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Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 11:06 AM

New to the forum and the car. Was pointed to it by an aficionado on The Samba— I have a ‘59 Karmann Ghia. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=723793

He suggested that the people on this forum were the brain trust for all things 914 and that I should vet one here that has caught my eye on BAT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-113/

Any insight would be appreciated!

Posted by: Bullethead Aug 9 2023, 11:24 AM

Nice looking car... there's plenty of time to put eyes on it by arranging a PPI. And congrats on your lowlight, that is a beautiful example. Good infection! I see you took the same approach with that purchase.

Owned by a member here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=membervins&action=view&viewid=21814

Posted by: jdamiano Aug 9 2023, 01:04 PM

Great pictures. Show the good and the bad. Overall it looks like a great car. Seats, wheels and muffler not original but otherwise looks like an honest original example of one of the most desirable year and trim cars. Anything under 30k would be a bargain and 40k would not be a surprise. Someone here might know the car or be willing to check it out in person for you.

Posted by: Shivers Aug 9 2023, 01:52 PM

Looks like most everything is there. From the pictures It looks very nice. My pause was the license plate, but I am not seeing rusticles hanging down. They are one ton of fun...Hope you join us.

Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 02:02 PM

Haha, yes I took the same tack as it previously yielded such great fruit!
Thanks for your response and kind words.
Yes, I would be interested in hearing from anyone in the Scottsdale area who would be willing to look it over (for a fee of course). A couple of my knowledgeable friends believe it took a blow to the front end. I would be interested to know the ramifications of that impact. The seller is amenable to such an inspection and is even willing to put it up on a lift!

Posted by: Root_Werks Aug 9 2023, 02:03 PM

Looks like a nice 914 for sure. Would get a PPI on it if possible.

Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 02:06 PM

Thanks for your input. I am a novice in things 914 but not a total uninitiate. Had the use of my mother-in-laws when they were new!


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Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 02:08 PM

Yes, am very interested in having it looked at— is there some sort of “bat signal” I need to flash in the sky?

Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 02:09 PM

What a welcoming post— I do hope to bid my way into this forum soon!

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 9 2023, 02:10 PM

I was unable to see the Ghia, but I'm sure she's cool and yes, find a decent (solid) 914 and join the club. How do things look when you remove the rocker covers? That often tells a good tale

Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 02:48 PM

Here’s a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN5Zu5elq3s of the ‘59 Ghia.

I brought it back to 6 volts:




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Posted by: Craigers17 Aug 9 2023, 03:42 PM

.....maybe you don't need a 914.....you might just need more cowbell?

But I digress, in all seriousness....Welcome!....Nice Ghia!!!

I agree with your assessment that the car has been hit in the front. The front of the hood doesn't quite sit right, and if you look at the pics in the 160 to 180 range, you will see several pics of the frunk where the semicircular sheet metal that surrounds the spare looks damaged. At the point where it joins the fender wells at the back of that semicircle, you can see where the welds just don't look right. You can also see some waves in those areas.....likely where it buckled, at least slightly when it was impacted.

Just my 2 cents. Still alot to like with that particular car. Good luck!

Posted by: fasthonda Aug 9 2023, 05:05 PM

You will pay a premium on BAT. Plenty of nice cars offered for sale on this site for a lot less.

Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 05:31 PM

I am wondering what more cowbell could possibly mean…

Thanks for the kind words and information.
So I gather that a bump in the front does not necessarily make this car a no go. Seems prudent to see what the ramifications of that hit were though before bidding.

Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 05:32 PM

Yes, I have been warned about this. That said, I do not see a comparable 2.0 in the classifieds at the moment.

Posted by: Craigers17 Aug 9 2023, 05:51 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa9Zg6yGlQ4

Or the full version:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cVsQLlk-T0s

Posted by: mgarrison Aug 9 2023, 06:20 PM

I'm in the East Valley (Chandler, AZ) not far from Scottsdale, but I'm not sure I can really add much value beyond what has already been pointed out. I've never driven/ridden in a 914, so no help with what it should feel like, etc.

I personally would focus on the front end hit/damage. It really doesn't look right, or like it was repaired well.

Here's the same areas of my '74 for reference. You can clearly see it almost looks like a new "half-circle" support was welded in - the support that wraps around the spare tire. It really doesn't look correct to my eyes! I'd be asking a lot of questions about the damage & repair




Just a thought - the PMS work on the car was just in July. Might be worth trying to call PMS and see what they can tell you about the car. Mr. Patrick took a good 20min to chat with me when I just purchased some fiberglass flares from them...

Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 07:06 PM

Hahaha! I DO know that. Just never associated it to my fever.

Posted by: trylon Aug 9 2023, 07:09 PM

Thanks for taking the time to reply— very helpful. I do see how it should look. Guess I am hoping that it is price damper and not a deal breaker.

Posted by: Racer Aug 10 2023, 06:41 AM

5 bolt hubs achieved by drilling out the standard 4-bolt hubs, vs a true swap to 911 front end. Related, you will see the spare mounted in the front trunk is a 4-bolt wheel.. so it wont fit if you get a flat. you will need another 5-bolt wheel

And yes, looks like some front end damage at one point. I was wondering why the front trunk alignment with the bumper seemed a tad off.

Pretty green paint. Photographs well.. There are worse places to start.

Posted by: Shivers Aug 10 2023, 07:08 AM

From the seller...“FYI, the original set of 4 lug wheels will be available to the buyer, if they want them, and there is a 5th 5 lug matching Fuch that will replace the spare wheel that is in there now.”

Posted by: trylon Aug 10 2023, 04:49 PM

Thanks for your input. It seems that the forum is leaning on the “play” side.
I have contacted the seller about the likely hit in the front end and he said that he would attempt to have a shop look at it and give an opinion regarding how far the damage propagated. I know, it’s his stomping grounds but it would be good to hear from someone about it. The seller seems very cooperative and communicative.

Posted by: TRS63 Aug 11 2023, 06:18 AM

Welcome here, one more ghia addict on 914world! Good luck finding yours, those 914s are such great car, love mine !

Bests

Antoine

Posted by: mgarrison Aug 11 2023, 08:34 AM

I believe the under body dimensions would be more critical (suspension mounting points), but not sure how to measure those on an assembled chassis. Here are the only dimensions I see in the manual related to the area in question, that would be simple to try and measure/compare against factory dimensions.



Hope that helps...

If you need an impartial person to measure/look at it in person, I'd probably have time this weekend if the car is available - just PM me.

Mike

Posted by: trylon Aug 11 2023, 10:11 AM

Ha! Why didn’t I realize I would not be the only crossover.

Posted by: trylon Aug 11 2023, 10:13 AM

Thanks Mike!
It WOULD be fantastic if you could check out this car— and the timing would be perfect, auction ends Tuesday. Will pm you…

Posted by: trylon Aug 13 2023, 01:59 PM

Another possibility just came up on BAT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1976-porsche-914-77/

Comments appreciated!

Posted by: Porschef Aug 13 2023, 02:25 PM

Looks like a nice unmolested car. Frustrating over-redundancy with the pics, none of them really showing the critical areas of the car. Longs, ears, hell hole and like that. Being sold by a dealer so they probably have no clue. Or, they do...

That said, it could be very solid, just hard to know. 75-76 have the emissions regulated exhausts that make the engine run hotter and rob some power. That can be backdated as long as you’re not in Kalifornia. It’ll also have the gauge display with the EGR and CAT lights on it. Not a big deal.

Again, as long as it’s solid, seems like it’s worth a look. Would be worth a PPI. If’n it was a little closer...

HTH

Posted by: Porschef Aug 13 2023, 02:36 PM

Wait, I see you’re in Connecticut. Take a drive!

Posted by: trylon Aug 13 2023, 02:56 PM

Yes, it’s just over the border from me— I already have an inquiry in to the seller for a visit!

I clearly will pour over it and take the missing photos for comment. Is there a non-destructive way of removing the rocker covers? Don’t rivets have to be popped?

Really nice to know I can peel off some of the emissions stuff!

I am going to look closely at this one— already a bargin in that I could just drive it home!

Thanks!

Posted by: Front yard mechanic Aug 13 2023, 04:10 PM

Come on don’t blow this for us Gene

Posted by: Porschef Aug 13 2023, 04:12 PM

If they’ll let you, you can remove (possibly) the cheesehead screws on the bottom of the rocker along with the little nut and bolt front and rear. Pulling it out slightly should give you a strong indication whether or not further investigation is necessary. Otherwise just lay next to the car and have a look, if they don’t have a lift available.

But start with the battery tray and support, and of course the hell hole.

Enjoy

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 14 2023, 02:52 AM

its a type 4 ghia mate.

thats why i was on to it back in 89.
without being an arse dragger.

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 14 2023, 02:56 AM

i'd check it out and take a close look.
its got an original factory installed windscreen.
might be something to it.

and its a 76. last of the line.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 14 2023, 04:58 AM

Basically a "must have" when looking at these. Take your time, because this tells much about the state of structure with the 914. If the screws come out(often they are rusted in) and the underside (structure) looks good, you are off to the races

Posted by: trylon Aug 15 2023, 12:55 PM

Whelp, looks like I’m officially a member of this club now!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-113/

Posted by: windforfun Aug 15 2023, 01:12 PM

Congratulations. Sweet ride. Welcome to the consortium.

Posted by: campbellcj Aug 15 2023, 01:21 PM

Congrats, I love green 914s - hope it works out well and brings tons of fun times!

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 15 2023, 01:24 PM

welcome to the madness, btw: great looking ride, enjoy her in good health

Posted by: Porschef Aug 15 2023, 01:53 PM

Very pretty, congratulations!

Did you happen to have a look at the red ‘76?

Posted by: BillJ Aug 15 2023, 01:57 PM

I think that may end up being a really nice car! Welcome to the club.

Posted by: era vulgaris Aug 15 2023, 02:18 PM

I said it over on The Samba and I'll say it again here...congrats on the buy! This is seriously the best group of folks here on 914world. Any questions you have with the car, you've got an unbeatable knowledge base here. Enjoy the ride!

Posted by: trylon Aug 15 2023, 08:24 PM

Thanks all for your kind, welcoming spirit!
It is gratifiying that there seems to be a consensus that this just might turn out to be a fun car. Even my son, decidedly not a car person, is excited.

I will make the same deal here that I made three years ago on The Samba concerning my Karmann Ghia — Entertainment for Enlightenment.

If past experience is any guide, I am going to need it.

Michael

Posted by: trylon Aug 15 2023, 08:25 PM

Never made it— the seller has set aside a single day for visitation and it has yet to arrive.

Posted by: Shivers Aug 16 2023, 01:22 AM

congratulations!!!

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 16 2023, 02:49 AM

well done.

welcome to the totally evolved ghia - you are officially a graduate without having to resort to other questionable continental educative possibilities.

Posted by: trylon Aug 17 2023, 11:10 AM

Car officially bought and paid for, booked pickup/delivery!

Let the games begin.

So, as the big west coast shows are on, delivery is going to be a bit slower than usual. That said, would love to start discussing what I should do when it arrives.

It seems to be in decent driving shape so, yeah, will be posting driving videos sooner rather than later. But I want to make sure the car is safe. One thing that is already causing me the heebie jeebies is the thought of half century old plastic fuel lines. Yikes!
Try as I might I can not figure out if this has been addressed or not in the car by the photos provided. Can anyone help me determine this?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-113/

Posted by: Shivers Aug 17 2023, 11:21 AM

I zoomed in and it looks like plastic. You can see it coming out of the firewall to a rubber hose. Have a look when you get it home. I’d service the CVs and make sure the boots are good. And if it were me I’d also service the shift rod system. It has bushings that wear out at the worst times.

Posted by: rjames Aug 17 2023, 11:24 AM

I can't tell from the photos, but you can easily check by opening the access panel between the seats, or just check where the fuel comes in through the firewall on the passenger's side. I wouldn't worry that they are suddenly going to crumble. They are pretty robust and I think I've only seen one example where they ended up being brittle when removed. Still a worthy upgrade though.

Looks like you may be missing the decel valve, too. Plenty of people run without one, but having it will reduce stress on the MPS.

Beautiful car. Congrats.

Posted by: krazykonrad Aug 17 2023, 11:29 AM

Looks like you got a pretty sweet deal.

Posted by: Jamie Aug 17 2023, 11:57 AM

Original plastic fuel lines are in place, and the inlet hoses for the heater blower are missing. I suggest that you will want some heat/defrost during winter on the east coast!

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 17 2023, 12:33 PM

A bit of heat/defrost is a nice luxury and generally simple to get going. I used the defrost this morning here in sunny Buffalo

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 07:03 AM

Ha, yeah that’s about how I feel!
Thanks!

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 07:05 AM

Yes, this was the Ghia replacement wasn’t it?!
Fun to have to have an early one and a late one.

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 07:06 AM

Thanks for the suggestions.

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 07:08 AM

Thanks!
I think I am also missing what the heck a decel valve is! Will look into it…

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 07:10 AM

Happily that seems to be the consensus.

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 07:18 AM

I wonder why the blower has been taken out of the loop. Might a comment on BAT postulating a failing exhaust and fumes in the cab might have something to do with it.

Yes, if I recall it does become somewhat chilly in Connecticut in the winter.
Unfortunately it also becomes somewhat salty.

This brings up a point that I would love to hear the forums reaction to:
Dare I run this 914 year round?
What would be required to do so?

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2023, 07:24 AM

Only if you want to see it turn to rust before your eyes

Posted by: flipb Aug 18 2023, 07:38 AM

Like many classic cars, they don't like to sit. I always find my 914 has more issues after sitting for a long while. I try to drive it at least once every 6 weeks or so -- way more when the weather is nice. I'll drive it year-round, but salt/brine road treatment means an extended stay in the garage until it's all washed away by rains.

Posted by: sarivers2001 Aug 18 2023, 03:09 PM

Congrats!! I bought the orange one that sold on BaT a couple of weeks earlier. I think you got a really good deal (or I got rooked). Or both...

Posted by: sarivers2001 Aug 18 2023, 03:16 PM

That red '76 looks gorgeous!

Posted by: Root_Werks Aug 18 2023, 03:24 PM

Congrats! Will be very curious to get your impression of the 914 after you get to drive it etc.



Seems like a decent deal to me.

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 03:49 PM

Am always curious about this. Hypothetically, what might be done to mitigate this?

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 03:51 PM

I am way too new to the car to offer any comment on this.
That said, I was prepared to go higher…

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 03:52 PM

Yes, looking forward to sharing that.
But as the west coast car shows are wrapping up, have been told that its going to be a wait.

Posted by: era vulgaris Aug 18 2023, 04:28 PM

Deceleration valve. It's not necessary in order to drive the car. Early cars didn't have it. Not sure exactly when it was added, but my 72 did have it so it was at least added by 72. It's an emissions item, that routes air around the throttle plate when you're off throttle. It lowers emissions, and reduces how quickly RPMs come down when stopping. And it also supposedly lengthens the life of the MPS diaphragm. If you can track one down, I think it'd be worth adding.

Pulled this pic from the Delphi Green 2.0 that's on BAT right now. The decel valve has the 3 hoses coming out of it, and it's mounted right above the MPS (manifold pressure sensor).


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Posted by: 930cabman Aug 18 2023, 04:41 PM

I never take any sporting machine out when rain is in the forecast and they all are tucked away in dry storage for the winter. Do not run this beauty in the NE winter months, please.

Winter beater is the answer (bar car)

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 04:44 PM

Oh man, there’s definitely more stuff on this engine than our 36hp.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2023, 06:04 PM

Nothing hypothetical - there is no preventing the accelerated corrosion due to salt.

There are too many nooks and crannies for the salt to get into and to do its work. Even under the best of circumstances, 914’s corrode from the inside out.

These cars were built in an era before galvaneal steel and e-coating inside body cavities was a thing. In addition they are largely built using steel that is 0.8 - 1.0mm thick. That is what makes them light weight. It also means that it doesn’t take very long for rust to grab hold and to perforate panels.

Due to the nature of the enclosed body sections (longitudinals, sail panels, and rear bulkhead box section), it is almost impossible to get 100% coverage of any sort of body cavity wax or rust inhibitor.

If you drive it in the winter, on salt & slush roads, you will severely devalue what you have purchased.

Posted by: trylon Aug 18 2023, 07:07 PM

Pretty much the story I have heard for the ‘59 Karmann Ghia as well.
Thanks for the confirmation.

Posted by: theer Aug 18 2023, 08:04 PM

Another New England 914! I also have a Ghia. Maybe we’ll start a trend.

Welcome to the madness. Keep an eye out for the Northeast Gathering next Summer. Would be great to see you and your new toy.

Posted by: trylon Aug 19 2023, 02:48 PM

Thanks!
Northeast Gathering sounds fun.

Posted by: Porschef Aug 20 2023, 06:22 AM

Roads aren’t that much different here across the Sound, well, probably worse but that’s another story. My rule is that the car stays in the garage once that brine nonsense goes down (like when there’s a whisper of possible snowfall ) till usually some time in mid March when heavy rains wash all that crap away.

If you see any white residue on the road, keep it in the garage.

Posted by: trylon Aug 20 2023, 09:38 AM

Oh, I know all this as you might suspect. Just trying to push the envelope haha. I am already looking for winter storage…

Posted by: trylon Aug 20 2023, 09:39 AM

So, I love manuals.
What’s the Bentley Blue Book of 914s?

Posted by: Porschef Aug 20 2023, 11:11 AM

Don’t think I’ve ever seen one. Got one for an Etype, if’n anyone needs it...

Posted by: trylon Aug 20 2023, 02:12 PM

I guess what I mean is what equivalent publication might there be.

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 20 2023, 03:56 PM

you can download factory manuals here.
better than the old diy haynes etc.

http://p914-6info.net/Manuals.htm

Posted by: jhynesrockmtn Aug 20 2023, 04:18 PM

Congrats. That seemed like a decent price.

They all need something. I somewhat accidentally bought a BB on BAT last august. It is a solid car and I think I did ok, but starting with replacing plastic fuel lines and knowing the car had sat a lot for 20 plus years has lead to a whole lot of taking apart and putting back together with new parts. It's like pulling the thread on a sweater :-)

Best of luck with yours. I love the color! Enjoy :-)

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 20 2023, 04:58 PM

"somewhat accidently" nice try

How did the explanation to the wife go. ??

Posted by: trylon Aug 21 2023, 07:05 AM

Wow! Perfect, thanks!

Posted by: trylon Aug 21 2023, 07:06 AM

Thanks. Was going to pass and look for one with fewer issues but it went for so little I can afford to deal with them now!

Best of luck with your sweater pull!

Posted by: trylon Aug 21 2023, 12:07 PM

So, could a 914 pass an emissions test today? Not that this one has to!

Posted by: Shivers Aug 21 2023, 12:18 PM

If all the parts are there. This is mine and no it won’t.

Posted by: JamesM Aug 21 2023, 02:42 PM

I never had issues getting mine to pass. Stopped testing them a few years ago when i converted all my cars to vintage plates because $10/year registration is better than $100/yr + emission testing fees when you have 10 cars. Every once in a while I had issues with old gas if the car sat the whole year between testing but run the tank down and it was good on fresh gas.

Posted by: trylon Aug 21 2023, 03:15 PM

That is pretty impressive that 50 year old tech can still pull that off!

On another note: 914 is getting picked up from AZ tomorrow or Wednesday!

Posted by: jhynesrockmtn Aug 21 2023, 05:32 PM

Well, lucky for me in some ways, this is my 2nd marriage, and my car addiction came with me into the relationship. She can't argue too much with a purchase like this, but there was an eye roll or two :-)

Posted by: iankarr Aug 22 2023, 12:20 AM

Welcome to the addiction! Great looking car at a great price. Can't wait to hear your first impressions. I've made a bunch of 914 videos and a series for newbies which you may find helpful. Link in my signature below. Enjoy!

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 22 2023, 05:46 AM

So long as you are hooked on cars, most likely you won't be hanging in bars and chasing broads.

Posted by: trylon Aug 22 2023, 04:12 PM

Thanks Ian— believe it or not I have already watched every one of your newbie videos!
Informative and man do you have a great delivery!

914 being picked up in AZ today!
Stay tuned…

Posted by: trylon Aug 23 2023, 07:59 AM

Got some CT plates from ‘73.

Joyful Highway Breakdown

Posted by: trylon Aug 23 2023, 11:34 AM

Now all I need is a car to put this stuff in. (Thanks Eric!)

ETA 7 days!

Posted by: Jamie Aug 23 2023, 12:12 PM

Lucky find with the plates, are they legal for use on the car in your state when it arrives? I know Historic Vehicle plates are available in most states and allow tax breaks, but must be displayed on the back while driving.

Posted by: trylon Aug 23 2023, 05:48 PM

Yes, in CT they are called Year of Manufacture plates. You have to register the car, get antique vehicle plates, and submit application for the YOM plates. You have to have the antique vehicle plates in the car at all times.

I don’t know why the state goes through all these hoops for classic car owners— guess they must have clout!

Posted by: trylon Aug 25 2023, 08:01 AM

Don’t plan on driving in the rain…



… but the best laid schemes…

Posted by: trylon Sep 1 2023, 07:49 PM

Car to be delivered Sunday!

Posted by: Jett Sep 2 2023, 08:23 AM

Nice car and excited for you.

We bought a 73 1.7 many years ago and the heater tubes were not connected, so I did. On the first drive to work I discovered that the heat exchangers had an internal leak and even when closing the heater vents it still smoked me out. Bought a new set of HEs from a member, installed new heater control boxes/valves, and then drove the car for almost a year before the oily smell that had formed in the longs (tubing) had dissipated.

Love the car and heat

Love the color btw!

Posted by: trylon Sep 3 2023, 04:12 PM

Thanks for the kind words as well as the words of wisdom.
Yes, pretty sure there is a reason that the blower motor hose is not present.
Will take all additions and repairs slowly…

Posted by: trylon Sep 3 2023, 04:13 PM

It’s here!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoljKD2wMtY

Posted by: emerygt350 Sep 3 2023, 04:17 PM

Ian's videos are fantastic. Highly recommend.

Lovely car from the video.

Posted by: 930cabman Sep 3 2023, 07:09 PM

Looks sweet, is she a Palma Green?

Posted by: FlacaProductions Sep 3 2023, 07:58 PM

Very nice - complete with the cool mechanical Kienzle console clock.

Posted by: trylon Sep 4 2023, 07:02 AM

Thanks!

Yes, Ian is a natural educator! That was once said regarding me — I know one when I see it!

Posted by: trylon Sep 4 2023, 07:34 AM

It’s a repaint.
I think it tries to replicate the Zambezi Green original though.

[Huh, surprised the photo came in as landscape mode, it’s portrait mode on my end.]


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Posted by: trylon Sep 4 2023, 07:37 AM

I know so little about this car I would never have noticed!
Thanks!

btw: clock doesn’t seem to be working

Posted by: trylon Sep 4 2023, 07:48 AM

So have had a couple of illegal (so short) jaunts in the car.
First impression:

Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship!

I had forgotten the feeling of driving a top down (well, top off) true sports car—
this automobile gives that feeling in spades!

I was in the market for a car around the same time that this ‘73 was new and, much to the chagrin of a friend, bought an MGB-GT. After that car, many Miatas, and an Audi TTS, I now see why he was unhappy with my choice.

My only consolation is that I have left this pleasure to a time of my life where I have the time to really enjoy it!

Posted by: trylon Sep 4 2023, 09:40 AM

Second impresssion:

WOW!

I think this is going to be the most fun car I have ever owned!

Posted by: trylon Sep 4 2023, 09:51 AM

So looking a bit deeper into the front bumper alignment issue:
[last photo has turned on it side on its own]



So it seems that the bumper is about a 1/4” too low or the body is 1/4” bent.
Is there any up/down adjustment in those bolts? Seems like the odd bottom one only permits left/right and, if so, that would set the bumper’s height.

Posted by: Shivers Sep 4 2023, 10:23 AM

Hello. Here are some pics. Note the steel sleeves and the “dog bone “. The sleeves fit through the holes in the body. So there’s not much movement. I’d pull the bumper off and see if maybe just proper hardware is needed.

Posted by: trylon Sep 4 2023, 10:40 AM

Well, that’s wildly different isn’t it. Thanks for taking the time to set me straight.
Strikes me that the bumper must be missing its studs. Sheared off in the front end collision?
Huh, just saw a photo of bumper attachment hardware — is this what is needed?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2353916

In gathering info mode at the moment. Might be fun to actually drive it a bit this season before pulling things apart.

btw: here is the other side:

Posted by: Shivers Sep 4 2023, 11:19 AM

When you’re ready maybe check with the dudes at 914rubber.com I see they have the dog bones, they may have the rest if you need it.

https://914rubber.com/early-bumper-spacer-dog-bone-for-porsche-914

Heck yeah go drive it like you stole it

Posted by: TRS63 Sep 5 2023, 01:22 AM

Happy you got it now, you will love it !
Antoine

Posted by: trylon Sep 5 2023, 04:28 AM

Yes, I have ordered a pair of dog bones. Not quite sure yet what else I need to bring this connection back to stock.

If I get caught without a registration, I think they just might think I did steal it!
I’m looking at a map to see if there are any off the beaten track roads I don’t know about. I am itching to drive this thing!

Posted by: Porschef Sep 5 2023, 04:59 AM

Congratulations! Looks great

PM sent

Posted by: trylon Sep 5 2023, 07:31 AM

Snuck a ride on hilly, windy backroads— I think this is the car I have been searching for all my life!

Posted by: flipb Sep 5 2023, 07:37 AM

A well-sorted 914 on hilly, windy roads is highly effective therapy for a huge variety of ailments and psychological problems.

Posted by: trylon Sep 5 2023, 08:34 AM

So funny you say that, just got over a 6 week bout of some indeterminate bug and that ride did wonders for my post-viral syndrome!

Posted by: Porschef Sep 5 2023, 09:22 AM

Indeed you’re fortunate to have pretty immediate access to some great roads up there in God’s country.

For me, just the thought getting off this overcrowded sandbar just gives me angst...

Enjoy it!

Posted by: Shivers Sep 5 2023, 09:48 AM

The worm has definitely turned for you. It is amazing how a short drive can change your perspective. Sliding in behind the wheel, turning the key and surveying the gauges. Fuel pump stopped making pressure, blurp the throttle and turn the key...All is well with the world

Glendora mountain road, where I grew up

Posted by: trylon Sep 5 2023, 02:15 PM

Oh, don’t you just see a little double 914 jaunt sometime in our future?

Posted by: trylon Sep 5 2023, 02:19 PM

Yeah, we don’t have those kind of roads on this coast.
That said, the mountain roads above LA is where I had my first 914 experience!

Posted by: BillJ Sep 5 2023, 02:19 PM

Take note of things that bug you while you drive the heck out of it. My advice is drive it as much as you can for at least 6 months before diving into projects. This of course is aside from anything that NEEDS to be be done for safety and such.

Enjoy it first if everything is pretty sorted, which it looks like it is. Have fun man. Pretty car.

Posted by: eric9144 Sep 5 2023, 03:48 PM

Congratulations! Fun to watch this play out from auction to delivery.

Cool too that you are already getting started on some of the little detail stuff, I find those to the be the therapeutic fixes, replacing rubber and small detail stuff like the 'press' stickers on the seatbelts get you into playing with the cars and getting to know them without really going down mechanical rabbit holes, like everyone else says, get out enjoy it and drive it!

Posted by: trylon Sep 6 2023, 05:34 AM

Yes! The car seems remarkable sorted and ready to drive. And I plan to keep it that way for the rest of the season, as short as it will be. That said, will take incremental steps towards factory fresh…

“Can’t repeat the past?! Of course you can, Old Sport!”

Posted by: trylon Sep 7 2023, 07:36 AM

Putting on some missing bits (tip o’ the hat to Eric).

Replaced broken roof retainers:


Reinstated missing door end caps:




Hmm, these flapping seals look suspiciously non-factory:




And it is now one step closer to being a CT car:

Posted by: Root_Werks Sep 7 2023, 10:36 AM

Looking good! Fun to work on the smaller details.

Posted by: mgarrison Sep 7 2023, 02:34 PM

Don't forget to get those plastic fuel lines replaced!

Posted by: trylon Sep 7 2023, 07:28 PM

Was first on my list though I must say someone on this site thought they might be less problematic than I feared. In any case, that’s going to be an off season project.

Thanks for the reminder Mike!

Posted by: trylon Sep 7 2023, 07:29 PM

Was told they were ‘easy wins’. Somehow satisfying just like the hard ones!

Posted by: trylon Sep 8 2023, 02:40 PM

More easy fixes with the 914.

Replaced missing door light switch gasket:




And whatever the heck these are called:



I think they needed it:



Pretty remarkable that all these pieces are available for this car!

Was also going to put in the rain tray (it’s pouring out right now haha).
But as I tested the screws that were supplied with it (and they seem to be original), they had that ‘I don’t want to go any further’ feel. I did not expect that, perhaps it’s just the repaint. I loathe forcing anything.

Posted by: wonkipop Sep 9 2023, 12:54 AM

there is a bit of a conversation about that in 914 1.8 originality thread.
its a mixture of different length screws which have to go in the correct place.
rubber block spacers are involved as well.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=357407&st=180


good looking car you got yourself.

Posted by: trylon Sep 9 2023, 07:22 AM

Ah ha, first rabbit hole!

My fav comment on the BAT auction: “That’s a lot of Porsche for wrist watch money!”

Posted by: trylon Sep 10 2023, 08:35 AM

Hey! My son can drive this car! Way too big for the Karmann Ghia.
Somewhat of an adventure as hasn’t driven a stick in years, didn’t know where the hand brake was, etc. As we bucked our way up the driveway he was afraid he broke the car. Ha ha.

Turns out the fuel gauge doesn’t work.

Out of gas luckily within pushing range of the barn!

Posted by: trylon Sep 13 2023, 10:25 AM

So getting closer to being registered— I want to address two safety issues: horn and brakes.

I got the laminated wiring diagram and see how the horns (I assume I have the optional second) are simply grounded with power coming from a relay that in turn is powered by grounding the horn button on the steering wheel. So I think I will be able to track down any wiring/relay problem and, as neither horn is sounding, that is what’s likely.

The brakes are just a bit odd to me. I am surprised that it takes more effort to stop the car, say, just rolling up to a stop sign than the drum brakes on my Karmann Ghia. They seemed to have checked out by the ‘once over’ shop before the 914 was put up for sale but I either need confirmation that this is right or I need to address it.

Posted by: Shivers Sep 13 2023, 01:07 PM

I looked at the auction and didn’t see anything about a 19mm M/C. But even then it should not take that much effort. Might want to have a look.

Posted by: Porschef Sep 13 2023, 01:16 PM

Pull off the fog light covers and check the horn leads for 12v assuming you have a MM

Then you can work your way back

Posted by: era vulgaris Sep 13 2023, 03:58 PM

Your scraper seal shouldn't be flopping out like that. The scraper should meet with the vertical window seal on the roll bar. I kind of overlapped the door end cap over the scraper seal, which gets rid of that little gap that can sometimes result if you try to make the scraper seal straight on flush with the door end cap. No leaks there when I washed the car!



As to your brakes...can you lock them up? Take it up to say 35mph, slam on the brakes as hard as you can, and see if all4 wheels lock. If you can't do that, then there is definitely something amiss. Maybe it just needs to be bled properly, or maybe something else is going on.

One common thing that people do is replace the stock 17mm MC with a 19mm MC from a 911. Doing this with stock calipers increases stopping power, but also increases pedal effort to do so. Does the car stop well and it just requires more effort than you're used to, or does it feel like it's not stopping even with alot of effort?

Posted by: trylon Sep 15 2023, 08:47 AM

So before I dig in deeper, just want to confirm that the bolts holding the horns on have a captured nut on the other side. I’ve learned much in my Karmann Ghia apprenticeship.



And while we are at it— what should be done about all the little surface rust patches? Just Ospho ‘em?

Posted by: trylon Sep 15 2023, 09:00 AM

Scraper seal:
Yeah, was pretty sure that wasn’t stock! Not sure what the PO was thinking but looks like I should replace them.

Brakes:
Haven’t tried the lock up test yet. And the car is garage-bound until I register it in a couple of weeks. Will attempt…

I don’t recall ever feeling brakes like these. As I am driving the car, don’t have to think about them at all—work great. I only notice something odd at stopping the car completely— yes, I can stop it but have to get my leg into it where, say, in my Ghia a bit of foot pressure will do. The 914 pedal does not have much travel, just needs more pressure. I am new to a classic car with disc brakes— they are ‘self-adjusting’ right?

Posted by: trylon Sep 15 2023, 09:13 AM

Fun to have a new car to discover!

It starts up sweetly but it always feels like I want to pull out the choke — but there is none!

Fell on Ian Karr’s (what a great name for someone with his passion) video about the auxiliary air valve (or some such name) that provides more air on startup and then closes down as the engine heats up. Though this seems to be the exact opposite of what a choke does (seems like it will lean up the mixture instead of enrich it— but what do I know about fuel injection), something I noticed seems to point to this as a possible suspect in the rough idle just after start-up:


The output hose is clearly crimped; air is always cut back from leaving this valve. Pulled it off the valve and tried to uncrimp it with no success. Will try new hose— can someone point me to what is needed? I always seem to lose at the trial and error method of car part purchasing.

Thanks all for your help!

Posted by: era vulgaris Sep 15 2023, 11:34 AM

I've never driven a 4-wheel drum Ghia, and it's been a while since I drove a Ghia and 914 back to back, but I do recall the Ghia having a softer pedal feel. Although both the 914's I owned had the 19mm MC installed from a 911 so they both would've had the harder pedal feel.
I don't know what your car driving experience background is, but performance brakes can often have a stiffer feel that requires more effort. Did you know Formula 1 brakes have so much stopping power they can exert 5G's of forward momentum on your body as the car stops? However, they require so much effort to push the pedal that ordinary people who don't weight train their legs, wouldn't be able to use them. Fun bit of trivia!

Yes, all disc brakes, powered or not, are self-adjusting.



The AAR produces a controlled vacuum leak. When you have a vacuum leak with Djet (which the 1.7 and 2.0 cars had) it will raise the idle. On a cold engine, this replicates the action of a choke, but there is a different set of factors happening.
So, btw, if you're ever suddenly idling at 2 or 3k rpm, it's because you have a vacuum leak. I recall coming off the highway once with the 72 1.7 I used to own, and found the car idling at 3k rpm! A little rubber elbow connector on one of the vacuum hoses had cracked and caused a vacuum leak.
On Ljet, on the other hand, which only the 1.8 cars had, a vacuum leak lowers the idle and will cause the car to stall.

It's not uncommon for the AAR to get stuck. You can pull the AAR from the car and bench test it with a 12V supply to see if the valve opens or not. If it doesn't, you can soak it overnight fully submerged in WD40 or PB blaster. I had to do that with the AAR on my 1.7 and it opened it right up.

Posted by: Porschef Sep 16 2023, 08:32 AM

The fronts are, however the rears are not, and need to have the clearance set via two Allen head screws held by the locknut. If you pull off a rear wheel you’ll see the outboard adjustment screw; that’s the easy one. The inboard gets adjusted via a tube in the trailing arm, who’s cap may or may not want to be removed. A little tricky, but not difficult to do.

Another bit of 914 quirkiness...

Posted by: trylon Sep 27 2023, 03:45 PM

Thanks for the information.

The car is now road legal!



Took it to Lime Rock on it’s maiden voyage.
This automobile is just so nice right out of the box. It is quite an experience driving this on the same roads that I drive the Karmann Ghia on. The handling and acceleration are night and day— I await the difficult parts of the road but find that they have passed by without notice! I could easily have no other car than the 914 if only they didn’t salt the roads around here.

Found these in the glove compartment:



The brakes seem fine to me now, I just think I had to get used to them. The right front one is a bit squeaky though.

Seems there is a Porsche shop in my town!
https://thethirdgarage.com/

Someone who works there stopped and said “what a clean 914!”. He asked to take a photo of it and told me about the shop (seems to be somewhat new in town). He said they could help me with anything but body work. I pointed out the kinked hose and the cold start problem. He suggested a hose clamp as it is on loose and he didn’t think the kink was enough to cause a problem.

The more I thought about it, the more I thought he got it wrong. I mean, if I had a constant vacuum leak, that might be the fix, but the car runs great, just a bit rough on cold start. I did an experiment— I pulled the hose off the valve so that it was open to the air and started the car. Yep, NOW I have a vacuum leak — and no rough cold start idle. So clearly the valve is stuck and needs to be soaked. It seems so daunting to try to get it out of that tight space though.


All said and done, this is really one sweet car!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 27 2023, 03:51 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=27514 - That is a beautiful car.

Posted by: emerygt350 Sep 27 2023, 04:49 PM

What a great find! I just saw an old ghia yesterday and had to stop to give it a close look. The glove box find is very nice. I didn't know I had mine for a couple days because it had all become part of the bottom of the glove box. Finding those were such a treat.

Posted by: Porschef Sep 28 2023, 07:34 AM

Looks great! Perfect place for your first drive

Posted by: Gint Sep 28 2023, 10:33 AM

If you click the link to view the full size picture, it will be right side up. The image resizer flips thumbnails sideways for some reason in some circumstances (picture source, etc...).

Beautiful 914! Cool to see a BAT 914 buyer on the forum posting after the purchase. Have fun!

Posted by: trylon Sep 28 2023, 03:16 PM

I am smitten.

It officially downgraded my local “Rollercoaster Road” to kiddie ride.

Posted by: Porschef Sep 28 2023, 06:50 PM

Haha, that’s what you get for buying a street legal go cart…

Posted by: wonkipop Sep 28 2023, 07:51 PM

yeah, sounds like a VW. drives like a lotus.

Posted by: trylon Sep 29 2023, 02:56 PM

Pieced together my best guess of a bit of the car’s history from bits of paper found in the glove compartment.

————
Owned by JT (Ontario, OR)

Sold at some point to WN (Eagle, ID) for $800 obo who subsequently did or had done the following sometime before selling it:

1. R and R fuel tank clean and re-seal.
2. Move fuel pump to the front.
3. Replace all fuel lines from the tank to the injectors including two new stainless lines from underneath to the engine bay.
4. Major service and replaced all vacuum lines and plug wires.
5. All four injectors were rebuilt.
6. Installed a Pertronix breakerless ignition.
7. Installed a new throttle switch.
8. Welded in a new jack support on the passenger side.
9. Welded in a new rear trunk hinge support.
10. Rebuilt both front calipers.
11. Installed a new master cylinder.
12. Replaced all four brake lines.
13. Installed a complete clutch package with flywheel seal. Flywheel was resurfaced.
14. New clutch cable and throttle cable.
15. Installed a new carpet kit from "914 Rubber" in Oregon.
16. Transmission oil change and replaced shift bushings.

Sold 9/14/18 to TK (Eagle, ID) for $18,500 with mileage of 102383 who had a pre-purchase inspection done as well as an oil and filter change. The fuel sender was replaced.

Consigned for sale to Southwest Vintage Motorcars, Phoenix, AZ who had a pre-selling inspection done.

1. repaired rear trunk latch
2. repaired windshield wipers
3. installed missing vacuum line
4. installed new tie rod ends
5. installed new battery and clamp
6. performed front end alignment
7. installed new seat adjuster handle

Sold 8/15/23 to MA (New Milford, CT) with bid of $25,000 on BAT https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-113/
————

Posted by: 930cabman Sep 30 2023, 05:43 AM

Great story and great history of the car. Enjoy in good health

Posted by: emerygt350 Sep 30 2023, 07:23 AM

You should snap a pic of the vacuum lines. I have zero faith in anyone hooking those up right outside of a few people on this forum.

Posted by: trylon Sep 30 2023, 08:55 PM

Thanks CM!
I realized I forgot to include the info on the official docs… will update and extend the story back to the original buyer!

Posted by: trylon Sep 30 2023, 08:55 PM

Ha! Well, I believe the last owner ~is~ a member of this forum, so maybe we’re ok on this.

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 2 2023, 05:25 AM

Maybe.... that aar hose doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

Posted by: trylon Oct 4 2023, 07:03 AM

Ok, will get some pics up for perusal.
Thanks for the interest!

Posted by: trylon Oct 4 2023, 07:04 AM

Dream car.
Dream house.

Posted by: 930cabman Oct 4 2023, 07:14 AM

Life is good

Posted by: trylon Oct 5 2023, 11:04 AM

Let me hasten to add that that dream house is not mine— but there is a glimmer of a possibility it might be!

Life would be good indeed!

Posted by: trylon Oct 6 2023, 09:27 AM

To flesh out history a bit more, a TC (associated with the United State Air Force Academy) bought the car in May ‘73 from Alpine Porsche-Audi in Colorado Springs.
The vehicle’s maintenance record book is stamped for every recommended service through 100,000! That milestone was reached in Nov. ‘82.
The dealership was new in ‘71.



I want one of those license plate surrounds!

Posted by: 930cabman Oct 6 2023, 01:38 PM

Might be asking for a bit much, but you never know

Search Ebay and the flea markets

I'm lucky to have a couple from Kelly's Porsche from the 1960's

Posted by: trylon Oct 7 2023, 12:19 PM

For your viewing enjoyment.
Glaring goofs?

[attachmentid=890
493]


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 7 2023, 03:22 PM

As always, nothing terrible but a ton of strangeness.
1) aar is hooked to the port for what I believe is the fuel tank vapor/carbon vent. That hose appears to be gone.
2) pcv should go from the flame blocking valve to that port on the air cleaner over by the relays (driver side). It is now hooked up where the aar is supposed to go.
3) the retard is confusing. It looks like a hose may wrap all the way around the engine. Can't tell where it goes in your picture. I think it is right though if you zoom in real close.
4) decel valve is completely gone. Many people don't have them. But it may be stressing your mps and cause early failure. The port on the plenum for it looks plugged. The port on the air cleaner is open.
5)pcv from oil filler to plenum looks good. However, the elbow is not stock. That should have two ports on it. The other port heads to the decel.
6) vent to the tin by the driver side is open/hose is missing.
7) heater ducting is gone.
8)rain tray collectors are missing.


Other than that it looks fine!

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 7 2023, 03:36 PM

And all of that is cheap and easy to make right. 914rubber is your friend. Except maybe the fuel tank venting hoses. Those make a long trip and I am not familiar with that voyage.

Posted by: trylon Oct 8 2023, 09:19 AM

Wow, thanks for that close inspection! Interesting that it can start and run as well as it does with so many discrepancies from stock. Also great to hear it is not too difficult to make whole again.

Will begin by deepening my understanding of the description you sent me and creating a list of items for purchase. Will probably not immediately undertake the task of putting it right while the fall driving season is in full swing. Although it all sounds fairly benign, I do not know enough about this car to be sure I won’t screw something up and miss out!


Are these valid?



Ha, I see there is a 90 degree hose on AAR right where there is a kink in mine!

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 8 2023, 12:00 PM

Yeah, nothing there will give you real problems, however, you should cap all of the open ports in the air filter box. You are bypassing the filter with each of those and your active pcv is pulling that dirty air straight into your block and out through your heads. Your one dusty gravel road away from some real engine damage.

Posted by: trylon Oct 8 2023, 05:30 PM

Yikes!
Will do!

Posted by: wonkipop Oct 9 2023, 04:18 AM

i'd add to emeryGT350 's observations.
there are a few plugs missing off the tin ware.
the alternator adjustment slot seal is missing.
means its leaking cooling air out there.

also you should plug the circular ports in the tin that take the blower motor hoses down to the heat exchanger heating circuit. some lids or some such thing that fit over them would suffice. basically those open holes mean you can suck heated exhausted cooling air from under the car back into the engine bay. the type 4 engine cooling relies on total separation from the heated air under the car. particularly while you are sitting at idle stuck in a traffic jam and not moving. one of those holes is sealed on one side but is not on the other. mimic the seal on that one that is there. alternatively if you have proper heat exchangers on the car and the heater works hook up the blower fan with a tube/hose to the open hole on left hand side. looks like previous owner has removed that heater blower hose for some reason.

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 9 2023, 06:13 AM

And yes, that hose diagram is quality.

Posted by: Porschef Oct 9 2023, 12:38 PM

Check to see if your fuse panel cover is missing under the dash. They seem to go missing often...

Posted by: trylon Oct 10 2023, 04:08 PM

Thanks for all the expert information!
“Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.”

Posted by: trylon Oct 10 2023, 04:10 PM

First showing!

Posted by: trylon Oct 10 2023, 04:12 PM

On another note— wheel for spare tire arrived.
Kinda beat up— someone restore these?

Posted by: eric9144 Oct 10 2023, 04:21 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=27514 https://www.fuchsrestoration.com/ or https://www.facebook.com/p/Weidmans-Wheels-100071762617343/ or take a shot at it yourself

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 10 2023, 04:38 PM

You are so lucky. I have had mine for over two years and have yet to meet up with another 914. I have a guy near me rebuilding a 914/6 but we haven't been able to meet yet.

Posted by: Porschef Oct 10 2023, 06:18 PM

The more I see painted sail panels, the more I like them

Great colors

Posted by: era vulgaris Oct 11 2023, 05:54 AM

The 914's made to hang out with the Beetle, while the 911's all hang out together on the other side of the lawn like they're the cool kids. Nothing ever changes
Just kidding man, looks like fun.

Posted by: 930cabman Oct 11 2023, 06:12 AM

There is still some truth to this, probably will always be so

btw: great looking example

Posted by: trylon Oct 11 2023, 07:52 AM

Ha! I can see how that picture could be interpreted as a slight but when you zoom out one might get a completely different impression:



The guy who runs the show (Porsches+, by invitation) was specifically searching for 914s to display— and put them with all the early Porsche-designed vehicles in a place of honor.

Posted by: trylon Oct 11 2023, 08:09 AM

I was surprised to see another 914. The owner knows of two others in the state and we hope to get together in some mini gathering sometime!
I was hungry to see how our engines compared, specifically what was missing in mine. Somehow in my excitement I forgot to take a picture of it. It was good to compare— learned a lot.

And, yes, I am very lucky in so many ways.

Posted by: trylon Oct 11 2023, 08:14 AM

Yes, it’s there but looks like its the reverse of what is pictured in the owner’s manual.

Posted by: flipb Oct 11 2023, 08:14 AM

In some good company there!

Amazing how low a 914 looks even next to a Beetle.

I've been seeing other 914s at Cars & Coffee events around me a little more frequently lately. People are dusting them off and tuning them up as values rise.

Posted by: trylon Oct 11 2023, 11:22 AM

Saw in the other 914 in the show that there was a ‘Y’ that attached to the heater blower that permitted attaching a hose to the drivers side and a one to the passenger’s side.

Is that a stock part available somewhere or something I will have to fashion myself?

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 11 2023, 11:37 AM

They stopped putting that on earlier in the models. By 73 it was just the one pipe on the driver side. It's not even particularly effective only running through one side. The real push comes from the engine fan. You will notice heat is pronounced when at high rpm and not so much below 3k. The fan pressurized one on the driverside helps, marginally, keep your side defrosted. Marginally. I would just hook it to the driver side and leave the passenger sealed.

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 11 2023, 11:38 AM

and get yourself a sealed battery.

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 11 2023, 11:41 AM

Is your cooling flap hooked up? Can't tell from the picture.

There should be a little wire here pulling on the metal rod.



edit: it kind of looks like it is from an earlier picture.

Posted by: wonkipop Oct 12 2023, 06:22 AM

pretty sure the twin hose set up on later cars post 73 is either a dealer lash up or some subsequent mod that owners "discovered" in the late 70s 80s.

the y adaptor is a standard VW piece out of the Vw 411/412 variant (squareback).

the earlier set up with twin hoses is just a straight up VW 411 blower fan configuration from the 411 sedans. its whole different blower housing with two outlets either side.

personally i think the single hose fan set up works fine. it demists the windscreen in front of the driver which is i believe its real intended purpose. i don't think porsche or VW were cutting corners when they did it in 73. it is all the tiny cabin of the 914 needs?

just hook up the left hand side blower hose to the fan and be done with it.

besides the y piece is kind of unobtanium i think these days being a VW part for a 412 variant and long gone in terms of finding one. except in a junkyard?

and........i drive a right hand drive 914 with a left hand hose biased heater blower.
no problems. but i concede australia (north antarctica) ain't exactly cold by north american standards.

the main thing would be to ensure that the hole through the tin normally hooked up to the blower hose is not open to the car underneath. you don't want heat from either the exhausted cooling air or even via the heat exchangers blowing back into the upper section of the engine bay. type 4 engine relies on total separation of engine bay upper zone from lower zone. esp in a 914 because the engine cooling fan is not relying on a dedicated ducted cooling inlet airflow isolated from exhausted coolant air that has been heated after pushing around the engine itself.

your car would have had a single hose from blower to the left hand side circular hole in the tin from factory. buy some hose and hook it up and enjoy the heat assist. assuming the fan still works of course.

Posted by: jhynesrockmtn Oct 12 2023, 07:12 AM

My 74 and my buddies 74 both have double fans as pictured.




Attached image(s)

Posted by: trylon Oct 14 2023, 01:44 PM

If I have found the spot to which you are referring, I believe that there is no such wire. Will be putting the car on a lift soon, pics to follow— should give us more info concerning the thermostat.

Posted by: trylon Oct 14 2023, 01:51 PM

Thanks for all the input on the heater hose.
Will simply attach blower to the one uncovered hole and be done with it.
Interestingly, I did not realize that there might be heat even without the blower. Could certainly use some right about now. Taking the car on a three day mini-excursion starting tomorrow. Not going further than 100 miles round trip but doing one of those each day. Next level stress test… wish me luck!

Posted by: Shivers Oct 14 2023, 01:55 PM

Drivers side of the engine underneath the car.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WFrcKSB-oUM

Posted by: bkrantz Oct 14 2023, 06:41 PM

I did the Y-fitting and double blower hoses on mine, cuz why not?


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: emerygt350 Oct 15 2023, 02:13 PM

Another very easy, cheap, and important fix. Hopefully they didn't do anything stupid with the flaps inside the tin.

Posted by: Porschef Oct 16 2023, 06:31 AM

Very true, especially as real fall driving season is here. You’ll need the thermostat mount, pulley, cable, and the thermostat, which is available from Awesome Powdercoat. Your pulley is probably still in place, which would be a plus

Posted by: trylon Oct 19 2023, 06:40 PM

Remarkable performance from this automobile! Multiple trips, in city, on highway, country roads, it just runs. It is difficult to believe that this is vehicle is a half a century old. Was particularly surprised at its 70mph performance on a 10 mile stretch of interstate. Not my usual venue but it handled it with aplomb.

I will say that I rarely drive my classics at night and on a busy Westchester backroad with SUVs on my tail it felt like the headlights could not keep up with the speed. Pretty much a trial by fire that I will not repeat without further investigation.

On another note: BAT contacted me for a few paragraphs about the car as well as some pics. It may just be SOP but I’ll bite— stay tuned!

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 19 2023, 06:50 PM

If both of the Jtubes are capped and the rest of the heat system is intact there will be plenty of HOT air.

Posted by: flipb Oct 20 2023, 07:01 AM

You got a peach of an example; no wonder that you're having so much fun with it.

As for the headlights, there are http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=367668 that make it more usable at night. Personally, I put in Halogen H4s about a decade ago, and I still don't love driving it at night. I'm probably due for the LED upgrade too.

Posted by: trylon Oct 20 2023, 02:01 PM

I went through all this with the Karmann Ghia as well. Will investigate, thanks.

Posted by: trylon Oct 20 2023, 02:05 PM

Nice upgrade in fruit, my first classic was a lemon.

The night drive would have been pleasant if not for the hurry around me. I so prefer stock that I would rather not put that glare on the front. Don’t do much night driving, will have to weigh all options.

Posted by: trylon Oct 20 2023, 02:08 PM

Here is the most glaring bit in the interior:



Such an odd wound in such a clean car.

Unobtainium?

Buy a parts car?

Roll your own?

Posted by: 930cabman Oct 20 2023, 03:30 PM

914 Rubber? or parts car, I am sure this is available

Posted by: trylon Oct 20 2023, 09:00 PM

I see the piece below it at 914Rubber:

https://914rubber.com/upper-roll-bar-pad-for-914

But I don’t even see the piece in question in the exploded diagram:



Or am I missing something?

Posted by: trylon Oct 20 2023, 09:13 PM

I think I found it!

Posted by: trylon Oct 21 2023, 12:27 PM

ChatGPT4 handles image input.
Unbelievably well.

Posted by: trylon Oct 24 2023, 06:54 PM

Saw these 2019 in Wolfsburg.



I think that is when the seed was replanted…

Posted by: trylon Oct 25 2023, 12:14 PM

Replacement for the damaged part came:



Came with no screws and the originals are too short. Need to be twice the length to project the same amount. Found some that worked at Home Depot.



‘course, missing three of these:

Posted by: trylon Oct 28 2023, 09:16 AM

“Turn on, tune in, drop out”
Estate where Timothy Leary had his psychedelic epiphany.

Posted by: trylon Nov 7 2023, 04:44 PM

First up — gonna see what’s going on with that front bumper.

Posted by: trylon Nov 7 2023, 10:26 PM

So is this a tire that might have been on the vehicle originally?

https://www.cokertire.com/tires/michelin-xas-165vr15-special-n-code.html

Posted by: Porschef Nov 8 2023, 06:55 AM

I think the XZX were, if not an option.







Hecho in Francaise

Posted by: trylon Nov 8 2023, 08:03 AM

Well, they would certainly be less expensive:

https://www.cokertire.com/tires/165sr15-michelin-xzx.html

Posted by: 930cabman Nov 8 2023, 09:43 AM

I would guess either one, XWX or XAS would give the closest to original feel. Got to love the skinny ones

Posted by: trylon Nov 8 2023, 11:38 AM

Leaning towards the XAS— 165mm tire width work with the Fuchs on the car?

Posted by: 930cabman Nov 8 2023, 12:00 PM

IIRC, the wheel width needs to be 4.5

Posted by: flipb Nov 8 2023, 12:03 PM

I have 165s on my stock Mahle wheels. That should be the correct size for a factory 914/4 wheel.

(For what it's worth, I bought Vredestein T-Tracs -- modern tread and compound but vintage size. Excellent grip.)

Posted by: trylon Nov 8 2023, 02:44 PM

Well, the Fuchs wheels seem to be 6.5 inches wide!

Closest match for that width seems to be:
https://www.cokertire.com/tires/180hr15-michelin-xas.html

It’s a tube tire— didn’t know they made such a thing anymore.

Here’s what’s on the vehicle now, at their expiration point:



Pulled it. You can see what was done to fit the 5 bolt wheels.



Was surprised at the light nuts used. Any idea what to torque them to?

Posted by: trylon Nov 10 2023, 08:05 AM

So I am assuming that these light lug nuts are aluminum and should therefor be torqued at 94.

Posted by: trylon Nov 10 2023, 08:09 AM

BAT requested a story to post on their “Success” page.

A Happy Mistake
————————

I made a terrible mistake.

It might have been the glow of the dash-lights or that of the beautiful young girl driving it but my first ride in a sports car was a heady experience. “It’s an MGB” she said.

In 1971, I drove my first new car off the dealership lot, a shiny new white MGB-GT. A friend admonished me, "You should've bought a Porsche 914," but the model wasn't even on my radar. The car of that romantic night drive had beckoned me. But I wondered— had I made a terrible mistake?

It wasn't until years later, long after the MGB-GT was gone, that I found myself behind the wheel of a Porsche 914, my mother-in-law's.

Another romantic night drive ensued, this time with my new wife. Astonishingly, I didn't "get it" at first. Even after a drive in the mountains over L.A the car didn't leave a lasting impression. But time has a way of altering our perspectives.

Fast forward to the present day, when an opportunity to own a 1973 Porsche 914 2.0 presented itself on BAT. I had come to really appreciate its lines and, well, “my friends all have Porsche’s, I must make amends.” Didn’t know what to expect but this time was profoundly different. Each turn, each acceleration, felt like a revelation—this was the driving experience I'd been unknowingly seeking all my life.

Looking back, I see that what felt like a missed opportunity had actually paved the way for this belated epiphany. The years, the circumstances, and even my own changing tastes had conspired to make this a moment worth waiting for. In a twist of fate, my initial "mistake" and the circuitous journey that followed had led me to a deep and genuine appreciation for something I'd once overlooked.

As I ready myself for a drive on the long and winding road that awaits, I reflect on how my supposed misstep was actually a necessary detour. It was a journey that taught me that some things in life need to be revisited to be truly appreciated. And as the engine purrs to life, I know that this isn’t just a drive; it’s a pilgrimage to celebrate the roads traveled and the paths yet to be explored.

Posted by: 930cabman Nov 10 2023, 11:52 AM

Funny how life leads us ,........

1972, I was 20 y/o and considering a new 914 or squareback. the squareback won out and these days I have 5 of them in the stable, 914's that is.

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 10 2023, 02:13 PM

5.5

i run 165 XAS on my 74 1.8. great tyre.
have star steelie sport rims. standard original factory.

the 4.5 wide rims were on very early 914/4s.
the tyres were 155 for those!!!!!!! as per a standard VW bug etc.


but you are correct. you won't get a XAS on a 6.5

as to original tyres.
95% of all 914s and 911s for USA were factory fitted with Dunlop SP. 165 on the 914/4 with 5.5. (you could get wider SP tyres also back then for the wider rims).
unless you ticked a box for something else.
my car still had the original SP tyres on it when i bought it back in 89.
still kicking myself i threw them all out and put new tyres on and did not think to keep at least one as a specimen. back then you just didn't know.

closest thing to those original Dunlops these days is the repro Pirelli Cinturrato.
very expensive (At least down here in north antarctica).
the XAS are about midway between the next layer down.
next layer down is veredestien and michelin XZX or whatever its called that i can't remember.

all of them are good tyres. restore the light steering feel original to the cars.
and plenty, i mean plenty of grip, for spirited driving.
the repos are a soft compound made for grip, not long life.
logic being if you have a classic you are not putting miles on it so harder compound is unnecessary.

the XAS for porsche fitment are marked with a zero or an N or something like that.
i asked the tyre guy if there was a difference. he said there was.
there are apparently two grades of the XAS repros.
the ones i have are tubeless. that might be the difference.
porsche don't recommend fitting the tube version.
porsche make recommendations on classic tyre fitment somewhere on their vast website.

i know too much about this from when i put the tyres on a few years back.

Posted by: trylon Nov 11 2023, 10:02 AM

Ha!

Posted by: trylon Nov 11 2023, 10:12 AM

Wow! Thanks for sharing all this great information! So helpful.
Will be fitting new tires on it this off-season and will keep it all in mind.

Posted by: trylon Nov 11 2023, 10:17 AM

Bumper off. Trying to determine why it was low on the driver’s side.
Can any info be gleaned from what was under it?


The passenger side dogbone was missing. Original one was on the driver’s side.
Photo shows two new ones.
Oddly the bolts holding the bumper on were only finger tight!

Also will check out horns while they are exposed.

Posted by: 930cabman Nov 11 2023, 01:28 PM

Gotta wonder what else is finger tight?

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 11 2023, 02:18 PM

there is one other tyre you can consider.
be over-tyre for a 914/4.
but 916s were fitted with them.
and f. porsche's 918 in the museum has them (possibly original, not sure).

michelin XWX. apparently available. i've never seen them.
alternative to pirelli cinturatos which are real expensive.
however ---- have no idea what the XWX costs.

comes in a 185 to fit fuchs rims you have.
reminiscent of the old dunlop SP 57.







i forgot to add, the XAS howl like crazy. esp when first fitted.
i thought i had blown the transaxle.
driving around on modern tyres you forget that tyre roar has been supressed in modern cars with tread design etc.
the "lower" spec michelin XZX might be quieter than the XAS.
its pretty funny.
but since i always drive with the top off and given the old VW 1800 ain't exactly turbine quiet (being a kind of enlarged lawn mower) tyre roar ain't exactly any kind of priority with me. i got other cars for serious long distance driving.

Posted by: trylon Nov 13 2023, 11:22 PM

Size, tubeless, price, look, rating, sound seem to center on this:

https://www.cokertire.com/tires/185vr15-michelin-xvs.html

Posted by: trylon Nov 15 2023, 03:49 PM

Looking a bit deeper into the front

Something missing here:


And replaced here:


And welded here:

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 15 2023, 11:27 PM

re #1.





re #2
can't photograph other side at present - but from trunk side looks like

Posted by: falcor75 Nov 15 2023, 11:40 PM

The gas cap will most likely polish up quite well with a wire wheel and some effort. Its a rewarding small job.

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 16 2023, 12:19 AM

i doubt you will be disappointed.
its a fatty XAS.

they are fricken good.
except i have no idea how they go in the wet.
but in the dry. worth every penny if you like to take your corners at a pace.

i still can't quite believe how mine stick and they are skinny minie 165s.
(and they are 3.5 years old now and still sticking).
progressive too. they roll over a bit on their side walls and let you know when they are doing it. its like a little slide moment. just to warn you of what might be coming next if you go a bit harder. but its not going to lead to a sudden breakaway and loss of grip which modern tyres actually do .......do.

Posted by: trylon Nov 16 2023, 07:18 AM

Man, ya gotta love this forum!
It’s sooooo much more knowledgeable than Chat … and more fun as well!
Thanks for all the facts, diagrams, and insight.

Let’s continue if you are game.

Want to apply 12v from a bench source to each horn (if you recall they do not sound when asked at the steering wheel). I doubt they are both simply not working but it looks like an easy piece of evidence to retrieve at the moment.



Before I mangle them, do the wires pull out or, as I suspect, are they attached to plugs that can be pulled?

Posted by: emerygt350 Nov 16 2023, 09:56 AM

cover your ears. These are the horns of the apocalypse.

Posted by: rjames Nov 16 2023, 04:27 PM

Posted by: trylon Nov 16 2023, 06:21 PM

Refurbished these 6v horns for my Karmann Ghia:



If you clamp the amps, they only whimper.

Posted by: trylon Nov 17 2023, 10:00 AM

Look what randomly popped up yesterday!

Posted by: flat4guy Nov 18 2023, 10:11 PM

Great little car for a good price - and it looks like it went to an owner that will take care of it. Glad you're having fun.

Posted by: trylon Nov 22 2023, 12:16 PM

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/porsche/914-6/2749412.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=saved_search&utm_campaign=2023-11-22

Yikes!

Posted by: porschetub Nov 22 2023, 09:03 PM

what a steal with the wheels and pretty sure an expensive repaint ,well done .

Posted by: trylon Nov 25 2023, 10:54 AM

Not sure I can be congratulated for others dropping out of the bidding but hey thanks!

Posted by: trylon Nov 25 2023, 11:04 AM

Ok, horn fixin’ time.

Pulled off the connectors on the secondary horn (that’s what I’m calling the ‘extra’ horn down the power chain) and hooked up a power supply set to 12v clamped to 5 amps. Got no sound whatsoever. Wanna check my work before I pull the horn and open it up?



Even switched the positive and negative leads in case they were on incorrectly.
Nada.

Posted by: technicalninja Nov 25 2023, 01:51 PM

Lightly tapping the horn with a small hammer while applying power sometimes brings them back from the dead...

Usually means they will stick again, just when you really need them and should be restored/replaced.

Old school electrical diagnosis tip is to "smack the offending item" and see if anything changes.

Only way to diagnose early GM ECUs, which had a 4 foot pigtail especially for this purpose. Lay that critter in the passenger seat, drive around till it does its thing and then slap the dogshit out of the ECU and see if your problem changes/straightens up. If it does you have cold solder issues with the ECU and a replacement is needed.

Almost all sticking blower motors will "wake up" when slapped.

Posted by: trylon Nov 25 2023, 03:27 PM

No go. Thanks.

Posted by: trylon Nov 25 2023, 03:30 PM

So refurbished a 6v pair for my Ghia:



Seems they decided to keep out all but the most foolhardy.

Now, where did I put the 12v pair I replaced…

Posted by: trylon Nov 27 2023, 10:55 AM

Wondering if the working 12v horns that came off my Karmann Ghia will sound the same as those that were on the 914…

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 27 2023, 06:11 PM

i'd guess yes.
the horns on the 914 are standard issue VW.
i have the single horn on my 74 1.8
sounds exactly like the horn did on my type 3 squareback from younger days.

meep meep. (roadrunner, the coyotes after you)

Posted by: trylon Nov 28 2023, 11:08 AM

Sweet! I will stick ‘em on and we can give them a listen.

Posted by: trylon Dec 6 2023, 04:30 PM

There here!

Posted by: trylon Dec 20 2023, 12:37 PM

Well, it seems that the tires are not the right size. The knowledgeable garage I use for such things did a bit of research and found this:



in this:



I don’t know how I managed to get it so wrong but it would be great to get cooborotion from you guys before sending back the ones I got (pictured above) and ordering the right ones.

Posted by: trylon Dec 20 2023, 12:45 PM

I checked back and now recall the problem— the Fuchs wheel seems to need 6.5 inch wide tires.

Posted by: 930cabman Dec 20 2023, 05:00 PM

I like the way 185's look and feel on my '75 914/4

I am tempted to go with 165's though, we shall see

Posted by: trylon Dec 20 2023, 06:57 PM

I realized that I ignored the ratio number— had 185/80s.
Returning them for 185/70s, what the 911 of that year had on its five bolt Fuchs.

https://www.cokertire.com/tires/185-70vr15-michelin-xwx.html

And now we will be rated to go about twice as fast as we ever will!

Posted by: Jett Dec 21 2023, 10:59 AM

These work well… we have them on two 914’s with Fuch and Mahle’s…

Here is the price for five back in 2016 when we bought our first set.


Michelin XWX | 185/70VR15 57970 5 $1,740.00

Posted by: trylon Dec 27 2023, 02:19 PM

Thanks for the confirmation!
The price was a slap in the face though haha.

Posted by: trylon Dec 27 2023, 02:30 PM

I remembered that I had used the 12v Karmann Ghia horns to sweeten a deal, so I undertook repairing those from the Porsche.

Had never drilled out a rivet before:




Got to practice on 8 of them:




As suspected, it was the points:




Rinse and repeat, button up with nuts and bolts:

Posted by: Gint Dec 29 2023, 08:58 AM

Probably not... They are almost certainly 6" Fuchs.

Wheels are measured from inside the wheel, between the inside of lips where the tire seats.



Your car has me thinking about 5 lugging my zambezi and putting Fuchs on it.

Posted by: Gint Dec 29 2023, 11:12 AM

The electric blower motor is basically in the same heating (or cooling) "circuit" as the engine fan. The only real purpose it serves is too keep a more significant amount of air blowing into the cabin when the engine is operating at lower speeds. Like when idling. Once above 1500-2k rpm, the engine fan blows way more air into the cabin than the electric fan does.

Posted by: BillJ Dec 29 2023, 11:34 AM

If that is a real factory GT its a steal of a price.

Posted by: Gint Dec 29 2023, 11:48 AM

Generally speaking, in states that do require a 50 year old car to pass an emissions test, the requirements they have to meet are usually not the same standard that a current car has to meet. The standard is lower or equivalent to what it might have been back in 73 for example. They do like to check for emissions equipment though. So later stuff like 75 or 76 cars that came with EGR valves, air pumps, catalytic converters etc... have to have the equipment installed on the car.

Back in the day before Colorado had a collector plate program and still required a 73 or 74 car to pass an emissions test, I had no issues leaning out a carb'd 914 slightly and getting it to pass. Fortunately I don't have to do that any more. As long as a car is tuned and running properly, it should pass teh older reuirement.

Posted by: Gint Dec 29 2023, 12:21 PM

You were probably better off with a car that spent a majority of its life out west anyway.

I've been reading through your thread backwards.

Great looking 914!

Posted by: trylon Dec 30 2023, 08:31 AM

Thanks for all the input Gint!

Posted by: trylon Jan 8 2024, 03:27 PM

Still havin’ horn fun!

Put them back on to their wiring and gave the horn button a press— nothing.

So I pulled the horn relay and tested it in the headlight motor— works.
Went to put it back and the horns sounded when I just touched the relay to its input holes! Startled me. Tried again and nothing this time, not even when I press the horn button. Thought I might have blown the relay somehow, tested it with 12v and its clicks as expected.

Intermittent wonkiness possible?
Just had the thought that I should put the headlight motor one into the horn relay spot and see what happens…

Posted by: trylon Jan 29 2024, 02:38 PM

What a transformation!

Posted by: 930cabman Jan 29 2024, 05:45 PM

What a great restoration, I would sure like a set of these on my ride.

Is this a DIY?

Posted by: TRS63 Jan 30 2024, 02:27 AM

Wow, awesome work on the Fuchs!

Bests

Antoine

Posted by: trylon Jan 30 2024, 08:47 AM

Let me hasten to add that I had no more to do with this restoration than doling out the cash.

All credit goes to Ed at https://www.fuchsrestoration.com/

Posted by: trylon Feb 1 2024, 08:25 AM

Tale of my road to the 914 up on BAT:

https://bringatrailer.com/2024/02/01/bat-auction-success-story-a-porsche-914-is-a-retroactive-revelation/

Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 1 2024, 09:18 AM

Is the wire on the horn pad securely fastened?

Posted by: trylon Feb 1 2024, 10:09 AM

Going there next… thanks!

Posted by: trylon Feb 8 2024, 11:15 AM

Ok, pulled the horn button. Detached, taped ground wire. Worn cup. Non-conductive washers incorrectly placed so that horn would always be grounded. So that and corroded points in each horn were the culprits as now if the ground wire is grounded, the horn sounds.

Ordered a new cup to complete the job. Safety increasing— LED headlights and working horn. Drivers side seat belt next.

Posted by: trylon Feb 11 2024, 08:32 AM

Hahaha— failed at trying to lube a sticky belt!
NOS on order…

Posted by: trylon Feb 12 2024, 02:07 PM

Soon to be back on all fours!

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 12 2024, 03:17 PM

New sneakers are always a +

Posted by: emerygt350 Feb 12 2024, 04:27 PM

Love how those wheels turned out.

Posted by: wonkipop Feb 13 2024, 02:06 AM

top shelf. beyond beer.
take the glaze off those and chuck it into a few corners and report back,

Posted by: trylon Feb 18 2024, 12:36 PM

Looking forward to doing just that!
But ‘tis the season for repairing. Having at making it safer for all the Porsche fun I can muster this year.

I will then, with face flushed and heart racing, give with all the delicious driving details— Stay Tuned!

Posted by: trylon Feb 20 2024, 05:13 PM

https://cvrpca.com/event/apr-20-lake-waramaug-coffee-run/

Organized a coffee run!

Posted by: Porschef Feb 21 2024, 01:24 PM

Posted by: emerygt350 Feb 21 2024, 01:32 PM

I actually rewound a seatbelt after that. Worked just as well as when I let the magic winds out. Ended up buying new ones before track day last July. Good investment. Not that expensive, and much safer.

Posted by: trylon Feb 22 2024, 06:47 AM

You are a better man than I am, Gunga Din.

Posted by: trylon Feb 26 2024, 12:32 PM

Can you believe I am still working on the horn!?

If you recall, the horn button was disconnected with its innards haphazardly arranged and the horns themselves in need of point filing. Removed bumper, removed horns after testing, drilled out rivets, filed points, bolted back together, tested, re-installed.

When the bare wire of the horn button is grounded, horns sound. Yay, electricity stills works.

So on to putting the horn button back in correct order. After much trial and error and upside and backwards imagining I think I figured out the order of the parts and what is supposed to take place.

As I wish I had found this information instead of having to generate it, here is how I think it is supposed to go (but what do I know haha):


Porsche logo on horn button face points up in direction of blue arrow


[edit] Insulating material washers (not shown in previous picture) to isolate the contact plate from horn button.


Contact plate oriented with blue circled terminal as shown


Non-conductive washers next to electrically isolate contact plate


Connecting spring next


M4 nylon washers next to maintain contact plate isolation from screws


Metal washers next to keep heads of screws from digging into nylon washers


Screws next making sure to center all items


Rubber cup last

Posted by: trylon Feb 26 2024, 12:38 PM

So my next question:

Is the grounding wire long enough to travel along with the turns of the wheel from lock to lock?
[Have since determined that the wire travels with the steering wheel!]

Posted by: emerygt350 Feb 26 2024, 06:47 PM

Looks like my wire, plus electrical tape.

Posted by: emerygt350 Feb 26 2024, 06:48 PM

Dbpost

Posted by: trylon Feb 26 2024, 06:53 PM

Thanks for the confirmation.
Sorry for the double post.

Posted by: trylon Feb 29 2024, 05:02 PM

Video shot last fall of the Porsche taking a spin around Lake Waramug in Connecticut.

https://youtu.be/JLcAUhXo5BI?si=Z_2IJaglTS9kUDP5

Posted by: trylon Mar 12 2024, 06:29 PM

Pulled the AAR:



Discovered an unplugged sensor:



What’s up with that?

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 13 2024, 04:58 AM

Doh! That's important. Plenum temp I believe. And it looks like your thermostat bellows is shot as well.

Posted by: trylon Mar 14 2024, 01:03 PM

So the plot thickens…

As you know I am at the apprentice level with 914s (well, at best probably any car for that matter haha). When I pulled the AAR I noticed that I could blow through it, interestingly one side seemed easier to blow through than the other. Given this, I am wondering if my original assessment of the rough starting cause might not be correct.

If you recall, the car cold starts as though it needs to pull the choke out. As there is none, my understanding is that in a 914 the AAR creates a vacuum leak (an automatic bit of throttle pedal down if you will) that will bring up the revs when cold.

The fact that the revs are too low at cold start led me to believe that the AAR was stuck shut and not causing the vacuum leak needed. But the fact that it is not shut and lets air through seems to point to some other reason for the rough cold start.

I also now see that the AAR is not like the thermostat bellows in that it does not use engine heat directly to close but instead is electrically heated when some switch is closed when a sensor determines the engine is warm enough.

So, now I wonder if the sensor that is unplugged is the sensor that determines this engine heat. If so, that would make the AAR inoperable and always open.

This is all so convoluted that I wonder if someone misunderstood the functioning of the AAR and unplugged the sensor and did other adjustments to get the engine to run— because it does seem to run well after it warms up. I just wonder at what cost!

So the AAR has been soaking in Blaster and I am going to empty it out and put 12Vs on it to see if it ever closes and doesn’t permit air through it. If it seems to work, I will put it back on and for grins reattach the sensor.

I think I am going to have to screw up how the engine runs before I correctly get it to run well!

Posted by: trylon Mar 14 2024, 03:04 PM

Hooked up the AAR to 12V and let it warm to about 90 degrees. It must have closed as I could no longer blow through it! So we know that is working now ( or always was doh).

Will put it back on tomorrow and plug in the sensor. Let’s see how it starts and runs then…

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 14 2024, 03:24 PM

The AAR circuit is pretty dumb. It's just a heater and it just heats. Always. Once the engine gets hot enough the AAR tends to just stay open or open quickly once started. That AAR being open would cause what you are looking at. I have not delved into that plenum charge temp sensor but it is just another way for the engine to modify the richness. So depending on whether open means hot or open means cold would drive whether you were too lean at start or rich enough but then rich as you warmed up. Some sensors have bigger impacts than others. I suspect this one is middle to small impact on richness. There are nice diagrams out there and explanations. Here is what PBanders has to say: (from https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/DJetParts.htm#Vacuum%20Leaks)

Air intake temperature sensor:

Function: Senses intake air temperature and sends signal to the ECU to provide mixture compensation.
Normal Value(s): 300 ohms @ 68 deg. F, about 100 ohms @ 122 deg. F.
Failure Modes
Open: Makes the mixture somewhat richer. Check with an ohmmeter.
Shorted: Makes the mixture somewhat leaner. Check with an ohmmeter.
Notes: The output of this sensor is used by the ECU to adjust the mixture for the intake air temperature. This is a secondary adjustment and has a small effect on the mixture. The sensor corrects for the decrease in air density with increasing temperature by leaning out the mixture. Disconnecting this sensor has the effect of richening the mixture, a common mechanic's trick.
More: This sensor and the cylinder head temperature sensor are negative-temperature-coefficient (NTC) thermistors. Here's a URL on thermistors and how they work:
http://www.rtie.com/ntc/ntcappln.htm

Here's a URL that describes the manufacturing process:

http://www.ussensor.com/manufacturing.html

Below is a URL to a reference that has two charts showing the resistance vs. temperature relationship for the intake air sensor and the engine temperature sensors used in D-Jetronic. The engine sensor data looks OK (about 2.5K at 68 deg. F), but could be from any sensor. Bosch used the same air temperature sensor on all D-Jetronic cars, regardless of model, so the data should be accurate for the 914's sensor:

http://www.icbm.org/erkson/ttt/engine/fuel_injection/d-jet.html

The charts are about half way down the page.

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 14 2024, 03:25 PM

"a common mechanic's trick." I may have to try that trick some time.

Looks like the PO was fighting a lean condition.

Posted by: trylon Mar 14 2024, 04:15 PM

Wow! This is great stuff! Thanks for taking the time to find and post it.

Yes, it seems that if the AAR were stuck open, the mixture would be lean indeed and pulling the plug on the air intake temperature sensor might have well been the cheap trick to enrich the mixture. Further, that enriched mixture might be causing the cold start!

So my hope is, now that the AAR is working, I can simply reconnect the air intake temperature sensor and, voila, no cold start, perfect mixture!

Ha ha, we shall see…

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 14 2024, 05:14 PM

Hope springs eternal. 914 owners tend to be 'better tomorrow ' folk.

Posted by: trylon Mar 15 2024, 11:46 AM

Ok, put it the AAR back in and reconnected the temp sensor.

Car hasn’t been started for months.

Turned the key, waited for fuel pump, a few short grinds, and up it came— immediately went to ~900 on the tach. No if ands or buts. After a bit it started to see-saw then settled back 900 after about a half a dozen fluctuations. Let it run for about a minute and revs were steady at 900.

Turned it off, waited about a minute, and restarted. Man, it has never started so strongly and willingly! Pegged 900 and stayed there.

Just went and tried again. Quick start up, see-saw about 30 seconds settling down to much lower revs ~200 (the first short line on the speedometer).

Stepped on it and released to see how it recovered— not well, almost stalling on one try, but always coming back to ~200.

Idle too low now, so let’s see what happens when I set it higher… hmm, interesting catch-22, how do you set the idle with the air cleaner on? Seems if you remove it, the idle will be different when you replace it.

Posted by: trylon Mar 15 2024, 11:56 AM

And while we are poking around…

Slid under for the first time only to find this:



Any guesses as to what precisely is leaking?
Remember, this has been on a lift all winter.

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 15 2024, 03:15 PM

If it is the cv gaskets, super easy and cheap. Engine looks dry so I don't think it's motor oil.

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 15 2024, 03:16 PM

Your idle cold should be around 1600 as it warms. Cold start it will struggle a little but should be around 900-1100, as the car warms the idle will rise to 1600ish, then drop slowly as the AAR closes.

How long did you run it?

Posted by: Shivers Mar 15 2024, 04:42 PM

Put some of that lubricant on your finger, rub it around and smell it. Gear oil has a gamey smell. At least you will know what is leaking

Posted by: trylon Mar 15 2024, 06:00 PM

Yes, it does smell gamey indeed— I do recall somewhere a mention of leaking CV joints. Happy to hear it might be within my pay grade. Will look into it.

Posted by: trylon Mar 15 2024, 06:02 PM

Never went above 900 but perhaps I did not run it long enough, only about a minute or so. Will give it a longer try tomorrow and report back.

Thanks for all your help!

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 15 2024, 06:42 PM

Oh yeah, 1 minute isn't even close. You could raise a family in the time it takes for the ECU to decide the engine is warm. I would say 10 min driving for the AAR to finish it's job. Much longer for the ECU to start pulling the richness out due to head temp. I don't trust the ECU to believe it's hot until I at least see the oil temp rising past the first little white bar.

Posted by: trylon Mar 16 2024, 05:49 AM

So by the time the engine is deemed warm, you have a new baby and have to give up your two seater!?

Since mine is on a lift and wheel-less, I will leave this testing for a later time.

But this seems the perfect time to see if the CV gasket is the leaky culprit.
So unbolt it, open it, clean it, repack it, new gasket, close it, bolt it?
I know I should remove the joint and inspect but I am trying to stay clear of rabbit holes so I get the car back on the road as soon as possible. Heard no clunking, felt no wobbles…

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 16 2024, 08:07 AM

Yep, no need to remove anything from the car. It's just a paper gasket, cheap and easy. The cv grease is the most expensive part of the job. That and the tool for removing the bolts if you don't have one. Make sure the tool goes all the way in. You don't want to strip one of those. I always give it a little tap with the hammer to make sure. They get pretty gunked up. Cleaning them first is a good idea.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 16 2024, 12:02 PM

Get proper metric triple square tool.

Can’t state it strongly enough DO NOT use a standard 6 point hex or a 12 point star tool (Toyota). They will feel like they fit but will strip the fastener head about 50% of the time if not more.

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 16 2024, 12:16 PM

https://a.co/d/iT0y9bR

Is the one I used. Amazon

Posted by: trylon Mar 16 2024, 02:22 PM

Tool, gasket, grease on order!

Posted by: trylon Mar 16 2024, 05:42 PM

Somethings still fishy about the horn.
After all my effort to understand and properly electrically isolate the button, the cliche ‘horn honks when the key is turned on’ has raised its ugly head.

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 16 2024, 07:47 PM

Even if the horn button is off the steering wheel?

Posted by: trylon Mar 17 2024, 01:21 PM

Well, no, not THAT fishy. I reinstalled the horn button simply connecting the wire to it and doing the twist thing to attach the button to the wheel. Turn on ignition and honk.

Going to look at it again right now and see if I can figure out how it is grounding prematurely.

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 17 2024, 01:38 PM

That big horn is pretty easy to not line up correctly on those 3 prongs. And even when it is on there correctly it honks with the slightest disturbance. I have been quite happy with my 3d printed hockey puck instead. I put it up on thingiverse if you are interested.

Posted by: trylon Mar 17 2024, 02:06 PM

Didn’t think I needed to but somehow ‘lectricity was still gettin’ to the ground wire through that bottom (top?) plate. Added three insulators:



Voila! Honks only on demand!

Ok, led headlights, horns refurbished and connected properly, NOS drivers side seat belt, new Michelin radials all round, AAR operational— well, let’s just say its safer than when I got it.

Waitin’ on tool, grease, and gasket to see if we can abate that leak.

Next up, addressing what I can of the engine air issues we discussed.

Got a coffee run to run in a few weeks ending up at Lime Rock for the CVR Porsche Club races! Jeez, actually might make it!

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 17 2024, 04:14 PM

Those help.

Posted by: trylon Mar 18 2024, 07:22 AM

Ha! My chase for stock has already been unduly disturbed by the LED headlights— don’t care how og they look. But thanks for the thought!

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 18 2024, 10:19 AM

What is this 'stock' word you mention... hah. Stock is all nice and fine at the PCA meet but give me something a little rough around the corners for racing and grocery store parking lots. Oh and the deer. I had one bounce off my passenger door and rear quarter 2 years ago.

Posted by: trylon Mar 18 2024, 02:10 PM

Would love to see a pic of your 914 one day!

Posted by: trylon Mar 18 2024, 02:13 PM

So seems that the bolts on the CV joint have been changed out:







Just happened to have H6 but only for a screwdriver that I cannot generate enough torque for… back to Amazon

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 18 2024, 02:17 PM

Are you being facetious? That is my 914!

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 18 2024, 02:19 PM

And I bet you won't find a gasket. Many people forget about them. Not sure how I feel about the change in bolts. Perhaps the hive mind will have some information in that. I suspect those original bolts were particular hardness etc. lots of forces involved there.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 18 2024, 02:30 PM

Allen head will be fine.

Triple square head can withstand more torque when it is clean and proper tool is used.

Having said that, people have been swapping out for Allen head since the 914 was practically new. Americans don’t like fancy tools like Torx, triple square, Ribe, etc. :

Back in the day, they pitched a fit over just having to buy metric tools evilgrin:

Posted by: trylon Mar 21 2024, 07:11 AM

Haha, yes I was! Just referencing my stock obsession.

Posted by: trylon Mar 21 2024, 07:12 AM

I think I spy something living between the halves…

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 21 2024, 07:56 AM

Ouch. Transmission seal? That stuff looks pretty thick for 90w. Maybe the leftovers of a blown cv boot? Why wouldn't they clean it? Or is it still ripped?

Posted by: trylon Mar 21 2024, 06:21 PM

The boot is dry, and the CV gasket looks pretty intact— pre-sale inspection stated that both the engine and transmission leak.



I bought it knowing that I would need to put more into it— I just forgot what haha!

Posted by: trylon Mar 21 2024, 07:20 PM

Regarding thermostat— mia, along with bracket and tin cover:

Posted by: BillJ Mar 21 2024, 08:22 PM

Isnt there a throughbolt for.the thermostat that if missing throws a bunch of oil?

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 22 2024, 04:23 AM

And you are going to want that tin eventually. Bellows can be had pretty cheap.

Posted by: trylon Mar 22 2024, 06:27 AM

That’s interesting… let me check further.
Thanks!

Posted by: trylon Mar 22 2024, 06:32 AM

Yes, I will be putting back all the missing bits eventually.
The whole apparatus was missing on my Karmann Ghia, including the air intake ring.
Put it all back in working order:

https://youtu.be/sEt8SgzGHKw?si=z1A7n1pffmq4RQy2

Posted by: FlacaProductions Mar 22 2024, 09:08 AM

Thermostat stuff if you need it:
https://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/porsche-thermostats

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 22 2024, 12:31 PM

That's interesting. I didn't know they had their own style of air cut off.

I saw a great Ghia the other day with one of those 0-60 (eventually) stickers on it.

Posted by: trylon Mar 24 2024, 03:54 PM

I believe the lowlights had that intake ring, eventually went to flaps.

Posted by: trylon Mar 24 2024, 03:55 PM

Yes, where I got the Ghia one. If I recall, there are options. Hopefully it is clear what the 914 uses.

Posted by: trylon Mar 25 2024, 04:21 PM

Well, looks like this was probably leaking oil:



Ordered a new bolt (comes with requisite washer).
And, man, was it over torqued!

Posted by: emerygt350 Mar 25 2024, 04:47 PM

A 914 that doesn't leak oil makes me suspicious....

Posted by: trylon Mar 26 2024, 08:35 AM

Hahaha

Perhaps the engine is just a shell with an electric motor inside eh?

Posted by: trylon Apr 4 2024, 01:27 PM

How many weeks does it take to change the oil?

Sounds like the beginning of a joke doesn’t it— you finish it because I am still changing the oil!

Got the new drain plug that I carefully screened to make sure it would fit.

It doesn’t.




The plot thickens— it seems like someone else had the same problem and cobbled together a bolt that would fit, if rather poorly.

Any insight into this would be greatly appreciated— leading a Porsche club coffee run on April 20 and it would probably be for the best if there was oil in the car.

Posted by: FlacaProductions Apr 4 2024, 03:24 PM

Interesting - i have that same LN drain plug - fits perfectly.
74 2.0

Posted by: trylon Apr 4 2024, 06:34 PM

It is mysterious isn’t it?

As is this google result intimating that there might be a specific one for 1973 2.0:



Guess I need to check the engine number next…

Posted by: FlacaProductions Apr 4 2024, 06:56 PM

Curious - I actually emailed LN (because I thought the description was unclear) and "Stephen" specifically said that "According to the Porsche PET, your 914 should use the 12 x 1.5 plug"

https://lnengineering.com/billet-stainless-magnetic-drain-plug-914-912e-type-4-vanagon-12-x-1-5-021101195ln.html

Posted by: trylon Apr 4 2024, 08:36 PM

Wow, thanks for doing the research!

So, first, let’s agree that ‘fit’ means I should be able to get the plug in using my fingers more than just the first couple of threads. I am sure I could have put a wrench on it and forced it in further, but…

So there is a tale out there in the carriage barn that we are about to uncover. Tomorrow I will check the number on the block and see where it begins.

Posted by: trylon Apr 5 2024, 09:40 AM

Well, let me nip this in the bud before it takes up any more bandwidth.

Went back under the car and tried putting in the plug that was there. It has exactly the same feeling haha! So I was just wimpin’ out, frightened because I was screwing into the block.

Used a wrench to drive it in (no great effort required), torqued up to 16 ft/lbs easily, new copper washer in place.


Getting oil to put in today.

There are so many things I would still like to do under the car but I have PCA obligations coming up and do not want to start something that I might not be able to finish. Clearly moved the car in the positive direction this off-season!

Putting the wheels back on.
Is it really the case that these lightweight bolts need to be torqued to 94 ft/lbs?