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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ SOT: New 3.6 Cases
Posted by: McMark Aug 13 2017, 09:00 AM
Seems like it might actually happen...
https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/1003184-i-am-making-reproduction-porsche-engine-cases.html
Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 13 2017, 09:21 AM
Wow, huge undertaking.
Posted by: mepstein Aug 13 2017, 09:21 AM
He plans to do 2.0 & 2.7's in aluminum next. It's great to have options.
Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 13 2017, 10:31 AM
He is on our board and has a 914 conversion with a 2.7 /6.
Posted by: Mueller Aug 13 2017, 10:33 AM
wow, that is crazy and awesome to see.
Still out of my price range however I enjoy seeing other people spend their money and build sweet rides!
Posted by: My 914 Aug 13 2017, 12:35 PM
I just read the details on the Rennlist forum. A very impressive undertaking and I admire your persistence and dedication to this project. You will give builders more options for conversions!
Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 13 2017, 12:50 PM
It will now be possible to build a complete 911 engine with all American parts.
Posted by: Mueller Aug 13 2017, 02:27 PM
It will now be possible to build a complete 911 engine with all American parts.
hmmm? Still legal for PCA events?
Posted by: McMark Aug 13 2017, 02:32 PM
It will now be possible to build a complete 911 engine with all American parts.
hmmm? Still legal for PCA events?
LOL, so true....
Posted by: gereed75 Aug 13 2017, 07:23 PM
Cast and HIP'ed is a very high end methodology and will create a metallurgy superior to casting only.
These cases will add to the sustainability and advancement of the aircooled 911 motor. Very nice!!
Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 13 2017, 11:08 PM
Adam told me he has had meetings with Singer to supply them with cases for their backlog of orders....
Pretty cool.
Posted by: falcor75 Aug 14 2017, 01:07 AM
Wow! I'll likely never be able to afford one but its supercool that someone uses the technology available today do recreate these engine cases!
Posted by: Mueller Aug 14 2017, 09:53 AM
Wow! I'll likely never be able to afford one but its supercool that someone uses the technology available today do recreate these engine cases!
Me too, but I'd gladly pay for shipping for a case that failed QC to put on display in my garage
Posted by: Catorse Aug 14 2017, 11:06 AM
Thanks very much you guys, I have been working on it for a while. Can you believe this project was originally spurred by my 914?
A couple years ago I was building my 914-6 GT clone, and I was searching everywhere for a 3.6 and couldn't find one. Either I was too late, or the guy wanted 10K for a trashed case or something.
So I decided to build my own.
I can't think of another Porsche that is a frequently engine swapped as the 914 is. To me, it really is all about choices.
So there you have it. Thanks for the interest and kind words!
Posted by: timothy_nd28 Aug 14 2017, 11:59 AM
Extremely impressive, well done! I wonder if there would be any repercussions if Porsche found out about this?
Posted by: jd74914 Aug 14 2017, 12:21 PM
Very cool!
At that level, sand casting is really as much art and experience as science. HIP post processing is very nice as well.
Extremely impressive, well done! I wonder if there would be any repercussions is Porsche found out about this?
Not quite the same because Porsche is known for being pretty vigilant, but I know a guy who reverse engineers current/recent production motorcycle engines including almost all internals built all of the major players using white light scans. They are then translated into Solidworks models for use in parts redesign, etc.. In ~3 years of doing it he hasn't received legal correspondence from any of the manufacturers.
Posted by: billh1963 Aug 14 2017, 12:43 PM
Thanks very much you guys, I have been working on it for a while. Can you believe this project was originally spurred by my 914?
A couple years ago I was building my 914-6 GT clone, and I was searching everywhere for a 3.6 and couldn't find one. Either I was too late, or the guy wanted 10K for a trashed case or something.
So I decided to build my own.
I can't think of another Porsche that is a frequently engine swapped as the 914 is. To me, it really is all about choices.
So there you have it. Thanks for the interest and kind words!
I'm excited about the new cases. I'm in for one if the price level of under $5K holds.
Once you get other case sizes available this could be the very catalyst to help drive down the costs of 911 engine builds. More case availability means more builds. More volume on associated parts will, hopefully, bring down prices somewhat.
Posted by: Mueller Aug 14 2017, 01:59 PM
Very cool!
At that level, sand casting is really as much art and experience as science. HIP post processing is very nice as well.
Extremely impressive, well done! I wonder if there would be any repercussions is Porsche found out about this?
Not quite the same because Porsche is known for being pretty vigilant, but I know a guy who reverse engineers current/recent production motorcycle engines including almost all internals built all of the major players using white light scans. They are then translated into Solidworks models for use in parts redesign, etc.. In ~3 years of doing it he hasn't received legal correspondence from any of the manufacturers.
I used to RE semiconductor equipment parts from AMAT and LAM as well as others, the only time we got a letter was for assemblies that had patents, the individual parts we never had problems with (and a few of the assemblies I came up with ways to circumvent the patents, one they used a special adhesive and I designed the parts to be snapped together and it worked perfect and was cheaper)
The key was our own packaging and not trying to pass the parts off as OEM, they had our part number and are just replacement parts.
Back to the 3.6 blocks, you could scale them down and offer 3D printed versions for guys to put on their desk!
Posted by: Catorse Aug 14 2017, 04:03 PM
Mueller, that is an AWESOME idea. I already spent a small fortune to have the case scanned and a solidworks model made, so I could literally send it somewhere and have them made.
Heck, I want one myself!!!!
Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 14 2017, 04:21 PM
Extremely impressive, well done! I wonder if there would be any repercussions if Porsche found out about this?
Nope, they don't care, out of date.
Besides you can buy billet heads, Nickies, JE's, custom cranks, rods...body kits, suspension, rims, countless items.
Now if you put on it a Porsche part number, Porsche symbols or try to pass it off as an OE part then you will have a problem.
Posted by: mepstein Aug 14 2017, 04:23 PM
Mueller, that is an AWESOME idea. I already spent a small fortune to have the case scanned and a solidworks model made, so I could literally send it somewhere and have them made.
Heck, I want one myself!!!!
You might make more on the models than the real thing.
Posted by: Catorse Aug 14 2017, 05:26 PM
Mueller, that is an AWESOME idea. I already spent a small fortune to have the case scanned and a solidworks model made, so I could literally send it somewhere and have them made.
Heck, I want one myself!!!!
You might make more on the models than the real thing.
I dunno, my phone is positively exploding these days. Everyone who builds porsche engines is all over this thing. I hesitate to quote quantity numbers right now, but as soon as I take orders on these there will be a metric shit ton, approx that is
Posted by: Mueller Aug 14 2017, 05:54 PM
Mueller, that is an AWESOME idea. I already spent a small fortune to have the case scanned and a solidworks model made, so I could literally send it somewhere and have them made.
Heck, I want one myself!!!!
Feel free to send me an STL if want... I have no problem signing an NDA.
Posted by: Catorse Aug 14 2017, 07:00 PM
Mueller, that is an AWESOME idea. I already spent a small fortune to have the case scanned and a solidworks model made, so I could literally send it somewhere and have them made.
Heck, I want one myself!!!!
Feel free to send me an STL if want... I have no problem signing an NDA.
Can't do that just now. I had some big competition on this, and I was the first out of a supposed group of people to make a flat 6 case. That STL is so proprietary with all the mods we made and draft we added that it's like the Colonel's secret recipe. Literally no one besides the machinist and tool maker have it. It's beyond NDA secrecy, more on the order of find you and kill you secrecy LOL
But I will whip one up soon that's dumbed down and we can use to 3d print them. Do you have this capability?
Posted by: Mueller Aug 14 2017, 08:04 PM
Mueller, that is an AWESOME idea. I already spent a small fortune to have the case scanned and a solidworks model made, so I could literally send it somewhere and have them made.
Heck, I want one myself!!!!
Feel free to send me an STL if want... I have no problem signing an NDA.
Can't do that just now. I had some big competition on this, and I was the first out of a supposed group of people to make a flat 6 case. That STL is so proprietary with all the mods we made and draft we added that it's like the Colonel's secret recipe. Literally no one besides the machinist and tool maker have it. It's beyond NDA secrecy, more on the order of find you and kill you secrecy LOL
But I will whip one up soon that's dumbed down and we can use to 3d print them. Do you have this capability?
I totally understand, stripped down is perfect. Can even change some dimensions or make it only the exterior features with no internal parts (like shell)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lkarIRy1jI
While not the best quality parts above, I am getting the quality better with each use. (parts in blue made with PLA) A small model would also be neat to make a small billet version with my CNC mill with a small ballnose endmill.
Posted by: Catorse Aug 14 2017, 09:20 PM
Sweet, i love it. Remind me if I forget.
Posted by: Mueller Nov 27 2017, 04:16 PM
So with 914's about to get popular due to being on Leno's garage, what is the status of these 3.6 blocks? 
Posted by: falcor75 Nov 28 2017, 03:28 AM
Check the rennlist thread in Marks first post, its continously updated.
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 28 2017, 06:58 AM
Check the rennlist thread in Marks first post, its continously updated.
He last said the January date has been pushed back, in a nutshell due to figuring out the complicated machining on the cases.
Posted by: GeorgeRud Nov 28 2017, 08:58 AM
It’s wonderful to see someone doing this (and it does sound like a labor of love). It seems to me that Porsche should have done this themselves many years ago. Aluminum replacement blocks are a great addition to the aircooled Porsche community.
Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 29 2017, 01:46 PM
Man, if I had another lifetime I would want to be Catorse 
Posted by: mepstein Nov 29 2017, 02:02 PM
Man, if I had another lifetime I would want to be Catorse
I’m sure it will pay off for him but I bet it’s a ton of time and money to get there.
Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 29 2017, 02:25 PM
Man, if I had another lifetime I would want to be Catorse
I’m sure it will pay off for him but I bet it’s a ton of time and money to get there.
I see the value in it, like we all do, because we are those people. I wanted to be a machinist....maybe when I retire ( I will likely die on my way home on my last day of work from old age
)
Posted by: ClayPerrine Dec 1 2017, 09:57 AM
He plans to do 2.0 & 2.7's in aluminum next. It's great to have options.
In addition, he should do a 3.6 case, with bearings and spigots that will accomodate the 2.0 - 2.7 cylinders and cranks. Racers can build their hotrod small bore motors with all of the 3.6 refinements.
Posted by: jd74914 Dec 1 2017, 11:18 AM
In addition, he should do a 3.6 case, with bearings and spigots that will accomodate the 2.0 - 2.7 cylinders and cranks. Racers can build their hotrod small bore motors with all of the 3.6 refinements.
I think that would be a very interesting case...I'm curious as to the final price of this case too.
It's not surprised they're behind schedule since they haven't produced a case before. Maybe I'm biased from seeing lots of really complicated aircraft engine parts (esp. cast ones) in both design and manufacturing stages, but case machining seems relatively simple for an experienced shop with good fixture development. All of the really critical points are on 2 planes so the big thing is establishing good datums.
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