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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ PCA vs POC
Posted by: Tobra Mar 22 2006, 11:46 PM
Two different clubs, can anyone share any experiences, advantages or disadvantages to one or the the other. Which has better DE courses and track days, that sort of thing
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 22 2006, 11:56 PM
POC tends to stay in Socal more. the offer a little of everything but focus more on door handle to door handle racing.
PCA in Norcal....Zone 7. AXs, almost one per weekend somewhere in the zone.
DEs...check the Zone website. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 days available this year with various regions.
TTs by GGR 5 per year.
Depends on what you are looking for. There is plenty available to you in PCA Zone 7 and stay in norcal 
I have run with POC in the past...nice folks good events, they just don't come north to run very often.
Posted by: Scott Carlberg Mar 23 2006, 12:35 AM
http://www.porscheclub.com/
http://www.pca-ggr.org/
As Dan said, the POC is ALL about Track Events, they really don't have
"social-only" events.
Posted by: SandyI Mar 23 2006, 12:50 AM
The POC is a very race-oriented club. Our DE events put you on the Streets of Willow track in the Short Track Series. And a few years later, you can find yourself at the Sebring 12-hour as some club members ran this year. There are a couple social-only events thrown each year, but no, the club definitely isn't about wash, wax, park and chat get togethers. There are no concours events with white gloves. These are men and women with very heavy right feet that like to go fast on the track. The Time Trial and Cup Race divisions race all over California and in Las Vegas once a year. It's a helluva good time. Check us out some time.
Those of us in the Short Track series have our priorities -- the beer's always cold after the fifth run session. 
Posted by: Tobra Mar 23 2006, 09:59 AM
Good info and links. I don't really want to cut my car up and put a cage in there, and obviously it needs some going through before taking it out on a track. I was sort of leaning toward PCA before, sounds like it might be better for me locationwise. I like the associate member thing too. Thanks guys
Posted by: Howard Mar 23 2006, 10:47 AM
Each PCA chapter tends to be different. The local one here is mostly social, I think they do one A/X per year.
Posted by: drewvw Mar 23 2006, 10:51 AM
anyone in the NE have PCA expierience? There is a meet and greet in Boston on April 9th. A couple of my buddies and I were wondering what the scene is like out here...
Posted by: anthony Mar 23 2006, 11:08 AM
Why is it an either/or decision? IMO, for $40 a year the PCA membership is chump change. You can't beat the GGR 2-day autocross school. You get the equivalent of a $1000 driving school for $100 plus your $40/year membership.
Posted by: Headrage Mar 23 2006, 11:33 AM
Is the POC worldwide?
Posted by: Howard Mar 23 2006, 11:39 AM
| QUOTE (Headrage @ Mar 23 2006, 09:33 AM) |
| Is the POC worldwide? |
Only if you consider SoCal the whole world
Posted by: Headrage Mar 23 2006, 11:42 AM
So no Porsche clubs in Europe?
Posted by: Mueller Mar 23 2006, 12:02 PM
| QUOTE (Headrage @ Mar 23 2006, 10:42 AM) |
| So no Porsche clubs in Europe? |
what would make you think that???
from what I understand, PCA was 1st...a bunch of racers down in SoCal got bent about how PCA club racing was run and decided to form POC
and yes, there are Porsche Clubs in other countries...they are just not named PCA or POC
Posted by: Mueller Mar 23 2006, 12:05 PM
proof of Porsche clubs in Europe 
I took that picture a few years ago when Sherryl and I went to France (and Germany and England) 
Posted by: Mike D. Mar 23 2006, 12:18 PM
| QUOTE (Headrage @ Mar 23 2006, 09:42 AM) |
| So no Porsche clubs in Europe? |
I think this is what Headrage is looking for:
Classic Car Demonstration at F1 Drive's Parade
Famous for his passion for cars, CEO of Gantek Teknoloji Ahmet S¸efik Öngün drove, Toyota pilot Ralph Schumacher, the smaller of the two brothers, in a 1957 model Corvette car during Formula 1 Grand Prix.
Founder of the Porsche Club in Istanbul, Ahmet S¸efik Öngün had invited all Porsche clubs in the world to our country for the F1 event. 150 members of the Porsche Club arriving from all over the world have been the guests of the Porsche Club in Istanbul for 3 days. During the Formula 1 event planned for the next year Öngün disclosed plans to welcome 1000 members of the Porsche Club in Turkey under the Porsche Club initiative.
BTW: POC very competative, you have to watch out what you do to your car or you'll be classed with a guy who brings his car to the track in an 18 wheeler and has a small staff to run diagnostics before the race.
Posted by: Headrage Mar 23 2006, 12:56 PM
Found it.
Gonna take me awhile to translate it.
http://www.autoshow.com.tr/haberler/00557/
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Scott Carlberg Mar 23 2006, 12:57 PM
| QUOTE (Tobra @ Mar 23 2006, 07:59 AM) |
| Good info and links. I don't really want to cut my car up and put a cage in there, and obviously it needs some going through before taking it out on a track. I was sort of leaning toward PCA before, sounds like it might be better for me locationwise. I like the associate member thing too. Thanks guys |
Make sure to check them BOTH out!
I thought the POC came up to Thunderhill every year, but I don't see a date for THill on their 2006 schedule.
Check them out when they come "up north" though.
August 25-27: Laguna Seca Raceway - "Make A Wish" Charity Event - Time Trial #5 - Cup Races #10 & 11
October 28-29: Infineon Raceway with PRC - Cup Race #14
Posted by: SoCal Driver Mar 23 2006, 01:18 PM
PCA here is very social SBR, Santa Barbara Region. We have 2 monthly breakfast GTG and other functions thruout the month. SFR, San Fernando Valley region I'm not to sure about, what Howard would probably be a member of. But both are Zone 8. I'm 26, and my father joined SBR ~87-95 and then became active again ~98 to present and i've always been there at events with him since i was about 9. We did distro for news letters to the SBR from the early 90s to just a year and a half or so ago. Got to see the region grow from 250+ members in the early 90s to well over 600, almost 700 when we stopped. From my understanding its grown even more since then.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Mar 23 2006, 02:42 PM
| QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 23 2006, 09:39 AM) | ||
Only if you consider SoCal the whole world |
Well, it is ...................... The Cap'n
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Mar 23 2006, 02:50 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 23 2006, 10:02 AM) | ||
what would make you think that??? from what I understand, PCA was 1st...a bunch of racers down in SoCal got bent about how PCA club racing was run and decided to form POC and yes, there are Porsche Clubs in other countries...they are just not named PCA or POC |
"Club racing"? PCA Club racing appeared in the last decade, POC appeared in the late 50s-early 60s. True, they went off in their own direction, but there were a TON of dual members, and everyone ran events put on by both clubs. PCA SBR was originally gonna be a POC group, but got sidetracked, as I recall. In the early-mid 60s, you could run 4 autocrosses nearly every weekend in the LA area, and there were time trials every month. We ran Willow, Riverside, the LAPD training center, Ontario Motor Speedway, and the old bomber base at Holtville, as well as parking lots all over the place. The Cap'n
Posted by: pek771 Mar 23 2006, 08:36 PM
No POC in the East. PCA DE's are the cheapest events, fee wise. NASA and M-Club are expensive as hell.
NASA won't even return my emails. I am truly invisible. They cashed my membership check, however.
PAt
Posted by: Howard Mar 23 2006, 08:54 PM
PCA is a national club with local chapters. Each seems to be a bit different, Sta Barb as stated is pretty social and very 'car preservation' oriented.
POC is a SoCal thing that reminds me of the old CalClub springing off from SCCA. Racing and beer, with occasional topless skeet shooting by Otto.
Posted by: Tobra Mar 23 2006, 08:57 PM
| QUOTE (anthony @ Mar 23 2006, 09:08 AM) |
| Why is it an either/or decision? IMO, for $40 a year the PCA membership is chump change. You can't beat the GGR 2-day autocross school. You get the equivalent of a $1000 driving school for $100 plus your $40/year membership. |
Fine point sir
Posted by: campbellcj Mar 24 2006, 01:08 AM
I've been a PCA member for nearly 15 years; however, as far as I'm concerned it's basically a magazine and web site subscription, and not much more, here in the L.A. area.
I am currently affiliated with the Santa Barbara region, which is one of the better ones in terms of having plenty of "whine and cheese" events, concours, good newletter, etc. There are lots of members and I'm sure lots of cool people and cars among them. However, hardcore driving events are essentially nil. It really depends what you are looking for!
I've also been a POC member for approx 6-7 years and although I cannot make it to as many events as I'd like due to work and family obligations, the driving is the thing for me and this club is all about that, period! There have been some political/personality issues over the years but from what I can tell the current regime is back to being Good People and not overtly biased towards or against one type of car or driver/event over another (not the case in years past IMO). I am optimistically hoping to do a lot more POC events this year.
Posted by: Scott Carlberg Mar 24 2006, 01:19 AM
well said sir.
Posted by: grantsfo Mar 24 2006, 10:24 AM
| QUOTE (campbellcj @ Mar 23 2006, 11:08 PM) |
| I've been a PCA member for nearly 15 years; however, as far as I'm concerned it's basically a magazine and web site subscription, and not much more, here in the L.A. area. I am currently affiliated with the Santa Barbara region, which is one of the better ones in terms of having plenty of "whine and cheese" events, concours, good newletter, etc. There are lots of members and I'm sure lots of cool people and cars among them. However, hardcore driving events are essentially nil. It really depends what you are looking for! I've also been a POC member for approx 6-7 years and although I cannot make it to as many events as I'd like due to work and family obligations, the driving is the thing for me and this club is all about that, period! There have been some political/personality issues over the years but from what I can tell the current regime is back to being Good People and not overtly biased towards or against one type of car or driver/event over another (not the case in years past IMO). I am optimistically hoping to do a lot more POC events this year. |
I agree. POC is one of the things I really missed when I moved to Nor Cal. Spending a day on The Streets or Willow with John Williamson "Otto" as my POC instructor improved my driving, cussing and beer drinking skills signficantly. DE instruction was top notch. Overall my one weekend DE event with POC was better than the 3 days and $2500 I spent going to Russell School at Infineon.
I wish we had a similar club in Nor Cal. It was very easy to get started with POC and the short track series would have been perfect for me.
GGR PCA has a decent track program it just hasnt fit my schedule well.
Posted by: brant Mar 24 2006, 10:43 AM
PCA is what you make of it...
In colorado they don't have the POC, and for about 20 years they have fostered the racing scene in our local PCA.
TONs of good driving stuff through PCA out here.
All of the good drivers go through PCA out here.
In fact the VERY first EVER PCA club race was held out here in colorado, because the Colorado contingent was pushing national to come up with something wheel to wheel.... ( didn't drive in it, but was a spectator that day and knew right then that I had to get involved...)
We had 2 of our local PCA guys jump into speedvision Touring and GT series last year. They only ran partial season last year, but are running the full season this year.
I think PCA is what you make of it, and since no POC exists in our area all of the racers have gravitated to PCA
the wine and cheesers bitch every year out here that our local chapter is only a "racing club" and doesn't have enough "social" events.
brant
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 24 2006, 11:03 AM
Check the zone 7 PCA website. There are close to 20 different DE/TT dates available this year. TTs are GGR, then LPR/MBR (coastal driving school) SVR, DR are putting on a bunch of DEs this season.
This doesn't even count the AXs. Probably another 20+ dates for those as well.
Norcal is pretty well served by the driving events available by PCA zone 7.
From now until just about the end of 2006 there is some kind of PCA/zone7 event for driving your car, in a controlled well instructed venue.
Buttonwillow, Infineon, Thunderhill, Fernley, and lots of airstrips, parking lots etc. Pick your poison.
http://www.pca.org/zone7/
Posted by: grantsfo Mar 24 2006, 12:00 PM
| QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Mar 24 2006, 09:03 AM) |
| Check the zone 7 PCA website. There are close to 20 different DE/TT dates available this year. TTs are GGR, then LPR/MBR (coastal driving school) SVR, DR are putting on a bunch of DEs this season. This doesn't even count the AXs. Probably another 20+ dates for those as well. Norcal is pretty well served by the driving events available by PCA zone 7. From now until just about the end of 2006 there is some kind of PCA/zone7 event for driving your car, in a controlled well instructed venue. Buttonwillow, Infineon, Thunderhill, Fernley, and lots of airstrips, parking lots etc. Pick your poison. http://www.pca.org/zone7/ |
I just wish we had a more regular PCA Zone 7 series on Laguna or Infineon. I know those are tough tracks to get slots. Driving several hours to T Hill or Fernley is tough for me. Nice thing is that we have plenty of non Porsche clubs offering sessions at the tracks that are close to me. I'm finding myself signing up for Track Masters because its easier to go to their events than the PCA Zone 7 track events. I enjoy AX and Zone 7 is definitely the king in respect to offering a wide selection of local events.
Posted by: anthony Mar 24 2006, 12:11 PM
In norcal we also have Trackmasters, NCRC, and probably a few other clubs that do similar DE/TT programs.
If you are willing to go during the week you can find time at Laguna or Sears with some of the other clubs.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 24 2006, 12:11 PM
Years ago we used to get 2-3 dates per year for Sears and Laguna.
That was in the days before NASA, trackmasters, traquest, speedventures, team yahoo, blah blah blah. Also Sears (infineon and Laguna) have gone up market and try to get events that put butts in the seats. Zone 7 events do not have that kind of market pull.
also just to kinda clue you all in. A day of renting the track at Laguna now runs ~$11K per day just for the asphalt. No turn workers, ambulance, tow truck, bathrooms etc. And Sears is very close to that cost now.
A lot of your trackmasters and such events are Fridays or other weekdays. GGR always goes for weekends in order to put on a TT event.
I wish we got more of those two as well, but I think the chances of that occurring are dwindling.
TH and BW were built specifically for club events...hence our tendency to be able to get those track weekends.
GGR also has a contract with TH giving us a minimum of 3 weekends per year for the next ~20 years.
GGR was the first club to use TH back in '94. We also committed money to TH for those 20 years. We purchased the guarantee for those weekends.
Posted by: jhadler Mar 24 2006, 12:41 PM
| QUOTE (brant @ Mar 24 2006, 08:43 AM) |
| the wine and cheesers bitch every year out here that our local chapter is only a "racing club" and doesn't have enough "social" events. |
It's not that, it's just that they don't want to get dirty while socializing...
Every race event I've ever been to, be it SCCA, PCA, BMCCA or otherwise has been a social event. Especially after the last checker. But instead of wine (or whine) and cheese, it's brake dust and beer... Instad of jacket and tie, it's nomex and baseball caps...
Still, the occasional dress up banquet (once a year for awards) is always fun...
-Josh2
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