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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Rear sway bar not needed?
Posted by: DougC Jan 27 2005, 09:14 AM
I was reading the article in excellence about the Max Moritz GT car, and apparently they disconnected the rear sway bar and it handled alot better. Would this be true on a mostly street car (914/6)?
Doug C
Posted by: mudfoot76 Jan 27 2005, 09:28 AM
I had a rear sway bar only (big one too) on the back of my car (2.0 4cyl) and it became less twitchy after I removed it. A big difference? Not sure, but it was noticeable....
Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 27 2005, 09:35 AM
| QUOTE (DougC @ Jan 27 2005, 10:14 AM) |
| I was reading the article in excellence about the Max Moritz GT car, and apparently they disconnected the rear sway bar and it handled alot better. Would this be true on a mostly street car (914/6)? |
maybe so, maybe no. there are A LOT of factors.
this is what testing is all about.
if you fundamentally like the car's balance and spring rate but you just can't seem to dial out an understeer, maybe more roll stiffness in back will help.
there's also a narrow overlap region between "handles better" and "goes faster."
(mild) understeering cars tend to feel more comfortable and secure -- but the car might be ultimately faster closer to the edge. what you are trying to achieve is a huge part of the equation...
Posted by: 9146986 Jan 27 2005, 09:49 AM
The generally accepted theory is that if the car's got limited slip then you need a rear bar.
For a street car I like the rear bar regardless of the diff. That's just my personal preference though.
Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 27 2005, 10:28 AM
| QUOTE (9146986 @ Jan 27 2005, 10:49 AM) |
| The generally accepted theory is that if the car's got limited slip then you need a rear bar. For a street car I like the rear bar regardless of the diff. |
i thought it was the other way - with a rear bar, you are much more likely to -need- LSD. ('cause it tends to unload the inside rear in cornering...)
but it all ties together -- LSD tends to make the car go straighter, which in cornering, is perceived as understeer...
i drove with a rear bar and liked it, too...
Posted by: jim912928 Jan 27 2005, 10:32 AM
I love my rear bar...to me it made a big difference on the street.
Posted by: itsa914 Jan 27 2005, 10:58 AM
I disconnect my bar when I AX because I like the feel better with my rear koni's adjusted to full firm with no bar, but I like it for street driving with the koni's set to full soft. 
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jan 27 2005, 11:05 AM
If you got a aftermarket bigger front bar then you need a rear bar of at least stock dia.
I do my testing in a parking lot and push the car to it's limits. How fast I can go in relation to how much push or how lse the car gets. Speed is the variable here.
Old guy at Autocross event says to me " Ya know son, if you disconnectthe rear bar you will go faster"...
Well I did and DID NOT GO FASTER Pushed like my Explorer. Stayed with it for all runs and tried to drive through the crappy handling. ended up pushing do badly that I induced a snap spin. Pretty spectacular but not fast at all.
So the moarl of the story is ........ Test you car where it is safe then figure out what to change. Then test again. Soft springs and big bars. 
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jan 27 2005, 11:09 AM
| QUOTE (itsa914 @ Jan 27 2005, 08:58 AM) |
| I disconnect my bar when I AX because I like the feel better with my rear koni's adjusted to full firm with no bar, but I like it for street driving with the koni's set to full soft. |
Just for grins go try your Koni's at 1/2 and the bar connected. You will have grip like never before.
Shocks keep the tires connected to the ground. Sway bars keep the car and suspension inline with the tires and the ground.
Posted by: itsa914 Jan 27 2005, 11:20 AM
| QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jan 27 2005, 09:09 AM) | ||
Just for grins go try your Koni's at 1/2 and the bar connected. You will have grip like never before. Shocks keep the tires connected to the ground. Sway bars keep the car and suspension inline with the tires and the ground. |
I have, and I didn't like it. But I plan to try it agian this season.
Posted by: trekkor Jan 27 2005, 04:20 PM
| QUOTE |
| Soft springs and big bars. |
Yes to that!
My rear bar will always be on. Just plain handles better.
Koni's firm front soft rear, Mighty Bar up front.
really good and predictable.
KT
Posted by: Steve Jan 27 2005, 07:50 PM
I'm running a stock rear bar and 22mm sway bar up front.
There's a corner on the way home that goes up and down in the corner.
Without the rear sway bar when you go up and then down the weight is lifted off the rear wheels and the car would spin out.
With the rear sway bar it prevents the rear from lifting up in the corner and the car no longer spins out.
I think a six with the extra weight is better with a rear sway bar for the street.
I'm also running a 3.2 which is heavier than the earlier magnesium motors.
Most of the 914-6 cars on the track I noticed do not use a rear sway bar.
Posted by: scotty b Jan 27 2005, 07:55 PM
| QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 27 2005, 02:20 PM) | ||
Yes to that! My rear bar will always be on. Just plain handles better. Koni's firm front soft rear, Mighty Bar up front. really good and predictable. KT |
That sounds kinda perverse....I'm just not sure how yet............
Posted by: xitspd Jan 27 2005, 08:00 PM
| QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jan 27 2005, 09:05 AM) |
| If you got a aftermarket bigger front bar then you need a rear bar of at least stock dia. I do my testing in a parking lot and push the car to it's limits. How fast I can go in relation to how much push or how lse the car gets. Speed is the variable here. Old guy at Autocross event says to me " Ya know son, if you disconnectthe rear bar you will go faster"... Well I did and DID NOT GO FASTER Pushed like my Explorer. Stayed with it for all runs and tried to drive through the crappy handling. ended up pushing do badly that I induced a snap spin. Pretty spectacular but not fast at all. So the moarl of the story is ........ Test you car where it is safe then figure out what to change. Then test again. Soft springs and big bars. |
I agree! I run heavy Charlie Bars on the front of my 6's and a stock factory bar on the rear with favorable results. Both 6's have LSD as well.
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