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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Lightweight doors
Posted by: grantsfo Jul 25 2005, 08:26 PM
Anyone have ideas on sources for lightweight 914 doors that would allow stock door handles and windows to work? How much weight can be saved by going from 1974 to earlier doors?
Posted by: Randal Jul 25 2005, 08:29 PM
Bontempi probably has some.
Posted by: SLITS Jul 25 2005, 09:10 PM
Have a couple of sets....you lose the impact bar only....don't know what it weighs.
Posted by: Cloudbuster Jul 25 2005, 09:18 PM
On my DOT approved, highly precise bathroom scales:
Stripped early door (nothing, nothing and nothing) - 25 lbs
Complete late door (glass, inside panel, wing window, latches, etc) - 60 lbs
Don't early doors have different window mechanisms?
Posted by: SLITS Jul 25 2005, 09:19 PM
| QUOTE (Cloudbuster @ Jul 25 2005, 08:18 PM) |
| Don't early doors have different window mechanisms? |
Yep
There are some early doors (late 72...Mid '73?) that have the late winder hardware but no impact bar, hence "lightweight racer" doors.
Posted by: olav Jul 25 2005, 09:20 PM
I think a early door is 20lbs about and a late door is about 60lbs.
I picked both up to gauge them. Quite a difference indeed.
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 06:42 AM
There is not that much differance in early vs late doors. I think this is a 914 myth. An COMPLETE early door weighs 45 pounds. I've weighed them myself.
There is a lot of differance between a stock complete late door and and a window-less early door. This is the weight savings route to take.
Or go with a f/g door skin.
Paul
Posted by: brant Jul 26 2005, 09:49 AM
If you want to keep the glass and keep it as a street car then I'm guessing your talking about 8-10 pounds max difference.
the door beam is a simple folded piece of sheet metal that is tacked in as a bar. Probably only weights 3 lbs for the bar itself.
Still probably worth the switch for an autox car or something...
The real weight savings is in removing the glass.
I got my metal doors to 17lbs with working outside door handles (and modified inside ones)
brant
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 26 2005, 09:52 AM
gut them and reskin them in AL or FG 
Posted by: trekkor Jul 26 2005, 10:02 AM
Grant, I'm assuming you are keeping the glass is to stay in "FM", PCA class?
No glass moves you into "X" with the unlimited modifieds.
In "X", anything goes.
KT
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 10:05 AM
| QUOTE (trekkor @ Jul 26 2005, 08:02 AM) |
| Grant, I'm assuming you are keeping the glass is to stay in "FM", PCA class? No glass moves you into "X" with the unlimited modifieds. In "X", anything goes. KT |
I'm in triple X. Now were talking "anything"
Some call it a obsession, others call it a hobby. I call it a fetish.
P
Posted by: Brett W Jul 26 2005, 10:40 AM
There is about a 20lb difference in the two doors. Early doors empty and late doors empty weight about 25 and 45 respectively.
Posted by: Randal Jul 26 2005, 11:04 AM
From the PCA rule book: Glass: The car must have full windows (glass or Plexiglas).
Windows don't have to be glass.
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 11:05 AM
| QUOTE (Brett W @ Jul 26 2005, 08:40 AM) |
| There is about a 20lb difference in the two doors. Early doors empty and late doors empty weight about 25 and 45 respectively. |
I have both. I'll weigh them tonight.
Posted by: Brett W Jul 26 2005, 11:10 AM
And I the same.
Posted by: nebreitling Jul 26 2005, 11:15 AM
| QUOTE (Randal @ Jul 26 2005, 09:04 AM) |
| From the PCA rule book: Glass: The car must have full windows (glass or Plexiglas). Windows don't have to be glass. |
exactly. although plexiglass would be crazy -- why do they write that? you want polycarbonate, obviously.
Posted by: Randal Jul 26 2005, 11:22 AM
| QUOTE |
| polycarbonate |
Available at TAP plastics
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 11:24 AM
Use Surane Wrap.
Posted by: redshift Jul 26 2005, 11:26 AM
I was going to ask if anyone had seen those snap-on canvas doors?
Camel looks great, on a black, or green car.
M
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 11:31 AM
Visqueen and duct tape.
Posted by: Mueller Jul 26 2005, 11:33 AM
| QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jul 25 2005, 07:26 PM) |
| Anyone have ideas on sources for lightweight 914 doors that would allow stock door handles and windows to work? How much weight can be saved by going from 1974 to earlier doors? |
am I the only crazy person that has thought to have 2 sets of doors....1 "normal/safe" set for street and 1 extra-lite "race/auto-x" only doors???
of course a better/quicker method of R&R'ing them would make it easier........
Posted by: neo914-6 Jul 26 2005, 12:22 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 26 2005, 09:33 AM) | ||
am I the only crazy person that has thought to have 2 sets of doors....1 "normal/safe" set for street and 1 extra-lite "race/auto-x" only doors??? of course a better/quicker method of R&R'ing them would make it easier........ |
No I thought about it too since I have both sets
Quick release hinges (with needle bearings)!
Posted by: J P Stein Jul 26 2005, 12:39 PM
Complete late door......bathroom scale, 64lbs.
Totaly stripped (including inner panel) early door 20 lbs.
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 12:47 PM
My fiberglass door skin.....5 pounds 
P
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 06:46 PM
I weighed my collection of doors tonight.
They are as follows:
This is a empty LATE door. Beam cut out, no handles, no glass, no nothing.
21 pounds.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 06:48 PM
Late door WITH beam and latch. No handles, glass etc, etc.
39 pounds
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 06:51 PM
EARLY door with everything (including the inner panel and handles which were not on when this pic was taken)
45 pounds
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 06:55 PM
This means:
a. late door with all the pieces is pretty darn heavy.
b. early door stripped out would be pretty darn light.
c. I have four doors for sale. PM me.
Paul
Posted by: SLITS Jul 26 2005, 07:00 PM
| QUOTE (URY914 @ Jul 26 2005, 05:55 PM) |
| This means: a. late door with all the pieces is pretty darn heavy. b. early door stripped out would be pretty darn light. c. I have four doors for sale. PM me. Paul |
I assume these doors came from the highly touted 914 Limo
Posted by: grantsfo Jul 26 2005, 07:06 PM
| QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jul 26 2005, 09:15 AM) | ||
exactly. although plexiglass would be crazy -- why do they write that? you want polycarbonate, obviously. |
I just love the rule book. Especially when it comes to wheels in Fm. You have to reference two differnt sections to figure out that 8" wheels are legal with DOT rated R compound tires.
I'll have to dig into the rule book. I'm prety handy with my grinder and my dremel. I'm thinking I could knock some weight out of the existing doors and keep them FM or GM legal. I was just thinking if there is a resource for reskined doors that will keep me in FM or GM classes I'd like to stay at that level of now. Seems like a good group of us are commited to FM ior new equivelent n Nor Cal so maybe I'll be a good boy and stay with class specs.
Posted by: trekkor Jul 26 2005, 07:35 PM
Uh, guys...Look at page 23 of the 2005 Zone 7 PCA competition series code book.
Line item g) clearly states: "Glass: The car must have full glass ( no plexiglass windows ) ".
Sorry to burst your bubble... 
KT
Posted by: Randal Jul 26 2005, 07:44 PM
It depends upon your your category within your class: If you're running Street Modified then you can use plexiglass as outlined below. And if that rule didn't apply then everyone running race tires would have to go back to 205's.
4.6 STREET MODIFIED CATEGORY
Purpose: This is a category for highly modified cars that are still driven on the street. Basically anything goes.
Batteries: Any battery may be used.
Tires:
Street tires: Any street tire/wheel combination may be used. Tires must be DOT approved.
Race Tires: Race tires may be used, but may not be mounted on wheels wider than seven (7) inches or one inch wider than stock, whichever is greater. This leaves open the possibility of cars being competitive on very large street tires.
Interior: The car must have full upholstery, carpeting and two seats. This keeps the category separate from the Modified Category.
Fuel Tank Location: Fuel tanks/cells may be relocated, but not into the passenger compartment.
Porsche: The chassis, engine and transmission must be Porsche.
Glass: The car must have full windows (glass or Plexiglas).
Electrical: Headlights, taillights, brake lights and turn signals must work.
Induction System: Twin turbos may be used. Fuel mixture may be any injection or carburetion system. These changes are not permitted in the Production Category due to high costs.
Engine Parts: Different cams may be used. Any brand pistons and cylinders are permitted. These changes are not permitted in the Production Category due to high costs.
Gears, Ring & Pinion: Different gears and/or ring & pinion may be used. These changes are not permitted in the Production Category due to high costs, and to maintain the integrity of the classes.
Tails, Wings, Airdams: Any tail, wing or airdam is permitted. The rear device may not obstruct rear vision.
Brake Bias Valves: Any brake bias valve may be used.
Suspension Struts: Any suspension strut may be used.
Camber: Camber settings are free.
Welding/Machining: Suspension modifications through welding or machining are permitted.
Brakes: Any caliper and/or rotor may be used.
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 07:45 PM
| QUOTE (URY914 @ Jul 26 2005, 10:47 AM) |
| My fiberglass door skin.....5 pounds P |
I stand corrected.
I just weighed the door I made for Joe and it's 4 pounds.
Posted by: Randal Jul 26 2005, 07:57 PM
FM is an Advanced Class for Street Modified Cars as outlined previously.
http://www.pca-ggr.org/show.cgi?id=ggrrb5
Check out the web site, scroll down to "Advanced Classes."
Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 26 2005, 08:01 PM
Last time I cut a door brace out, I *thought* it weighed close to 12lbs.
I read through everything posted and didnt see a door beam listed weighed out.
B
Posted by: URY914 Jul 26 2005, 08:19 PM
| QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Jul 26 2005, 06:01 PM) |
| Last time I cut a door brace out, I *thought* it weighed close to 12lbs. I read through everything posted and didnt see a door beam listed weighed out. B |
Brad, you mean just the weight of the beam?
I don't have the beam I cut out anymore, so I can't weigh it now.
P
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 26 2005, 08:41 PM
| QUOTE (URY914 @ Jul 26 2005, 05:45 PM) | ||
I stand corrected. I just weighed the door I made for Joe and it's 4 pounds. |
Whoo Hooo!
I just Love Street mod. it's perfect for a car tuner like me. Infact I just buttoned up my side shift transaxle tonight. Flipped 5th. new synchros and seals. I just can't wait to get that swapped out.
Posted by: Randal Jul 26 2005, 08:52 PM
| QUOTE |
| Last time I cut a door brace out, I *thought* it weighed close to 12lbs. |
Wasn't the purpose side impact, so it had to be beefy.
Posted by: brant Jul 27 2005, 09:14 AM
I'm sure my bathroom scale isn't perfectly calibrated...
but we put extra holes into the leading edge and into the hinges:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: brant Jul 27 2005, 09:15 AM
We also took a sanding disc and cleaned off all of the spray on undercoater that is typically inside the door cavity. Then added extra holes to the bottom edge of the door.
came out to 17lbs according to my non scientific scale:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 27 2005, 10:15 AM
Dang Brant that sweet, But even Street mod will baulk at that. 
Posted by: brant Jul 27 2005, 10:52 AM
thanks...
its built to vintage rules and they mostly care that the panel remain metal... thus the reason I couldn't go fiberglass on any body panels.
heck, once you put the aluminum door panels on you don't notice the holes any longer:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: brant Jul 27 2005, 10:53 AM
passenger side:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: URY914 Jul 27 2005, 11:03 AM
You cut away more than I did.
Good clean job
Posted by: brant Jul 27 2005, 01:11 PM
Thanks paul,
dad spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to cut it away and also cut away as much as possible.
brant
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