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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ The 3.2 Conversion Thread
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 25 2005, 02:58 PM
I played with my 1.7 914 for a couple of years and really enjoyed it for what it was. It was a boisterous tart of a car, petite and tolerant. The 14 was anxious to please. Then I decided that I needed more power. You see I had purchased another Porsche during that time (impure thoughts, impure thoughts) and learned some things like they joy of power-on oversteer. The "other Porsche" was a brute. It would knock the wine glasses over at dinner and lear at the boss' wife. It insisted on shots of Jameson's for everybody before and after dinner. CHEERS! The twin-cam growl as the tach sweeps to 6400, the ability to drive the car with all the controls including the throttle is paradise. The logic, desire, no NEED for an LSD to keep everything hooked up on corner exit make it a must. That ripping up asphalt feeling of the enourmous four-piston calipers hauling it down from a buck-twenty is like heroin. I couldn't get enough of this new brute.
The 1.7 would never produce "power-on" anything much less oversteer. I had listened to the PCA AS class gurus talk about the joys of driving momentum cars and how much more skilled I'd become for the effort. The other Porsche's call was hard to resist. The 914 sat forlorn. It was starting to be in the way. I would be bleeding the brakes on the "other Porsche" and have to walk around the 914 to get a tool or a hose. I started to think crazy. Sell it as a roller, buy an RSA, trade it for a Ducati, swap it for a cage in the "other Porsche," remove the tags and VINs and park it on a street someplace where you wouldn't want to walk alone at night.
The 1.7 got to such a forlorn state through a series of missteps on my part. I had decided to put a stock 2.0 in the car which would have been a substantial upgrade in performance. I've seen a well prepared 914 with a stock 2.0 take TTOD on a tight AX course. As I got into the project I realized that I was NOT going to be happy with 94.7 BHP even in a light car like the 14. The "other Porsche" had already done it's damage. So the project became to build a hot 2.0. Then came carbs and heads and the other stuff to make this happen. 115.3 BHP that's the ticket. As I worked into the project my time in the garage became more and more precious to the point where I only had weekends to mess with the 14. Hey, I've already got a full-time job! I decided that spending all my spare time wrenching was sounding like a lot less fun that when I started. And all that work for 115.3 BHP, if I was lucky. No can do. So then I went to engine builders. Finding the best wasn't hard. Getting on the list wasn't hard. The waiting proved HARD. After a couple of delays that started lengthening the build to a year or more I grew despondant. I NEED an engine for the 14. I kicked the project around with the boys at work, I bored neighbors with mornful sobbing, I sat and looked into the open garage looking at the misserable POS of a car. I drove the "other Porsche" everywhere and loved it. Choices, choices. Build myself, hire an engine builder, flat bed the car to a shop and tell 'em to make 'er run, get a six. Of the things in the universe of my desire for the 14 a six turned out to be high on the list. So why was I waiting for a hyper-trick-4? Because I loved the idea of getting an engine that is so exclusive you have to wait a year and send a wheelbarrow load of Benji's to make it so. But the wait was killing my interest. FOOL! Desire meets luck meets a Pelican in VT. Send Benjamins, receive engine. 3.2 motronic, 20x HP. Order headers with megaphones that break windows at 6400 but this time it's in the 914.
The 1.7 version of the car was cute where the 3.2 version will be monsterous. The 1.7 version was frugal where the 3.2 will extravagant. The 1.7 vesion was OEM while the 3.2 is TUF. The 1.7 version is.....gone.
So here starts the project. I've sourced a 3.2 Motronic Carrera (magical words) engine from an '85. It's coming to me complete from exhaust tip to air cleaner. My goal is to shove that engine into the 14 as soon as it arrives. I want to go from the pallet to the engine bay with no garage storage time whatsoever. Parts are being sourced NOW. Electrical stuff is being sorted out NOW. The Bently Carrera manual has been ordered NOW. The engine will use the Motronic. The "other Porsche" has that. It will get headers, the heat will come from within. I picture the 914 becoming a brute as well, eating all the fillet in one gulp while reciting x-rated limericks from memory. I've got no great plan past all that. Well aside from a little power-on oversteer that I've got scheduled for November...
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 25 2005, 03:35 PM
| QUOTE |
| power-on oversteer that I've got scheduled for November... |
Posted by: 736conver Sep 25 2005, 04:00 PM
Kevin,
Cool another 3.2 convert.
Check out my blog I started mine. I am in the process of waiting on parts.
Posted by: jim912928 Sep 25 2005, 08:20 PM
cool...I've got a donor carrera so I'm also starting a 3.2l conversion. I'm going to start accumulating parts, thing I haven't found anywhere is what to do about wiring this up. I'd like to remove the relay board...anybody have 3.2l conversion harnesses to bridge from the 3.2 harness to the 914 harness?
Posted by: rcarpen22 Sep 25 2005, 08:48 PM
What transmissions are y'all using with the 3.2? How much power can the stock trannies take? Also, I'm super curious as to what the "other" Porsche is in that story. Mine is an '86 944 turbo with about 320hp:) It's all about variety.
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 25 2005, 09:20 PM
736conver I looks like you're way down the road in your conversion. What'd you do for electrical integration for the motronic to the fuel pump and other "stuff?" 914 relay board or something else?
rcarpen22: The stock 914 (901) is rated by Porsche at around 148 ft-lbs of torque. The stock 3.2 Motronic produces around 190 ft-lbs. I plan to run the 914/901 for a while just so I can get the car on the road quickly. A sano 915 swap is pretty spendy. I'm figuring around $3-3.5k. Since I've got a servicable tranny right now I'm going to defer that purchase til next year. I just won't batter 1st and hope for the best.
The "other Porsche" looks a lot like the one in your avatar 
jim912928: I'm not sure how I'm going to handle the wiring yet. I too would like to eliminate the relay board. I hope when I get the Bently Carrera manual it'll have a decent wiring diagram.
There are two 3.2 conversions in my area that I know of. One of them lives less than 10 miles from me. I'm hoping to get a look at some of the details on those cars in the next week or two. I'll post the details as I sort them out.
Heck, the conversion can't be too hard can it? I'm thinking the motronic will want switched +12V connected here and there and there'll be a place or two to hookup some fuel lines.
Posted by: 736conver Sep 25 2005, 11:03 PM
The wiring is very simple. I got rid of my relay board when I had my 2.2.
Porsche didnt vary much from models and year when it comes to wiring.
Yellow still is starter
Black/violet is still tach
It just a matter of rearranging you 914 pins to the 3.2 pins.
There's a couple of sites if you get confused.
Also the Bentley manual is great and everything but the damn thing isnt even in color. I spent $80 for colorless diagrams, very dissapointed.
Here's a couple of sites with wiring. They are 911's but the same concept as colors dont change much
http://www.addictionmotorsports.com/WiringHarness.htm
http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/marcesq/Modifications.html
Posted by: ein 6er Sep 26 2005, 06:44 PM
you guys need to read http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=91684&highlight=motronic lots of good info and diagrams.
hope this helps!!
doug
Posted by: 736conver Sep 26 2005, 07:18 PM
I just read through that one a few days ago. Some good info. Most of it is in the Bentley. Always good reading can never get enough info.
Just put my 3.2 in this weekend. Hooking up a return fuel line right now. Back to work
Attached image(s)
Posted by: buck toenges Sep 26 2005, 07:34 PM
Guys, You can make or get somebody to make the connection harness so you can hook up the 3.2 engine harness to the 914 harness to eliminate the relay board. I think I got mine from Patrick motorsports. Jim Patrick was very helpful but then again I got most of my stuff including the 3.2 from him. I ran the motronic dme in where the center console is. I welded up a couple of brackets on the floor and under the dash to bolt the dme box up nice and snug. I cut out a hole in the firewall that was toward the pasenger side and slipped the dme harness through. I then ran the harness along the tunnel on the passenger side.
I also swapped out the oem maf with a pro m maf and steve wong chip. I am using a 901 that has a lsd,sportomatic ring and pinion and is a 4 speed. A 930 turbo 4 spped tranny or 915 is the best tranny to use but you can always use the 901 and forget to use 1st gear for awhile.
Buck
Posted by: Steve Sep 26 2005, 08:30 PM
I built mine about 5 years ago.
Awesome conversion with no regrets.
The 3.2 with the stock DME is a very reliable motor.
I'm running the stock trans with a KEP adapter and I have not had any problems so far.
I baby first gear and beat the crap out of 2-5.
Unless your into drag racing the 901 is fine.
Check out my blog for pictures.
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 26 2005, 10:53 PM
| QUOTE (Steve @ Sep 26 2005, 06:30 PM) |
| I built mine about 5 years ago. Awesome conversion with no regrets. The 3.2 with the stock DME is a very reliable motor. I'm running the stock trans with a KEP adapter and I have not had any problems so far. I baby first gear and beat the crap out of 2-5. Unless your into drag racing the 901 is fine. Check out my blog for pictures. |
Hey Steve! Member me? Metallic green 914 at the OCR AX a while back? I was hoping I could buy you lunch or sumthin and pick your brain on the conversion. I'm in Dana Point, not more than 10 miles from you.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 26 2005, 10:56 PM
| QUOTE (buck toenges @ Sep 26 2005, 05:34 PM) |
| Guys, You can make or get somebody to make the connection harness so you can hook up the 3.2 engine harness to the 914 harness to eliminate the relay board. I think I got mine from Patrick motorsports. Jim Patrick was very helpful but then again I got most of my stuff including the 3.2 from him. I ran the motronic dme in where the center console is. I welded up a couple of brackets on the floor and under the dash to bolt the dme box up nice and snug. I cut out a hole in the firewall that was toward the pasenger side and slipped the dme harness through. I then ran the harness along the tunnel on the passenger side. I also swapped out the oem maf with a pro m maf and steve wong chip. I am using a 901 that has a lsd,sportomatic ring and pinion and is a 4 speed. A 930 turbo 4 spped tranny or 915 is the best tranny to use but you can always use the 901 and forget to use 1st gear for awhile. Buck |
Yeah, PMS. They've been "away" and will be back tomorrow. I'll talk to them about this wiring harness. I'm going to order a couple of Gs worth of stuff from him anyway so whats another wiring harness going to add?
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: rcarpen22 Sep 27 2005, 02:39 PM
So speaking of 3.2 liter conversions and hot rod 914s in general (with Porsche engines), about how much are the conversions worth? I know it varies from car to car, but ballpark, what is the range for a well-done converted six in good condition with no major issues? I know it's less than an authentic six but I'm not sure how much.
Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 27 2005, 02:56 PM
| QUOTE (rcarpen22 @ Sep 27 2005, 04:39 PM) |
| ...I know it's less than an authentic six but I'm not sure how much. |
that may or may not be true...
"cars are original only once..."
an original /6 with the original tired 2,0 liter and 35-year-old everything may not be worth nearly as much as a freshly converted and restored car, except to the rare collector. if you replace the engine and uprate the transmission, suspension, and brakes of an authentic /6, it's no longer original.
there is the cachét of the VIN and the few subtle shell differences. but in the contemporary marketplace, nice well-done conversions seem to bring respectable prices that tired but all-original cars do not.
the very few museum pieces and high-dollar restorations are exceptions, of course, but they're sorare in the marketplace nowadays as to be noteworthy anomolies when they crop up.
Posted by: rcarpen22 Sep 27 2005, 04:23 PM
What subtle shell differences are there? I didn't know there were differences between the sixes and the early fours. I always thought the sixes looked better but I thought that was mostly due to the fuchs.
Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 27 2005, 04:30 PM
| QUOTE (rcarpen22 @ Sep 27 2005, 06:23 PM) |
| What subtle shell differences are there? I didn't know there were differences between the sixes and the early fours. |
motor mounts is the biggie that comes to mind...
Posted by: michel richard Sep 27 2005, 06:22 PM
| QUOTE (rcarpen22 @ Sep 27 2005, 02:23 PM) |
| What subtle shell differences are there? I didn't know there were differences between the sixes and the early fours. I always thought the sixes looked better but I thought that was mostly due to the fuchs. |
I've got an original /6 on the rotisserie and stripped, as I write this. Anybody has questions on the subltle differences and want pictures, now is the time.
The enigne mount, i.e. the /6 mount on the bulhead and the lack of the /4 engine mount towers are indeed the bigger things.
Two more things I have noticed: the /6 has a support for the oil line that goes from the bottom of the tank to the oil cooler.
I also think that the mount for the steering column is different.
It's not actually part of the frame, but th steel sub-dash is different.
If there's other differences, they are indeed subtle.
Michel Richard
Posted by: Steve Sep 27 2005, 07:46 PM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Sep 26 2005, 08:53 PM) | ||
Hey Steve! Member me? Metallic green 914 at the OCR AX a while back? I was hoping I could buy you lunch or sumthin and pick your brain on the conversion. I'm in Dana Point, not more than 10 miles from you. Later, Kevin |
I'm around on the weekend.
During the week I'm doing sales calls or at the office in Irvine.
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 27 2005, 07:49 PM
I was thinking about the -4 motor mounts. With the -6 they become the automotive version of a vestigle organ. Or do they? What use could be made of them since they no longer have to hang on to the engine? Tie down point, lift point, ....
IT didn't look like too big a deal to remove them either. Any practical benefit to doing that?
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 27 2005, 07:53 PM
| QUOTE (Steve @ Sep 27 2005, 05:46 PM) |
| I'm around on the weekend. During the week I'm doing sales calls or at the office in Irvine. |
Hey cool man. Could you PM your phone#?
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: Steve Sep 27 2005, 07:59 PM
| QUOTE (rcarpen22 @ Sep 27 2005, 12:39 PM) |
| So speaking of 3.2 liter conversions and hot rod 914s in general (with Porsche engines), about how much are the conversions worth? I know it varies from car to car, but ballpark, what is the range for a well-done converted six in good condition with no major issues? I know it's less than an authentic six but I'm not sure how much. |
Your looking at around 10k for the conversion plus the price of the car.
-$5-6k for just the motor and flywheel / clutch adapter.
Mileage and condition of the motor effect price.
-Headers and muffler or 914-6 heat exchangers
-Oil tank and lines
-911 or Boxster brakes
-911 Tach
-Richard Johnson mount or quick 6 bar
The RJ mount is needed if you want to run 914-6 heat exchangers.
-Straighten the shift linkage bar
-Gas shocks, stiffer springs and sway bars.
I built my car 5 years ago so I don't what the stuff is going for now.
Check out http://www.gprparts.com for prices or http://www.pelicanparts.com
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 27 2005, 08:03 PM
The first wave order went in today at Patrick Motor Sports. Motor mount, tin, and clutch package. Stuff that'll let me get the 3.2 mechanically mounted in the car. The 3.2 has shipped and may be at the freight terminal as early as this Friday!
We talked a little bit about the possibility of a wiring harness that goes Motronic->914. PMS does have one developed. I'll investigate it a little more after the mechanical hookup is complete.
By the way this guy James Patrick is VERY knowledgable about these conversions. He raised some issues that have long range ramifications that are good to be on top of at this stage. Like where will I put the oi tank - factory or front trunk...
Later
Kevin
Posted by: Steve Sep 27 2005, 08:41 PM
I forgot about the 914-6 sheet metal and PMS.
I used to live in Chandler AZ.
If your in AZ you have to visit Patrick Motor Sports.
Jim Patrick's shop is the cleanest shop I have ever seen.
He always has some ground up restoration 914-6 conversions in his shop.
I used to hang around his shop and druel over his work and customers cars.
Jim was always very helpful and full of good advice.
At the time I had a 2.7 six in my car that was over heating.
He set me up with the cooler, shroud and lines.
I also bought his boxed trailing arms and other stuff.
He is very knowledgeable on 914-6 conversions.
He is also a good source for suspension upgrades and brakes.
He also has allot of excellent condition used parts.
http://patrickmotorsports.com/
Posted by: JOHNMAN Sep 29 2005, 07:03 AM
| QUOTE |
| The 3.2 has shipped and may be at the freight terminal as early as this Friday! |
Wow!
Which year engine did you end up with? When I converted the track car to the 3.2, I obtained a Carrera wiring diagram and used most of the two Carrera wiring harnesses and stripped out the corresponding 914 wires. This totally eliminated the engine compartment relay board. In fact, all the wiring rear of the firewall is from the Carrera wiring harness (Tail-lights, back-up lights, Starter, etc.)
I mounted the DME and barometric sensor under the passenger seat.
I fabricated the firewall mounted engine support (works with a 914-6 engine mount). I am in the process of making motor mounts similar to the RJ unit now. (13 years ago, My dad and I came up with a very similar design after I built the one we currently use in the track car) I like the two bolt suspension method instead of the original 914-6 single bolt method.
I am also in the process of fabricating 914-6 sheet metal jigs for my brother and me.
I think I can get the 3.2 Air cleaner to fit under the engine lid by rotating the entire intake manifold 180degrees on the engine.
Good luck to you and your conversion.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Sep 29 2005, 07:06 AM
| QUOTE |
| I've got an original /6 on the rotisserie and stripped, as I write this. Anybody has questions on the subltle differences and want pictures, now is the time. The enigne mount, i.e. the /6 mount on the bulhead and the lack of the /4 engine mount towers are indeed the bigger things. Two more things I have noticed: the /6 has a support for the oil line that goes from the bottom of the tank to the oil cooler. I also think that the mount for the steering column is different. It's not actually part of the frame, but th steel sub-dash is different. If there's other differences, they are indeed subtle. Michel Richard |
Michael,
Could you post some pics of the oil line support, the bulkhead engine mount, and the general engine compartment in those areas? Or please e-mail them to me?
Thanks,
Posted by: 736conver Sep 29 2005, 12:01 PM
I dont think you have to flip the intake 180. If you put a tube betweeen the boot and the AFM it should fit. I am waiting on some materials to replace the rubber boot and extend the AFM so it does fit. I will post more once I finish.
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 29 2005, 04:30 PM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Sep 29 2005, 05:03 AM) | ||
Wow! Which year engine did you end up with? When I converted the track car to the 3.2, I obtained a Carrera wiring diagram and used most of the two Carrera wiring harnesses and stripped out the corresponding 914 wires. This totally eliminated the engine compartment relay board. In fact, all the wiring rear of the firewall is from the Carrera wiring harness (Tail-lights, back-up lights, Starter, etc.) I mounted the DME and barometric sensor under the passenger seat. I fabricated the firewall mounted engine support (works with a 914-6 engine mount). I am in the process of making motor mounts similar to the RJ unit now. (13 years ago, My dad and I came up with a very similar design after I built the one we currently use in the track car) I like the two bolt suspension method instead of the original 914-6 single bolt method. I am also in the process of fabricating 914-6 sheet metal jigs for my brother and me. I think I can get the 3.2 Air cleaner to fit under the engine lid by rotating the entire intake manifold 180degrees on the engine. Good luck to you and your conversion. |
It's out of an '85 with 77k miles.
What made you decide to run the Carrera wiring in the rear of the 14? Was the 14 wiring bogered or something?
Was thinking about a passenger side behind the seat mounting for the DME but but there was another post about it being placed under the dash board which sounds even more appealing to me.
What have you done with the oil tank? I'm considering the factory -6 location but there is a temping option with a front trunk tank (15QTS).
For a mount I'm using the Patrick Motor Sports mount. It allows that engine to pivot down at the mount. I think that it will be a nice feature for servicing the engine.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: jim912928 Sep 29 2005, 04:31 PM
Brian,
You are making good progress...I need to drive down the road your way soon and take a look at your setup. Hopefully I'll start pulling the motor out of my donor car in a couple of weeks.
Jim
Posted by: 736conver Sep 29 2005, 11:04 PM
Jim,
I'm on a little vacation next week. Going to try and finish it up, it all depends on if parts show up. Patrick Motorsports screwed up my order and only shipped half. Plus I know I will need something else, it always happens.
You more then welcome to come on over. Shoot me an email or PM if you want to.
Posted by: Steve Sep 30 2005, 08:40 AM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Sep 29 2005, 05:03 AM) |
| I think I can get the 3.2 Air cleaner to fit under the engine lid by rotating the entire intake manifold 180degrees on the engine. Good luck to you and your conversion. |
Check out my blog for pictures.
I modified the MAF with a tube and adapter from Home depot.
I also used L brackets from home depot to move the MAF over about 3 inches.
The stock air cleaner fits nicely under the lid.
Regarding the return oil line.
I bought mine from Patrick motor sports.
He takes a stock 911 line and cuts off the end and welds on a AN16 male fitting.
I also have an AN16 adapter on the oil tank.
Then all you have to do is make up a steel braided line to tie them together.
Posted by: kdfoust Sep 30 2005, 04:26 PM
I'm planning to buy the tach and the fuel pump from the wrecked Carrera for my conversion. Is there anything else I should get from that car? The 915 has already been sold.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: 736conver Sep 30 2005, 06:17 PM
I would try to get as many connecting fuel lines as you can. Saves you the hassle of trying to figure it out. I received a one with my pump and they fit my fuel filter perfect, plus it had the check valve. Didnt have to fab anything new up.
The check valve will cost you about $25 if it doesnt come with the fuel pump.
Posted by: Steve Oct 1 2005, 10:18 AM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Sep 30 2005, 04:17 PM) |
| I would try to get as many connecting fuel lines as you can. Saves you the hassle of trying to figure it out. I received a one with my pump and they fit my fuel filter perfect, plus it had the check valve. Didnt have to fab anything new up. The check valve will cost you about $25 if it doesnt come with the fuel pump. |
That's a good point.
Silver Star recycling in Sacramento also sold me the pump and all the fuel lines and fittings that they could remove from the car.
I also bought the Tach from them.
What are you doing for oil temp and pressure gauges?
I am using the combo gauge from an early 911 with the numbers on it.
Regarding the fuel gauge, I bought an aftermarket one from AA and installed it in the dash.
The MAF adapter parts were home depot.
The fuel fitting for the bottom of the fuel filter was from Pegasus.
They sell a gauge adapter kit that had a fitting in it that fit the fuel filter.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 1 2005, 10:47 AM
I was considering just adding seperate VDOs for the oil pressure and temp and placing them in the ash tray opening. The idea of using the combo gauge with a seperate fuel gauge sounds pretty appealing and a little cleaner.
I must be completely underestimating the fuel system for the 3.2. I figured that there'd be an in and an out. The Bently manual should be here on Monday so hopefully I can see what the deal is. Based on what you guys are saying I'll see if I can get all the fuel lines along with the pump and filter from the car.
Do you have to relocate the engine cover latch to fit the 3.2?
Regards,
Kevin
Posted by: ABC914 Oct 1 2005, 03:05 PM
A great project. Mine turned out the best. To see a history from beginning (1971), go to http://www.abc-digital-art.com and click on the tiny white dot on the left under the word "Mail".
1987 Carrera engine, big brakes, roll cage, chassis reinforcements, Boxster S transmission (no need to baby first and shifts so sweetly).
Good luck. These cars can do anything!
Posted by: redshift Oct 1 2005, 03:12 PM
Your car is beautiful... I want to steal it.
M
Posted by: Dr. Roger Oct 1 2005, 03:14 PM
| QUOTE |
| A great project. Mine turned out the best. To see a history from beginning (1971), go to My Webpage and click on the tiny white dot on the left under the word "Mail". 1987 Carrera engine, big brakes, roll cage, chassis reinforcements, Boxster S transmission (no need to baby first and shifts so sweetly). |
Oh yea'. Everyone (OK maybe just me) is drooling over his 914. Specially the tranny conv and those flares....
Gorgeous example of a 914 done right IMHO.
Posted by: 736conver Oct 1 2005, 03:16 PM
| QUOTE |
| Boxster S transmission (no need to baby first and shifts so sweetly) |
More details on the trans. Did you do it or did you farm it out.
Posted by: redshift Oct 1 2005, 04:00 PM
He paid someone! HAHAhahHAHAh
heh... 
M
Posted by: Steve Oct 1 2005, 06:02 PM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Oct 1 2005, 08:47 AM) |
| I was considering just adding seperate VDOs for the oil pressure and temp and placing them in the ash tray opening. The idea of using the combo gauge with a seperate fuel gauge sounds pretty appealing and a little cleaner. I must be completely underestimating the fuel system for the 3.2. I figured that there'd be an in and an out. The Bently manual should be here on Monday so hopefully I can see what the deal is. Based on what you guys are saying I'll see if I can get all the fuel lines along with the pump and filter from the car. Do you have to relocate the engine cover latch to fit the 3.2? Regards, Kevin |
You don't have to modify the engine lid.
Just move the air flow meter over 3"
The 3.2 fuel filter screws onto a fixed metal fuel line in the 911.
It was easier for me to just get a fitting from Pegasus and then slip rubber high pressure fuel line over it.
I like my combo gauge.
You can always get a combo gauge and then put a fuel gauge and voltmeter in the ashtray.
It was easy for me to just drill out the dash for the fuel gauge.
There are holes already there for extra switches.
I drilled out an extra hole and put in a voltmeter.
Wow that car is sweet.
I have never seen a 914 with a Boxster transmission.
I wonder what the cost diference is between that and a 916.
Its got to be cheaper, better shifting and less hassle.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 1 2005, 08:49 PM
| QUOTE |
| You don't have to modify the engine lid. Just move the air flow meter over 3" |
Hmmm.... The pics sure show it working out. I guess i'll look at doing that too. (Sure beats flipping the intake around 180)
I didn't put the DME under the dash because I kept the STOCK 911 DME wiring harness intact.
I used the 911 rear wiring harness, because it was easier to do that when I eliminated the relay board and the rest of the stock 914 harness. I stripped all the unused wiring out of the harness and assimilated the 911 harness into the remaining 914 harness.
Later I stripped all the front wiring out of the car (except for the fuel level wires and the fuel pump wires). Now the car only uses 3 fuses fuel pump, DME, and Brake Lights.
My street car will still be a street car (but with the big motor).
Posted by: Steve Oct 1 2005, 09:35 PM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Oct 1 2005, 06:49 PM) | ||
Hmmm.... The pics sure show it working out. I guess i'll look at doing that too. (Sure beats flipping the intake around 180) I didn't put the DME under the dash because I kept the STOCK 911 DME wiring harness intact. I used the 911 rear wiring harness, because it was easier to do that when I eliminated the relay board and the rest of the stock 914 harness. I stripped all the unused wiring out of the harness and assimilated the 911 harness into the remaining 914 harness. Later I stripped all the front wiring out of the car (except for the fuel level wires and the fuel pump wires). Now the car only uses 3 fuses fuel pump, DME, and Brake Lights. My street car will still be a street car (but with the big motor). |
If you look at most of the pictures of 3.2 conversions you will notice that they extended the air flow meter with a pipe and an adapter and moved it over.
PMS and GPR sell a kit for this.
I brought the air flow meter to Home depot to figure out the size of the pipe to extend it and the adapter required to do it.
I also used the stock DME and did not cut or modify the DME harness/cable.
There is a round indentation in the firewall behind the passenger seat.
I cut out the indentation and made the whole big enough for the rubber grommet of the harness.
I then routed the cable behind the seats and used one of the screws to hold the DME brain behind the drivers seat.
I'm 5'10" and I never put the seat all the way back anyway.
Some people cut the cable and put it behind the passenger seat but I didn't want to go through the hassle.
Posted by: ABC914 Oct 2 2005, 10:33 AM
| QUOTE (redshift @ Oct 1 2005, 02:00 PM) |
| He paid someone! HAHAhahHAHAh heh... :( M |
Absolutely correct! I paid someone. I'm not young enough to do this work myself. As it was, it took 18 months at a professional Porsche shop to do it. Time well spent, but still a lot of time. Let's not go into the expenses.
I could have bought a whole Boxster (used) surrounding the transmission for what it should have cost me.Bottom line, they did a great job at a severe discount that made it all worthwhile.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 4 2005, 10:41 PM
"It'll never fit."
-Robert
Ignoring Robert's input on the engine fit my plan is coming to fruition.
Mwahahahahaha!
The engine arrived today. Well, I should say that I went and fetched it today from the freight terminal.
I've got a crew lined up for this Saturday to install the beast. We've got three engineers, an HR professional, a logistics expert, a musician, and an IT geek. This doesn't include the random collection of neighbors that'll wander by. None of us have done this before. This will be one hell of a good time.
All the PMS stuff for the first phase arrived yesterday. Thats the engine mount (that cool PMS swiveling mount), the clutch/flywheel conversion pieces (KEP), and the engine sheet metal. I gotta get the mount bolted to the firewall in the car and the sheet metal fit up before Saturday morning. Tomorrow the engine mount is going in AND I still need to POR-15 the hell hole while it's easy to get to. The Bentley Carrera manual showed up today as well so I can start ciphering on the fuel lines and electrical hookups.
Later,
Kevin
Attached image(s)
Posted by: swood Oct 5 2005, 07:51 AM
Make sure you photo document the install for us to get inspired. You got me thinking about the 3.6
Posted by: swood Oct 5 2005, 08:37 PM
Do you also get to set up the a/c with that engine? That would be a bonus on top of the hp.
Posted by: redshift Oct 5 2005, 08:41 PM
If it won't fit, I think my car is the next size up.
Niceness.
M
Posted by: bd1308 Oct 5 2005, 08:44 PM
turbo, what the hell is that black thing???
Looks mean
Awesome!
b
Posted by: 736conver Oct 5 2005, 09:11 PM
Its an electric turbo 
Posted by: bd1308 Oct 5 2005, 09:13 PM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Oct 5 2005, 09:11 PM) |
| Its an electric turbo |
Only because I am gullible will I believe that.
Looks like a turbo.....
i dunno nuphin about dem 911s....
Posted by: 736conver Oct 5 2005, 09:15 PM
Its just the heater fan. Its the tubing that makes it look exotic.
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 5 2005, 09:26 PM
| QUOTE (michel richard @ Sep 27 2005, 05:22 PM) |
| If there's other differences, they are indeed subtle. |
flat black paint on the front shock towers, no hole in the front firewall for the windshield washer hose to the spare tire ...
Andy
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 5 2005, 11:47 PM
Naw, no AC. That would be trick wouldn't it! I did get the super cool Porsche die cast aluminum mount for the compressor. I will keep it just in case... 
Tonight I worked on installing the chassis side of the engine mount. The picture is sort of like an artists conception of what it will look like installed. I did pretty much empty the interior of the car (backpad and seats out) and drilled the mounting holes for the engine mount. It turns out that the firewall is a box section down low. There is about 1-1/2" air gap between the engine side and the interior of the firewall down low. I'll wait till the crew arrives on Saturday to actually mount everything since it'll be a three-handed-job.
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Posted by: 736conver Oct 5 2005, 11:52 PM
Are you going to try and git 'er done in one weekend with all your help. That would be cool.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 5 2005, 11:53 PM
The engine side of the mount doesn't quite fit correctly. 3 out of 4 holes line up perfectly. I need to open up one hole +1/16" so I don't risk boogering the thread in the case. I'm ask Jim Patrick about this tomorrow to see if he's seen this before.
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Posted by: 736conver Oct 6 2005, 12:00 AM
You know thats funny about that hole, mine was the same way. My mount wasnt a PMS mount though. It was homemade for my 2.2 and fit perfect. But when it was transfer to the 3.2 it didnt fit. I had to enlarge the hole. 
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 6 2005, 12:02 AM
Here's a look at the engine sheetmetal. The OE carrera engine sheet metal is the dirty stuff on the inside, the PMS -6 metal is around the outside in the corresponding locations. You can see that there are some holes and stuff that I need to add. Tomorrow evening I want to get the engine sheet metal fit up with all the needed holes. Actually when I first looked at it I though a mistake had been made. I can now see how this will go together.
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 6 2005, 12:14 AM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Oct 5 2005, 09:52 PM) |
| Are you going to try and git 'er done in one weekend with all your help. That would be cool. |
IT would be cool. One of the crew wants to do burn-outs in the street on Saturday night. If it was finished that quick I'd let him.
We will get the mechanical install completed Saturday. It'll take a little longer to get everything else hooked up. If I had all the pieces laid up at hand I think we could do the whole thing in a weekend. We've taken on pretty ambitous "tech sessions" (our word for various projects) and succeded. It might be fun to do the final hookups in a tech session later this month with the goal of everybody taking it for a spin in the evening.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: Steve Oct 6 2005, 04:36 PM
Best of luck with your project.
It looks great.
Let me know if you need anything.
I still have all my hand written notes about the electrical stuff.
I can also swing by with my car if you want to take a look at it.
Steve
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 6 2005, 06:40 PM
Hey thanks Steve. I do want to look at your car. You could swing by Saturday if you want to spectate or help. Otherwise I was planning to give you call and set something up so I could do a look-see at your car.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 6 2005, 09:42 PM
Kevin,
It's looking good. You are way ahead of me. I have a few other projects going on right now like reassembling old engines to get them out of the way....
I will be fabricating my engine mount soon, and I have not yet fabricated my sheet metal, but will be doing that shortly as well.
What oil tank are you planning on using? Are you mounting a front mounted cooler?
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 6 2005, 10:47 PM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Oct 6 2005, 07:42 PM) |
| Kevin, It's looking good. You are way ahead of me. I have a few other projects going on right now like reassembling old engines to get them out of the way.... I will be fabricating my engine mount soon, and I have not yet fabricated my sheet metal, but will be doing that shortly as well. What oil tank are you planning on using? Are you mounting a front mounted cooler? |
Hey John:
It's good see a few 14s survived in MO. I lived in Columbia for 13 years and saw very few. A co-worker had a very nice '73 2.0.
I'm undecided on the oil tank at this point. I am leaning towards a front-trunk mounted high capacity system since in the long view (3-5 years) this car will become more track than street. My thinking is that the front mount tank helps balance the car a little bit and once done makes a simple oil cooler installation. At 12-16 quarts it also would reduce the workload on the oil and to me that means the engine would run a little cooler.
BUT
I like the clean setup of the OE location and it doesn't take any space away like the front tank would. With the OE location I'd probably try to develop an effective oil cooler location in the rear of the car (NOT over the tranny though). As far as the actual tank I don't have any interest in paying for a OE -6 tank so one of the aluminum ones would be my choice.
In this region most of the tracks are located in miserably hot places so oil cooling will be paramount.
I've got a little time ( a week or two) to sort it out since I plan to hook up the fuel system after the mechanical install is completed. I'm definitely taking input on the whole oil system setup. How bout you? What's your oil tank setup going to be?
The -6 repro sheet metal leaves a lot to be desired IMHO. I just fitted it this evening after making a few simple mods to get it on the engine. The mods consisted of adding a few holes for sensor wiring to pass through. I was going around and checking all the fasteners and actually asked myself what purpose it will serve in this installation. I suppose it provides a seal between the fan side and the bottom side of the engine helping the air to flow through the right places. It does look pretty rinky-dink to me. Especially when you contrast it with one of Stutgart's finest engines...
Here's a digipic of the sheet metal installed along with the tranny just stuck on. I wanted to make sure that there weren't any surprises between the sheet metal and tranny.
Later,
Kevin
Attached image(s)
Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 6 2005, 11:13 PM
I am still undecided on the oil tank. I am leaning toward an aluminum repro tank. The track car (also a 3.2) has a front mounted Patterson Enterprises 4-gal round tank.
I want to mount a front cooler, but don't want to take much front trunk space as I want it to remain a street car, and I sometimes use the front trunk.
I compared pricing of an aftermarket aluminum tank to a round racing tank and it seems to be a tossup. When you add a racing filter setup to the round tank, the price is nearly what I could get an aluminum tank repro tank with filler neck and dipstick.
Good luck.
Perhaps I should take pics of where my project is at.......
Posted by: Steve Oct 6 2005, 11:27 PM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Oct 6 2005, 04:40 PM) |
| Hey thanks Steve. I do want to look at your car. You could swing by Saturday if you want to spectate or help. Otherwise I was planning to give you call and set something up so I could do a look-see at your car. Later, Kevin |
I have my daughters socker game at 11am on Saturday.
I could swing by in the afternoon and see how you guys are doing.
Posted by: 736conver Oct 7 2005, 07:52 AM
Kevin,
It looks like you still need to remove the exhaust. Are you doing that this weekend. Give those nuts a little soaking. Also if you dont have a oxy/act torch I would rent one. The last thing you want is a broken stud because the nut would come off. I heated mine up with a torch and they came off with little hassle. One started to twist but I just heated it up more and the nut came loose. Map or propane gas wont get hot enough.
Another thing did you get a acclerator cable from PMS or are you doing your own. Maybe Steve can also elaborate on what he has for accel cable. I tried using a 4 cable but its hanging up. I thinking of making it a little shorter and get another throttle return spring.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 7 2005, 08:57 AM
I'm planning to remove the exhaust once the engine is hanging in the car. It looks like everything will be in the clear. Oh wait, is the CAT going to be in the way of a trailing arm? If so, it's time for the sawzall to come out. 
I didn't want to put the engine on my engine stand at all. Unless we break something I'm not even pulling the spark plugs (knock on wood!). I was wondering about those bloody head stud nuts. If MAP isn't hot enough I'm gonna have to get my hands on a real torch I guess. I was thinking about getting one of the "plumber "mini oxy-acetylene setups anyway. I guess it's time.
I haven't sourced the throttle cable yet. Jim @ PMS mentioned it the last time we talked. I'll probably just buy his unless there's a better option out there. I can't wait to have a good look at Steve's car. I've seen it before but I've never looked at in detail. If Steve doesn't mind I'll probably take a bunch of digipix of his car that we can share.
I've got a short list for today to get ready for tomorrow:
1) Shorter engine mount bolts for engine side.
2) Open up engine mount hole that's in wrong place.
3) Read the Bentley on the flywheel/clutch setup.
4) Find the nuts and bolts for the starter and tranny.
5) Buy medicine for the crew (Guinness, Pacifico, Sam Adams)
6) Buy ICE.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: Steve Oct 7 2005, 10:05 AM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Oct 7 2005, 06:57 AM) |
| I'm planning to remove the exhaust once the engine is hanging in the car. It looks like everything will be in the clear. Oh wait, is the CAT going to be in the way of a trailing arm? If so, it's time for the sawzall to come out. :sawzall: I didn't want to put the engine on my engine stand at all. Unless we break something I'm not even pulling the spark plugs (knock on wood!). I was wondering about those bloody head stud nuts. If MAP isn't hot enough I'm gonna have to get my hands on a real torch I guess. I was thinking about getting one of the "plumber "mini oxy-acetylene setups anyway. I guess it's time. I haven't sourced the throttle cable yet. Jim @ PMS mentioned it the last time we talked. I'll probably just buy his unless there's a better option out there. I can't wait to have a good look at Steve's car. I've seen it before but I've never looked at in detail. If Steve doesn't mind I'll probably take a bunch of digipix of his car that we can share. I've got a short list for today to get ready for tomorrow: 1) Shorter engine mount bolts for engine side. 2) Open up engine mount hole that's in wrong place. 3) Read the Bentley on the flywheel/clutch setup. 4) Find the nuts and bolts for the starter and tranny. 5) Buy medicine for the crew (Guinness, Pacifico, Sam Adams) 6) Buy ICE. Later, Kevin |
Take all the pictures you want.
What time are you guys getting started tomorrow morning?
I could always swing by before socker practice.
Regarding the flywheel.
My KEP instructions said to shave the stock flywheel down to get rid of the groove.
I did this on mine and then just bolted the KEP ring, disk and pressure plate to the stock flywheel.
It was as simple as that.
It also said to take out the washer behind the throw out bearing ball pivot.
You also have to use there special throw out bearing.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 7 2005, 10:30 AM
| QUOTE (Steve @ Oct 7 2005, 08:05 AM) | ||
Take all the pictures you want. What time are you guys getting started tomorrow morning? I could always swing by before socker practice. Regarding the flywheel. My KEP instructions said to shave the stock flywheel down to get rid of the groove. I did this on mine and then just bolted the KEP ring, disk and pressure plate to the stock flywheel. It was as simple as that. It also said to take out the washer behind the throw out bearing ball pivot. You also have to use there special throw out bearing. |
What groove?
I better check the directions from KEP....
Posted by: Joe Sharp Oct 7 2005, 11:35 AM
Gosh, 2 engine parties tomorrow and I'm going to the races. DAMN!!!!
:PERMAGRIN: Joe
Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 7 2005, 11:37 AM
| QUOTE (Joe Sharp @ Oct 7 2005, 10:35 AM) |
| Gosh, 2 engine parties tomorrow and I'm going to the races. DAMN!!!! :PERMAGRIN: Joe |
which races joe?
Posted by: Joe Sharp Oct 7 2005, 12:32 PM
Thomas keeps telling me that there is an RR PCA A/X in San Berdo. we're loading the car tonight.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe
P.S. Sorry about the High Jack Kevin, I'll be watching this thread close.
Posted by: J P Stein Oct 7 2005, 04:31 PM
A couple pics of oil cooler/usable front trunk.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: J P Stein Oct 7 2005, 04:33 PM
And with the lid....which I no longer have use for, BTW.
It sits on the same shelf that the original sat on
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: Steve Oct 7 2005, 06:27 PM
[QUOTE=kdfoust,Oct 7 2005, 08:30 AM] My KEP instructions said to shave the stock flywheel down to get rid of the groove.
I did this on mine and then just bolted the KEP ring, disk and pressure plate to the stock flywheel.
It was as simple as that.
It also said to take out the washer behind the throw out bearing ball pivot.
You also have to use there special throw out bearing. [/QUOTE]
What groove?
I better check the directions from KEP.... [/QUOTE]
There's a circular groove in the flywheel.
The instructions said to shave the flywheel down and remove it.
I'm curious if other people shaved there flywheel.
I would check with GPR and PMS.
I still have clutch problems with my car.
The motor prior to the 3.2 was a 2.7 six motor with a stock 2.0 six flywheel.
It worked great and I was using a weltmeister clutch cable.
When I put in the 3.2 and KEP conversion I had problems with the cable stretching.
I switched over to a factory 914-6 clutch cable and the stretching problem went away.
The clutch tube has been welded and reinforced, so I don't think that is the problem.
Right now I have to push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor or it will grind when I go into reverse.
I put the motor in 4 years ago and I have not had the time to pull the tranny out to try to figure out whats wrong.
PMS and GPR said they have never ran into this problem.
I'm running the stage 2 from KEP.
PMS and GPR both recommend the stage 2 and have had no problems.
Regarding the throttle cable I am running a kit from Ottos that comes with a bell crank that mounts to the tranny and mimics the 914-6.
It also came with a 914-6 throttle cable.
It also uses the factory hard wire that goes from the motor to the bell crank.
I think the kit came with the hard wire.
My motor already had one on it.
I think PMS and GPR sell the same kit.
Probably Pelican to.
The factory 914-6 way works much better than jury rigging the 914-4 clutch cable.
The 914-6 way is much smoother.
The 914-4 cable seems to bind because of all the bends and is harder to push.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 7 2005, 07:15 PM
It was a bit of a panic this afternoon. If something on the flywheel was going to need machining I needed to get on it right away, cause the crew is gonna be here... So I pulled the stock pressure plate and clutch apart this evening, cleaned everything up and assembled the new KEP Stage 2 clutch, conversion pressure plate, and ring gear. Everything was a bolt up operation. It seems like it will work...
I talked to Jim Patrick this afternoon about the conversion clutch package. He said no machining was needed for 3.2 flywheels prior to the G50 tranny years. The only thing he said was that some different bolt lengths were required (easily solved - even though they were supposed to be in the kit). Steve, do you have a late 3.2? Maybe that's why you needed to do some machining.
Here's a digipic of the stock flywheel. I highlighted the only thing I could think of that could be considered a groove. This digipic is with the conversion ring gear also installed.
Later,
Kevin
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Steve Oct 7 2005, 07:45 PM
Yep that's the groove.
Per the instructions I shaved the flywheel to get rid of the ring.
My motor is a 1984, so its the 915 trans version.
1987 was the first year of the G50.
I wonder if shaving the flywheel is causing my problem with the clutch.
Patrick has done tons of conversions so I would take his word for it.
Posted by: 736conver Oct 8 2005, 12:15 PM
Updates.
Is it running yet. You guys have had at least a couple of hours.
Whats the hold up 
Posted by: brp914 Oct 8 2005, 02:33 PM
while waiting for everyone to show up, someone turned on the game, and while discussing how to proceed, they broke out the beer, then they got hungry so they ordered a pizza, and then fell asleep. forthcoming will be "a thread about nothing".
ok, just kidding, hope all went well. bring on the pics!
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 8 2005, 10:39 PM
We did in fact break out the beer and pizza but not until some of the heavy lifting was done. First thing this morning I couldn't get the CAT off. We had Robert (the official team blacksmithe) cut the HE pipes so the CAT could be removed using his handy dandy portable band saw. You guys better put one of those band saws on your Christmas list cause it's like a really smooth sawzall.
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 8 2005, 10:46 PM
We fitted the tranny, cutting the appropriate sensor notches and bolted everything up. A few things on the top of the engine were removed just to add some clearance for install. Here a few of the crew, Mike, Michelle, Robert, and I admire our work after rolling "the package" out into the driveway.
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 8 2005, 10:51 PM
Mike brought his enourmous truck jackstands over. We set the rear bumper at about 32" off the ground with almost no effort because we had dual floor jacks to raise and lower both sides of the car once. Here we've got the engine mounted in the front and we're considering removing part of the fuel rail in order to swivel the engine up into place in the rear. I'm sure from the front view we would have resembled the crew on a Dutch Masters cigar box.
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 8 2005, 11:01 PM
Yeah baby! That's the 3.2 fully mounted in the 14. I gotta tell ya we had a good time today. Two guys from the board were here (Steve, and Bottomend) plus three buddies from work and a neighbor. It made the job easy and we all had fun. I'm sure 7-1/2 hours of shoving-engine-in-car music from Led Zeppelin on the iPod didn't hurt either.
Steve let me take his 3.2 914 for a little spin after we'd tucked mine back into the garage. All I can say is WOW! That is one fun car. Just rapping it to 5500 it pulled hard and zipped up to 90 like nothing. I can't wait to get mine running.
I am pretty stoked. I picked this engine up last Tuesday from the freight terminal. Four days later it's mounted in my car. We're keeping on the git 'er done track!
A round for house!
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Posted by: 736conver Oct 8 2005, 11:27 PM
Looks good whats next..............
I just got my oil tank back tonight and I am hoping on Sunday morning to fire up my 3.2 conversion. Check my blog for updatess/pictures
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 9 2005, 12:41 PM
Well fire it up Brian. Put a video camera or a tape recorder on it so we can live too! I see from your blog that you've set up the OE-6 type throttle cable. I took a look at Steve's setup yesterday and like that a lot. It gives the cables nice straight runs and looks pretty much bullet proof. Here's a composite digipic from Steve's car showing the whole run. This is the steup I'll be using.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 9 2005, 01:42 PM
Today, post-hump day, the engine is in the car. This morning at the coffee shop where I hang out on Sunday mornings I was thinking about the little drive in Steve's car yesterday. It was a generous offer and I was glad to take him up. I had forgotten how raw the 14 was. It's been two years since I've driven mine. The steering is like a very sharp knife and the car goes where you point it. The power with the 914 3.2 reminds me of a type 964 RSA that's been "prepared." Except that Steve's car is a comfortable (for a 14) street car with a stock (euro) engine. It's that raw connection with the car that makes all the difference.
Rapping the engine to 5500, short shifting it, and doing it again lets the 3.2 torque do the work. This car is pushed hard (can't forget that engine BEHIND you) up through supra-legal speeds in no time. The rear end just hunkers down and digs. It's that ripping up asphalt feeling except it happens when you step on the gas not just the brakes. The car is pretty quiet until it starts to rap out. He's running a muffler that's look alot like what we called a turbo muffler back in my Detriot-iron days. It's pretty quiet at low flow rates but really lets it out when the flow gets demanding. They sound great on a built 289s, 440s and on Porsche 3.2 alike but don't attract undue attention at legal speeds.
For my project I'm tackling the fuel system next. I've got to source a fuel pump and filter. I'd already replaced the center tunnel lines with stainless steel. The fuel pump mount is already in the front trunk. I need to source the appropriate fittings for the stainless lines to the 3.2. I also need to get the bloody HEs off without boogering the exhaust studs.
Before all that, today I've got TIV parts to ship to people from the aborted engine project that started all this.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: Joe Sharp Oct 9 2005, 02:50 PM
We need a DWD smilie.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe
Posted by: Steve Oct 9 2005, 03:05 PM
I'm glad you enjoyed the drive.
Its a fun car I know you will be very happy with yours.
I can not believe how good of condition your car is in.
It will be a killer ride with the 3.2.
Try Partsheaven, Easy or Silver Star recycling for the rest of the used parts.
The part number for the male connector that will fit the 3.2 female electrical fuel injection connector is:
911.612.113.05
I paid $23.95 from Zims in Texas
817-267-4451 or 800-356-2964
Or www.allzim.com
I cut the plastic sheath back on the harness that goes to the relay board all the way back to the center of the car.
I separated the wires that went to the relay board and connected them to this new male plug.
I wrapped the remaining wires that connect to the tail lights with electrical tape.
I tossed the relay board and removed the mounts.
Here's a picture of the kit for the fitting on the bottom of the fuel filter.
I bought the kit from Pegasus.
Part number 1072 for $29.99.
1-800-688-6946 or www.pegasusautoracing.com
It comes with three fittings as show on the left in the picture.
I can't remember which one in the picture was the correct one.
As you can see in the picture the hole is really small so I drilled it out .
This adapter converts the metric fitting into a 1/8"-27 NPT.
I bought the 1/8" hose fitting from Pep boys and just slipped the high pressure fuel line over it.
There's probably a cheaper adapter out there.
I'm curious what GPR or PMS does.
Posted by: Steve Oct 9 2005, 03:07 PM
Here's the picture.
I don't know what happened the first time.
Its the three fittings on the left.
I can't remember which one of the three was the correct one.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: redshift Oct 9 2005, 03:33 PM
:envy:
Damn nice!
M
Posted by: 736conver Oct 9 2005, 07:23 PM
Well I missed getting mine started. jim912928 came over today to check things out. He's about to go down the same road.
I was about to crank mine up all I needed to do was add gas. Added some gas and I hear a dribble sound, crap!!!
I think I missed a hose clamp under the tank, or worse yet I missed a hose connection. Really didnt feel like going under the car with gas dripping out and about 1/2 gallon on the floor. It will half to wait.
| QUOTE |
| For my project I'm tackling the fuel system next. I've got to source a fuel pump and filter. |
Kevin you may want to check over on the bird board for your fuel pump, unless you have something local. I picked mine up for $35 came with the check valve too. The filter I bought new. No sense using a used one. A brand new one is about $20. Also the fuel pump works for a variety of models. So you might find one for cheap through the other models not just the 911.
Here's a list
911 Carrera (1984-89), 924S, 944 (1982-88), 944 Turbo.
Steve, here's a better picture of what you were describing.
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Posted by: Steve Oct 9 2005, 08:30 PM
Thanks Brian for the better picture.
The kit I bought was part number 1072.
Brian how did you connect the fuel line to the inlet side of the fuel filter?
I'm curious if there is a cheaper way than the $29.95 kit that I bought from Pegasus.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 9 2005, 08:55 PM
When I did my first 3.2 conversion, I had the hard lines from the 911 donor car in hand with the proper fittings for the fuel filter and the return line.
I took both of those tubes with fittings on them to the hydraulic hose shop and had them swage ss braided fuel hose onto the factory hard lines on one end and 37 degree JIC fittings on the other end. The remaining lines were done in a like manner, I took the fuel pump (with banjo fitting) up to the hose shop as well as the fuel tank return pipe, and had ss braided fuel hose swaged to each of the pipes.
This was 12-13 leak free years ago. It was expensive, but allows use of factory lines and filter and makes for a very clean installation.
On my current project, I also have the hard lines from the 911 donor car. I plan on running rebent factory 911 hard lines down to the center tunnel where they will connect to steel hard lines running through the center tunnel. I am planning on using rubber FI hose to connect to the bottom of the fuel tank and from the fuel pump to the hard line running through the center tunnel.
Posted by: 736conver Oct 10 2005, 07:26 AM
| QUOTE |
| Brian how did you connect the fuel line to the inlet side of the fuel filter? |
I dont understand why Porsche used all these crimp lines for something thats only 40PSI max.
Have you guys ever looked at the return line under the fuel rail. Its hose clamped on one side and then its crimped on the other side. I dont understand the reasoning behind this. Plus its a really sharp radius. I replaced this line and bypassed the fitting on the fuel rail all together. Now I have a bigger radius on the hose and dont have to worry about fittings on the return.
Here's a picture the yellow is my new line the red is the fitting I bypassed.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: 736conver Oct 10 2005, 07:31 AM
Kevin,
If you havent already you should look at all your fuel lines really good. The ones on the engine are notorious for cracking and leaking. Both of my lines were starting to crack. Its going to be hard for you to check the lines now that its in the car.
Out of curiousity did anyone else here get rid of the trunk torsion bars. I just removed mine a few days ago and its alot easier to get your hands back there now and work on things.
Posted by: Steve Oct 10 2005, 07:51 AM
My injections lines also hit the trunk torsion bars so I removed them and installed trunk shocks.
Posted by: Root_Werks Oct 10 2005, 08:32 AM
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 10 2005, 11:02 AM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Oct 10 2005, 05:31 AM) |
| Kevin, If you havent already you should look at all your fuel lines really good. The ones on the engine are notorious for cracking and leaking. Both of my lines were starting to crack. Its going to be hard for you to check the lines now that its in the car. Out of curiousity did anyone else here get rid of the trunk torsion bars. I just removed mine a few days ago and its alot easier to get your hands back there now and work on things. |
My trunk lid t-bars are on probation right now. I'll be in there messing around with the fuel lines that connects the two fuel rails across the back of the engine this evening. We had to remove that line to swivel the engine into place (remember I'm using the PMS swivel mount). After looking at Steve's car I think It's like 80% that I'm going to have to remove the trunk t-bars.
I inspected all the fuel lines that are on the engine and they all look just fine - no cracking and don't feel brittle at all.
The routing of the lines around the fuel rail IS bogus. I know that sharp bend you're talking about. At first I thought that something had been damaged in shipping causing a kink in line.
I'd like to put the fuel filter in the front trunk right next to the fuel pump. I've got the late model FP mounting blister. I thought I might be able to piggy back the filter onto the pump and have everything attached to the blister.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: 736conver Oct 10 2005, 12:39 PM
| QUOTE |
| I'd like to put the fuel filter in the front trunk right next to the fuel pump. |
Thats exactly what I did. Pump and filter are right next to each other.
| QUOTE |
| It's like 80% that I'm going to have to remove the trunk t-bars. |
Posted by: mikester Oct 10 2005, 03:57 PM
Okay, MAYBE I'm not too late.
Kevin; You must stop this madness.
The damage you're doing to your 914 is not reversible easily! MAN! Seriously.
I just...I just can't believe what you're doing...a 3.2 in the beautiful little razor of a car...
You have to make a choice. You have to choose what you're going to do; either you're going to continue on the path of doom you are on or....
.................you could give that 3.2 to me and put it in a tail dragger where it belongs.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 10 2005, 06:14 PM
He heh heheheh.
You ARE too late. The '14 has already put all taildraggers through the 996 on the menu. Every '11 prior to '84 will be an appetizer. '84-'96 elebens will be the main course with the 996 as desert. For an aperitif the 14 has specifically requested a 356, twin cam if possible, but it's not willing to wait so a speedster or "C" will do as well.
What have you been doing?
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: mikester Oct 10 2005, 07:13 PM
Keeping up with this...
Man...3.2....man... 
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 10 2005, 07:56 PM
It's green! I love it!
Congratulations dude. Say "hey" to Gwen for me.
Posted by: Gint Oct 10 2005, 09:27 PM
Great progress, but...
More PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 10 2005, 11:12 PM
Tonight I got rid of the trunk lid t-bars. They were TOTALLY in the way. I thought about just cutting them with a cut-off wheel but I was a little concerned that they'd snap and sort of spring around in there. I also thought about muscling them out, but after prying around on one of them decided that wasn't such a great idea either. It then occured to me that since they were steel a little heat could transform them to their lowest energy state. I got out my MAP torch and heated each one to red hot. It took about a minute of heating on each. Once they got to orange they started to relax. I took them on up to red and gave each of them a little pry while still red just to get plenty of play. After they were relaxed I cut them off with the cut-off wheel and threw them away. No drama, no pinched nothing.
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 11 2005, 11:06 PM
The Motronic arrived today. I spent most of the evening deciding where I'd mount the ECU and where I'd send the control wiring through the firewall. After holding the ECU all over the interior of the car from under the dash to the speaker enclosures to the rear firewall I finally decided to place it under the passenger seat up against the cross longitudinal rail. I'll have the raise the passenger seat 1/2" but that should be fine. One of the things that I need to account for in the location of the ECU is that fact that I'm having a roll cage installed. It will be a configuration like this: http://www.tcdesignfab.com/andy5.jpg on the passenger side. In the digipic you can also see the engine mount reinforcing plate which also want to avoid. Here's a digipic of the location where I'll be drilling through the firewall to get the wiring to the engine compartment.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: skline Oct 12 2005, 11:38 AM
Good progress Kevin, So does it run yet? When do we get to see the finished product? You need to start coming with us on some runs or join us for dinner sometime. Why dont you join us up at Hooters this month? It would be great to see you again. Last time I saw you was when we had lunch in Costa Mesa that time.
Posted by: Dr. Roger Oct 12 2005, 12:19 PM
3.6 w/EFI. Very nice. Do you know the weight compared to the stock engine? HP of new engine? Inquiring minds want to know.
I keep remembering that 3.0 I had in my MBZ and that was a real 145MPH car. Your 914 has got to really move.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 12 2005, 08:41 PM
Kevin,
Did you remove the Aux heater blower and related plumbing?
If so, do you need one of these?
I'm making up a few now so if you (or anyone else) wants one, let me know. I'm thinking $40.
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Posted by: 736conver Oct 12 2005, 11:02 PM
I'm in. I need on of those.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 12 2005, 11:22 PM
HOOTERS!? I'll track down that thread and see if I can make it!
For a completion target I'm aiming at driving it the first weekend of November.
The engine is a stock '85 Carrera U.S. engine. Porsche claims like 207 HP, 197 ft-lbs of torque. I'm not sure about what the respective weights of the TIV or the 3.2 engines. It's not V8 horsepower but it'll be fun!
Hey John. I put the blower snorkel back on the engine with the plan of just closing it off with a cover plate where the blower would attach. Your close off plate would help clean up the engine compartment. Why don't you put me down for one?
Tonight was a short evening for wrenching as I got tangled up at work and didn't even get home till 6:30 (norm for me is around 4-4:30). I almost vegitated and watched TIVO all evening but got 14 out anyway. If I'm gonna git 'er done then I gotta stay on it. I poked the motronic harness through the rear firewall tonight. I decided there was no good reason to bring the cabling in low like I had previously indicated. So I moved it high. But, I flaked and put the first hole darn near under where the roll cage cross brace will be. 
I decided to move it higher and punched another hole for that. So now Robert the "blacksmithe" of the crew gets to weld on my car. He's been wanting to replace my battery tray anyway. I guess I'll get him to do the battery tray and have him weld in a plug at the same time. Having a welder living next-door in pretty handy. 
While I haven't called every supplier in "the book" it seems that the repro -6 (aluminum) oil tanks are out of stock everywhere. One supplier told me that the tooling had been purchased from Velios by another person who's not had any interest in making another run of the tanks. This means that I've struck a dry well. 
I am NOT signing up for another bloody wait list either! In the spirit of git 'er done I've decided to go with a front trunk tank. Since the car will be an AXer for the next year whilest I sort things out I hadn't planned to install an oil cooler right away. Now since I'll already be running some plumbing to the front trunk anyway I may go ahead and add the cooler "while I'm at it." Either way cooler or no here's the oil tank or something like it http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/img/parts/401.jpg
I'm looking at the picture of my car and wondering what the heck that wet spot under the car is from. That'll give me something to do...
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: Steve Oct 13 2005, 07:21 AM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Oct 12 2005, 06:41 PM) |
| Kevin, Did you remove the Aux heater blower and related plumbing? If so, do you need one of these? I'm making up a few now so if you (or anyone else) wants one, let me know. I'm thinking $40. |
Johnman
Put me down for one also.
Thanks!!
Kevin,
Did you try Otto's for the tank?
He used to have a stash of factory ones.
Did you also try our favorite supplier Auto Atlanta? LOL.
Just curious.
Regarding the oil cooler if you want to go with the GT shroud Getty sells the two piece kit.
You can also get the complete kit with cooler from PMS.
I already had the two piece shroud from Getty so I just bought the cooler from Jim.
Posted by: Joe Sharp Oct 13 2005, 07:45 AM
Hey Kevin: Like this of Joe O'Brians?
:PERMAGRIN: Joe
P.S. I have a stock one that I can loan you till you get one if you need it.
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Posted by: JmuRiz Oct 13 2005, 09:34 AM
Kevin,
Contact Bill Jay (aka 1973914), he has a front mount oil-tank for sale in the classified section. You could even polish it up to make it look cool like Joe's. The price is right, he has AN fittings and stuff too.
Posted by: mikester Oct 13 2005, 01:45 PM
The wet spot is "anticipation" dude.
You're car's wet for that 3.2.
I feel dirty.
Posted by: Gint Oct 13 2005, 04:28 PM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Oct 12 2005, 08:41 PM) |
| Kevin, Did you remove the Aux heater blower and related plumbing? If so, do you need one of these? I'm making up a few now so if you (or anyone else) wants one, let me know. I'm thinking $40. |
What, exactly, is that? I'm trying to figure out if I need one too!
Posted by: Steve Oct 13 2005, 07:31 PM
It fits behind the distributor and replaces the plastic heater duct off of the fan.
It makes the installation allot cleaner by removing all the heater hoses and heater motor if you don't have heat exchangers.
Posted by: Twystd1 Oct 13 2005, 08:02 PM
I am definetly up for that sheet metal..
If yer gunna do it.. I'm in...
Now how do I get Slits to pay for it..
I will follow this thread and see if it goes anywhere..
By the way... Very nice work..!!! 
twystd1
Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 13 2005, 10:05 PM
Kevin,
I really did not mean to hijack your thread.
Anyone wanting the sheet metal, please PM me for arrangements.
I will be posting a new thread advertising these block off plates.
John
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 13 2005, 10:29 PM
Hey Joesharp. That is an incredibly generous offer on the oil tank! Thank you. But I do hate to do and re-do so I'm gonna just get the front tank like O'Brians.
With the repro (Velios) tank on NLA status I can only imagine what OE-6 tanks will bring. 
Last time I looked they were like $900. That just doesn't matter enough to me (at least not $900 worth anyway). I was leaning towards the front trunk tank anyway and this just NLA on Velios tanks just resolves it for me. Tomorrow I'll order oil stuff from PMS and the cooler shroud from Getty. I like that Getty cooler setup because it makes a real clean install.
Tonight I started hooking up the wiring in the engine compartment. I hate to hex the project but so far the wiring seems pretty rudamentary. With the Bentley manual's electrical schematics things are pretty straight forward to sort out. I've got to get a bunch of adel clamps and wiring loom on the way home tomorrow. I want to finish all the electrical connections integrating the 3.2 into the 14 this weekend and start putting the interior back together.
Later,
Kevin
Pretty colors.....
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 13 2005, 10:38 PM
Hey Gint. The plate covers the hole that is left in the fan shroud when you remove the big snorkel looking thing. That's the snorkel with the two yellow stickers in this digipic. Of course you need one.
No worries John.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: 736conver Oct 13 2005, 11:21 PM
Kevin,
The wiring is pretty easy. Its almost comes down to match the colors. A mistake I made was hooking the black wires from the DME to a hot when the iginition was on. They need to be hooked up to hot when starting and ignition on. Otherwise you wont get any spark during cranking.
Right now I cant get mine started. She wants to fire but it just wont go. Almost like I am not getting enough fuel. I have to do some more trouble shooting this weekend.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 16 2005, 01:16 AM
I've been making good progress the last two days. Yesterday I hacked the old battery tray out of the engine compartment so I can relo the battery to the front trunk. That also makes a lot more room for "stuff" in the engine compartment. I clamped the motronic harness down in the engine compartment and routed all the wiring to various engine sensors. Today I picked up the 14 pin Porsche connector that Steve refered to in one of his posts. I did some translations between 3.2 and 914 to eliminate the relay board. If it turns out that it works right I'll post the schematic. I also added a couple of new wires to the harness for the oil temp and oil pressure gauge (I didn't have one on the -4). It turns out to have taken most of the afternoon to get all this done. Tomorrow I want to finish running all the wiring that integrates the 3.2 into the 914.
Here's what it looked like sorting out the pin-outs and getting ready to resolder the connector.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 16 2005, 09:05 PM
I managed to get a cold yesterday. It's making the conversion go slower...
Today I got out there anyway after having a coffee and reading the LA Times and started anchoring the motronic, the DME relay, and the altitude sensor. I also started running the in the cabin wiring. Man that old 914 wiring is still pretty good althought it's pretty darn dusty under the dash. While I was under there I decided that I'd order one of the JWest Engineering replacement fuse boxes for a later install during the sort-out period. I've got everything roughed in in the cabin and just need to start terminating wires (there are like 6 or so to deal with). I'm a recent convert to heat shrink tubing for wiring. A while back I did an in-car video installation in "the other Porsche" and realized that heat shrink tubing makes the wiring job look so much more finished.
Here's what I did with the Motronic 14 pin connector and the 914 14 pin connector. The motronic side of the equation came from information http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/marcesq/Modifications.html. I ciphered on the 914 side myself with the Haynes manual. I'd welcome any comments on this conversion cause I'd hate to let the smoke outa that there motronic box...
Later,
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Posted by: Gint Oct 16 2005, 09:43 PM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Oct 13 2005, 10:38 PM) |
| Hey Gint. The plate covers the hole that is left in the fan shroud when you remove the big snorkel looking thing. That's the snorkel with the two yellow stickers in this digipic. Of course you need one. No worries John. Later, Kevin |
Thanks. I don't need one though 'cause I'm not doing a 3.2... yet.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 16 2005, 10:04 PM
I was just digging through some old Up-Fixin der Porsche and found this on the relay board pin-outs.
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Posted by: 736conver Oct 16 2005, 11:19 PM
I also decided on doing the fuse upgrade but instead of buying someones kit I am going to do mine myself. The ATO fuse boxes only cost $10 a piece. A lot better then spending $100. I am sure its a great kit but if I can do it myself I 'm all over it.
What is your target date to fire it up.
Not to rub it in or anything but I just took my 3.2 for its first ride today. WooWee its fast!!! Now I'm parking it the garage and going to clean up a few things.
Its hibernation time here.
Posted by: Steve Oct 16 2005, 11:19 PM
I connected my yellow wire to the actual starter wire.
I noticed you mapped the yellow wire to the ignition wire.
If I remember correctly the DME uses the yellow wire for cold starts.
Posted by: 736conver Oct 16 2005, 11:48 PM
I think he's got it right Steve.
The yellow comes from the 914 ignition switch and goes to the starter via the 3.2 harness.
There's another yellow wire off the DME harness that needs to know when your cranking so the fuel pump goes on, I think thats what you might be thinking about.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 17 2005, 08:02 AM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Oct 16 2005, 09:19 PM) |
| I also decided on doing the fuse upgrade but instead of buying someones kit I am going to do mine myself. The ATO fuse boxes only cost $10 a piece. A lot better then spending $100. I am sure its a great kit but if I can do it myself I 'm all over it. What is your target date to fire it up. Not to rub it in or anything but I just took my 3.2 for its first ride today. WooWee its fast!!! Now I'm parking it the garage and going to clean up a few things. Its hibernation time here. |
You drove it! Outstanding. What was causing the no-fire-up? I still have by the end of October for the first fire up and first weekend of November as first drive.That's a good point about the fuse panel. I'd like to add a four spare fuses while I'm under there anyway. I guess it's hard to beat rolling your own. One way or another those old fuses are going to have to go. I may want to run a Targa or something in this car and I don't want to be messing around with electrical problems caused by faulting fuses.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: 736conver Oct 17 2005, 08:41 AM
| QUOTE |
| You drove it! Outstanding. What was causing the no-fire-up? I still have by the end of October for the first fire up and first weekend of November as first drive. |
Would you believe it was just some misc manifold leaks. After I plugged them she fired right up. I can just tell this is going to be a nice running motor compared to my 2.2 I had. She starts right up. No pumping the pedal.
Its too bad I didnt get a longer drive out of it though. Maybe I will get lucky and get a few nice days before it really gets crappy.
Hopefully my fuse boxes show up soon too. I already torn mine apart electrically waiting for reassembly
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 19 2005, 12:53 AM
I made the (almost) last connections for the electrical system this evening. The only wiring left is to jump out to the fuel pump in the front trunk. I'd would've done that this evening but I wanted to use 14ga wire and an inline fuse holder. Neither were in my stock of electrical stuff. So that'll wait til tomorrow.
I got a major shipment today. All the oil stuff came in! I haven't sourced all the fittings and hose yet, I thought I'd wait until everything was mounted before I did that. The unavailability of the repro -6 oil tanks isn't an issue now...
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Posted by: DrifterJay Oct 19 2005, 01:09 AM
whats your source for these parts? PMS?
and what did you end up getting for the oiling system, I am figuring out what to do with mine...gonna be there in about 3 months...
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 19 2005, 02:29 PM
| QUOTE (DrifterJay @ Oct 18 2005, 11:09 PM) |
| whats your source for these parts? PMS? and what did you end up getting for the oiling system, I am figuring out what to do with mine...gonna be there in about 3 months... |
I was going down the path of a front mounted tank (like O'Brian's that Joe Sharp posted) hence the digipix from yesterday. Today I just found a source for an OE repro tank and associated hardware. So there's a reasonable chance that some of the front tank hardware will be going back and the repro -6 hardware will coming in. Or not.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 19 2005, 10:42 PM
Okay. I'm done with this oil thing. You can get your hands on repro tanks now but I don't care. I'm installing all the stuff I bought and I'm gonna like it.
Tonight I pulled the driver's side heat exchanger so I could get the engine oil cooler off for modifications. We all know what that means: "exhaust studs."
Ever since I've been monkeying around with cars and talking to people about it, pulling headers or manifolds or heat exchangers has always carried the baggage of past broken head studs. It's happened to everyone at least once. Sometimes you don't care. Like when I was in high school and broke a stud off an exhaust manifold on the 289 in my truck. With the blown out muffler I doubt that anyone even noticed the minor exhaust leak. On the 3.2 I want things to be pretty san-o so pulling the HE was just patient work. Even though the nuts look like they'd been found on the Titanic and then installed on this car they came off pretty easy with some heat from the MAP torch. One stud backed out and I can live with that. Nothing broke.
Now the engine cooler goes out to have a -16 AN fitting welded on the pipe so I can connect to it with commonly available hoses and fittings. The clearance between the pipe and the trailing arm is a little close so the pipe also gets shortened up a bit to help clear things. I've heard that the length is fine and the oil line will only rub the trailing arm occasionally. On that count it's all this simple to me: I don't want to BE THE GUY WHO OILS DOWN THE TRACK! Everybody has seen this happen. It's a sad hour for everyone.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: BMartin914 Oct 19 2005, 10:50 PM
| QUOTE (Gint @ Oct 16 2005, 07:43 PM) | ||
Thanks. I don't need one though 'cause I'm not doing a 3.2... yet. |
Gotta fix those case bolts on the 2.7 yet, eh?
Posted by: 736conver Oct 19 2005, 11:24 PM
That kicks butt on the exhaust studs/nuts. I'm glad they came off for you.
I would imagine you have the thick flanged exchangers too. You will need some spacers or washers when you put your new headers on. Just something to keep in mind if your order parts or going to the hardware store for parts.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 20 2005, 02:09 PM
I'm curious,
What did you guys do with your alternator pulley? Did you cut the outer pulley off, or was there room between the pully and your engine sheet metal?
I ended up removing the AC portion of my pulley as there would have not been enough room to get a fan belt on/off.
A pic of yours would help a bunch.
Thanks
John
Posted by: Steve Oct 20 2005, 07:22 PM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Oct 20 2005, 12:09 PM) |
| I'm curious, What did you guys do with your alternator pulley? Did you cut the outer pulley off, or was there room between the pully and your engine sheet metal? I ended up removing the AC portion of my pulley as there would have not been enough room to get a fan belt on/off. A pic of yours would help a bunch. Thanks John |
I swapped it with a non AC pulley.
The RJ motor mount that I originally bought would not work with the AC pulley.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 20 2005, 09:28 PM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Oct 20 2005, 12:09 PM) |
| I'm curious, What did you guys do with your alternator pulley? Did you cut the outer pulley off, or was there room between the pully and your engine sheet metal? I ended up removing the AC portion of my pulley as there would have not been enough room to get a fan belt on/off. A pic of yours would help a bunch. Thanks John |
The sheetmetal will make it a little bit of a wrestle to get a belt on/off but I think it'll be doable. The engine mount didn't interfere with the pullies. Next time I'm under the car I'll take a digipic of the setup.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 20 2005, 09:29 PM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Oct 19 2005, 09:24 PM) |
| That kicks butt on the exhaust studs/nuts. I'm glad they came off for you. I would imagine you have the thick flanged exchangers too. You will need some spacers or washers when you put your new headers on. Just something to keep in mind if your order parts or going to the hardware store for parts. |
Yeah, good point on the thick flanges and spacers. Those go on the list.
Kevin
Posted by: 736conver Oct 20 2005, 11:08 PM
| QUOTE |
| I'm curious, What did you guys do with your alternator pulley? Did you cut the outer pulley off, or was there room between the pully and your engine sheet metal? I ended up removing the AC portion of my pulley as there would have not been enough room to get a fan belt on/off. A pic of yours would help a bunch. |
i ended up mushing that part of the pulley into itself. It looks really good like it was design that way. Sorry no pics of it though. Kind of hard to take a pic of it right now, being installed.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 21 2005, 06:12 AM
| QUOTE |
| The sheetmetal will make it a little bit of a wrestle to get a belt on/off but I think it'll be doable. The engine mount didn't interfere with the pullies. Next time I'm under the car I'll take a digipic of the setup. |
Yup. My copy of the 914-6 sheet metal was too close to the AC pulley to get a belt through there, but everything did clear. I ended up cutting the AC pulley off and turning the rest down on my lathe.
I was just curious as to how close I came with my home made sheet metal. It sounds like I was pretty close.
(Nearly completed sheet metal)
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 24 2005, 10:51 PM
The clock is ticking. November is coming on quick. I want to be driving this puppy in November!
I've got a driving school this Saturday and a business trip starting Sunday that'll take out a whole swath of wrench time. Then even worse yet I'm off to Willow Springs for the last POC STS weekend of the year the first weekend of November. I'm going to be down from wrenching for 7 days coming soon. 
So I continue to work consistently on the project...
I've completed the engine compartment wiring and the wiring in the passenger compartment. I ran a big a**ed 4 gauge cable from the starter to the front trunk for the new battery location. I've got a -6 tach and a new combo gauge with oil pressure and temp. The oil cooler is out having a -16AN fitting welded on. Tomorrow I order the Getty oil cooler shroud. Tonight I was sorting out the location for the various oil system components in the front trunk. I was on the fence about the http://www.odysseybatteries.com/accessories/pc680hd.htm but I've made up my mind. I'm putting the Odyssey in because it fits so much better than the old battery with the layout. Check out the four basic locations I went through for the major pieces. You have to picture the Getty Design oil cooler shroud in place in the center of the trunk as well. The Odyssey Battery is so thin (3.1") that I could mount it on top of the oil cooler shroud if I want. Option 4 is my choice. The white box represents the Odyssey battery. The red wire laying on the floor of the trunk is from the front trunk mount fuel pump relo.
It looks like I'm gonna miss the first weekend of November for the first drive and I'm disappointed by that. But driving is my "thing" the whole reason for building this insane little car so there's no way I'm missing the school or the POC weekend.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 24 2005, 11:54 PM
I like option 1. It keeps the majority of weight closer to the front axle instead of moving it even further forward. It's laid out similar to our track car.
Posted by: J P Stein Oct 25 2005, 02:20 AM
The great things about the Oddessey battery is that it's small and light....you can put it about anywhere. There is no "Where do I put 38lbs" thing as it weighs 13 lbs.I put mine here.
I was able to use a single strap as there is an upset formed into the trunk floor in just the right spot.that keeps it from sliding sideways.
This also makes for short wire runs...less weight, less resistance.
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 25 2005, 07:55 AM
Hey JP, so you're spinning a 2.7 with the Odyssey. What the heck is that thing on the left side of your trunk?
I did a quick run through the weight distribution on the car making some assumptions like the car wieghed 2100# originally and was 48/52 wt dist. By adding the 3.2 the distribution shifts from 48FR/52RR to 46FR/54RR. With a heavy battery (38#) located in the front trunk and all the other oil stuff I estimated the weight distribution to be at 47.5/52.5. So part of my motive was to keep the car as close to balanced as I could. Not that it matters all that much, since I'll sorting ot the suspension all over again anyway. But, It's not supposed to be a taildragger...
Later,
Kevin
PS Do you guys think the ducktape will get through tech inspection? 
Posted by: Series9 Oct 25 2005, 08:11 AM
Oil 1:
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Posted by: Series9 Oct 25 2005, 08:12 AM
Oil 2:
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 25 2005, 09:07 AM
Hey Joe. That's one heck of an oil cooler. So I reckon that fan is pushing air out of the trunk? I notice that you've got the oil filter in front. Why did you make that choice? I was planning to put it on the engine compartment firewall low and on the driver's side http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/cgi-bin/main?action=photo&id=4&p=28 I guess I hadn't given the filter location a lot of thought... 
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: Series9 Oct 25 2005, 09:14 AM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Oct 25 2005, 08:07 AM) |
| Hey Joe. That's one heck of an oil cooler. So I reckon that fan is pushing air out of the trunk? I notice that you've got the oil filter in front. Why did you make that choice? I was planning to put it on the engine compartment firewall low and on the driver's side http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/cgi-bin/main?action=photo&id=4&p=28 I guess I hadn't given the filter location a lot of thought... Later, Kevin |
It doesn't matter where you put the filter. Just somewhere in the scavenge line.
The 3.6 has an on-engine filter too (stock), which replaces the on-engine oil cooler. Hence the size of the front cooler.
Posted by: J P Stein Oct 25 2005, 04:49 PM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Oct 25 2005, 05:55 AM) |
| Hey JP, so you're spinning a 2.7 with the Odyssey. What the heck is that thing on the left side of your trunk? |
A puke botttle.....the hose from the tank was not hooked up at that time.
Inside is a breather/filter. I've seen too many breathers exposed in compartments....engine and trunk.... that were saturated with oil and were then doing an oil down on the whole area. I puke out 4-8 ozs of oil at a typical AX. The lid of the mixed nuts bottle is vented but with a foam insert under the lid to knock down more vapor. On the street & track, it stayed dry, so it is prolly overkill if that is all you're going to do.
I've theroized that AX gets the oil in the tank sloshing (it gets me sloshing:D ) around and it then gets caught up in the airflow of 6/7K rpm windage.
That Odyssey has given me no troubles. It cranks the motor over well.....my car sits up to a month between starts. When it sits for more than a week, I spin it over for 30-50 sec to pump some of the oil out of the sump & into the tank before trying to start it. It seems to be kept charged by AXing only.....surprised me. I think the short lines help.
50-50% weight would be nice, but I gave up worring about that in the pursuit of lightness......and it's easy to take weight off the front so it comes from there or nowhere.
I put a 5 gal gas tank on the floor where you have the oil tank...weight up high is bad, too. I'm thinking of taking 30 or so pounds off the top of my cage.....but putting it back in below dash level.
Posted by: J P Stein Oct 25 2005, 05:02 PM
My thinking on the locations of the various oil system locations is to pump unregulated cold oil the least distance possible.
When I was doing front cooler, I talked (email) with a racer that had rigged a pressure gauge on the scavenge side.
He said be had seen 165 psi during cold starts.
My cooler was supposedly good to 300psi.....before it blew on a cold start. The Thermostat was plumbed wrong....feeding cold oil to it and "other stuff".....not my finest moment 
If you ever get to fool with a 911 oil pump, you'll see what an efficient little bastard it is. It looks like a tenth scale 6-71 blower.
Posted by: kdfoust Oct 31 2005, 12:39 AM
Yesterday I was at an Evolution AX driving school in Fontucky (Fontana). I took the "other Porsche." While it's a fun car we all know that the 14 is the tool for AX. Part of the course had a seven cone slalom that would have been taken WFO in the 1.7 version of the 914. With the 3.2 version I'm sure that I'd have to do some pedalling to keep everything hooked up. The "other Porsche" needed some pedalling...
I've been working on the oil system. I finally found a location for the filter that makes me happy. I've got those worthless -4 engine mount brackets on the frame doing absolutly nothing now with the -6 installed. I'm mounting the oil filter inside of u-shaped bracket that is the -4 engine mount. The firewall mount was just in the way of too many things, including the proportioning valve, the e-brake cabling, and the heater hose. I'll have to fabricate a mounting bracket for the filter housing and weld that bracket to the engine mount dingus.
I was sizing up the oil cooler opening and exit ports as well as looking over the Getty -6GT oil cooler shroud. The cover part of the Getty is pretty obvious as to the fit in the car, however, the 2nd part is a little less obvious. It really doesn't seem to fit my car well at all. Remembering that I've got an early car ('72) I'm a little puzzled by the shape and fit of 2nd part. Anybody got any experience with this setup and some pictures that show the two pieces and how they're mounted together. Here's my guess. It looks like I need to do a little glass work to fill in gaps and such...
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: Steve Oct 31 2005, 01:18 AM
Here's a picture that shows where the second piece goes.
It just lays on the trunk floor between the front and rear cutout.
Its easy to figure out the cutouts by just laying this piece in the trunk.
I first put in the big part that covers the oil cooler and used a permanent black marker to draw around it.
I then took out the big part and laid the smaler part in the trunk floor.
Its pretty obvious where you need to cut by comparing the black marker to where the second piece is laying.
The second part is used to guide the air out the back opening.
These pictures are from a real six being converted to a GT.
So they should be the same as your car.
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Posted by: Steve Oct 31 2005, 01:20 AM
Here's a picture without the piece in place.
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Posted by: Steve Oct 31 2005, 01:24 AM
Another good picture without the parts in place.
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Posted by: Steve Oct 31 2005, 01:26 AM
Here's a shot from the front.
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Posted by: kdfoust Oct 31 2005, 11:34 AM
Ohhhh. The bottom piece actually extends forward to meet the cutout in the valance? Wow, that's not I pictured at all. I hadn't planned to slot all that out, I was just going to use the existing holes in the body work.
Kevin
Posted by: maf914 Oct 31 2005, 12:37 PM
| QUOTE (914RS @ Oct 25 2005, 06:11 AM) |
| Oil 1: |
Joe (914RS), Nice looking work in the front trunk. I noticed that you don't have a rubber weather strip in the front lid channel. With your fan arranged to exhaust air from the trunk, creating a low pressure area in the trunk, and through the oil cooler, I wonder how much air is being drawn from around the hood. If you ever have a temperature problem you might consider some type of weather strip for the channel to seal off this air and restrict air flow to the coooler only. That looks like a pretty good sized cooler so this may not be a problem. Just a thought.
Posted by: Series9 Oct 31 2005, 03:52 PM
| QUOTE (maf914 @ Oct 31 2005, 11:37 AM) | ||
Joe (914RS), Nice looking work in the front trunk. I noticed that you don't have a rubber weather strip in the front lid channel. With your fan arranged to exhaust air from the trunk, creating a low pressure area in the trunk, and through the oil cooler, I wonder how much air is being drawn from around the hood. If you ever have a temperature problem you might consider some type of weather strip for the channel to seal off this air and restrict air flow to the coooler only. That looks like a pretty good sized cooler so this may not be a problem. Just a thought. |
There's a seal on it now.
Posted by: Steve Oct 31 2005, 11:27 PM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Oct 31 2005, 09:34 AM) |
| Ohhhh. The bottom piece actually extends forward to meet the cutout in the valance? Wow, that's not I pictured at all. I hadn't planned to slot all that out, I was just going to use the existing holes in the body work. Kevin |
The bottom piece is just used to route the air to the back opening.
The 3.2 motor runs pretty cool.
You could get away with just the round holes in the front and the rear opening for the exit air.
I also crammed a small 12 volt fan under the shroud for when I'm stuck in traffic.
The only time my motor ever got to 200 degrees is when I'm stuck in bumper to bumper traffic.
Posted by: Steve Nov 2 2005, 08:46 AM
I also keep forgetting that my motor is a Euro engine with higher compression.
That's probably why it runs hotter.
GPR has no external oil cooler on there 3.2 and they say they have no over heating issues.
Even when they race the car at Button willow and Willow springs.
Posted by: swood Nov 19 2005, 02:24 PM
Yo Kev! Whats the status? Still kicken butt on this thing or what?
Posted by: kdfoust Nov 20 2005, 07:44 PM
Hey Woodman. It's been awhile since I've updated for sure.
I had a two weekends of downtime plus a week of business travel which equates to at least three weeks behind schedule on this project. But things are moving along again.
For the oil system I decided to go with Earl's Perform-O-Flex hose and Swivel-Seal fittings. I did all the sourcing through Summitracing.com. Most of the stuff has come in and I've started running braided hose. I ordered a "braided hose cutter" from Summit which IMHO looks like a cheap-a** pair of pruning shears. They weren't even sharpened! They're going back. I'm cutting the hose with a hack saw and that works fine. As far as assembling the hose so far (after six fittings) I think it's not such a bad process.
If you were to say that these projects go through the tear-down, fabricate (or buy) and re-assemble phases I'd say I'm well into re-assemble. I hooked up the speedo, throttle, and clutch (partially - I'm missing a bushing for the clutch pulley) back up. The half-shafts are back on as well. I'm waiting for my -16 hose and on-engine oil cooler to show up but I've got the exhaust system (headers and mufflers). I'm taking the entire week off next week to get some stuff done on the car and to relax from work a bit so I hope to put everything I've got available on the car.
Tomorrow I'm going out to pick up a welder. Don't get too exicited, it's going to be an oxy-acetylene setup but that what I know how to use...and it CUTS.. It's for welding in the oil filter mount and will be for doing some fabrication later on the oil cooler air flow stuff.
Everything's got a TODO list and here's mine....
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: kdfoust Nov 26 2005, 12:54 AM
The 3.2 keeps moving closer to being a driver. I've been off this week so I've hit a pretty good lick on the project. I can even visualize starting and driving this beast the first weekend of December! I've just heard that PCA RSR has an AX on 12/10. I wouldn't mind using that as a real early shake-down run.
Even though I was "on holiday" this week I did sneak into work on Tuesday evening to do some fabricating. I hadn't had much luck finding an appropriate banjo fitting for the fuel pump. I had also managed to loose the bushing that goes on the clutch pulley pivot. :huh:So I snuck into work under the cover of darkness and knocked out those two little parts. I soldered a modified barbed fitting into the banjo fitting blank. I didn't bother to radius the outside contours of the banjo fitting like they usually are, but, it's not located anyplace where I've got to look at it. I'm done with thinking about the fuel system anyway. I had been ordering all my braided stainless hardware from Summitracing.com. I found that the -16 hose was back ordered til 12/6/05 so I went to other sources. I found this place, http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/ . Funny thing was when I asked for 12' of -16 braided stainless hose the guy said "are you doing a Porsche?" Are we so bloody uniquely crazy that.....don't answer that. 
Now if I can just get PMS to send my engine oil cooler back to me...
I went to electrical debug this week and hooked up all the instruments as well as the new fuel gauge. Now don't get all tweeked when I say this, but, I had to give the starter a little bump just to make sure that that the electrical to that point was hooked up correctly. Now the coil wasn't hooked up or nothin' and I only bumped the engine maybe 1/10 a rev. But it WORKED. It's nice to do a little bench testing as you go. Kinda inspiring as well! 
Later,
Kevin
Here's the banjo fitting fabrication:
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Posted by: kdfoust Nov 28 2005, 12:31 AM
The car still looks like a disaster. My neighbors walk by and peek into the cockpit and get these horrified expressions on their faces. Now they're just being polite when they ask when I'll be done because to them, the non-"carguy" public, this is beyond madness and the only possible answer is "never." Here's a perfectly good car ruined by a maniac. The interior is a mess of wires and gauges hanging from wires, boxes, tools, meters, crimp-on connectors, wrenches, water bottles. There's no steering wheel or seats, the back pad is out, the carpet is out and the shifter has gone missing. To them there's no way out but to claim it on insurance. To me, one of dubiuos mental clarity, it seems only a couple of weeks from running.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: Dr. Roger Nov 28 2005, 12:36 AM
looks to me like it's about a week away from driving.
Roger
Posted by: Steve Nov 28 2005, 12:45 AM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Nov 27 2005, 10:31 PM) |
| The car still looks like a disaster. My neighbors walk by and peek into the cockpit and get these horrified expressions on their faces. Now they're just being polite when they ask when I'll be done because to them, the non-"carguy" public, this is beyond madness and the only possible answer is "never." Here's a perfectly good car ruined by a maniac. The interior is a mess of wires and gauges hanging from wires, boxes, tools, meters, crimp-on connectors, wrenches, water bottles. There's no steering wheel or seats, the back pad is out, the carpet is out and the shifter has gone missing. To them there's no way out but to claim it on insurance. To me, one of dubiuos mental clarity, it seems only a couple of weeks from running. Later, Kevin |
Its just a flesh wound!!
Your almost there.
Posted by: Eric Taylor Nov 28 2005, 02:21 AM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Nov 27 2005, 11:31 PM) |
| The car still looks like a disaster. My neighbors walk by and peek into the cockpit and get these horrified expressions on their faces. Now they're just being polite when they ask when I'll be done because to them, the non-"carguy" public, this is beyond madness and the only possible answer is "never." Here's a perfectly good car ruined by a maniac. |
lol, that picture makes me feel like i'm home. I miss the madness. I get that from my mom all the time. I remember when I put the car on jackstands for the first time and forgot to block the front wheels. As the car slid off the stands the look on her face was "your going to die, and your father is supporting it" It was priceless.
Eric
Posted by: kdfoust Nov 28 2005, 11:06 PM
MAP gas is your friend. Especially when doing a conversion project. Shrinking electrical shrink tubing (yeah the FAST way), getting exhaust nuts off, and last but not least bending a -4 side shift shift-rod into -6 friendly shape. In my car the stock -4 side shift bar pretty much banged into everything under the car from the headers to the engine case. I got the bends pretty close to straight. I'll do the final fit up when I get the new bushings tomorrow. It's pretty easy to bend the bar with a little heat. The only thing that is getting my attention is the fact the going from bent to straight increases the distance from the coupling at the tunnel to the set screw hole for the trans shift cup by .8125". It looks like there's enough slop, I mean adjustment, in the system to compensate. Worst case I'll have to put a new set screw hole a new location. No big deal.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: kdfoust Dec 1 2005, 12:39 AM
I hooked the brakes back up in the rear on Monday. I had planned to hookup the shift linkage tonight and bleed the brakes. I bought a liter of Castrol LMA in preparation. Car up on stands, I started putting the shift linkage together. That .8125" offset from straightening the shift bar is coming into play and I couldn't quite adjust things so that it would shift. I added a hole offset the .8125" but the shift bar is boogered in that area. I'll take it to work tomorrow and have at it to clean up the shaft. I didn't get round to the brakes tonight. Still got the stock -4 brakes hooked up. I'm thinking about putting 944 Turbo calipers on. The but that'll mean a bunch of other stuff that's out of scope right now.
Later,
Kevin
here's the shift bar...
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Posted by: kdfoust Dec 1 2005, 12:43 AM
Tomorrow's a big day. 
I should have the -16 lines, the on-engine cooler from PMS, and some other stuff from Pegasus. I think that's it. No more parts to source! Tonight my EBAY special "K&N" filter for C2, Carrera and what have you arrived. It was like $20 and the main reason I bought it was to get the flange that mounts to the MAF. I'll get a real McCoy K&N to go on it. The flange isn't quite perfect but I'll slot some holes tomorrow at work. I'm just figuring the flange is a starting point that keeps me from having to machine the entire thing myself anyway. Here's the filter and flange.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: 736conver Dec 1 2005, 12:49 AM
Kevin,
I put the 951 calipers on mine and they are awesome. I also bought that ebay filter. Nothing but crap I thought. That flange is horrible. I thought at least the holes would match up. The transition is horrible to. I guess theres a reason why its so "cheap"
Posted by: kdfoust Dec 1 2005, 10:07 AM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Nov 30 2005, 10:49 PM) |
| Kevin, I put the 951 calipers on mine and they are awesome. I also bought that ebay filter. Nothing but crap I thought. That flange is horrible. I thought at least the holes would match up. The transition is horrible to. I guess theres a reason why its so "cheap" |
Nope, the holes don't match on mine up either.
I'm going to use the flange for now to get the car running again but you're right the match between the flange and MAF is pretty miserable. What are you planning to use for a flange on your car? I had pretty much decided that I'd machine one myself until I ran across the el cheap-o one on EBAY.
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: Steve Dec 1 2005, 09:52 PM
I bought the MSDS air filter.
It fits perfect but I think it was $100.00
You get what you pay for.
Posted by: Steve Dec 1 2005, 10:03 PM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Nov 30 2005, 10:49 PM) |
| Kevin, I put the 951 calipers on mine and they are awesome. I also bought that ebay filter. Nothing but crap I thought. That flange is horrible. I thought at least the holes would match up. The transition is horrible to. I guess theres a reason why its so "cheap" |
Did you have to drill extra holes in the 944 Turbo calipers to fit your struts?
If so did you weld up the old holes?
I bought a set years ago and they are drilled out to fit the 911 struts.
Some day I will install them or sell the car whichever comes first.
Posted by: 736conver Dec 2 2005, 12:31 AM
| QUOTE |
| Did you have to drill extra holes in the 944 Turbo calipers to fit your struts? If so did you weld up the old holes? I bought a set years ago and they are drilled out to fit the 911 struts. Some day I will install them or sell the car whichever comes first. |
I had a buddy machine them for me. I didnt weld up the old holes either. I have the 3.50 spaced struts and you have to increase it to 3.75 if I remember correct. Didnt think it would be a problem enlarging the hole on one side, 1/8 of an inch.
Posted by: Steve Dec 6 2005, 02:32 PM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Dec 1 2005, 10:31 PM) | ||
I had a buddy machine them for me. I didnt weld up the old holes either. I have the 3.50 spaced struts and you have to increase it to 3.75 if I remember correct. Didnt think it would be a problem enlarging the hole on one side, 1/8 of an inch. |
That's what they did on the calipers I bought.
I just haven't had the time to install them.
My 3.2 definetly needs these calipers.
My S Aluminum calipers are to wimpy for a 3.2.
I didn't realize they were that bad until after I bought my 993.
The 993 brakes are awesome.
My 914 of course is faster to 140 mph and corners better than the 993.
Posted by: Root_Werks Dec 6 2005, 05:37 PM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Nov 30 2005, 10:39 PM) |
| I hooked the brakes back up in the rear on Monday. I had planned to hookup the shift linkage tonight and bleed the brakes. I bought a liter of Castrol LMA in preparation. Car up on stands, I started putting the shift linkage together. That .8125" offset from straightening the shift bar is coming into play and I couldn't quite adjust things so that it would shift. I added a hole offset the .8125" but the shift bar is boogered in that area. I'll take it to work tomorrow and have at it to clean up the shaft. I didn't get round to the brakes tonight. Still got the stock -4 brakes hooked up. I'm thinking about putting 944 Turbo calipers on. The but that'll mean a bunch of other stuff that's out of scope right now. Later, Kevin here's the shift bar... |
Kevin, you don't actually want the bar perfectly straight. You'll want a slight bend somewhere around the center of the bar becuase the two ends are not prefectly parallel to one another.
Posted by: kdfoust Dec 6 2005, 06:14 PM
I was wondering if it could be too straight. Mines still got a little bend to it. It feels okay so far rowing it around in the drive way. I guess I won't really know until I start actually shifting it with the thing running....which will be SOON!
Later
Kevin
Posted by: kdfoust Dec 12 2005, 11:49 PM
I'm still out here cranking along on the conversion. Yesterday I was thinking about how I want the car setup. RSR raised struts, 951 brakes, KONIs, ... I got out the gear ratio spreadsheet and started messing around too. The first thing I noticed is that the gear calculator is showing that fifth gear redline is at 126 MPH. That seems pretty slow. That's with the standard 901/914 ZD ratio in fifth and there's nothing higher than that. I've gone faster than that at Willow in a slower car, the other Porsche, than the 3.2 '14's capability. I put the calculator away and went to bed. Today I went back a took another look. I realized that I'd left the tire diameter from my 13" tire experiment in the calculator. I put the right diameter in the calc and I'm heading straight to 143MPH. That's more like it. It's a speed that I'm not even sure that I want to go in the '14, without some aero help anyway, but it's out there just in case...
I'm finally over my http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=42249&hl=hosing with the -16 braided hose. All I can say is that building -12 is like tying my shoes after muscling around with the -16. Because of all the thrashing around with the -16 I wound up having to use a pair of fittings and a union midway down the rocker to get enough length. I literally came up 4" short of making it from the engine oil cooler to the tank in front. Oh, well, I'm over all that now. Everything is pressure tested to 10 bar with no leaks. I made the last -12 hose tonight which goes to the puke bottle. I went around to all the fittings and removed them and put anti-seize on the threads and torqued them all down. When I went to put the lines back on the cooler the lower line really wanted to get cross-threaded. Off course I can't reach the fitting with a file, it's the one on the bottom of the Setrab, so tomorrow evening the cooler comes out so I clean up the threads before they get really boogered. Then I'll be completely finished with the oil system and dang happy about it.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: kdfoust Dec 16 2005, 12:14 AM
Finally the oil system is finished!
Tonight I put all the stuff back together after fixing the boogered threads on the oil cooler. The way things are shaping up I'll be starting 'er up this weekend. I por-15d the jack points which I'd partially removed. There was some surface rust. I feel pretty darned lucky because the longs on this car are in great shape. I also found out that brake cleaner will remove paint. At least paint with no clear coat on it, like in my front trunk. No big deal, I'll just put it on the list.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: kdfoust Dec 19 2005, 08:22 PM
First fire yesterday! After I got a kink out of the return fuel she started right up. There still might be a kink or two to work out under the tank. Won't idle but that doesn't scare me. I "drove" it in first and reverse, sitting the barren cockpit no seat sitting on a old seat pad, to make sure the clutch was put together right. Sounds just like it should: f'n LOUD. Okay maybe too loud but for now I'll put up with it.. I'll post a sound byte of the engine later. The http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/img/parts/583.jpg (bought through PMS) give it a pretty low rumble which I'm sure will set off every car alarm within a block at six grand. I'm dying to actually drive it but Christmas party commitments require that I get out of the garage and act social. I'll try not to bore the party goers with tales of future glory in the '14 but it's going to be hard to do. I promise not to drink too much and then offer to go fire 'er up at midnight. She won't idle but she'll sure run at 3500. I promise to not bore the party goers with in car video from the "other Porsche." I promise not to sneak out to figure out why it won't idle... 
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 19 2005, 09:20 PM
Great news!
Won't idle....
To adjust the idle, you have to short the two pins on the connector that looks like a round relay plugs into. (That disables the automatic air bypass valve). You then turn the air bypass screw to set base Idle speed, and finally you un-short the two pins. The DME then will "remember" the idle speed and make corrections using the automatic air bypass valve. I made a test plug from an old bad relay and painted it red for the track car.
Did you change all your hoses? You probably sealed up air leaks that were present before...
I wish my current conversion was that far along.... Anyway, where did you end up mounting the DME? Could you get a pic? (I'm still looking for ideas).
I'm waiting to get my oil cooler back from the welder, and my headers (that I'm getting as a present)
Posted by: kdfoust Dec 20 2005, 12:29 AM
I just snuck out of the party for a minute....really.
Here's the lowdown on the vacuum lines. I have no clue where they should go! Not quite that bad but...
I've two ports on the intake boot which I've pluged, one about 1-1/4" and one about 1/2". I seem to remember both of those went to the stock air box (long gone in a spasm of cleaning up). Then there's the port on top of the engine the crank case vent which I also seem to remember went to the air box, or no? I haven't routed that anywhere yet but I've got the hose with the weird restictor inside hooked up there. Then there's the vac line that puzzles me most: it's on the throttle body below the vac line for the fuel pressure stuff and is a small, like 5/32 ID vac line. The hose that was on it is pretty long and I can't decide where that one should go so I just plugged it. Then there's that line on the intake manifold passenger side which I believe relates to the power brakes (fancy stuff I don't have) and another on the same side that Y'd into the intake manifold both of which I've plugged.
I guess since I've plugged all the vac fittings that I could find, you could say all the air leaks have been fixed.
I count like 6 vacuum fittings, all plugged except the one that goes to the fuel pressure reg and surge damper.
Tomorrow night I get to play again so hopefully I'll get this sorted out then. I still owe my long suffering neighbors rides and they're starting to look anxious...
Oh crap busted. Back to polite society...
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: kdfoust Dec 24 2005, 06:46 PM
I haven't updated this thread in a while 'cause I've been too busy DRIVING the 3.2 conversion.
To make a long story shorter...
The 3.2 actually fired up on first crank, but after I'd spun it for awhile getting the oil circulating. It wouldn't idle long though and I traced that to a kink in the return fuel line under the tank. How many times has that happened with these cars? Once I discombobulated the kinks in the lines she fired right up. My first drive was completely successful. One wheel wanted to fall off, the sump tank leaked, the rear calipers drug until the brake fluid boiled making working the brakes a multi-pump kinda deal, and the 100A fuse at the battery popped right as I pulled up to my garage. This went much better than I expected! After fixing those things and installing a 250A fuse I gave it another try the next morning. I ventured a little further this second day and only had the leak at the sump tank and two newly noticed bugs: back-up lights permanently on, and non-functioning blinkers. After cooling the engine for a couple of hours I found that I'd boogered the assembly of the sump tank and corrected that and the blinkers so she'd be ready for the next day's drive. On this the third day things were starting to feel better. I started testing her out a little bit.
Stock '85 3.2 78k miles taken from a '11 and put directly into the '14 without even removing a spark plug. Motronic, electronic all seems to have survived the transplant. The side shift conversion happened at the same time and the, upto this point unknown condition, tranny seems just fine. I had forgotten how truly awfull the shift feel was on this car becuase I'd installed a Rennshift back when it was a tailshifter. Right now I'm on the factory stuff and it's pretty bad. I ordered a new Rennshift last week and am looking forward to getting my hands on that.
My review of the performance is like this: YYEEEWOWWW! It's been a while since I'd driven the '14. It's a good looking car in metalic green with blacked out Pedrinnis. It has always attracted quite a bit of attention but always had the downfall of the 1.7. Now it's a good performing car. The techart mufflers keep things down to a LOW RUMBLE which seems to be louder in the car than outside it. Letting 'er out to 6k it starts to scream. The first time jumping onto the freeway from my favorite local ramp left me thinking that the speedo must be wildly off although traffic did seem to be moving kinda slow. It turns out that the speedo is pretty much right on with the tires I've got on there right now. The 3.2 is nice and torquey allowing take-offs in 2nd quite easily. The whole package can be loafed around letting the engine pull from as low as 2k in any gear. The power comes on nice and smooth and things just start happening quicker, much quicker when the loud pedal is pressed. The only reason to rap this engine out above 5500 is to listen to the music. Trailing throttle from 6k, well I'm getting excited... 
So far the conversion completely met my expectations in terms of performance and esthetics. I drive it around every day and fix a little something every day. It gets a cage, brakes, and suspension upgrades over the next year. It won't have the meats to make a TTOD car for a few years because the paint is still quite good and I don't want to flare it yet. If things work out I do hope to be the terror of zone 8 AI class.
Later,
Kevin
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Posted by: echocanyons Dec 24 2005, 06:47 PM
Lookin good and sounds fun as hell.
Any more pics of the mufflers?
Posted by: Dr. Roger Dec 24 2005, 07:25 PM
gorgeous.
might you post a video to see and hear her running through the RPM's??? in car, out of car, or both!
it really looks bad-ass.
congratulations.
Posted by: Steve Dec 24 2005, 07:27 PM
Merry Christmas Kevin!!!!
Remember keep the shiny side up!!!
Posted by: Steve Dec 26 2005, 03:24 PM
I'm really depressed.
I just sold my 914 and watched him drive it away.
I also sold every part I had for that car.
The parts filled up his friends SUV to the ceiling.
Ahwell.
You will have a blast with your car.
The 3.2 is an awesome motor for the 914
Posted by: 736conver Dec 26 2005, 03:33 PM
Thats awesome Kevin.
Steve sorry to here that your car sold. Hope you stick around though.
I dont know if its my monitor or you picture but heres a lighter shot of your car, Kevin.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: jim912928 Dec 26 2005, 04:18 PM
way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm next I'm next!!!
Posted by: kdfoust Dec 26 2005, 06:15 PM
I had still been having some cold idle issues. Today I got serious with and troubleshot it to conclusion. I posted the results of that http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=257918 on the Bird Board taildragger forum. If you're moneying around with Motronic 3.2 it might be useful to know about...
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: rpmmaxxed Dec 30 2005, 12:10 AM
Looks awesome man.
Really like that color paint, alot.
I can now see what ya mean about the techarts dragging, they are HUGE. ![shocked[1].gif](http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/shocked[1].gif)
Posted by: kdfoust Jan 26 2006, 01:00 AM
It's been awhile since I updated on this project. I've been doing some refinements to the conversion. The first thing was to move one of the header pipes on the driver's side. I don't know if all 914-6 headers are designed this way but the center cylinder header pipe on the driver's side passed really close to the engine oil cooler fittings. I had put fire braid over the oil line but I just didn't like this setup at all. The header was actually touching the fire braid! Figuring 500 or 700 deg F that close to my precious braided oil line was more than I could live with. And remember: I don't want to be the guy that dumps 15 quarts of oil on the track and fries an engine all at once.
I've got an exhaust guy that specializes in hot rods. He does KNOW how to fabricate. This is the slow season for the hot rod guys so he has plenty of time. Anyway I went over and talked it over with him and he bent up some pipe to move the header pipe well away from the oil line and kept it the correct length. For all the complexity of the bends in these headers they're only within 2" of being the same length anyway. What a waste...does anyone make parts that aren't pieces of sh*t anymore?
Later,
Kevin
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 26 2006, 01:10 AM
kev, whered you get that orange wrap stuff?
score me some and you got a rear valence (2 ft?)
Posted by: 736conver Jan 26 2006, 01:12 AM
Kevin,
You know if that would of been a "real" 914-6 oil cooler you would not of had that problem.
Just givin ya hell. I wish I could at least go out and drive mine.
Posted by: messix Jan 26 2006, 01:37 AM
can you make a heat shield to go between the header and the oil cooler? seems like that would shield alot of radiated heat away from the oil lines and oil cooler.
Posted by: kdfoust Jan 26 2006, 04:09 PM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Jan 25 2006, 11:12 PM) |
| Kevin, You know if that would of been a "real" 914-6 oil cooler you would not of had that problem. Just givin ya hell. I wish I could at least go out and drive mine. |
Dude, just get some Nokians and some chains and let 'er rip! I can already visualize the resulting threads: Tire chains, what size? Or Chains vs cables...
Real -6 cooler? Huh? What's the difference (just curious).
Later,
Kevin
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 26 2006, 04:17 PM
| QUOTE (kdfoust @ Jan 26 2006, 02:09 PM) |
| Real -6 cooler? Huh? What's the difference (just curious). |
the way (and angle) the oil line attaches ...
gives you more room ...
Andy
Posted by: 736conver Jan 26 2006, 04:27 PM
| QUOTE |
| Real -6 cooler? Huh? What's the difference (just curious). |
A 914-6 not only changes the angle but compared to yours the hose would be about 3 to 4 inches closer to the wheel. Your oil cooler was modified by someone cutting the old end off, thus elimating some length. That would of put the hose on the other side of the header.
Posted by: kdfoust Jan 26 2006, 08:07 PM
| QUOTE (736conver @ Jan 26 2006, 02:27 PM) | ||
A 914-6 not only changes the angle but compared to yours the hose would be about 3 to 4 inches closer to the wheel. Your oil cooler was modified by someone cutting the old end off, thus elimating some length. That would of put the hose on the other side of the header. |
Yeah I had mine (3.2 stock version) modified to a -AN fitting and had the line shortened to add clearance to the trailing arm for a nice bend in the -16 line.
Got a digipic of a stock -6 cooler? I'd like to see how they compare.
I think the header is still going to be too frig'n close. Remember 500 - 700 deg F...
Later,
Kevin
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