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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ What’s the Latest on LED Headlight Conversion?
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Dec 13 2020, 02:55 PM
I’ve spent the past couple of hours searching here and surfing the web on LED headlight replacement/conversion. I see the GE Nighthawk 69821 was used by several folks, but they are expensive and no one seems to have them in stock. I think they’ve been on the market for 5+ years, so assume there are competitors. I read on a Mustang forum that the Truck-Lite 27270C is a good alternative for 7” sealed beams. I looked on Spoke’s website, but he doesn’t offer headlights, so I assume there is a good, readily-available product on the market already, or else he would have something.
So, can anybody give me an update on the latest and greatest in LED headlights? Thanks in advance!
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 13 2020, 03:11 PM
I know 914 Rubber offers them. Just not sure which brand or model they offer. 
Posted by: GregAmy Dec 13 2020, 03:20 PM
There are a thousand LED options for Jeeps, which use the same 7" bulb (it was mandated in the USA until the mid-70s-ish).
I bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077P56CG8. Bolt in, plug in, work great. Looks like they're $80 now.
Posted by: bbrock Dec 13 2020, 03:23 PM
I’ve spent the past couple of hours searching here and surfing the web on LED headlight replacement/conversion. I see the GE Nighthawk 69821 was used by several folks, but they are expensive and no one seems to have them in stock. I think they’ve been on the market for 5+ years, so assume there are competitors. I read on a Mustang forum that the Truck-Lite 27270C is a good alternative for 7” sealed beams. I looked on Spoke’s website, but he doesn’t offer headlights, so I assume there is a good, readily-available product on the market already, or else he would have something.
So, can anybody give me an update on the latest and greatest in LED headlights? Thanks in advance!
I'm pretty sure the GE Nighthawk was just a rebranded Truck-lite. It did a lot of research before choosing lights and from what I found, Truck-lite is the lowest cost among good quality DOT-approved units. There are better lights that are also much more expensive. There are also less expensive lights but you usually get what you pay for. My problem with installing just bulbs in halogen housings is that the combos don't always project light the same as the halogen bulbs the housings were designed for and you can wind up with a unit that throws light inefficiently or worse, blinds oncoming drivers. That doesn't mean LED bulbs in halogen housings can't be good, but it can be tricky knowing the combo you buy will be safe.
Posted by: Chris914n6 Dec 13 2020, 06:06 PM
You want the GE / Trucklite split style for excellent beam patterns.
Everything I've seen under $100 has been a bad chinese copy with a spotty pattern.
The LED bulb in a H4 housing hasn't been good either, too much glare, specially for the 914 in front of you. Specially if it's a DOT H4, which by law puts 20% of the light upward to light overhead signs.
If you just want a decent step up from stock sealed beam the Hella H4 E-code works. Add relays, which you should do anyways, and you can go up to a 80/100w bulb.
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Dec 14 2020, 03:41 PM
Thanks to everyone who replied for all of the great info!
Posted by: DRPHIL914 Dec 16 2020, 07:56 AM
i got my lens/reflector from 914rubber, but the early LED bulbs they had i didnt like , i tested 5-6 different sets and found a set off Amazon that are perfect and they wera bout $50 i can look it up and see the brand/make etc for you.
Nighthawks are super expensive and there are others like mark says that are the full sealed LED 7" lights for jeeps that work very well too.
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Dec 16 2020, 07:58 AM
i got my lens/reflector from 914rubber, but the early LED bulbs they had i didnt like , i tested 5-6 different sets and found a set off Amazon that are perfect and they wera bout $50 i can look it up and see the brand/make etc for you.
Nighthawks are super expensive and there are others like mark says that are the full sealed LED 7" lights for jeeps that work very well too.
That would be great if you could post the brand and make of those lights.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 16 2020, 11:14 AM
Would really like to move to LED headlights for the safety and efficiency, but don't love the look of modern headlights in vintage cars.
Have been trying to figure out if any of these with "period" lenses are viable. Concerned that the fluting that makes them look nearly stock may be incompatible with LED, and yet here they are for sale—and I definitely prefer their appearance over some of the truck lights.
https://vintagecarleds.com
Curious for others' thoughts…
Posted by: mepstein Dec 16 2020, 11:28 AM
Would really like to move to LED headlights for the safety and efficiency, but don't love the look of modern headlights in vintage cars.
Have been trying to figure out if any of these with "period" lenses are viable. Concerned that the fluting that makes them look nearly stock may be incompatible with LED, and yet here they are for sale—and I definitely prefer their appearance over some of the truck lights.
https://vintagecarleds.com
Curious for others' thoughts…
I think you already know the answer.
But 914 lights are hidden unless you are using them.
Posted by: drem914 Dec 16 2020, 11:43 AM
For my car I already had Cibie H4 lenses (updated them back in the early 80's), so I updated them with the the 914Rubber bulbs.
To date it has worked well. Spoke LED front turn signals are also seen in the photo. I have a set of the 914 lenses if you are interested in them.
Posted by: davep Dec 16 2020, 12:49 PM
Retrofitting FED bulbs within existing lenses is not a proper solution since the LED is not in exactly the same location as the filaments were before. Thus the lense will not focus the beam properly. You lose beam effectiveness, and people coming at you can be blinded. The correct solution is a bolt in headlight assembly that is correctly designed.
Posted by: GregAmy Dec 16 2020, 01:15 PM
You drivin' around during the day with your headlights up where others can see them...?
Or you don't like the pattern of light that others can see at night...?
Or it just bothers you knowing it's there even though no one can see it...?
Honestly, if it's the vintage-look thing, then we should all be driving around with the original seamed-beam incandescent lights. Because that's all they came with originally here in the USA.
Posted by: Mikey914 Dec 16 2020, 01:17 PM
Retrofitting FED bulbs within existing lenses is not a proper solution since the LED is not in exactly the same location as the filaments were before. Thus the lense will not focus the beam properly. You lose beam effectiveness, and people coming at you can be blinded. The correct solution is a bolt in headlight assembly that is correctly designed.
OEM was sealed bulb There are housings designed for LED application
Posted by: Mikey914 Dec 16 2020, 01:20 PM
We have sourced a new vendor for the LED bulbs that is looking to be a higher quality product and pricing will be able to remain the same. More to follow, but we will be testing in the next few days.
Posted by: VaccaRabite Dec 16 2020, 01:55 PM
I have the VintageCar LEDs in my own car.
Night and day difference over sealed beams or H4 lights. I wish I had made the jump to LED headlights years ago. When the lights are up, they look like 70s sealed beams except MUCH MUCH BRIGTER.
If I was doing it again I WOULD NOT buy them.
I would go with any of the cheaper LED headlights made for jeeps.
The Vintage LEDs look really good when the headlights are up. But, as Mark said, ours are mostly down.
Also - and this is big for me - the Vintage LED bulbs stick out of the housing. They push against the headlight covers and were kind of a pain to adjust because of it. Also, due to the light vibrating off the headlight cover, I am concerned about them failing. Concerned enough that I have a set of Jeep LEDs sitting in my garage waiting for the more expensive ones to break.
On a Bug or a 911, I would say get the Vintage Car setup. for a 914, get something cheaper, its going to work better.
Zach
Posted by: drem914 Dec 16 2020, 02:14 PM
We have sourced a new vendor for the LED bulbs that is looking to be a higher quality product and pricing will be able to remain the same. More to follow, but we will be testing in the next few days.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3348 the image you see are the 914Rrubber LEDs in the my older Cibie lens housings on Lo with the oem fog lights. I did not wind up using the lenses you provided as part of your GB from 2019.
Posted by: saigon71 Dec 16 2020, 03:00 PM
One of my winter items is to install LED lights in place of my old sealed beams.
These are a little pricier than other options, but I like the look.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZYAP0M/ref=au_as_r?_encoding=UTF8&Make=Porsche%7C2&Model=914%7C12&Year=1974%7C1974&ie=UTF8&vehicleId=2&vehicleType=automotive
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 16 2020, 03:24 PM
Hi Pete, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , Zach, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1435 , is hitting an issue not previously discussed which we had to deal with on my GE Nighthawks. They protrude further out of the housing then a stock sealed beam or H4 lens. That is why when you look at my car or see it in pictures it looks like the gap for the eyebrows and the headlight cover is just off a bit. Kent & Jim had to adjust the eyebrows to allow the headlights to open/close without hitting the eyebrows. The headlight sticks out maybe 3/16" to 1/4" further than stock.
But considering the GE's are 100% plug and play with no alterations or extra wiring, etc., I decided that was the way to go. Now, if someone makes an LED headlight that looks period correct and does not protrude and is plug and play....I would likely swap to that. Then we could re-adjust the eyebrows to fit 100% correctly. Not high on my list, but on the list.
I like the look of the Vintage lights a lot - I would go with the Hella H4 lens in the 5000 series and run them with the bright white color. Price wise they seem to be about the same as the GE's at today prices.
That leaves the truck light options- and there has got to be tons, like Zach said.
Keep us informed of how you proceed. I do love, love, love the light my Nighthawks put out. It's like the factory headlights were candles. The older I get the more light I need to see anything.
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Dec 16 2020, 03:29 PM
Hi Pete, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , Zach, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1435 , is hitting an issue not previously discussed which we had to deal with on my GE Nighthawks. They protrude further out of the housing then a stock sealed beam or H4 lens. That is why when you look at my car or see it in pictures it looks like the gap for the eyebrows and the headlight cover is just off a bit. Kent & Jim had to adjust the eyebrows to allow the headlights to open/close without hitting the eyebrows. The headlight sticks out maybe 3/16" to 1/4" further than stock.
But considering the GE's are 100% plug and play with no alterations or extra wiring, etc., I decided that was the way to go. Now, if someone makes an LED headlight that looks period correct and does not protrude and is plug and play....I would likely swap to that. Then we could re-adjust the eyebrows to fit 100% correctly. Not high on my list, but on the list.
I like the look of the Vintage lights a lot - I would go with the Hella H4 lens in the 5000 series and run them with the bright white color. Price wise they seem to be about the same as the GE's at today prices.
That leaves the truck light options- and there has got to be tons, like Zach said.
Keep us informed of how you proceed. I do love, love, love the light my Nighthawks put out. It's like the factory headlights were candles. The older I get the more light I need to see anything.
I have an X1/9 that will have all of the exact same issues you discuss. I'm starting with the 914 since there is a stronger community supporting that vehicle. Once I get the 914 headlights sorted out, I'll take the lessons learned and apply to the X1/9.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 16 2020, 03:38 PM
You drivin' around during the day with your headlights up where others can see them...?
Or you don't like the pattern of light that others can see at night...?
Or it just bothers you knowing it's there even though no one can see it...?
Honestly, if it's the vintage-look thing, then we should all be driving around with the original seamed-beam incandescent lights. Because that's all they came with originally here in the USA.
None of the above, actually.
I like cars and details that look "period" but perform better—it's an affliction, I tell you, but we all have our ticks, don't we? Worse in this case, I actually like the way a 914 looks with its lights up (just as I do with, say, a Stratos or any number of cool old cars), so occasionally I put them up. Or I do so for safety during the day in some situations. Maybe it's 5-10% of the time (in truth I have no idea), but it's enough that I'd love to figure out a performance solution that retains "enough" 1970s to it. Trying to weigh out how much performance is lost against LEDs that don't worry about such silly concerns; the good news is the baseline with old H4s is very low indeed…hence the desire for better lights!
I have the VintageCar LEDs in my own car.
Night and day difference over sealed beams or H4 lights. I wish I had made the jump to LED headlights years ago. When the lights are up, they look like 70s sealed beams except MUCH MUCH BRIGTER.
If I was doing it again I WOULD NOT buy them.
I would go with any of the cheaper LED headlights made for jeeps.
The Vintage LEDs look really good when the headlights are up. But, as Mark said, ours are mostly down.
Also - and this is big for me - the Vintage LED bulbs stick out of the housing. They push against the headlight covers and were kind of a pain to adjust because of it. Also, due to the light vibrating off the headlight cover, I am concerned about them failing. Concerned enough that I have a set of Jeep LEDs sitting in my garage waiting for the more expensive ones to break.
On a Bug or a 911, I would say get the Vintage Car setup. for a 914, get something cheaper, its going to work better.
Zach
^ Just the kind of feedback I was hoping for—thank you for sharing your experience Zach!
Sounds like the Vintage LEDs were a massive jump over your old headlights. That's what I needed to know, and super helpful. Would love to know more about the fitment issues and not entirely clear on your concern about the vibrating off the covers? One of my H4's vibrates enough at speed that I know something is wrong...need to deal with that. Suspect it has to do with the adjustment of the damping "bolt" on that side of the car, but really need to take everything apart and rebush everything. Have a kit that's been sitting...
Hi Pete, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , Zach, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1435 , is hitting an issue not previously discussed which we had to deal with on my GE Nighthawks. They protrude further out of the housing then a stock sealed beam or H4 lens. That is why when you look at my car or see it in pictures it looks like the gap for the eyebrows and the headlight cover is just off a bit. Kent & Jim had to adjust the eyebrows to allow the headlights to open/close without hitting the eyebrows. The headlight sticks out maybe 3/16" to 1/4" further than stock.
But considering the GE's are 100% plug and play with no alterations or extra wiring, etc., I decided that was the way to go. Now, if someone makes an LED headlight that looks period correct and does not protrude and is plug and play....I would likely swap to that. Then we could re-adjust the eyebrows to fit 100% correctly. Not high on my list, but on the list.
I like the look of the Vintage lights a lot - I would go with the Hella H4 lens in the 5000 series and run them with the bright white color. Price wise they seem to be about the same as the GE's at today prices.
That leaves the truck light options- and there has got to be tons, like Zach said.
Keep us informed of how you proceed. I do love, love, love the light my Nighthawks put out. It's like the factory headlights were candles. The older I get the more light I need to see anything.
^ Also really good info, Michael. Thanks!
I'll contact Vintage LEDs, as I wonder if one of the two upgrade lenses is "flatter" than the others, and if this might help? It's funny that they list not one but three lenses you can choose from—and one of them is an "H4" and says as much. I was going to skip it as it looks most likely to cause issues with the beam and adds the most $, but I wonder if it's as flat-faced as my H4s, and if that might help? Is it the convex nature of the lenses that is causing the problem, or the way these LED lights sit in the factory cradle?
Posted by: 914forme Dec 16 2020, 03:53 PM
Anything that is DOT Approved. Living in the Great State of Ohio out in the country I get stopped once a year for vehicle inspection, nothing like living in a top 2 state for motorist harassment.
One of the things they look at is DOT labels on all lights, so I run only DOT lighting.
Truck-Lites as mentioned are DOT. Fit perfect you only see them when I raise the headlights on the 914 or that Fait for that matter. And when you do it is either to clean them or use them. Or show the officer they are working for road side inspection.
Huge different over my Cibie Z beams I run in the 914-6. But Z beams are what the cool kids run, and I am not sure what they would look like with LED. If I need to drive at night I will take something with HIDs.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 16 2020, 04:21 PM
Pete, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , here are pictures of the original headlights that were in my car showing the difference in the protrusion of the GE Nighthawks now in my car, (forgive the dirt- I drove it in the rain and still need to clean her.):
Posted by: Beeliner Dec 16 2020, 05:20 PM
This discussion came up a while back and I purchased the GE Truck Lights...
I'm very happy and I was glad they were plug & play because that is pushing the envelope for me technologically. 
Anyway, the 914s I bought new all had headlights that were pathetic. I survived only because all the streets around NYC have street lights. All of them. If there were dirt roads, they would have had street lights.
PS: if you were going to have sex in the car at night, just park under a tree and don't worry...
Posted by: Chris914n6 Dec 17 2020, 01:23 AM
^^ Good point. Modern Jeep is not standard size. The older Jeeps used standard sizes and that's where the confusion lies. But a Jeep 'spec' isn't what we are needing.
I put HID retrofit H4 bulbs in vintage Cibie Ecode housings and it's near perfect. But that is another Chinese rabbit hole for quality and in-spec bulbs.
Posted by: VaccaRabite Dec 18 2020, 12:11 PM
My issue with the VintageCar LED is different then Cairo's issue with the nighthawks. His issue is with the front of the lens, and mine is with the backside (where the sun don't shine).
I did not have a pic of mine, so I used a pic off the VintageCar LED website. Their bulbs have the big heat sink as shown, and this sticks out about 2 inches from the back of the lens. You can make it fit in a 914 bucket. Many have including me. But for a 914 it does not fit RIGHT.
Then VintageCar lenses are fine. Great even. Fit right in, and look 100% period for the 70s (especially when you buy the "classic" lens, which I did for a small upcharge).
Vintage Car used a bulb and lens approach similar to an H4. The LED bulbs are long and stick well out behind the back of the headlight lens. So much so that the headlight and heat sink is pressed firmly against the sheet metal that makes up the headlight cover when the lights are down. In effect, when you adjust the lights, they are bearing not against the housing frame, but the back of the bulb heatshield is the bearing point against the sheet metal of the headlight cover.
On a car that does not have very shallow headlight housings (like a bug or 911, etc) these bulbs would not have a single issue. On a 914 with our shallow buckets, it is an issue. - at least with the lenses I bought.
Zach
Posted by: yellowporky Dec 18 2020, 12:23 PM
I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3-7-inch-led-headlight-kit/
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 18 2020, 12:29 PM
Looking forward to hearing how those work out for you.
Posted by: VaccaRabite Dec 18 2020, 12:37 PM
I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3-7-inch-led-headlight-kit/
Oh that is interesting. I wish this had been an option when I bought mine last year. This should completely solve the issue that I have with my lights from this company.
Zach
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 18 2020, 01:43 PM
I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3-7-inch-led-headlight-kit/
Oh that is interesting. I wish this had been an option when I bought mine last year. This should completely solve the issue that I have with my lights from this company.
Zach
^ Wonder if just the bulbs can be updated?
Getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on a set with the Hella H4 lenses. Interesting to look at their before/after photos, assuming they're truly representative. This really seems like a no-brainer for less than $300. I will say my H4s are simply abysmal between being spoiled for so long by modern lighting and my aging peepers. This and Spoke's brake boards seem like two valuable safety upgrades for our old cars.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 18 2020, 02:09 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package.
Posted by: Jamie Dec 18 2020, 02:21 PM
I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3-7-inch-led-headlight-kit/
Oh that is interesting. I wish this had been an option when I bought mine last year. This should completely solve the issue that I have with my lights from this company.
Zach
Two Okteenerfests ago we had a demo from an LED dealer, and I later installed their sealed beam bulbs and they are great. Problem is I don't remember the name of the dealer, thought it might have been Vintage, but they don't show a sealed bulb on their site. Wish I could recall the name of the dealer because I'm very pleased with their product and price.
Posted by: yellowporky Dec 18 2020, 08:47 PM
Just got them today
Hopefully get them in soon. Was happy to see that they were pre assembled 
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 18 2020, 09:27 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package.
Yep, having almost lost my 914 after being rear-ended in 1995 (AAA was delighted to tell me that they were totaling my car and would have a check for $3000 coming right up!) to a pretty light hit, I can't believe it's taken me this long to do something other than making sure the original lights/lighting was as good as it could be in terms of grounds, etc. Really looking forward to getting Spoke's LED brake lights in.
Have looked at 3rd brake lights and have seen some members come up with really well executed setups, but none so far that I'm willing to do—though some have had me close. Just don't want to look at them when they're not in use...but that's a rediculous bar, I know. Something about cake and eating it too...
Posted by: mepstein Dec 18 2020, 09:48 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package.
Yep, having almost lost my 914 after being rear-ended in 1995 (AAA was delighted to tell me that they were totaling my car and would have a check for $3000 coming right up!) to a pretty light hit, I can't believe it's taken me this long to do something other than making sure the original lights/lighting was as good as it could be in terms of grounds, etc. Really looking forward to getting Spoke's LED brake lights in.
Have looked at 3rd brake lights and have seen some members come up with really well executed setups, but none so far that I'm willing to do—though some have had me close. Just don't want to look at them when they're not in use...but that's a rediculous bar, I know. Something about cake and eating it too...
Held on with small magnets and a quick release connector.
Motorcycle helmets are being made with a wireless Bluetooth 3rd brake light on the back. Maybe Jerry/Spoke could make one for our cars.
Posted by: Krieger Dec 18 2020, 09:50 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package.
Yep, having almost lost my 914 after being rear-ended in 1995 (AAA was delighted to tell me that they were totaling my car and would have a check for $3000 coming right up!) to a pretty light hit, I can't believe it's taken me this long to do something other than making sure the original lights/lighting was as good as it could be in terms of grounds, etc. Really looking forward to getting Spoke's LED brake lights in.
Have looked at 3rd brake lights and have seen some members come up with really well executed setups, but none so far that I'm willing to do—though some have had me close. Just don't want to look at them when they're not in use...but that's a rediculous bar, I know. Something about cake and eating it too...
I am right there with you on the headlights @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 . In April I finally finished my 75 when I installed my GE Nighthawks this past April!
Posted by: Montreal914 Dec 18 2020, 10:25 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package.
Yep, having almost lost my 914 after being rear-ended in 1995 (AAA was delighted to tell me that they were totaling my car and would have a check for $3000 coming right up!) to a pretty light hit, I can't believe it's taken me this long to do something other than making sure the original lights/lighting was as good as it could be in terms of grounds, etc. Really looking forward to getting Spoke's LED brake lights in.
Have looked at 3rd brake lights and have seen some members come up with really well executed setups, but none so far that I'm willing to do—though some have had me close. Just don't want to look at them when they're not in use...but that's a rediculous bar, I know. Something about cake and eating it too...
I too am not into anything that would show and not be "period correct". That being said the third brake light is a must!
I have used an LED package from a Honda 90's? trunk rear wing. These are slim and hide well under the Targa bar and doesn't show in the rear view mirror. I used VHB double face tape about 8 years ago and it hasn't moved. Wires are hidden in the trim. Being slightly recessed from the aluminum rear trim, it is very subtle but very visible when I hit the brakes.
Posted by: bbrock Dec 19 2020, 12:04 AM
I too am not into anything that would show and not be "period correct". That being said the third brake light is a must!
I have used an LED package from a Honda 90's? trunk rear wing. These are slim and hide well under the Targa bar and doesn't show in the rear view mirror. I used VHB double face tape about 8 years ago and it hasn't moved. Wires are hidden in the trim. Being slightly recessed from the aluminum rear trim, it is very subtle but very visible when I hit the brakes.
I went a similar route using a flexible light bar for motorcycles. Details are on my build thread here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=307290&view=findpost&p=2847290
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 19 2020, 11:16 AM
^ Two examples of the ones that were really well done, and almost have me there.
Part of what makes this "garage" so great is not just the exchange of ideas but the ongoing exchange of ideas, and the prompts that make you reconsider something you might have come to "no solution" on—and maybe from a different angle, with a different picture/view, that prompts a thought you didn't have back then. Looking at these pics, I am reminded of what I viewed as the best-case fixes, and a no-brainer for safety/cheap insurance, but still a compromise in an area that matters to me with old cars: period correctness. And, looking at these pics, I wonder if I can somehow get the back pad "just higher enough" between my headrests to conceal one of those ultra-thin LED strips so it is seen through the rear window. Not sure I am communicating the idea well, but I'll be fiddling with my 914's interior this weekend—hopefully—and do some scheming. Probably (well) outside my skillset to do it "invisibly" (it may require an upholsterer who can mod the backpad), but will be fun to look at/think about.
Meantime, I am thankful for this thread, as it got me over the hump on two safety upgrades I now view as no-brainers:
1. LED headlights (will wait to see how yellowporky's install goes)
2. Spoke's LED brake boards
Posted by: Mikey914 Dec 19 2020, 11:47 AM
We have a new brake light product that another member has made that we will be rolling out in the next week. It's really cool and super easy to install. I think you all will like it.
Mark
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 19 2020, 12:52 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 . In April I finally finished my 75 when I installed my GE Nighthawks this past April!
This is so cool to read, having driven your car for the first time so long ago—and it was great even back then!
Posted by: Montreal914 Dec 19 2020, 01:04 PM
I wonder if I can somehow get the back pad "just higher enough" between my headrests to conceal one of those ultra-thin LED strips so it is seen through the rear window.
I wanted the third light to be as high as possible (for big SUVs...). Also, the Targa bar line (side view) goes down, which helps in hiding the housing. And it is red plastic so it doesn't stand out much in my case (Bahia). The other thing I like is that if I turn my head and look up, I can see some red light indicating me that my brake lights are working (at least that one...). Finally, the price was right, $Ebay $12
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 19 2020, 01:39 PM
I agree that the 3rd brake light needs to mounted on the targa bar, as high as you can get it. For me, my goal is under the targa bar and back towards the trim, away from the window. I am looking for something about 12-18". Every time I take my car out I freak out when I see some asshat kid behind me with his phone in his hand as he is driving. Where I live there seems to be an abundance of those. 
Posted by: mepstein Dec 19 2020, 01:46 PM
I agree that the 3rd brake light needs to mounted on the targa bar, as high as you can get it. For me, my goal is under the targa bar and back towards the trim, away from the window. I am looking for something about 12-18". Every time I take my car out I freak out when I see some asshat kid behind me with his phone in his hand as he is driving. Where I live there seems to be an abundance of those.
You are not alone. Yesterday I was at a red light and someone plowed into the back of the car next to me. I bet they were going 25-30. Must have been looking down at their phone. Everybody was ok but both cars were trashed.
Posted by: 73-914 Dec 19 2020, 02:02 PM
^^ Good point. Modern Jeep is not standard size. The older Jeeps used standard sizes and that's where the confusion lies. But a Jeep 'spec' isn't what we are needing.
I put HID retrofit H4 bulbs in vintage Cibie Ecode housings and it's near perfect. But that is another Chinese rabbit hole for quality and in-spec bulbs.
I like my E-codes also but they are not DOT approved
Posted by: malcolm2 Dec 19 2020, 02:07 PM
https://vintagecarleds.com/
Great supporter of 914 world. Came to the last Okteenerfest and gave away a set. Not just gave away, but installed them as we all watched.
I also bought a set for my 72 VW Bus restoration.
I will admit that I had issues installing. For some reason I had a 75 headlight frame and a 73 frame. The Vintage LED did not want to go in the 75 frame. So I found another 73 frame and all is well. So if you have a 75 or 76, be prepared.
I did need to adjust them properly and that helped the fit too, but did not solve my problem, I had to get the early light frame. I will say Vintage was great with helping me get things figured out. Quick replies on my emails, etc...
Clark
Posted by: yellowporky Dec 25 2020, 06:41 PM
So today i finally had a day off of work and was able to install the Vintage car leds.
Install was as easy as changing a light bulb since these were the simple plug and play H4 with the Hella lenses.
I did notice that the spades were thinner on the led bulb and i had to squeeze the female connector down to get a solid connection. I always cringe when doing this because the old connectors are so brittle.
I am very impressed with the output of the lights and the low beam cut off is very crisp compared to my old sylvania sealed bulbs.
Also when i had the headlights in the up position and the battery disconnected i had pushed the switch back in one position so the headlights were off but the parking lights would all be on when i put power back. watching my voltage gauge there was no movement at all when i pulled the switch out to turn on the headlights and also no movement going from low to high beams.
I would highly recommend this option
Chris
Posted by: bkrantz Dec 25 2020, 07:47 PM
So today i finally had a day off of work and was able to install the Vintage car leds.
Install was as easy as changing a light bulb since these were the simple plug and play H4 with the Hella lenses.
I did notice that the spades were thinner on the led bulb and i had to squeeze the female connector down to get a solid connection. I always cringe when doing this because the old connectors are so brittle.
I am very impressed with the output of the lights and the low beam cut off is very crisp compared to my old sylvania sealed bulbs.
Also when i had the headlights in the up position and the battery disconnected i had pushed the switch back in one position so the headlights were off but the parking lights would all be on when i put power back. watching my voltage gauge there was no movement at all when i pulled the switch out to turn on the headlights and also no movement going from low to high beams.
I would highly recommend this option
Chris
Which Vintage kit or bulb did you use?
Posted by: yellowporky Dec 25 2020, 07:52 PM
I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3-7-inch-led-headlight-kit/
Posted by: Jamie Dec 25 2020, 09:32 PM
So today i finally had a day off of work and was able to install the Vintage car leds.
Install was as easy as changing a light bulb since these were the simple plug and play H4 with the Hella lenses.
I did notice that the spades were thinner on the led bulb and i had to squeeze the female connector down to get a solid connection. I always cringe when doing this because the old connectors are so brittle.
I am very impressed with the output of the lights and the low beam cut off is very crisp compared to my old sylvania sealed bulbs.
Also when i had the headlights in the up position and the battery disconnected i had pushed the switch back in one position so the headlights were off but the parking lights would all be on when i put power back. watching my voltage gauge there was no movement at all when i pulled the switch out to turn on the headlights and also no movement going from low to high beams.
I would highly recommend this option
Chris
I believe these were the same LED bulbs I installed shortly after the Okteenerfest demo, and I have been very pleased with the ease of installation, performance, and the price!
Posted by: BillJ Dec 26 2020, 09:26 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10948 do you have pictures of installed finished product? Do they protrude in housing?
Posted by: yellowporky Dec 26 2020, 10:10 AM
These use Hella H4 housings so no
Posted by: BillJ Dec 26 2020, 11:34 AM
Cool. Ordered.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 26 2020, 01:11 PM
Just ordered, as well.
Posted by: bkrantz Dec 26 2020, 09:28 PM
I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3-7-inch-led-headlight-kit/
Thanks! (sorry I missed the earlier post)
Posted by: Montreal914 Dec 26 2020, 10:28 PM
Install was as easy as changing a light bulb since these were the simple plug and play H4 with the Hella lenses.
I am very impressed with the output of the lights and the low beam cut off is very crisp compared to my old sylvania sealed bulbs.
Not sure I fully understand what you had before. Did you install the LED bulbs in your already installed Hella H4 housings, or your replaced your sealed beams by both the H4 housing and LED bulbs?
Very appealing option to keep the Hella housing as I personally like them. So, I understand the LEDs are much better than the sealed beams, but are they a lot better than the standard halogen 55W H4 bulbs?
Thank you for sharing the info!
Posted by: yellowporky Dec 26 2020, 10:39 PM
I had a pair of sealed beam Sylvania bulbs from 1986. They were very yellow and not very bright. When you order from Vintage Led you can choose to upgrade to the Hella H4 lens over the basic included one. I imaging if you already have the lens you could simply install their led bulb in it.
When you ask if the Led is better that a 55 watt H4 i would have to say 100% yes due to the low draw for the same light output. I cringe at the thought of running high power through our old electrical systems
Posted by: yellowporky Dec 27 2020, 09:58 PM
Finally got to drive the car tonight and the difference is significant. Used to be scary to drive at night on dark roads now like a normal car
Posted by: BillJ Dec 28 2020, 08:48 AM
on dark roads i needed to use the pilot lights to get even moderate visibility compared to the stock headlights. From a safety point of view it is a must for me.
Posted by: 76-914 Dec 28 2020, 04:38 PM
I can remember when one could tell by the approaching car's headlights whether it had a 6v or 12v electrical system. And a few years later if someone had a 12v generator or alternator if the headlights dimmed when they let off the gas. 
Posted by: saigon71 Dec 28 2020, 08:14 PM
One of my winter items is to install LED lights in place of my old sealed beams.
These are a little pricier than other options, but I like the look.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZYAP0M/ref=au_as_r?_encoding=UTF8&Make=Porsche%7C2&Model=914%7C12&Year=1974%7C1974&ie=UTF8&vehicleId=2&vehicleType=automotive
Installed these today. They are truly plug & play. I like the look and they don't protrude further than stock. I was still using sealed beams...
Posted by: Root_Werks Dec 31 2020, 10:03 AM
Anyone have trouble with LED headlights icing up? Put a set on my wife's Jeep thinking I'd do the same to my 914. But, first day we had some snow a few weeks ago the snow piled up and blocked the headlights. This made them pretty much useless.
I ordered and installed a set of Hella H4's. Only warm to the touch, but is that the key to stopping ice or snow from building up on headlights? Just that little bit of warmth?
Posted by: yellowporky Dec 31 2020, 10:31 AM
Makes sense since the led does not put out much heat
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Dec 31 2020, 10:40 AM
Anyone have trouble with LED headlights icing up? Put a set on my wife's Jeep thinking I'd do the same to my 914. But, first day we had some snow a few weeks ago the snow piled up and blocked the headlights. This made them pretty much useless.
I ordered and installed a set of Hella H4's. Only warm to the touch, but is that the key to stopping ice or snow from building up on headlights? Just that little bit of warmth?
It looks like they sell heated LED headlights, if that is a concern. They aren't cheap. I doubt I will ever drive my 914 in the snow at night, though, so I'll pass on the heated versions.
https://www.4statetrucks.com/lighting/semi-truck-7-inch-round-heated-led-headlight_43101.asp? gclid=CjwKCAiAirb_BRBNEiwALHlnDys1pvUM61SYhON_4v5_pvhzZ0AeM8wr0zlI6SMwhFrwBzSsWm
rH-xoC1yMQAvD_BwE
Posted by: mepstein Dec 31 2020, 10:51 AM
One of my winter items is to install LED lights in place of my old sealed beams.
These are a little pricier than other options, but I like the look.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZYAP0M/ref=au_as_r?_encoding=UTF8&Make=Porsche%7C2&Model=914%7C12&Year=1974%7C1974&ie=UTF8&vehicleId=2&vehicleType=automotive
Installed these today. They are truly plug & play. I like the look and they don't protrude further than stock. I was still using sealed beams...
Bob - I think you will be blown away at the difference. Especially since you use your car more than just a sunny day driver.
Posted by: stevend914 Jan 5 2021, 10:13 AM
I've been looking to install LED headlights in my 1970 but when I go to the Vintage Car led website they show fitment for 1972-1976.
Any suggestions on led installation for a 1970
Posted by: bdstone914 Jan 5 2021, 10:39 AM
I've been looking to install LED headlights in my 1970 but when I go to the Vintage Car led website they show fitment for 1972-1976.
Any suggestions on led installation for a 1970
they will fit all years. No differences on 70-72 cars that affect the headlights.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20670
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 5 2021, 11:28 AM
Betty and I have 3 914s between us. All of them run spoke's LED external lighting and 914Rubber's LED headlight bulbs in the Hella H4 housings. Those products are great, and they make a significant difference in visibility from both inside and outside the car.
We even did the factory six, as both products are easily reversible and require no drilling or modifying in any way.
I just wish I had a good third brake light solution.
Clay
Posted by: iankarr Jan 5 2021, 12:34 PM
Some installation tips and brightness comparisons...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkTa0JSenk0
Posted by: mmichalik Jan 5 2021, 12:56 PM
This is exactly what I've been looking for. Thanks for posting it!
Posted by: stevend914 Jan 5 2021, 01:01 PM
I've been looking to install LED headlights in my 1970 but when I go to the Vintage Car led website they show fitment for 1972-1976.
Any suggestions on led installation for a 1970
they will fit all years. No differences on 70-72 cars that affect the headlights.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20670
OK, thanks for that info
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Jan 5 2021, 01:17 PM
Nice video, Ian! I've watched several of your other ones. Love the Ravenna Green, which was my first choice. Anyhow, I've got to finish installing the headlights I got tonight and post on the final results.
A few notes: I did remove the turn signal lenses to get to the screw on the outside of the headlight trim. It only takes a minute to remove the lenses, and it kept me from stripping the head of the screw (mine was a little tight). Secondly, I wish I had viewed the video before because removing the relay would have saved me from having the headlights close when I had them apart (due to my own fault!). Third, when I removed the headlight trim, the painted headlight covers came off as well. I'm not sure if I'm missing a screw there, or if you simply didn't bother to take them off. But, it gave me a chance to clean and inspect those pieces. Fourth, you don't need to leave off the headlight trim to reach the adjustment screws when aiming as there are holes in the trim. But, since you already had them off, it makes sense to wait to re-install the trim until after aiming as I'm sure having the trim off makes it easier to access the adjusting screws.
Thanks again for the info and the great videos!
Posted by: iankarr Jan 5 2021, 01:44 PM
...Third, when I removed the headlight trim, the painted headlight covers came off as well. I'm not sure if I'm missing a screw there, or if you simply didn't bother to take them off.
Thanks again for the info and the great videos!
Thanks, Frunk! Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're missing a screw...on the headlight cover
. lol. The painted part should stay with the bucket. But you're right...always good to get in there to clean and inspect. Also great point about the holes in the surrounds allowing you to adjust while they're installed. I didn't want to go fishin' for the somewhat rusty philips heads, so I chose to leave the surrounds off until I was done.
I just read your signature...nice stable! My very first car was a 77 X 1/9. It broke down on my way to the prom and I fixed it in my tuxedo. But I loved that car.
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Jan 5 2021, 02:54 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're missing a screw...
For some reason, I get that a lot.
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Jan 11 2021, 10:23 PM
I ended up buying a set of Grote (grow-tee) LED headlights from Advance Auto Parts. They keep them in stock at the stores, so I put in an order for pickup and had them in hand 30 minutes later. They are $130 each, but Advance Auto always has promo codes out there. With tax, I paid $219 for the pair. They fit perfectly and look good. The difference in light output is tremendous. Easy upgrade with significant improvement for not a lot of money! Thanks for all of the advice!
Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 11 2021, 11:03 PM
I will be finishing my evaluation of the new sets we just got in later this week and if we are happy they will be listed up. I only have a few sets but can have mor in about 10 days pending the lighting being checked for high / low and QC.
Mark
Posted by: preach Jan 12 2021, 12:42 AM
Anyone have trouble with LED headlights icing up? Put a set on my wife's Jeep thinking I'd do the same to my 914. But, first day we had some snow a few weeks ago the snow piled up and blocked the headlights. This made them pretty much useless.
I ordered and installed a set of Hella H4's. Only warm to the touch, but is that the key to stopping ice or snow from building up on headlights? Just that little bit of warmth?
It looks like they sell heated LED headlights, if that is a concern. They aren't cheap. I doubt I will ever drive my 914 in the snow at night, though, so I'll pass on the heated versions.
https://www.4statetrucks.com/lighting/semi-truck-7-inch-round-heated-led-headlight_43101.asp? gclid=CjwKCAiAirb_BRBNEiwALHlnDys1pvUM61SYhON_4v5_pvhzZ0AeM8wr0zlI6SMwhFrwBzSsWm
rH-xoC1yMQAvD_BwE
You want to run these in the winter you will want heated.
I did my 2003 Tacoma with new globes and LEDs they freeze. A wet sloppy snow and driving mph will ice over. So nice though when not frozen. I think I am going to put LED aux lights and run the normal H4 bulb.
For 7" round on 4 of my other cars I am planning on pick n pull Jeep lights since they should be heated.
Posted by: ctc911ctc Jan 12 2021, 10:03 AM
I bought a pair of hawks prior to Christmas - found a guy that was selling two for 220.
When the box arrived I wrapped it for my son as a Christmas gift. When he opened it there was only ONE light. Embarrassing.
But being fast on my feet I told him the other is back-ordered.......... 
Sooo, I went back to the vendor - not too good with the American - and he responded that his advertisement said he had two to sell, to his credit he said he would take it back. However, I think I will keep it since it works very well. Oh and he sold the other one.....grrrrrrr
BTW - you need to disconnect both headlamps from the circuit prior to putting the LED into the circuit - ask me how I know! 
So now I have a one-eyed LED monster - need to find another Hawk!
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Feb 17 2021, 10:18 AM
For those of you who have installed LED bulbs (not complete LED units)—and particularly those of you who have driven significant miles at night with them—do any of you have regrets? It doesn't seem like it, but trying to square the comments below vs. the almost universal praise…
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-tech-performance/4257019-best-led-bulb-for-hella-e-code-lens.html
"I've personally witnessed 2 single car accidents where the LED headlights probably contributed significantly to the accident. One was a vehicle that struck a fallen tree that was across the road after the storm. I rode the passenger seat into that one and it wasn't fun at all. Neither the driver nor I saw the tree in time, and his "LED retrofit" lights were a definite contributor to our distance blindness which caused the wreck. The vehicle was totaled. The other was a vehicle I let pass me because his lights annoyed me, and about a mile further down the road, he struck a parked trailer (home made landscaping trailer with no reflectors). I definitely saw the obstacle before he did, and he was a hundred yards or more in front of me.
"The problem with those lights is that they throw out too much light, and too much of the light that they generate is too close to your car. Your pupils constrict and you have very little distance vision with them, so you hit stuff you would see with lights that are less bright and less glaring."
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Feb 17 2021, 10:33 AM
For those of you who have installed LED bulbs (not complete LED units)—and particularly those of you who have driven significant miles at night with them—do any of you have regrets? It doesn't seem like it, but trying to square the comments below vs. the almost universal praise…
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-tech-performance/4257019-best-led-bulb-for-hella-e-code-lens.html
"I've personally witnessed 2 single car accidents where the LED headlights probably contributed significantly to the accident. One was a vehicle that struck a fallen tree that was across the road after the storm. I rode the passenger seat into that one and it wasn't fun at all. Neither the driver nor I saw the tree in time, and his "LED retrofit" lights were a definite contributor to our distance blindness which caused the wreck. The vehicle was totaled. The other was a vehicle I let pass me because his lights annoyed me, and about a mile further down the road, he struck a parked trailer (home made landscaping trailer with no reflectors). I definitely saw the obstacle before he did, and he was a hundred yards or more in front of me.
"The problem with those lights is that they throw out too much light, and too much of the light that they generate is too close to your car. Your pupils constrict and you have very little distance vision with them, so you hit stuff you would see with lights that are less bright and less glaring."
That's a good topic to discuss. I would think that, given the wide availability of complete replacement units at a very reasonable cost (under $250 for the set), it would be best to replace the entire headlight unit rather than just installing an LED bulb in the existing housing/lens. I'm no expert, but it would avoid the problem that the Corvette guys are discussing in that thread.
Posted by: Unpretentious Feb 17 2021, 11:03 PM
These are the headlights I installed on my ‘73 1.7 a couple nights ago. They’re certainly a cleaner, brighter beam. OEM fog lights seem to work just fine, though they look pretty dingy compared to the LED’s. They were a simple “plug and play” with no rear clearance problems or “bulging” in the front. Manufacturer quality control isn’t the best. When adjusted the best I could, the left low beam was slightly higher than the right, but on high beam, it was slightly lower?? They’re just fine for my daily driver, but when I replace the headlights on the Creamsicle and the Six I’ll likely go for a more authentic look and pay much more too!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: VaccaRabite Feb 18 2021, 12:04 PM
For those of you who have installed LED bulbs (not complete LED units)—and particularly those of you who have driven significant miles at night with them—do any of you have regrets? It doesn't seem like it, but trying to square the comments below vs. the almost universal praise…
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-tech-performance/4257019-best-led-bulb-for-hella-e-code-lens.html
That's a good topic to discuss. I would think that, given the wide availability of complete replacement units at a very reasonable cost (under $250 for the set), it would be best to replace the entire headlight unit rather than just installing an LED bulb in the existing housing/lens. I'm no expert, but it would avoid the problem that the Corvette guys are discussing in that thread.
This is exactly right. You have to go with a housing that was designed to be used with LED bulbs. This is fairly easy on a 914 since they use a standard 7 inch bulb that is still common today. For other vehicles (like my 4Runner) there are not housings that are made for LEDs readily available (and the ones that are cost over $1000). That is the situation where people are putting LED bulbs in H4 housings and getting dangerous light patterns as a result.
With the 7 inch bulbs we use, we can even get heated LED housings since these things are meant for daily driven vehicles that need heat to keep the headlights clear in shitty weather.
Zach
Posted by: Mikey914 Feb 18 2021, 01:25 PM
The LEDs that fit into housings do require alignment. They have defined light patterns (at least the ones we have tested and sell), this is also why we sell the housings that we have tested.
The complete units are no exception, improperly aimed they are just as dangerous.
The key is proper installation WITH alignment.
No way around that.
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