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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 914-6 conversion?
Posted by: hyespeed May 31 2016, 02:52 PM
I want to have a 6 swap done and wanted to know what kind of pricing or is there someone in California to call and get an idea of what it will take?
Posted by: SirAndy May 31 2016, 03:05 PM
There used to be but he moved.
If you are talking about a smaller /6 (2.0 - 2.4), that can still be done somewhat on the cheap side since it doesn't require upgrading the chassis, brakes or suspension.
Anything bigger than that and you're looking at a lot more expenses. Bigger brakes, upgraded suspension, wider wheels, external oil cooling, upgraded transmission, chassis stiffening etc etc etc
Plus, of course, the cost of the engine itself.
My /6 conversion was about $15k in parts alone and that was 10 years ago. See my build thread in my signature for details.
Posted by: 2mAn May 31 2016, 03:12 PM
Most of the current conversions for sale now are around 30-40k. If you have the means it might be easier to just buy a finished one
Posted by: hyespeed May 31 2016, 03:47 PM
Yeah that seems to be the consensus but at those prices might as well buy a 911. I like my 914 it just needs to be cleaned up and motor running so I figured a 2.7 or 3.0 swap to get it moving. But 30-40k get a 2.7 pre smog.
Posted by: DBCooper May 31 2016, 04:06 PM
Cool, I think that's the first time I've seen that, the price of 914's are so high that you may as well buy a 911.
Posted by: mb911 May 31 2016, 04:20 PM
Cool, I think that's the first time I've seen that, the price of 914's are so high that you may as well buy a 911.
911s are great and I have owned an sc, carrera, turbo and a 964 all are great.. Non were as much fun as my 6 conversion.. But to each there own.
Posted by: PanelBilly May 31 2016, 04:35 PM
Complete drivetrain fully rebuilt $21,000 plus you do a lot of work. The 911 will cost the same so I honk it's a matter of body style and mid engine/ tail dragger preference. That gets you high end parts that are worthy of the time you'll invest
Posted by: hyespeed May 31 2016, 05:07 PM
What kind of power can you get out of the 4 cylinder and what would it cost or where is good place to look for 911 motors? Or are there preferred shops to contact to do the fabrication?
Posted by: SirAndy May 31 2016, 05:19 PM
How much money do you have?
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: hyespeed May 31 2016, 05:25 PM
I mean realistically is it worth building the stock motor or spending 30k on a swap? That's why I ask is there anyone most would recommend to give me a solid figure and performance specs?
Posted by: RobW May 31 2016, 05:30 PM
A build is worth the love of building it, and the end result, but the rest is challenging and expensive.
Posted by: hyespeed May 31 2016, 06:12 PM
Well if anyone has a shop to contact to make an inquiry I would appreciate it. Thanks
Posted by: Jeffs9146 May 31 2016, 06:29 PM
Well if anyone has a shop to contact to make an inquiry I would appreciate it. Thanks
Where in Central California are you?
If you decide to do a conversion find the motor first. If you can't find what you want then you will save money rather than paying a shop for doing the leg work and spending top dollar to do the conversion.
A 2.0L, 2.4L and 2.7L will just bolt in with no flywheel modification and save you a few bucks. Anything up to a 3.2L is not that hard to do most of the stuff yourself.
Take it slow and amass the parts.
Jeff
Posted by: hyespeed May 31 2016, 06:34 PM
Thanks Jeff, I'm in Fresno and I appreciate the the help.
Posted by: Coondog May 31 2016, 06:44 PM
Just my two cents..............ERRRRRRRR. I MEAN $38,000 that's what Patrick Motorsport quoted me for a turn key 2.7 motor.
I was like ok Bro no problem............ 
Then I went to FAT Proformance in Orange Calif. they were about 1/3 of the price for a turn key 2270....... 
I understand the HP difference and the whole 6 vs 4 cool factor thing, just can't justify that type of pricing. I have been looking at Calif auto dismantling, there average price for a 3.2 is about $ 10,000. I figure another $ 5,000 for misc parts and shit happens stuff that pops up and I am good as brakes and 5 lug stuff is already done.
Posted by: mepstein May 31 2016, 07:00 PM
Just my two cents..............ERRRRRRRR. I MEAN $38,000 that's what Patrick Motorsport quoted me for a turn key 2.7 motor.
I was like ok Bro no problem............
Then I went to FAT Proformance in Orange Calif. they were about 1/3 of the price for a turn key 2270.......
I understand the HP difference and the whole 6 vs 4 cool factor thing, just can't justify that type of pricing. I have been looking at Calif auto dismantling, there average price for a 3.2 is about $ 10,000. I figure another $ 5,000 for misc parts and shit happens stuff that pops up and I am good as brakes and 5 lug stuff is already done.
No way will you do it for just $5k over the 3.2 engine. Do you just have five lug or do you have a 911 drivetrain with large cv's. You will need oil tank, modify on engine oil cooler, oil console, oil fill, thermostat, hard and soft lines and oil cooling, clutch and pressure plate. suspension, engine mount, accelerator linkage, tach, speed sensors, oil pressure and temp gauge. Engine to body harness, engine sheet metal, headers, exhaust, ect.
Posted by: Coondog May 31 2016, 07:24 PM
Just my two cents..............ERRRRRRRR. I MEAN $38,000 that's what Patrick Motorsport quoted me for a turn key 2.7 motor.
I was like ok Bro no problem............
Then I went to FAT Proformance in Orange Calif. they were about 1/3 of the price for a turn key 2270.......
I understand the HP difference and the whole 6 vs 4 cool factor thing, just can't justify that type of pricing. I have been looking at Calif auto dismantling, there average price for a 3.2 is about $ 10,000. I figure another $ 5,000 for misc parts and shit happens stuff that pops up and I am good as brakes and 5 lug stuff is already done.
No way will you do it for just $5k over the 3.2 engine. Do you just have five lug or do you have a 911 drivetrain with large cv's. You will need oil tank, modify on engine oil cooler, oil console, oil fill, thermostat, hard and soft lines and oil cooling, clutch and pressure plate. suspension, engine mount, accelerator linkage, tach, speed sensors, oil pressure and temp gauge. Engine to body harness, engine sheet metal, headers, exhaust, ect.
911 stuff already done by PMS. Guess I will have to revisit the extras....
Makes FAT look that much more appealing.
Posted by: echocanyons May 31 2016, 07:48 PM
No one in the valley that I know of.
I sent mine to Eric in Salt Lake City after Mark moved.
Posted by: Cairo94507 May 31 2016, 08:11 PM
Welcome. I agree wth 2mAn - find a conversion that has all of the hard work done and grab it and finish it to your liking. You can do that for 1/2 the price or better in all likelihood.
Or, if you have the car already and want to make your car the way you want it, put it on a trailer or transport to Eric's shop in Utah.
I think this is the kind of thing that if you have the skills - you are blessed. Most of us mere mortals, can write a check and know what we want, but lack the ability to actually do the work any more, if ever.
Conversions pop up regularly that make excellent starting points.
Posted by: hyespeed May 31 2016, 08:22 PM
Yeah it's a difficult choice but big money either it seems as though a built 2.3 IV will run about 9k which is not far off the base price of a 6. What is the name of the shop or the contact for Eric?
To be honest the real reason I want to build this car is a bit of sentimental value it was my dads and he wanted to build it before he passed. So certainly it would be easier to buy someone else's car but I would probably just keep this car and it will stay in my garage.
Posted by: Steve May 31 2016, 08:54 PM
I would also look at the cost of a Subaru conversion or LS v8 crate engine.
The days of a cheap six conversion is over unless you find a smoking deal on a used six motor. They are out there, but most need work.
Posted by: mepstein May 31 2016, 09:06 PM
Yeah it's a difficult choice but big money either it seems as though a built 2.3 IV will run about 9k which is not far off the base price of a 6. What is the name of the shop or the contact for Eric?
To be honest the real reason I want to build this car is a bit of sentimental value it was my dads and he wanted to build it before he passed. So certainly it would be easier to buy someone else's car but I would probably just keep this car and it will stay in my garage.
So if your going to keep the car then what you pay isn't too important. Do what is going to make you happy.
If you mean Eric Shea - PMBperformance.com, a very good choice.
Posted by: hyespeed May 31 2016, 09:15 PM
Thanks I'll contact them.
Posted by: Larmo63 May 31 2016, 09:56 PM
I always wanted a 914-6. My /4 spun a bearing right before the Route 66 event in April of this year, so I had to make a decision; rebuild the four, or build a 2.0 /6 I got about a year ago for next to nothing? I decided to go for it and build the six to as high a standard as possible. I've always loved the sound of the early (mine is a '69) engines. While not the MOST powerful of them, they do have advantages. The 2.0 is quite a bit lighter weight and has no real immediate need for a front oil cooler. A 901 transmission easily works with it too. My costs in a total build of the motor, doing the engine mount, headers, oil tank and lines, etc., are around $16K. There will be a few more tricks to it also. I'm estimating 180+ HP. (don't laugh)
I think that answers your question, but you have to find your own engine deal like I did.
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 12:37 PM
I emailed pmb, I'll wait and see what they have to say. As far as body work or paint that's somewhat of the field I am currently in and have some friends who do well with fabrication so I would try and do most of that. Porsches are some what foreign to me so trying to do a six build for track/street use is a little intimidating.
Posted by: Rav914 Jun 1 2016, 01:20 PM
Money is always an issue, but, if it weren't this would be ideal:
The Polo engine. Just thought I'd add a completely needless post 
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Posted by: JmuRiz Jun 1 2016, 01:29 PM
Polo = good for a 356 or 912
= overkill for not much benefit in a 914
In a 914, just go with your 911 engine of choice, as the engine bay and location are non issues on our cars.
I am going with a /6 just because I got a good deal on a 2.7...time will tell if it was the right move. Not that I plan on ever selling it.
Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 1 2016, 01:40 PM
Mark at Original Customs is pretty busy right now, but he would come and get your car if it is a full conversion. He has a trailer and travel is not a problem.
Posted by: RobW Jun 1 2016, 02:19 PM
Mark at Original Customs is pretty busy right now, but he would come and get your car if it is a full conversion. He has a trailer and travel is not a problem.
Does he make house calls?
Posted by: porschetub Jun 1 2016, 03:16 PM
Yeah that seems to be the consensus but at those prices might as well buy a 911. I like my 914 it just needs to be cleaned up and motor running so I figured a 2.7 or 3.0 swap to get it moving. But 30-40k get a 2.7 pre smog.
Yea but the 914 will be complete and running with little to nothing to do ,just drive and enjoy......good luck finding a 911 like that
.Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 1 2016, 04:31 PM
Yeah that seems to be the consensus but at those prices might as well buy a 911. I like my 914 it just needs to be cleaned up and motor running so I figured a 2.7 or 3.0 swap to get it moving. But 30-40k get a 2.7 pre smog.
But 914-6?
These cars are freaking amazing! And the mid engine platform is so much more forgiving and easier to drive over the 911. Seems like the thing to do is a honda or subaru v-6 these days.
If you want a creature comfort and a panty dropper then 911 could be better. Although my 914 is more comfortable than my GTI...
Justin
Posted by: porschetub Jun 1 2016, 04:57 PM
Yeah that seems to be the consensus but at those prices might as well buy a 911. I like my 914 it just needs to be cleaned up and motor running so I figured a 2.7 or 3.0 swap to get it moving. But 30-40k get a 2.7 pre smog.
But 914-6?
These cars are freaking amazing! And the mid engine platform is so much more forgiving and easier to drive over the 911. Seems like the thing to do is a honda or subaru v-6 these days.
If you want a creature comfort and a panty dropper then 911 could be better. Although my 914 is more comfortable than my GTI...
Justin
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 05:27 PM
If I went other than air-cooled (the sound is amazing) I think a ecoboost motor out of the focus st would be amazing but in all seriousness if the six swap is doable than thats what I want to do. I have been wanting to get into track days like willow springs or laguna seca, so I figure this would be great to build into that direction but I want to be able to also drive it to the track.
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 06:25 PM
Mark from original customs in Mi? He will come out to CA to pick up a car for a build?
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 06:30 PM
http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/mysak86/media/IMG_1740_zpsb4wyngti.jpg.html
this car has been sitting in a garage for about 20yrs
Posted by: mepstein Jun 1 2016, 06:35 PM
http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/mysak86/media/IMG_1740_zpsb4wyngti.jpg.html
this car has been sitting in a garage for about 20yrs
Pic of the car?
Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jun 1 2016, 06:45 PM
Here is a 3.0L motor for sale on the Bird!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/887431-sale-1980-3-0-us.html
Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 1 2016, 06:52 PM
Mark from original customs in Mi? He will come out to CA to pick up a car for a build?
Call him. Booked up for a while but...
Posted by: JmuRiz Jun 1 2016, 06:55 PM
http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/mysak86/media/IMG_1740_zpsb4wyngti.jpg.html
this car has been sitting in a garage for about 20yrs
Well that's a horse of a different color!
Don't convert it, an under 8k mile car
Put a McMark 2056 in it and enjoy the extra umph.
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Posted by: mepstein Jun 1 2016, 06:56 PM
Here is a 3.0L motor for sale on the Bird!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/887431-sale-1980-3-0-us.html
I know bruce/ flat6pac personally. He's a great engine builder and a great guy. His engines are very well priced.
Posted by: carr914 Jun 1 2016, 07:17 PM
Here is a 3.0L motor for sale on the Bird!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/887431-sale-1980-3-0-us.html
8 Months with No Buyer seems weird to me.
I just bought a 3.2 running long block for $5k with a few extras. I just sold a 2.8 Complete Race Engine to Europe for over $35k
Posted by: echocanyons Jun 1 2016, 07:18 PM
There is a pro on town who has done at least a couple of Subaru conversions on 914s.
I think that he may occasionally visit this board as well, his name is Brody, I think this: http://www.914sgonewild.com is his web site.
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 08:30 PM
Excuse the mess I had a house flood a few months back and still have not straightened out the garage
http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/mysak86/media/20141230_153902_zpsrtckipiw.jpeg.html
http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/mysak86/media/20141230_153853_zpsz1bj9o8k.jpeg.html
http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/mysak86/media/20141230_153857_zps9kdiocni.jpeg.html
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 08:35 PM
There is an older body kit still in the box, I don't plan on using it and I'm not sure he was either. I have spare parts as well including doors, quarter panels, seats, etc.
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Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 08:36 PM
Few wheels as well.
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Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 08:49 PM
I also have a Audi 5000 transaxle, I do not know the application of this transmission are they used for 914?
Posted by: Mueller Jun 1 2016, 09:29 PM
If we set up a gofundme account can we raise some money to have that body kit permanently destroyed? Or sell it to a Fiero guy
Audi box for possible Chevy conversion by the previous owner..or he wanted to use an older Audi motor?
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 1 2016, 09:39 PM
HA! You start a gofundme and ill set it on fire and record it!
thanks
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 14 2016, 10:22 PM
What's the general consensus on a V8 swap? Apparently there is a guy in SoCal who can complete a small block ford 302 swap for 10k roughly half the price of a six swap and I'm a big fan of the ford 302. What other shops do V8 swaps I'd like to speak to them as well.
Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 14 2016, 10:36 PM
Renegade - Las Vegas...
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 14 2016, 10:46 PM
They only do Chevrolet?
Posted by: veekry9 Jun 14 2016, 10:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uod6avfs4AM
A half-price six sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_geZF6_nKI
A 914 that sounds American.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cUDRkztj58
And of course,the modern Wankel.
There are many other options,although the aircooled are limited to very few types.
Like selecting ice cream or paint colors,what do you like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ea_y8zpzqU
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 15 2016, 07:11 AM
The only renegade stuff I see is Chevrolet, if I were to cut up a car for cooling I'd probably go V8. Mid engine V8 is pretty freakin awesome, any other shops specialize in V8 swaps?
Posted by: Mueller Jun 15 2016, 08:10 AM
The only renegade stuff I see is Chevrolet, if I were to cut up a car for cooling I'd probably go V8. Mid engine V8 is pretty freakin awesome, any other shops specialize in V8 swaps?
You would have to find a shop that builds all kind of stuff, there is no shop that pays the bills doing Ford conversions. Kennedy Engineering will have the adapter plate and flywheel.
Don't discount some of the more modern V6 engines, shorter, lighter and still enough power to get you in a lot of trouble.
Posted by: Mueller Jun 15 2016, 08:11 AM
They only do Chevrolet?
Yes, I'm sure if you offered obscene amounts of money they might change their mind.
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 15 2016, 09:16 AM
I'm not going to pay an obscene amount in that case I'll go 3.2 or 3.6 I'm talking about a ford 302 for half the price. That means the rest goes towards brakes/suspension/wife wheel/fenders
Posted by: 87m491 Jun 15 2016, 09:42 AM
cheaper to buy?
http://r.ebay.com/hmleJA
I want to have a 6 swap done and wanted to know what kind of pricing or is there someone in California to call and get an idea of what it will take?
Posted by: 2mAn Jun 15 2016, 09:51 AM
I also have a Audi 5000 transaxle, I do not know the application of this transmission are they used for 914?
I might be interested in taking that off your hands! I need an older audi transmission for my watercooled 1626 VW motor
If this car was your dads and its all original, I would just drive it for now and and build another motor on the side so you can keep the original motor on the side, or if the motor is already tired have it built up. I might get flamed for this suggestion, but you are literally in CB Performances' backyard....
Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 15 2016, 10:01 AM
All I can say is I believe my car has around 280hp and 260 ftlbs of torq. I run on the street with 225 nt-01 tire's. It feels matched perfectly, I can get on it in the turns, it hooks and gets. In an autocross it's hard to get traction though, needs something stickier. I feel like this is a great combo overall.
Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 15 2016, 10:06 AM
I'm not going to pay an obscene amount in that case I'll go 3.2 or 3.6 I'm talking about a ford 302 for half the price. That means the rest goes towards brakes/suspension/wife wheel/fenders
Do you have a preference on running a v8, v-6 or flat six? I would say to go with what ever motor you are most excited about and fits your budget. The subaru flat six seems to be a great balance for these cars. A v-8 is cool and I'm a v8 guy, but just doesn't seem right for a 914 to me. Although I wouldn't mind having one some day, to get a get a better feel for it.
Posted by: Scott S Jun 15 2016, 10:33 AM
Just a word of warning/my sordid tale...
I bought my 914 in 1992. I loved that car. I bit the bullet and did a conversion back in 2011-12. I never finished it completely - all it needed was the shift linkage addressed. But at that point, I couldn't even stand to look at the car anymore and sold it.
Not to be a wet sock, but my conversion basically tanked a 20 year love affair. If I had left it alone, it would still be in my garage.
Just an FYI...
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Posted by: JmuRiz Jun 15 2016, 10:56 AM
I hear you Scott...mine was just fine till I decided to convert....8+ years later, I still haven't put it together even though I have 90% of the parts already.
If I'd have to do it over, I would have kept it a /4...oh well, no turning back now, it'll probably be 2 more years till I'm done, so it better be worth it.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jun 15 2016, 11:02 AM
I hear you Scott...mine was just fine till I decided to convert....8+ years later, I still haven't put it together even though I have 90% of the parts already.
If I'd have to do it over, I would have kept it a /4...oh well, no turning back now, it'll probably be 2 more years till I'm done, so it better be worth it.
Same here 8 years
I'm 95% done...just need to get it in gear and finish that last 5%...
But I did work on it all last weekend so there's hope yet!
Posted by: mb911 Jun 15 2016, 11:14 AM
I think the big thing is what point you are in life. For me I have 10 Porsches mostly 911s a couple of 60s camaros and of all the cars I had my 914-6 was the most fun. I started with a car that was restorable but not drivable for this go around. I have sandblasted the doors, suspension, collected parts, done some welding, and probably have 90% of the parts to complete the car. The reality is that it won't be done for years.. I am ok with that. If you intend to drive it in a week or month once you take it apart for the conversion you will probably will be disappointed. Me I have so many different hobbys it I am ok in fact love the idea of the project lasting a while.. My time frame is different though from most..
Posted by: mepstein Jun 15 2016, 11:23 AM
So far I have about 30 hours into the conversion. I need another 8-10 hour chunk of time and I'm done. Hopefully next week.
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 15 2016, 11:44 AM
I'm personally Porsche and Ford biased this is my only Porsche I would like a 911 in the near future but I am finishing a 53 ford coupe with a 427 that will be fun. Engine for the 914 I've been pretty set on a 3.2 but when I spoke to someone and he told he could do the 302 swap for literally half the price I figure hell for the 20k for just a 6 swap I could almost complete the car with that being said I'm a big fan of mid engine v8 cars but I've never been in or drove a 914/8 and I'm leaning more towards the 6 but I thought a 302 powered 914 would be gt40 like. I'd like to know about Justin's 914 with 280hp that sounds like an interesting setup to me! Sorry to hear that it look like a sweet setup.
Posted by: Mueller Jun 15 2016, 03:03 PM
I'm personally Porsche and Ford biased this is my only Porsche I would like a 911 in the near future but I am finishing a 53 ford coupe with a 427 that will be fun. Engine for the 914 I've been pretty set on a 3.2 but when I spoke to someone and he told he could do the 302 swap for literally half the price I figure hell for the 20k for just a 6 swap I could almost complete the car with that being said I'm a big fan of mid engine v8 cars but I've never been in or drove a 914/8 and I'm leaning more towards the 6 but I thought a 302 powered 914 would be gt40 like. I'd like to know about Justin's 914 with 280hp that sounds like an interesting setup to me! Sorry to hear that it look like a sweet setup.
The 302 might be 1/2 the cost to convert, however it might be worth 1/4 what a nice proper 3.2 conversion would go for when time to sell.
Being in California you aren't too far from all kinds of conversions, I'm sure you can find someone with mid sized /6 (like a 3.0 or 3.2) and a small block Chevy (I know, you said Ford fan, you won't know the difference while sitting in the drivers or passenger seat.
Both are a blast, I've driven a narrow bodied /6 with a 3.0 translplant a few times and it was a great combo. I've also driven a few SBC conversions and those too are fun to drive. If it was my money I'd opt for SBC, if was someone elses money I'd go for Porsche /6.
Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 15 2016, 03:08 PM
I'm personally Porsche and Ford biased this is my only Porsche I would like a 911 in the near future but I am finishing a 53 ford coupe with a 427 that will be fun. Engine for the 914 I've been pretty set on a 3.2 but when I spoke to someone and he told he could do the 302 swap for literally half the price I figure hell for the 20k for just a 6 swap I could almost complete the car with that being said I'm a big fan of mid engine v8 cars but I've never been in or drove a 914/8 and I'm leaning more towards the 6 but I thought a 302 powered 914 would be gt40 like. I'd like to know about Justin's 914 with 280hp that sounds like an interesting setup to me! Sorry to hear that it look like a sweet setup.
I don't have a build thread on mine, but this is almost the identical engine that I built (the 3.2), 253hp to the wheels- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/794830-3-0-3-2ss-pics-dyno-sheets-before-after.html
If you are thinking of going to a 911 you might just want to consider building a clean 2.0 car and save your money for the 911? Stock 914's are worth quite a bit of money these days.
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 15 2016, 09:31 PM
Thanks for the link! That's inspiring, I'm not sure I really like the 914 platform and would to build that first.
Posted by: hyespeed Jun 22 2016, 05:49 PM
Figured I would take some pictures of bottom they're not very good but I noticed the door won't close all the way, I thought it was just ajar but it won't close and leaves a gap
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Posted by: hyespeed Jun 22 2016, 05:50 PM
And bottom
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Posted by: hyespeed Jun 22 2016, 05:50 PM
Bottom
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Posted by: hyespeed Jun 22 2016, 05:51 PM
Bottom
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