I am at this time considering a turbo install on my 3.0 engine, I would be using the guts of a used bae turbo kit for the 911sc. I know that I will have to do a lot of fabricating and loose some useable storage space in the trunk. I have enough support from those who have had the turbo kit installed on there cars for 20 years, and have sorted all the little problems out.
I now have to justify the need for 300hp, when my car runs great as is, but lacks a little heart pounding thrill.
I like the idea of turbocharging as it is all external, biggest hp gains without internal modifications, and I have the capabilites of fabricating the plumbling. Plus it can be done for less than a pair of carbs.
Someone twist my arm, it's a turbo or it's a new paint job for the car.
Chappy
new paint!
TURBO!!!
You REALLY can't turbo a 914/6, haha.
Paint!
I have the complete intake for a 930, fuel distributor,manifold,intercooler, blow-off assembly, etc.
That would make a turbo conversion a cinch!!!
lemme know if interested.
Tim. Pm me on what you would like to sell it for.
I used to have a Volvo 740 turbo.
Turbos rock.
(or, rather, Kompressors rock)
Is the CR of your SC engine low enough to handle the boost to make 300bhp???
If the engine is stock, I doubt it...
cheers,
Jeroen
8.51 8lbs-9 maybe not 300 but those who have them installed on there sc engines claim they are faster than the 930's.
Turbo! Turbo!
Does that make it a TT (Twin Turbo)
I just sold a KKK K27 ... a nice upgrade for the 930.
It was used on a '85 BMW 745i
Eddie
You mean something like this
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or this
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or this
oops
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Why does that look so damn appealing to me
Cus hp is cooool. Go turbo, I doubt you'll be regretting it when you scratch your paint..
Paint it yourself..
andrew
The guys who run the bae kits swear by them, I have been talking to a guy who has had one on his 78 SC for 20 years. I think if one rigged a pressure sensor to trigger the cold start valve for fuel enrichment, used an intercooler may be ventilated by electric radiator fans, run the turbo up the right side of the trunk maybe even cutting it open and create a boxed area to bring the turbo closer to the intake to lessen the lag, blah blah blah blah, I think it could be done.
Hey, I bought a turbo 'cause I'm hooked on them -- I ain't gonna say "don't do it" . I'm just saying that attention has to be paid.... I'm sure you already knwo that tho...
kim.
turbo
On a cool MN night 12 lbs of boost! You Go Boy! I was just in the cities for Tues & Wed. I was thinkin I should have dropped you a note.
Be a plumber and go turbo, paint can wait speed can't
I fell the need, the need for speed.
I think if I decide to do it, I will stick with the stock proven to be reliable, bae kit running 8-9lbs. Change the mechanical advance in the dizzy and see how it runs.
I maybe satisfied with the performance gains at 8-9lbs., if not then I would make the changes. I do wish to keep my engine in one piece.
Rich
Let me know next time you come down to the cities. I may have to make a run up to Lutsen to drop off some stuff next month if i'm up in Duluth I will drop you a note.
Chappy
Here's a pic of "my friend's" 911 SC with the turbo installed. 5 psi to start with, gradually creaping up to a target of around 9 psi with intercooler and supplimental fuel injection, should top out at around 320 very driveable hp.
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Sammy, been a while. Come back again soon, man!
Hey Sammy !!!! Welcome back(?)
I was not knocking the BAE kit, I was referring to Chappy "rigging" a sensor to the stock cold start valve...I know it has been done successfully, but if not careful, it can be a costly.....see you at Dunkels
Hi guys. Thanks for the welcome.
i agree that using a cold start injector in the stock location might be a gamble, he's using an injector that's located in the turbo compressor discharge piping so it has time to atomize before going through the throttle body.
it would only be injecting diring periods of boost so the air vewlocities should be adequate to prevent pooling and the air temps would also be high, aiding atomization. As long as all 6 cylinders get the same amount of additional fuel there isn't a problem. If the distribution of fuel is not even it could burn a piston.
I... I mean my "friend" is planning to use a good air/fuel ratio meter to monitor things as he creeps up on the boost. The car already has a turbo whale tail on it so room for an intercooler shouldn't be a problem.
5 psi boost should be good for around 70 additional horsepower which is plenty, for at least a week or two until it gets boring. That's the problem with boost, too much is not enough.
BTW, I prolly won't make dunkel's this year. I'm 23 days into a 35 day, $17 million project with my name on it. I'm putting in 14 hours a day 7 a week so there's not much time for anything else right now, i'll sleep when I'm dead.
I might be able to weasel out for an hour or two but it aint gonna be easy.
Here's some pics of what I'm buried in:
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Overview of project:
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That yellow crane is rated at 275 ton lifting capacity and is over 200 feet tall.
here's one of a 17,000 horsepower gas expander (power end of a gas turbine) that we are installing:
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That better be ball bearing! Or else it will take forever to spool up!!!!
Thats big, cool,
Andrew
Ok, I went and sprung for it. The bae turbo kit will be on it's way soon. The paint will have to wait a little longer, now comes the fun part figuring out the best place to put it, and how. I always wanted to have a 914 turbo Porsche. Yeee Haaa. I will post as I progress through it as a record to all who may wish to do it in the future.
All Porsche 930 turbos from 1976 thru the later part of the 80s had CIS injection and it works very well with boost.
Up to at least 5 psi a stock N/A CIS system compensates for boost with no other modifications needed. It is after all an air flow sensored system that adjusts for air density and temperature by design. The stock CIS injection on a 3.0 is said to be capable of supporting well over 300 hp.
The reason for the extra injector is not so much to prevent a lean out but more to provide "extra" fuel as a safeguard and to aid in cooling. I could dial the CIS so that it would maintain at least 13 to one at 7# boost, but with a compression ratio of over 9 to one and the crap they call pump gas now days I would feel better having it down around 12 to one while under boost. I know that's a little too rich but it is also safer for the motor.
IMO a DIY fuel injection "kit" is much, much more prone to an OOPS than CIS with an extra injector.
Same goes for aftermarket fuel injection systems. They work great after they are dialed in and the bugs are out, onlyest problem is those bugs can fry an engine before they are sorted out.
To me the CIS route makes much more sense. It's been done many thousands of times with turbocharging.
When the same thing can be said about megasquirt I'll buy it.
I know of two people who have installed megasquirt on a Porsche and have it dialed in. Sure there are more but I only know of two. Neither of the cars are turbocharged.
This megasquirt thing is all fine and dandy but it seems like there are way more people talking about it but very few doing it. I'm a little sceptical. I also don't have time to go around re-inventing the wheel. If I have something that doesn't work I look for a better solution. If I have something that works very good I look for something else to worry about
Up late, Sammy?
Hya JP. Yup, working 5 pm to 7 am 7 days a week. Sux major.
Goofy set in last week, I'm working on zombie mode now.
I will be receiving my bae turbo kit this week and have been putting together parts needed for the install, I will install the an enrichment injector and pressure switch at this time, I'd rather be safe than sorry even if I dont plan on boosting it any higher than 8lbs, knowing me that idea wont last long.
The kit comes complete even has the original instructions. I purchased a msd btm boost retard ignition to replace my msd 6a. I felt the built in rev limiter and the retard control were worth the investment. It will be interesting to see how it will all fit into the 914, what will be useable and what I will have to fabricate. The use of silicone hoses and elbows will make the plumbing easier, I will use pvc plumbing pipe and fittings for the mockup when all seems to fit I will replicate and fabricate in aluminum or steel or with silicone hose and couplings.
I am very excited in starting this project wish me luck. The paint job will have to wait.
TURBO
Turbo update, Intake is roughed in as you will see in the pictures, the crossover pipe with the turbo flange and wastegate is being fabricated and I'm waiting on the turbo rebuild. I have a Tilton electric oil pump to drain the oil from the turbo as I couldnt mount it high enough for a natural drain that was the only problem that Ive encountered so far, everything else has fallen into place. After I get it all plumbed together I will post the complete process of how to do it. I will be using a Tial wastegate,and bov, A turbo X boost controller, a 3lb pressure switch to activate a 911 SC cold start valve mounted just below the throttle body for enrichment, and will use a MSD boost retard ignition system.
I dont plan on boosting much higher than 8lbs to start with because the 901 and clutch will be at there limit at 300hp.
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914 6 3.0 turbo
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914 6 3.0 turbo
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I was wunderin about using a BOV on CIS. Seems to me that you will be relieving pressurized air to atmosphere, after that air has been metered by the air flow metering thingy.
Do you think that will make it go rich when the BOV opens?
The CIS would be thinking that air is going in the engine and adding fuel to compensate when in reality the air isn't going in the engine.
Any thots? Heck it might be an easy way to fuel enrichment, set the wastegate to 15, set the BOV to 8 and let the metering take care of adding extra fuel under boost.
I'm just kidding of course. That would be a waste of energy using exhaust gas pressure to compress air and then send it off to never never land, but it does make the gears start spinnin.................
looks like a nice install!
If CIS does the air metering thing then I think a blowoff would cause it to go rich for a brief moment, however - the blowoff should only release gas when you let the throttle close (to brake or change gear). I don't know if that very brief richness would cause the engine to stutter or not. Would be an interesting experiment.
Turbos rock.
I am thinking of installing the pressure switch below the throttle body in the lower air box that way when it's off throttle the fuel enrichment will stop. and by mounting the CSV below the throttle plate I wont be venting fuel all over the place when the bov opens. I will start slow like 5lbs or 6lbs and see how it all works and slowly build pressure if all is well. I have 2 air fuel ratio meters that will help in tuning it.
Oh I see what your question is, hopefully when the bov lets go off throttle, the pressure will drop the cis metering plate, otherwise maybe it does go rich I will have to ask others how it has effected there air fuel ratio.
I'm back to show you some progress being made on the install. Everything but the cross over pipe and muffler is done. MSD BTM boost retard ignition, fuel enrichment injector, Tilton oil pump to drain the turbo, Hobbs n.o. pressure switch set at 4lbs. to fire the enrichment injector, a Tial bov, A Turbo X boost controller, and a 38mm Tial wastegate. I am using a Flowmaster 3" in 3" out series 50 delta flow muffler as I wished to keep the noise down abit, and a freshly rebuilt Rayjay TO4B turbocharger from the Bae kit. All thats left of the Bae kit that I started out with are, the silicone intake bonnets, the piping and turbocharger.
The crossover pipe fabricator was out sick this last week so I will have to wait till next week to tell you about the test drive.
Here come the pictures.
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Did some brake work during the down time
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front brake
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rear brake
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cockpit
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controls/gauges
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Tilton oil pump for turbo drain, being pumped back to the top of the oil breather.
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Pressure switch and boost gauge plumbed into the power assist port.
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boost controller and CSV
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csv
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Flowmaster and Rayjay turbo
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Oh ya, pedal board
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I have followed a thread on the bird board for sometime now on tubo installs on 3.0 sc engines using the Bae kit with modifications, As they were figureing it all out, I started my installation. I will be running about 8lbs of boost which should make for an exciting ride. My dream car has always been a 914 6 turbo carrera, and it's looks like I am getting pretty darn close to it. almost time to celebrate. I think I will start on a Heineken right now,posting all these pictures was a lot of work.
David,
Sweet job!
I gotta come up and visit and go for a ride.
Regards,
Karl
Thanks Karl anytime your welcome to come up and take it for a spin, this is not going to be a garage queen more like a down and dirty street fighter.
How's the house?
I'm soo sorry I haven't been following this thread, This was going on at the same time I was in a furry to finish my car. I need to go see this this beast. Nice work!
Thanks Rich,
I have had some problems with the turbo passing oil out the exhaust, Originally I thought it was a drain problem, so I built a sump tank, no help, then improved the drain angle, no help, then remounted and plumbed the oil pump lower and tapped drain into lower valve cover, no help, then put in a smaller #3AN line as I thought I
must be over supplying the turbo, no help, put an oil breather in line to oil tank to lessen crank case pressure. Then fabricated a fitting so I could use a nitrous injector jet to use as a restrictor, first with a .59 then a .36, a little help but not cured and I dont like the thought of restricting the turbo from getting oil.
Conclusion, I am sending my rebuilt turbo back to Turbo City who did the rebuild and have them check it out, there is something not right with IT. Not my install. I have talked to others with the same turbo on the same engine that have run it unrestricted and have never had an oil issue. Other than that, the car runs great I will post a video of a test drive soon, you guys will be blown away by how quick I run out of gears.
My next move will be getting the body work done and start making it look pretty. As far as performance I am totally satisfied with the results much more than I expected, I ran against a kid on a crouch rocket bike last week starting from 2nd gear I pulled a few car lengths on him when I hit 5th, when we slowed down he looked over at me laughing shaking his head, he pointed his finger at the teener and mouthed WTF. I would never of been in the race had I still been running the stock 3.0.
I have had no problems at 10lbs of boost, the fuel enrichment and the timing retard all are working great together. I would like to get a couple of pulls on the dyno done over at elite motorsports, to see what the numbers are.
i have a little 1.7 L engine with twin turbo, fuel injection, and NOS. My dad gets mad when this little 4 cyl. goes toe to toe with his v8 conversion. I guess i am just a lucky 16 yr old kid
Great job Chappy.
I understand the things you talk about (mostly), but to have the skill not only to build this baby, but to think this stuff out and troubleshoot as you describe???
It is an over used word, but I literally mean your work here is awesome. Truely awe inspiring.
a.munoz3
Um..
I dont know about anyone else, but I wana see pics! That sounds cool man!
BTW Welcome!
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you're welcome
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