 11 2005, 08:23 PM
Some poloitically correct admin edited my post...
Actually 
deleted it!
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 11 2005, 09:10 PM
| QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jan 11 2005, 06:23 PM) |
| Some poloitically correct admin edited my post... |
huh? wasn't me!
can you please repeat what you said!
Andy
Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 11 2005, 11:30 PM
yeah please repost Jake as I love it when you talk about lifters.......
Geoff
Posted by: pete-stevers Jan 11 2005, 11:36 PM
Who the heck is Jake I am assuming he is a hot four builder 
thanks
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 11 2005, 11:47 PM
I talked to Jake and I know the jest of his deleted post...let’s just say he's not to impressed with some of the lifter/cam manufactures...to put it mildly.
He is doing their R&D work...and they make him pay for the parts....totally insane.
Jake needs our support!
Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 12 2005, 12:15 AM
I have been getting support!
THANK GOD! We are now so close to a remedy that its just insane- I can smell it!
Basically what I said was that these friggin parts pushers that **THINK** that they know what they are selling have no damn clue!
I was pretty radical innmy post that got deleted, so I'll shorten it and summarize.
If they all starved to death from losing their jobs for LYING to people I'd grin from ear to ear....
Another one pissed me off today! The whole thing is that they DON"T want me to test the shit! They probably know the damn issue exists but they have 50K worth of lifters on the shelf and are only concerned that the damn things last long enough so that theycan blame the issue on something else in the engine- Or the assembler...
Basically they are not giving me any break on lifters so it will discourage the truth through my testing. Its a pretty good plan they have, but since I have the support of those here its not near as discouraging.
The guy I called today basically told me their lifters were the "Most developed available" its funny that the sorry bastard didn't even know the crown radius or what type of taper the **perfect** cam would have on its nose. He didn't even know how much the lifters weighed.
He sent me 3 sets of his junk, and if it goes flat I think I'll just have to fly to his place and shove one so far up his ass that he can taste it.
I hate a damn liar, almost as much as a thief. The parts pukes that push shit that they don't test AT ALL should be hung by their balls!
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 12 2005, 12:18 AM
| QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jan 11 2005, 11:15 PM) |
| I have been getting support! THANK GOD! We are now so close to a remedy that its just insane- I can smell it! Basically what I said was that these friggin parts pushers that **THINK** that they know what they are selling have no damn clue! I was pretty radical innmy post that got deleted, so I'll shorten it and summarize. If they all starved to death from losing their jobs for LYING to people I'd grin from ear to ear.... Another one pissed me off today! The whole thing is that they DON"T want me to test the shit! They probably know the damn issue exists but they have 50K worth of lifters on the shelf and are only concerned that the damn things last long enough so that theycan blame the issue on something else in the engine- Or the assembler... Basically they are not giving me any break on lifters so it will discourage the truth through my testing. Its a pretty good plan they have, but since I have the support of those here its not near as discouraging. The guy I called today basically told me their lifters were the "Most developed available" its funny that the sorry bastard didn't even know the crown radius or what type of taper the **perfect** cam would have on its nose. He didn't even know how much the lifters weighed. He sent me 3 sets of his junk, and if it goes flat I think I'll just have to fly to his place and shove one so far up his ass that he can taste it. I hate a damn liar, almost as much as a thief. The parts pukes that push shit that they don't test AT ALL should be hung by their balls! |
jake ..
tell us how you really feel
i can understand.....that sucks.
Posted by: Dr Evil Jan 12 2005, 12:30 AM
These poeple will only understand loss of proffit in the form of littigation. I think that it would be easy enough to find folks that have been wronged by this company and to file a class action or something. Hit them where they live.
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 12 2005, 12:35 AM
| QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 11 2005, 10:18 PM) |
| jake .. tell us how you really feel |
i knew this was going to be good! 
but on a more serious note, i really apprechiate all the hard work and time & effort & money you pour into this!
the T4 community owes you one!
Andy
Posted by: MattR Jan 12 2005, 12:38 AM
| QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Jan 11 2005, 10:30 PM) |
| These poeple will only understand loss of proffit in the form of littigation. I think that it would be easy enough to find folks that have been wronged by this company and to file a class action or something. Hit them where they live. |
Would the VW community really be better without SCAT in existance?
Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 12 2005, 12:39 AM
Jake...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 12 2005, 01:41 AM
LOL...
Ya'll boys asked for it!
LOL
Scat isn't the big issue right now... I pretty much gave up on them last year. They do have a "New batch" of lifters coming out soon- We'll see...
Scat is like an Angel compared to some of the real pukes out there...
Although, the contact at Scat pisses me off faster than anyone else.... He asked me if I had coil bind, and "proper spring tension"....Hell, it had STOCK FRIGGIN SPRINGS and still exploded a lifter cup- BEFORE IT EVER CRANKED UP THE FIRST TIME!
Now I am digging up every stock lifter we have that is used and working with them... I picked up almost 2,000 of them out of the back warehouse earlier..... Its gonna be real funny if a 35 year old part reconditioned is better than the crap the parts pushers are pawning off on us...
Posted by: McMark Jan 12 2005, 01:51 AM
I'm getting into the lifter business too! I have some nice rod stock and a drill bit. What I do is I cut a chunk off the stock and drill a little divot into it for the pushrod. Bam! Done! Line forms here, $75 a set.
Posted by: scotty b Jan 12 2005, 06:40 AM
Jake , have you ever thought about writing a performance handbook for type 4's similar to the 911 book. Something to show the mods for longevity and power and maybe who's parts to use? I would think there might be a legal way of naming who NOT to buy from. Your knowledge could save people alot of $$$ and maybe teach these parts suppliers to build quality parts. I personally have had trouble with POOR fitting sheet metal from those great guys down south. I know I would buy a copy!!!! 
Posted by: DNHunt Jan 12 2005, 07:09 AM
Jake
You're the right guy for the job. Kind of like a bulldog with a hunk of the seat of the pants. The parts people got to be worried you don't get a hunk of the fannies they're sitting on. We all lucked out with you taking the point on this issue. It's pretty easy to send a check or make a contribution.
Thanks for your hard work
Dave
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 12 2005, 08:14 AM
| QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jan 12 2005, 03:41 AM) |
| Although, the contact at Scat pisses me off faster than anyone else.... He asked me if I had coil bind, and "proper spring tension"....Hell, it had STOCK FRIGGIN SPRINGS and still exploded a lifter cup- BEFORE IT EVER CRANKED UP THE FIRST TIME! |
Jake told me to do some little tests on these now junk lifters.
The owner is coming up (2 1/2 hours one way) this afternoon to see the mess of his 500 mile engine, once I have his Ok I will do these tests and post the results here for all to see.
Total stock valvetrain.
BTW when I was talking to Jake I told him that I heard a "pop" like a spring seating, when I replaced the lifters to do a leakdown test. He's pretty sure one of the pushrod cups exploded.
Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 12 2005, 09:38 AM
Scotty,
I have been working on a handbook since 1999 or so. It started out as just a compilation of my stuff so I would not forget it. Then when I got on the net I saw the demand for the stuff and guys wanted me to publish something. Its not a priority now, but maybe when I get some of my time back in the summer I'll take the time to finish it.
I have way more ability on video than in the book, so be looking for more videos in late 05 and 06 including the Performance engine rebuild video.
The hunt for ALL the TIV parts anyone could need and a quality company that does test their parts and KNOWS what works is about to get VERY interesting and CHEAPER too!
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 12 2005, 12:14 PM
If you publish, be prepared for people to hunt down your phone number and call you up. They'll want free advice (they'll want you to tell them exactly how to build their engine so they can turn around and buy the parts from the "value" retailers), they'll want to suck up your time just talking about nothing, they'll want to tell you how wrong some part (or all of!) your book is, they'll scream and shout and tell you how you personally exploded their motor that they built following your book "exactly"... There are a myriad of morons out there, and it seems like every single stinkin' one of them buys the book and has to call you up to yell at you.
Have a nice long talk with Wayne about it some time. I only catch the very fringe of all of that--and what I see is more than bad enough.
If you publish anything, you have to be able to deal with idiots without having your blood pressure go through the roof. That seems to be the way of the world....
--DD
Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 12 2005, 01:28 PM
I already talked to Wayne about it... Trying to find a publisher.
I am unavailable by phone and don't answer it- Ever.... All my emails are screened through the receptionist and those that don't have any content of being interested in my services are replied to with a nice little message that I saved just for the occasion.
On the last page of the book, or the next video the rules will be very direct and plain- Jake style!
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