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Posted by: jesiv Aug 24 2008, 01:04 AM

Ok I am starting to play. So I purchased the complete suspension from a drilled 5 lug conversion (complete front including rack and rear trailing arms with drilled 5 lug hub). My plan was to buy a sway bar, tubro tie rods, koni adjustable and then replace entire front suspension. I thought I was clear on what I was going to do.

Today I found a great deal on a freshly rebuilt 72 911 front suspension with 911 sway bar and torsion bars. It is a complete suspension minus steering rack and tie rods. So I am thinking I should install the 911 stuff.

Or should I mix and match parts.

The 911 brakes sure look nice

Also would you get 15 or 16 fuchs?

Regards,

James

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 24 2008, 01:08 AM

I have the front end from a '78 SC with a 914 style sway bar. My struts are the 3 1/2 spacing for the calipers though. I run 15s. I really like how my front feels.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 24 2008, 01:32 AM

"Totally" depends on what you want to do with your car.

You can't go wrong with the 72 911 struts. You may simple want to add them to your a-arms for the best ride quality.

While Jon likes how his front end feels, he may be using them for different over purposes than you or most.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 24 2008, 02:03 AM

NO. Everyone must be doing the same thing as me

Okay, I guess I should add that my car has been set up for short trips and AX. I drive to all the events which is about 60 to 80 miles each way. This car is NOT a daily driver. It could be if I went to my chiropracter every day

Posted by: jcd914 Aug 24 2008, 02:40 AM

I voted "Use existing front end replace with 911 strut/hub with 914 Koni Shocks, turbo tie-rods, 914 sway bar"

I had already set up my suspension for auto-x with Yellow Koni gas sport shocks frt & rr, a thru body 19mm adjustable sway bar, 21mm or 22mm T-bars, poly bushings frt & rr.

When I went to 5 lug I used 72 911 struts, hubs and brakes, 4cyl rear hubs drilled for 5 lug with 6cyl rotors and 4cyl calipers. On the frt; I pulled my frt struts out swapped the Koni's to the 911 struts and back together with. On the rear I swapped the hubs and 914/6 rotor for what I had and when back together with it. I would guess I rechecked my corner weights and alignment but it has been too long to remember for sure.

I will note that early 911's and 914's used the same type of sway bars. Thru the body under the fuel tank on a 914 and behind the fuel tank on a 911. Latter (74 I think) 911's used and under body sway bar. I prefer the thru body bars because there are aftermarket adjustable bars available so you can better tune the suspension.

I used mine for auto-x and daily driving. I was a bit stiff and harsh but I did not mind.

Jim

Posted by: marks914 Aug 24 2008, 08:44 AM

I decided to run 82 911 SC struts, hubs, brakes, ball joints with turbo tie rods and a 914 19mm sway bar. I had a ste of 15" phone dials, but now I have some 17" boxter S alloys

Mark

Rides nice, even on Michigan roads, which have to be the worst roads in the country.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1236147744057582025LapaCn

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1236147814057582025CIBeep


http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1253350713057582025KLjYie

Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 24 2008, 10:14 AM

I went with my original 4 cylinder front end but replaced the hub and rotor with a crossdrilled SC rotor and a billet hub available in the Classifieds here. Very nice product. Brake calipers can be M calipers from the early 911 but I am going to try something different. You can see them peaking out from behind that Fuch. Aluminum mmmmmm.....
In the rear, I went with PMB rebuilt and modified trailing arms. You can't get easier than that.
Wheels are 16X6 Fuchs..


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Posted by: McMark Aug 24 2008, 09:42 PM

I'm working on this as well. I have early 911 Boge 3" struts that'll get non-vented/solid rotors and use my existing calipers. This way I can install the struts in an afternoon without having to rebleed my brakes. Later I will bolt on vented rotors and stock rebuilt caliper with spacers.

Minimum work: replace struts
Maximum work: replace entire front suspension
Difference at the end of the day: full 911 setup has better torsion bar selection.

I'll stick with the 'measly' 914 torsion bar selection and go for minimum work.

Posted by: jesiv Aug 24 2008, 10:24 PM

I see where y'all are coming from. One thing that just occurred to me is that my a-arms do not have utabs (which got me looking at front suspensions to begin with) so I have to replace a-arms.

So seems link complete 911 front suspension is the best and equal effort route?

Opinions...

Thanks for the real life opinions.

Regards,

james

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 24 2008, 10:26 PM

It will work with the solid rotors if you have early 914 calipers, not late (unless by existing calipers you mean existing M-Calipers that came with the early front end; see below).

Also, you will have to change hubs when you add the vented rotors. The vented rotor hub has a 3-4mm face set difference from the solid rotor hub to make up for 1/2 the distance of the new spacers.

What do you mean by stock rebuilt caliper with spacers? 911 M-Caliper?

Personally, I like the 914 torsion bars for... well... the 914. Especially a car that will be spending 80-90% of it's time on the street.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Aug 24 2008, 10:29 PM

The U-tabs can be added to any arms, so that's not a problem. I replaced the struts on my car with early 80s Carrera struts and brakes, but I'd just look around and see what you can find with a good price. These parts are all pretty much interchangeable, and there is no real advantage to -4 or -6 arms other than the number of splines on the torsion bars. The same with the crossmember, the aluminum one is not that much different than the early steel ones.

Posted by: jmill Aug 24 2008, 10:29 PM

Utabs?. Are you talking about the swaybar to a-arm attachment? You can buy those and just weld them on.

Posted by: McMark Aug 24 2008, 11:26 PM

But if you've already got 911 arms with suitable tabs, then run those. Welding vs. just swapping.

Front calipers with spacers in between the halfs... Crap, I thought this was going to be easy...

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 25 2008, 07:35 AM

I guess the question is "what" front calipers. The previous comment in your post make it sounds like you'd be using stock 914 front calipers.



What I'm trying to say is:

1. You could do that (use 914 calipers on an early 911 front end) but, they would have to be the early 1970-1972.5 variety.

2. If you're talking M-Calipers it would be best to get the ones with the spacers and build those in advance. You could then put them together without the spacers but with the longer fasteners. This way, when you wanted to add vented, simply install the spacers.

3. Your main problem in this would be the hub. I've had the two side by side. The geometry escapes me now but I "think" the later hub has 3-4mm "added" to the rotor mounting sufrace so... no, this won't be easy.

Posted by: McMark Aug 25 2008, 11:23 AM

I was thinking stock calipers the whole time.

I have the solid rotor hubs and 'some other' hubs. I'll get all the parts back to the shop and do some comparison.

Posted by: McMark Aug 25 2008, 12:12 PM

You're 100% correct Eric! (of course)

I'll have to run the solid rotor hubs as well. I think I'd better test fit all of this before I go to put it on the car.

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 25 2008, 01:01 PM

I went and got a complete 911 frontend from a '84 Carrera ...

Crossmember, A-Arms, Underbody Swaybar, Struts & Shocks, Hubs, Rotors, Calipers ...
The whole Shebang complete and together, direct bolt-in. No need to worry about mis-matching parts plus you get the 3.5" caliper spacing which makes for easier brake upgrades down the road.

I ran with the 911 underbody swaybar for a few weeks and they work great. I went to a through body bar later for adjustability, but for a street car, the underbody bar works just fine.

I also like the slightly heavier torsion bars on the 911 A-Arms.
Andy

Posted by: jesiv Aug 25 2008, 09:08 PM

Ok, so based on your experience, if I install 911 suspension... Will 15x6 or 16x6 fuchs just fit... No Problems?

Regards,

James

Posted by: McMark Aug 25 2008, 09:15 PM

Any 'Porsche' wheels will fit with two caveats: wheel spacers and fender flares. You are now entering the world of Wheel Offsets™

Posted by: Todd Enlund Aug 25 2008, 09:26 PM

AAAAAHHHHhhh!

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 25 2008, 09:34 PM

The 911 suspension wouldn't make it any different for what wheels you can use other than the whole 5 lug thing. Yes, 15 or 16x6s would easily fit on any stock/nonflaired 914.

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 25 2008, 09:58 PM

Not true. The Carrera Hubs will put the wheel mounting surface further out ...
Andy

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 25 2008, 10:00 PM

I've never seen a problem with 15x6s though. The only ones I have seen any issue with are 7s. He was asking about Fuchs right?

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 25 2008, 10:19 PM

And i never said there would be a problem. Read my post again. All i said was that your statement "The 911 suspension wouldn't make it any different for what wheels you can use" is not entirely true as the later 911 hubs change the offset of the wheel mounting surface compared to where it was before with the stock hubs.

Something you need to consider when shopping for wheels ...
Andy

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 25 2008, 10:22 PM

Oh, I get what you're saying. Yes, you are right. I didn't say that right. Thanks Andy.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 26 2008, 12:07 AM

Based on the suspension you mentioned earlier? No problems. While I'm a personal fan of 15's; it's for a weird reason. You might find a better tire selection with the 16's.

Again, I'll go back to my original post and say, all this totally depends on what you want to do with your car. A lot of people weighing in with their suspension choices have flares cars with sometimes fairly massive 6's.

It's important that you make a choice based upon what you will be doing with your car... it's a choice you'll have to live with. The choice for my car is/may be very similar to theirs but, what I would advise others of may be different.

Posted by: jesiv Aug 26 2008, 01:51 AM

Ok, so if I go with 16x6 what is the best tire size to run?

Regards,

James

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 26 2008, 12:58 PM

I'm not a lot of people!

What you're forgetting is that when i bought my 911 frontend 7 years ago, i still had my measly 1.7L engine.

I ran that combo for 5 years before i upgraded to a bigger engine ...
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 26 2008, 01:00 PM

195 x OO where OO depends on what you want. 50 for the cool look and sporty ride, 60 for a more comfortable feeling ...

Andy

PS: Have you checked out our tire size calculator?
http://www.914world.com/specs/tirecalc.php

Posted by: jesiv Aug 26 2008, 01:39 PM

I was told I will need spacers on the rears. Is this true?

Regards,

james

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 26 2008, 03:40 PM

Don't know why you would need spacers. Most of the five lug guys that have narrow bodies that I know don't have spacers. The only guys I know that use those have flares. I agree with Andy on the 195s. Personally I would go with th 50s but I like the sportier look and ride.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 26 2008, 03:55 PM

Awe... that's not nice.

Posted by: Todd Enlund Aug 26 2008, 03:56 PM

50s vs 60s will also affect the effective gear ratio... as will 15 vs 16.

Nominal tire height:

195/50-15 = 22.7"
195/50-16 = 23.7"
195/60-15 = 24.2"
195/60-16 = 25.2"

Effective gear ratio difference from the smallest to the largest is over 11%.

Posted by: Travis Neff Sep 24 2008, 12:33 PM

205x55x16 will be very close to stock rolling diameter.

Posted by: johnnie5 Oct 14 2009, 10:30 PM

As did I.

I also went with 911 bolt-on struts/914 inserts (Bilsteins, not Koni's), Lemforder tie rods, rebuilt Shea M calipers, and rebuilt Shea trailing arms w converted 5 lug hubs/914-6 rotors. I also installed new Bilstein shocks and aftermarket coils while I was in there. Sway bar is stock 914 thru-body with aftermarket adjustable drop links. All fairly straightforward to install.

As far as wheel/tire size, I chose to go with 15x6 Fuch's and 195 60 Eagle GT's. I was concerned 50's would just be too harsh a ride for me. I want to keep my fillings in my mouth!

I am very happy with the outcome.


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Posted by: ClayPerrine Oct 15 2009, 10:31 AM

So will 225x50x16 and 245x45x16. I have those on my car, and the speedo is accurate within 1 mph.

Posted by: RJMII Oct 15 2009, 11:26 PM

My setup:

I"m running 911 SC struts on the front end, redrilled 4 hubs on the rear (done by Eric)

I've got the stock 914 A arms, stock tie rods, etc, just changed out from the ball joint to the top of the shock tower.

Stock rear brakes, they work just fine.

My car is a street car with 250-300hp depending on how much I turn up the turbo. (see my sig)

For the Boxster wheels (in the world of offsets) I was running 16x7 rears with 225's. I was using an 8mm spacer.

On the front I was using a 16x6 with a 205, I think? They took a one inch spacer.

Now I have 16x7 Fuchs on all four corners, and NO spacers. I'm running 205's. The rear fenders had to be rolled for either setup.

I was complimented on how smooth my car rides... but it still handles nicely for the street.

Posted by: RJMII Oct 15 2009, 11:54 PM

here's how the Boxster rear wheel fit with the 8mm spacer.



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Posted by: Travis Neff Oct 16 2009, 12:02 AM

The boxster 16x7 have a 40mm offset

Posted by: nsr-jamie Oct 16 2009, 04:33 AM

I have a 911T front end on my car and that is is...I have some new parts coming very soon.

If I were to do it over again, I would probably go with a slightly later suspension with the A or S calipers and some suspension upgrades from Tarret Engineering, than some boxster calipers on front. That would be sweet but a bit of over kill...I guess it depends on what you plan to do with your car. Cheers

Jamie