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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Spare 1.7L looking to make something fun
Posted by: ammason Apr 13 2005, 11:39 AM
Hey all,
After buying the 73. 2.0L from CAMP I pulled a crunched 72 out of someone's driveway for parts (the 73 needs a clutch), The car had been sitting after an accident for 2 years and was pretty much totalled after crunching the passenger-rear side against something large and white. The car was totalled, but the engine still seems intact (the transmission broke a mount clean off).
I've been pulling other parts off the car and will have them available pretty cheap to those who want them, but since I've got the engine I was thinking about building a fun motor out of it.
Any suggestions on what to build? Cost/performace/reliability all factors as it will be my daily driver... I'd probably be down to spend around $1k...
Cheers!
Posted by: Andy Apr 13 2005, 11:57 AM
You could make a huge-ass chainsaw! 
Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 13 2005, 12:00 PM
you can't do much for 1k... just to get the heads done will cost you $500+, if you want to bump it to 96mm pistons, that's another $600, and will mean more head work($$)(1.7 heads need to be opened up to accept the 96mm P&Cs, I'm assuming it's a 1.7 since it's a 72) and you haven't replaced the bearings, seals, etc...
check out www.aircooled.net for prices on some rebuild parts...
cheapest you can do, if everything is GREAT in the engine... is get the headwork, keep the engine a 1.7, with new rings replace the rear seal, and PRAY.. that's about it for 1k...
now, if you aren't in a hurry, spend some on the heads now... 750 ish, have the ports opened and make them accept the 96mm P&Cs... later, get a 2.0 Crank that's used and good, have it machined balanced and checked out for tolerances... slowly get the parts to make the engine you want...
Posted by: ammason Apr 13 2005, 12:09 PM
Hmmm... well maybe $1k was wishful thinking. Let's toss that number out...
If I wanted to build a mild performance engine, something bigger than a 2.0L, what are a couple of good options, and how much can I realistically expect to spend?
Posted by: anthony Apr 13 2005, 12:12 PM
There's not a lot you can do with a 1.7. You could make it in to a 1911cc motor with 96mm pistons. The heads would have to be opened up for 96mm cylinders though. If you had a set of 2L or 1.8L heads then they don' t need to be opened up.
Of course, if you can find a 2L crank and rods (usually about $200 used) you could bump it even further to 2056. You could add a hot cam but that will require carbs or a after market fuel injection.
In the end you can spend just as much building up a 1.7 as you can a 2L engine.
Posted by: anthony Apr 13 2005, 12:19 PM
You guys slipped ahead of me.
Also, check Jake's engine kits:
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/home.php?cat=308
Posted by: ammason Apr 13 2005, 12:28 PM
Aside from the pistons and cylinders, how different are the 1.7s and 2.0s? I'd thought the short block was basically the same and that you could make a 2.0L out of a 1.7L just swapping a few parts...
I have webber 40IDFs off the running 2.0L in the car now that I could use with a hotter cam...
I guess the question is if the 1.7 is really even worth building up in the first place...
Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 13 2005, 12:32 PM
yep, if you really want to buid a type 4 engine... get one of Jake's Kits...
about 3-4k(starting) but you get everything you need, I'll you have to do is put it together like he shows how to do in his video... best thing you can do with an engine if you have never rebuilt a type 4 before, or even if you have....
if you try and save money and pull together parts yourself, get your own headwork done, and everything... you will spend 3x as much time and very close to the same amount of money... get a kit!
best you can do on a budget of about 2k, is the 1911, or if you get lucky and find a good 2l crank cheap enough, you can go to a 2056... but the engine you put together won't last 1/2 as long as a Jake kit, and won't put out the HP...
I'd be willing to bet his 1911 (smallest) KIT puts out more hp than I could get out of a 2056 if I built it myself... and if you want bigger than 2056, his kit is the *ONLY* way I'd recommend it... anything like a 2270+ requires much more experience than I wil ever have...
Posted by: bondo Apr 13 2005, 12:36 PM
I have a set of bus 2 liter heads set up for 94 mm cylinders. Won't breathe as well as 2.0 914 heads, but they're more durable. One has a missing fin in a relatively minor spot, but both have good spark plug holes and exhaust studs. The previous owner said they were rebuilt, not sure how many miles ago though, so they should probably at least be checked out. I'll let them go cheap, and if you're going to the WCC I can even bring them to save shipping.
(End shameless plug)
Posted by: bondo Apr 13 2005, 12:37 PM
| QUOTE (ammason @ Apr 13 2005, 11:28 AM) |
| Aside from the pistons and cylinders, how different are the 1.7s and 2.0s? I'd thought the short block was basically the same and that you could make a 2.0L out of a 1.7L just swapping a few parts... |
The case is the same, that's about it. Different crank, rods, pistons, cylinders and heads.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 13 2005, 12:39 PM
| QUOTE (ammason @ Apr 13 2005, 01:28 PM) |
| Aside from the pistons and cylinders, how different are the 1.7s and 2.0s? I'd thought the short block was basically the same and that you could make a 2.0L out of a 1.7L just swapping a few parts... I have webber 40IDFs off the running 2.0L in the car now that I could use with a hotter cam... I guess the question is if the 1.7 is really even worth building up in the first place... |
the only real difference is the heads and the crank... you will be changing the cam regardless to run carbs right...
the heads on the 1.7 aren't made to hold the 96mm pistons, so they need to be opened up that way... they also don't FLOW as well, so you need to have them ported for anything, just about...
the crank on the 2.0 is 71mm stroke instead of 66mm... the rods are also a different length, and have a different journal... http://tunacan.net/t4/tech/conrods.htm
but the rods will be changed too... the main differences are the heads and the crank... you can use the 1.7 heads, they will just need more work, or find some good 2.0 heads and have them refreshed(maybe a little cheaper, but not by much)
Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 13 2005, 12:41 PM
| QUOTE (bondo @ Apr 13 2005, 01:36 PM) |
| I have a set of bus 2 liter heads set up for 94 mm cylinders. Won't breathe as well as 2.0 914 heads, but they're more durable. One has a missing fin in a relatively minor spot, but both have good spark plug holes and exhaust studs. The previous owner said they were rebuilt, not sure how many miles ago though, so they should probably at least be checked out. I'll let them go cheap, and if you're going to the WCC I can even bring them to save shipping. (End shameless plug) |
I'd jump on this offer if I were in your place...
1.8 or 2.0 bus heads will work better than your 1.7 heads and require less work.
Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 13 2005, 01:11 PM
Funny that this one came up here...
Len and I are working on a super efficient engine based from a 1700 arrangement.
Read all about it here
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=86957
Yes, the goal is 50 MPG!
Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 13 2005, 01:15 PM
| QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Apr 13 2005, 02:11 PM) |
| Yes, the goal is 50 MPG! |
diesel?
Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 13 2005, 01:30 PM
Nope, on 89 octane gas....
Read the thread!
Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 13 2005, 02:07 PM
| QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Apr 13 2005, 02:30 PM) |
| Nope, on 89 octane gas.... Read the thread! |
I did! sounds awesome!
the little wink means I was kidding...
Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 13 2005, 02:20 PM
I know.....
BTW- Middle finger isn't up today...LOL
Posted by: jkeyzer Apr 13 2005, 02:22 PM
turbo turbo turbo turbo
TURBO!
Posted by: airsix Apr 13 2005, 04:12 PM
| QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Apr 13 2005, 12:22 PM) |
| turbo turbo turbo turbo TURBO! |
I agree. All 1.7's should be turbo-ed and then rodded to death and replaced with something big. Mine is turbo-ed and being rodded. Still waiting for it's death.
-Ben M.
Posted by: Root_Werks Apr 13 2005, 04:30 PM
| QUOTE (airsix @ Apr 13 2005, 02:12 PM) | ||
I agree. All 1.7's should be turbo-ed and then rodded to death and replaced with something big. Mine is turbo-ed and being rodded. Still waiting for it's death. -Ben M. |
Posted by: nebreitling Apr 13 2005, 04:34 PM
i like the turbo idea A LOT for a 1.7....
budget min 3k for a good 2liter or so...
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