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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Question: Firewall repair
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 2 2016, 06:53 AM
The car just came back from the bodyshop to replace the floor underneath the inner firewall and the front trunk floor. The stuff from Restoration Design is great.
But behind the passenger seat there's still a gap between the inner firewall and the floor. Is it necessary to weld this for the stiffness of the car or can I just use some epoxy to close the gap?
Posted by: barefoot Jul 2 2016, 06:58 AM
The car just came back from the bodyshop to replace the floor underneath the inner firewall and the front trunk floor. The stuff from Restoration Design is great.
But behind the passenger seat there's still a gap between the inner firewall and the floor. Is it necessary to weld this for the stiffness of the car or can I just use some epoxy to close the gap?
By all means, weld repair and even add a panel to double this area as it's part of the stiffness stricture.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 2 2016, 07:41 AM
The car just came back from the bodyshop to replace the floor underneath the inner firewall and the front trunk floor. The stuff from Restoration Design is great.
But behind the passenger seat there's still a gap between the inner firewall and the floor. Is it necessary to weld this for the stiffness of the car or can I just use some epoxy to close the gap?
By all means, weld repair and even add a panel to double this area as it's part of the stiffness stricture.
Not good news, but
I already thought so.
Posted by: cary Jul 2 2016, 08:19 AM
Did you remove the seam sealer?
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 2 2016, 08:34 AM
Did you remove the seam sealer?
Partially. Why do you ask? I think the floor is OK, it's the firewall that rusted away.
Posted by: cuddyk Jul 2 2016, 08:42 AM
Rust likes to hide under the seam sealer.
Posted by: SirAndy Jul 2 2016, 08:48 AM
But behind the passenger seat there's still a gap between the inner firewall and the floor. Is it necessary to weld this for the stiffness of the car or can I just use some epoxy to close the gap?
What kind of shop would replace the floor but not fix that part?
Either way, that *is* structural and needs to be fixed. And no, epoxy or bondo is not a fix.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 2 2016, 09:00 AM
But behind the passenger seat there's still a gap between the inner firewall and the floor. Is it necessary to weld this for the stiffness of the car or can I just use some epoxy to close the gap?
What kind of shop would replace the floor but not fix that part?
Either way, that *is* structural and needs to be fixed. And no, epoxy or bondo is not a fix.
I simply don't understand why they didn't fix that.There's gonna be a very furious phone call monday morning.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jul 2 2016, 09:08 AM
With that kind of damage I would not only repair it proper, but I'd also add an inner long stiffener kit.
Posted by: cary Jul 2 2016, 09:14 AM
The car just came back from the bodyshop to replace the floor underneath the inner firewall and the front trunk floor.
The picture your showing us is the inner firewall ............ but looks like old floor. Show us where your at now. Maybe more pictures showing both sides.
Posted by: Mueller Jul 2 2016, 12:14 PM
I'd fix it properly...fumes and possibly flames getting into the cabin from that location would have me a little nervous.
Posted by: Rand Jul 2 2016, 12:21 PM
If you can see air between the ragged edges of rusty decay, after you got it back from a "body shop"...
Makes me sad what some "shops" put out.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 2 2016, 12:52 PM
I'm in the middle of a bbq party( time difference), so I will get back to you guys later this day.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 2 2016, 04:07 PM
The car just came back from the bodyshop to replace the floor underneath the inner firewall and the front trunk floor.
The picture your showing us is the inner firewall ............ but looks like old floor. Show us where your at now. Maybe more pictures showing both sides.
It's the floor just behind the inner firewall they replaced.The other side is OK. The floor behind the seats is OK.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 2 2016, 04:18 PM
If you can see air between the ragged edges of rusty decay, after you got it back from a "body shop"...
Makes me sad what some "shops" put out.
Posted by: Rand Jul 2 2016, 04:28 PM
If you can see air between the ragged edges of rusty decay, after you got it back from a "body shop"...
Makes me sad what some "shops" put out.
This is the air I see. And that's one horrible ass faultline.
Posted by: cary Jul 2 2016, 05:33 PM
The portion behind the inner firewall is the portion enclosed between the two firewalls.
The portion in the red circle. Did they take pictures?
The pictures your showing us is in the yellow circle. If they can assure you the flange in the yellow circle isn't consumed by the rust worm. Then it's a different story.
Did they do any kind of rust treatment/neutralization ?
Posted by: barefoot Jul 2 2016, 07:26 PM
The portion behind the inner firewall is the portion enclosed between the two firewalls.
The portion in the red circle. Did they take pictures?
The pictures your showing us is in the yellow circle. If they can assure you the flange in the yellow circle isn't consumed by the rust worm. Then it's a different story.
Is there a larger cross section view of this area on hand, I'd like to understand this area more completely
Thanks
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 3 2016, 05:30 AM
If you can see air between the ragged edges of rusty decay, after you got it back from a "body shop"...
Makes me sad what some "shops" put out.
This is the air I see. And that's one horrible ass faultline.
What you see is the floor pan painted grey. There's no light coming through, not from the engine compartment and not from underneath the car.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 3 2016, 05:39 AM
The portion behind the inner firewall is the portion enclosed between the two firewalls.
The portion in the red circle. Did they take pictures?
The pictures your showing us is in the yellow circle. If they can assure you the flange in the yellow circle isn't consumed by the rust worm. Then it's a different story.
Did they do any kind of rust treatment/neutralization ?
I tried to get in with a screwdriver. I can only get in 1inch approximately.Then it feels really sound.
Posted by: ejm Jul 3 2016, 07:04 AM
Poorly done repair with a patch lap welded over the existing rusty metal, a cosmetic fix at best. What does this look like underneath?
Posted by: mb911 Jul 3 2016, 09:11 AM
Just poorly fixed. Should have at least bent up a new flanged edge and welded that in.. Time consuming but the correct fix.. I would also add the inner long kit.. I am in the very same step right now on my project.
Posted by: 914fahrer Jul 3 2016, 09:58 AM
Here is a picture from this area without the rear floors.
Posted by: cary Jul 3 2016, 10:00 AM
Sorry to say Robin, but the bottom edge of the inner firewall has been consumed by the rust worm.
Here's a shot of Mark's inner firewall with the same affliction. I thought I had more pictures from my restoration but that seems to be the one day I didn't shoot 20 pictures.
Here's a picture from Jeff Hail with the new inner firewall in place before welding.
You can see the flange portion that is entirely missing on both yours and Mark's car.
Posted by: cary Jul 3 2016, 10:07 AM
Here is a picture from this area without the rear floors.
That's the shot I was looking for ............... Perfect.
Cary drawing correction. I had the inner firewall flange backwards.
Posted by: Rand Jul 3 2016, 12:15 PM
I didn't say light, I said air... The space where metal is supposed to be.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 3 2016, 12:17 PM
Here is a picture from this area without the rear floors.
That's the shot I was looking for ............... Perfect.
Cary drawing correction. I had the inner firewall flange backwards.
So the conclusion is : 1 -I will need a new lower right inner firewall from Restoration Design.
or 2 - I have to make a bracket that fits the lower firewall and the floor
or 3 - I can reinforce the whole thing by putting in a transversal long.
The second conclusion is : I will definitely have to take a welding course.
As Gary Oldman used to say in The Fifth Element : I you want something done , do it yourself!
The question is : can I drive it in the mean time , because the car has been sitting in my garage for 6 months now and I only drove it to the DVA and back.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 3 2016, 12:19 PM
I didn't say light, I said air... The space where metal is supposed to be.
Sorry! (But there's no connection to the engine compartment)
Posted by: mepstein Jul 3 2016, 12:58 PM
Hopefully you can find a different body shop or find a way to communicate better with the one who did the "work". They should have at least gone over what they were going to do and not do and discussed what the results would be before the job was done.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 3 2016, 01:11 PM
Hopefully you can find a different body shop or find a way to communicate better with the one who did the "work". They should have at least gone over what they were going to do and not do and discussed what the results would be before the job was done.
I can assure you there will be a lot of communication tomorrow morning!
Posted by: Rand Jul 3 2016, 01:20 PM
(But there's no connection to the engine compartment)
That's where I'd beg to differ. You can see halfway to your engine compartment through the holes left behind from the rot that needs to be fixed. The double-wall box is strong when it's solid. Remove half of it and it's exponentially weaker.
Posted by: dlee6204 Jul 4 2016, 09:32 AM
Poorly done repair with a patch lap welded over the existing rusty metal, a cosmetic fix at best. What does this look like underneath?
Exactly. Looks like they didn't bother cutting out any of the rust, just welded new floor over the bad. A very poor repair. The whole thing needs to be redone.
Posted by: dlee6204 Jul 4 2016, 09:35 AM
Here is a picture from this area without the rear floors.
That's the shot I was looking for ............... Perfect.
Cary drawing correction. I had the inner firewall flange backwards.
So the conclusion is : 1 -I will need a new lower right inner firewall from Restoration Design.
or 2 - I have to make a bracket that fits the lower firewall and the floor
or 3 - I can reinforce the whole thing by putting in a transversal long.
The second conclusion is : I will definitely have to take a welding course.
As Gary Oldman used to say in The Fifth Element : I you want something done , do it yourself!
The question is : can I drive it in the mean time , because the car has been sitting in my garage for 6 months now and I only drove it to the DVA and back.
You should be fine driving it but plan on doing a proper repair otherwise your rust will get worse.
Posted by: SirAndy Jul 5 2016, 01:16 AM
They didn't even cut out the rust, just welded a patch panel over the rusted floor areas.
That needs to come out and be done right.
Posted by: porschetub Jul 5 2016, 02:16 AM
Did they give a fixed price to fit the panel ?......this is part of the job that has been left out cause maybe the other work went past the time quoted (mostly happens),they really should have contacted you and said heh we have a little extra to do,the balls in your court and you have the final say then ,in my country ALL extra work has to be arranged between client and company otherwise the client can legally not make payment for said "extra's".
IMO best not to ring them and "serve" them it just makes the situation worse and both parties get ticked off,good luck keep as updated 
Posted by: mbseto Jul 5 2016, 09:47 AM
IMO best not to ring them and "serve" them it just makes the situation worse and both parties get ticked off,good luck keep as updated
Yep- be the bigger man here- they will either do the right thing or you will know not to go back.
Posted by: slotty008 Jul 6 2016, 03:22 PM
I already rang them. I spoke to the owner ( who is a client of mine) He didn't control the car after it was finished so I can bring the car back but the man who did the repair is already on holiday and since I'm still waiting for my license plates , I can not bring the car, so I have to wait. The garage is closing for the summer holidays tomorrow anyway so we will continue the story by the end of the month. I'm pretty sure they will solve the problem.
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