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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ What oil temp Temperature gauge do I trust
Posted by: jc914 Nov 13 2008, 09:00 PM
I just finished cleaning all the inside glass of all my gauges (what a difference they look NEW) So I toke her out in the Miami weather tonight the outside temp was a nice hot 80 degrees. I drove my 914 for over an Hour an Half I drove her really hard and fast up 80MPH:driving: . The OEM temp gauge only read a 1/4 up and it never even got half way up 
. Once I got home I opened the engine lid and the Dip stick Temp Gauge read 250 degrees. ( note i have checked the dip stick boiling point yesturday before i installed it.) If My 914 is running hot what what might be the causes and which gauge should i trust. 
The car idled at 1 the whole night when i got home i turned her of and then on again after like 5 minutes and it started with some gas on the peddle.
thanks
JC
Posted by: Dave_Darling Nov 13 2008, 11:25 PM
Check the dipstick gauge against boiling water. That'll tell you if it is trustworthy...
--DD
Posted by: jc914 Nov 14 2008, 07:38 AM
Thank DD i had already done that before I installed the dip stick. is 250 degrees to hot
JC
Posted by: Ferg Nov 14 2008, 08:55 AM
I'd wager that you have the stock gauge with the bigger red zone... if so it was most likely reading correct.
Trust the dipstick gauge, I have used one since they were available and it opened my eyes as to how hot stock cars run. I'm not surprised you saw 250.
Too hot? Most likely, head temps ect all come into play, but in the end, I'm a believer that second cooler is a smart thing. You may be able to get the temps down with tuning ect, but I think they all run warmer than owners want to believe.
Ferg
Posted by: Gint Nov 14 2008, 09:21 AM
You pretty much answered your own question right there. You don't have a clue what the stock gauge actually reads, but at least the dipstick gauge is calibrated (more or less).
Posted by: jc914 Nov 14 2008, 09:28 AM
Thanks for helping 
. I am going to give the car a full tune up next month. I hope this will bring down the temp. I am also going to buy a CHT gauge. Most likely the VDO I know the are not temp compensated but for the price I rather do the math to compensate the temp. I also want to keep my gauges looking the same.
JC
Posted by: jim_hoyland Nov 14 2008, 09:38 AM
Ferg is right; the dip stick gauge is pretty accurate. I used one to verify my sender and gauge were properly matched.
If thesender is in question, you can remove it from the case and did it into boiling water. That will tell you where 200-212 is on that gauge. If you pull the sender, be sure to use a new crush washer when it's replaced.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Ferg Nov 14 2008, 09:50 AM
For those who are wondering what a dip stick gauge is, I'll throw out a free plug for the vendor as he is a good one...
http://www.mainelycustombydesign.com/engine_components.html#dipstick
Also it reads temp right where the stock sender does, (if' you've ever had the temp sender plate off you can see the bottom of the dipstick) so the temp readings are taken from the same location.
I used the dipstick gauge to give me real time readings from the stock gauge in the car... After a few drives and stopping to check the dipstick gauge, you can see where the stock gauge is, and get a idea of what the non numbered gauge is telling you.
One warning though, it will make you nervous, as I could not believe how hot "normal" was on the stock gauge. Straight up and down, on the gauge with the small red zone is right about 215, if the needle is touching the "M" on the word TEMP you are 235-240ish and if you are on the P it's 250 and above, all below the red zone.
Ferg
Posted by: ericread Nov 14 2008, 10:01 AM
Thanks for helping
. I am going to give the car a full tune up next month. I hope this will bring down the temp. I am also going to buy a CHT gauge. Most likely the VDO I know the are not temp compensated but for the price I rather do the math to compensate the temp. I also want to keep my gauges looking the same. JC
You are on the correct path. Who cares what the oil temperature is telling you? By the time the oil temp is recorded at the high point, it's proably going to be too late to save your engine. The important measurement is the CHT. I purchased a compensating CHT, cylinder probe and wiring for under $100.00 at Aircraft Spruce. In the past couple of months, I find that my oil temp gauge matches up to the CHT gauge reading- after about an hour. As for temp cool down, the oil temp gauge provides no real help. If you're worried about your engine temp, go for the compensating CHT.
Eric Read
Posted by: jc914 Nov 14 2008, 10:55 AM
Ferg thanks for the great information on the gauge. One more question I just replaced the wire from the temp sender to the engine bay conector when o got my above reading . Would the length of the wire changed the temp reading.
JC
Posted by: Ferg Nov 14 2008, 11:03 AM
Ferg thanks for the great information on the gauge. One more question I just replaced the wire from the temp sender to the engine bay conector when o got my above reading . Would the length of the wire changed the temp reading.
JC
I don't think so, but someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Do you have the stock gauge with the big red zone starting just past midway, or the later with the small red on the far right... My findings are from the later gauge, I've never owned a car with the "big red zone" gauge.
Ferg
Posted by: jc914 Nov 14 2008, 11:05 AM
I have the one with the BIG red zone. Thanks
JC
Posted by: type47 Nov 14 2008, 01:10 PM
i have the dipstick gauge installed in my 1.8 and the highest temp i've observed is 210F.
Posted by: jc914 Nov 14 2008, 08:27 PM
I just toke her out for another ride of about forty five minutes stopping and looking at the temp on the dip stick it ranged from 220-250 250 being the max i got and no matter how hard i would drive it would it did not go any hire than 250. Tomorrow i am going to clean the oil cooler with brake cleaner, check the fan and make sure there is nothing blocking it and later in the week i am going to do an oil change ( have to admit the oil is really old like 4 years only have ran like 1,000 miles I know shame on me 
) I hope this will bring done the temp at least to 220 at its highest point.
I have been looking at the CHT i think i am going to change my mind and go with the Dakota I just cannot see my self driving looking at the gauge and doing some math in my head to get the CHT degree from the VDO
For those of you that have a temp gauge with the big red zone this is what I used on the stock gauge to correlate to the dip stick gauge. When the top of the needle passed the top Tip left of the T (on the temp word) i had 220 from the dip stick. When the needle got to almost the tip of the end of the T i had 250 on the dip stick.
Posted by: Ferg Nov 14 2008, 08:46 PM
I'm not trying to be a downer, but I speak from some experiance, as I've had a few 914's...
220 as a high point in your climate and highway driving is very optomistic without a second cooler, and impossible in the summer.
I'm hoping you find blockage (check your warm up flaps too) but the temps you are seeing are exactly what I have seen with all my 2.0's before a aux cooler.
Ferg
Posted by: jc914 Nov 14 2008, 08:52 PM
FERG Thanks for your honesty I am considering a second cooler where can i buy one I am really thinking about it
JC
Posted by: Gint Nov 14 2008, 08:56 PM
I'm not trying to be a downer, but I speak from some experiance, as I've had a few 914's...
220 as a high point in your climate and highway driving is very optomistic without a second cooler, and impossible in the summer.
I'm hoping you find blockage (check your warm up flaps too) but the temps you are seeing are exactly what I have seen with all my 2.0's before a aux cooler.
Ferg
Bah! Hot-schmot!
My /4 has no temp gauge of any kind. I borrowed Ferg's Mainley dipstick thermo once. Saw 230-240. "That's a little high." Pulled that sucker out and gave it back to Ferg. Twisted the key and dumped the clutch and throttle and never looked back.
That was a year or so ago (maybe more?).
Drive it like you stole it!
Posted by: Ferg Nov 14 2008, 09:02 PM
I'm not trying to be a downer, but I speak from some experiance, as I've had a few 914's...
220 as a high point in your climate and highway driving is very optomistic without a second cooler, and impossible in the summer.
I'm hoping you find blockage (check your warm up flaps too) but the temps you are seeing are exactly what I have seen with all my 2.0's before a aux cooler.
Ferg
Bah! Hot-schmot!
My /4 has no temp gauge of any kind. I borrowed Ferg's Mainley dipstick thermo once. Saw 230-240. "That's a little high." Pulled that sucker out and gave it back to Ferg. Twisted the key and dumped the clutch and throttle and never looked back.
That was a year or so ago (maybe more?).
Drive it like you stole it!
spend a week and drive up I70 and get back to me 
Your results may vary.
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Ferg
Posted by: jc914 Nov 14 2008, 09:12 PM
OK I will THANKS AGAIN FERG
JC
Posted by: ericread Nov 14 2008, 09:12 PM
220 as a high point in your climate and highway driving is very optomistic without a second cooler, and impossible in the summer.
I'm hoping you find blockage (check your warm up flaps too) but the temps you are seeing are exactly what I have seen with all my 2.0's before a aux cooler.
Ferg
When you get your CHT installed, you will probably begin to see real engine temps - please see Jake Raby's article for reference:
http://www.914world.com/specs/JakeRabyHeadTemps.php
Eric Read
Posted by: marks914 Nov 15 2008, 03:52 PM
You should replace the original with a new module/sender, you can get them here:
http://www.newvintageusa.com/bigmarkdesign
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2117910870057582025hQwmLr
Mark
Posted by: jc914 Nov 15 2008, 07:35 PM
thanks marks914 I love the website first time I have seen it. Great products.
Posted by: marks914 Nov 15 2008, 07:48 PM
Oops, I had a typo in the web address:
I fixed it
http://www.newvintageusa.com/bigmarkdesign
Posted by: Gint Nov 15 2008, 07:50 PM
I'm not trying to be a downer, but I speak from some experiance, as I've had a few 914's...
220 as a high point in your climate and highway driving is very optomistic without a second cooler, and impossible in the summer.
I'm hoping you find blockage (check your warm up flaps too) but the temps you are seeing are exactly what I have seen with all my 2.0's before a aux cooler.
Ferg
Bah! Hot-schmot!
My /4 has no temp gauge of any kind. I borrowed Ferg's Mainley dipstick thermo once. Saw 230-240. "That's a little high." Pulled that sucker out and gave it back to Ferg. Twisted the key and dumped the clutch and throttle and never looked back.
That was a year or so ago (maybe more?).
Drive it like you stole it!
spend a week and drive up I70 and get back to me Your results may vary.
Ferg
BTDT Went down to AR last year and back. No sweat.
Posted by: jc914 Nov 15 2008, 07:55 PM
I found great information on this post and it has picture of all the temp gauges with numbers so you can correlate with your gauge that has no numbers ( on my post above my observations are the same as what is on the diagram) 
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=17496&hl=auxiliary%20oil&st=20
This was my personal observation with the dip stick.
For those of you that have a temp gauge with the big red zone this is what I used on the stock gauge to correlate to the dip stick gauge. When the top of the needle passed the top Tip left of the T (on the temp word) i had 220 from the dip stick. When the needle got to almost the tip of the end of the T i had 250 on the dip stick.
According to this diagram my temp gauge is working correctly, 
STILL 250 Is to HOT
Posted by: Jaybird Nov 15 2008, 09:04 PM
Ferg: I presume the oil temp gauge you refer to is what is on my (your old) 914? What temp is "ok"; ie; do I check it running? Or as soon as I shut it off? 
The interior gauge is not working at all. Thanks, Jay
Posted by: Ferg Nov 15 2008, 09:30 PM
Ferg: I presume the oil temp gauge you refer to is what is on my (your old) 914? What temp is "ok"; ie; do I check it running? Or as soon as I shut it off?
The interior gauge is not working at all. Thanks, JayJay, no worries, I installed the cooler on that car right off the bat when I bought it. Never had a problem after.
That guage was working before it left me? What is it doing, if it's pegging when turned on, you have a ground issue.
Ferg
Posted by: Gint Nov 15 2008, 09:37 PM
Sorry about the thread hijack BTW! 
You're getting/posting some good info here.
Posted by: jc914 Nov 15 2008, 10:43 PM
Gint thread hijack NO way more info the better. Look what they are selling on ebay. A 914 BILLET OIL SUMP PLATE
they claim that it " The extra surface area that is gained with our unique fin design, works like a heat sink. That helps to keep your engine oil cooler"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-912E-914-BILLET-OIL-SUMP- PLATE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a
1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem270302915194QQitemZ270302915194QQptZMot
orsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
any one thinks this might work. 
Posted by: jc914 Nov 16 2008, 12:34 PM
I just did my oil change and cleaned the oil sump screen, just look at the old oil and the new oil the picture says it all . I also cleaned the oil cooler with brake cleaner and the surounding areas that had old oil residue. I did notice that one of my heat exchanger the driver side had a gap on the connection and was releasing hot air in an upward direction i fixed that. The PO disconnected the thermostat wire. So if i am correct when it fail it is in the open setting. today in MIAMI is a cool 70 degrees later i will run the car again and see if the temp has dropped.
Posted by: jc914 Nov 16 2008, 03:12 PM
OK I just got back from an 1 1/2 run in the car in traffic and highway drove her hard in and out durning my drive the temp out side was 68-70. At the end the car still marked a very steady 250 degrees. I guess my car just runs at that temp. On my original post I ran the car with 80 degrees outside temp and the oil temp was also steady at 250. In all at least I know that at 80 or 68-70 degrees outside temp my car runs at a steady 250 degrees. So If i am correct my car is cooling b/c at 80outside temp the oil is the same as 68 degrees outside temp . The only thing else that i want to do before i consider extra oil cooler is giving a tune up (wires, spark plugs, rotor distributer cap, and valve adjustments)
Posted by: Ferg Nov 16 2008, 08:05 PM
Flaps are supposed to fail in the "safe" mode, but it's always best to verify... grab the tab where the wire connects and move them by hand and make sure they are not binding or stuck.
Do you have emissions in FL? If so did you pass easy and what were your readouts.
Ferg
Posted by: southernmost914 Nov 16 2008, 08:36 PM
No emissions in FL. Timeing and valve adjustment has allot to do with temperatures. In this climate 220-250f oil temp seems to be normal to high. Get it tuned and see what you get. 
Steve
Posted by: jc914 Nov 16 2008, 09:28 PM
thanks Steve i plan to have her tuned hopefully next month. I just got back from a long drive to south beach i keep checking the temp it got it at 240 but the outside temp went down to 60.
Freg I tried looking for the tab but i did not see it I will try again this week. I did see the wheel the cable is to go through will the tab be hidden above that
Posted by: Ferg Nov 17 2008, 10:25 AM
Here you go...
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Thermostats.html
Ferg
Posted by: jc914 Nov 17 2008, 11:48 AM
Thank ferg I checked they are fully open. I guess Steve is right for this climate that I am in. Steve what temps to you get on your oil and or CHT Gauge i would like the information.
Ferg. If i was to get an oil cooler can I use any aftermarket brand or does some one have a kit for sale. Thanks
Posted by: Ferg Nov 17 2008, 12:20 PM
Nobody really has a kit...
Depends on where you want to put it as well. Best spot is up front no doubt, but I've had "OK" success under the rear trunk above the pass side drive shaft. (was done to keep front end and overall of car "stock") it had about a 20 or so degree reduction, at max.
ut now that I have a proper front cooler on my 911 it works so well, I will go up front on the next 914 I own.
I pieced mine together with AN fittings and a mocal cooler from here http://www.batinc.net/mocal.htm They have everything, including the sandwich plate type thermostat.
Posted by: southernmost914 Nov 17 2008, 12:36 PM
Thank ferg I checked they are fully open. I guess Steve is right for this climate that I am in. Steve what temps to you get on your oil and or CHT Gauge i would like the information.
Ferg. If i was to get an oil cooler can I use any aftermarket brand or does some one have a kit for sale. Thanks
I would say 180-220F oil temp since I went to a mallory dizzy and a correct tune. CHT I have seen 375F in fifth 65mph with a 30knot headwind and A/C on. That was my ultimate test. Normaly in the summer 320-350 CHT.
Steve
Posted by: jc914 Nov 17 2008, 01:39 PM
thanks for the replies Ferg and Steve. I hope by Dec/Jan i will have my heat issue taken care off. Once again thanks for all the help. Got to save some money for the Dakota digital, and the full tune up.
I know this might be stupid but whats a mallory dizzy. I am new to all this ( the mechanical side )
Posted by: southernmost914 Nov 17 2008, 07:27 PM
thanks for the replies Ferg and Steve. I hope by Dec/Jan i will have my heat issue taken care off. Once again thanks for all the help. Got to save some money for the Dakota digital, and the full tune up.
I know this might be stupid but whats a mallory dizzy. I am new to all this ( the mechanical side )
Mallory unilite distributor for carbed cars. FYI today at ambient temps of 71F= oil temp was 180F,CHT 248F. Good Luck
Steve
Posted by: jc914 Nov 19 2008, 11:38 PM
How important is to have an oil pressure gauge.
Posted by: southernmost914 Nov 20 2008, 02:06 PM
How important is to have an oil pressure gauge.
IMHO the most important. You really need oil pressure, oil temperature and CHT to monitor your engine. Better yet 4 CHTs
Steve
Posted by: jc914 Nov 20 2008, 03:00 PM
Thanks steve I am going to get Oil pressure and a cht. as for the oil pressure which sender do I get. look at the link below I want a dual sender for the light and the gauge. The differnce is a floating ground or a standard ground. which one do i get.
http://egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?Sender=80PSI_5Bar_VDO
Also Steve you have an A/C like I do in the car where did you place the extra 2 gauges in the dash.
Once again Thank YOU
JC
Posted by: southernmost914 Nov 20 2008, 03:47 PM
sending unit 360-900 , and I have no stock gauges in the console.
Steve
Posted by: southernmost914 Nov 20 2008, 03:52 PM
Sending unit well grounded ( I swear that is not teflon tape on those fittings)with high pressure hose, grease gun or aeroquip hose.
Steve
Posted by: jc914 Nov 20 2008, 04:29 PM
THANKS SO MUCH STEVE thats exactly the information I needed
JC
Posted by: marks914 Nov 20 2008, 05:24 PM
Thanks steve I am going to get Oil pressure and a cht. as for the oil pressure which sender do I get. look at the link below I want a dual sender for the light and the gauge. The differnce is a floating ground or a standard ground. which one do i get.
http://egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?Sender=80PSI_5Bar_VDO
Also Steve you have an A/C like I do in the car where did you place the extra 2 gauges in the dash.
Once again Thank YOU
JC
Put them in a quad gauge, no holes anywhere! Even put a CHT in there
Mark
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2103925250057582025WNbPvu
Posted by: southernmost914 Nov 20 2008, 06:04 PM
That gauge is a work of art. In a South Florida climate having to compansate for ambient temperatures would drive me crazy. I'm all about marketing but I think JC is on a $$$$$$ controlled cost plan.
Steve
Posted by: jc914 Nov 20 2008, 08:01 PM
Those Gauges are really really nice If i had the money i would buy but right now i am totally on a budget.
Posted by: KaptKaos Nov 20 2008, 11:50 PM
I just put one of these gauges in my car tonight. 
Anyone have experience with these compared to the dipstick gauge?
(note: the one I put in was in better shape, this is the spare )
Posted by: KaptKaos Nov 22 2008, 12:26 AM
Anyone have experience with this gauge?
Posted by: jc914 Nov 22 2008, 08:02 AM
I have not but here is a bump hope some one can answer you.
Posted by: jc914 Nov 22 2008, 08:02 AM
I have not but here is a bump hope some one can answer you.
Posted by: marks914 Nov 22 2008, 09:17 AM
300 deg is at the beginning of the red. Make sure you have the right sender, which I think is NLA.
Mark
Posted by: KaptKaos Nov 22 2008, 01:07 PM
300 deg is at the beginning of the red. Make sure you have the right sender, which I think is NLA.
Mark
I think I bought it from Pelican some time ago (over 2 years). It doesn't look like the one on their site now. It has a longer "sensor" than the one on their site.
I have a sender form another motor that looks like the new one I just installed. I guess we'll see when I finish wiring it up.
Posted by: marks914 Nov 22 2008, 01:14 PM
300 deg is at the beginning of the red. Make sure you have the right sender, which I think is NLA.
Mark
I think I bought it from Pelican some time ago (over 2 years). It doesn't look like the one on their site now. It has a longer "sensor" than the one on their site.
I have a sender form another motor that looks like the new one I just installed. I guess we'll see when I finish wiring it up.
TRhere should be some numbers on the sender, that should tell you what yo have
Mark
Posted by: jc914 Nov 23 2008, 05:12 PM
I was re in stalling my Sway bar "rear ball links (what a pain) but did it. So went looking about underneath the car i found this. It is located above the heat exchangers. does this affect the cooling of the oil. (WHAT is this part for)
Posted by: Gint Nov 23 2008, 07:38 PM
That boot is the cooling vent for the alternator. If it's off, you'll lose some cooling air flow from the rest of the system, so in theory it would affect your oil temps. But I doubt it would be by much. I can't quite tell from that pic, but if it's disconnected you should loosen that clamp and put it back on.
Posted by: jc914 Nov 24 2008, 06:14 PM
yes it is disconnected i tried to push it in but i was not able to. I really donot want to remove the heat exchanger.
Posted by: jc914 Nov 24 2008, 08:48 PM
Does any one knows if this really affects the oil cooling. look two posts up.
Posted by: jc914 Nov 25 2008, 10:16 AM
giving my self a bump
Posted by: southernmost914 Nov 25 2008, 04:51 PM
Does any one knows if this really affects the oil cooling. look two posts up.
No it should not effect your oil temperature but will effect altenator temperature. Yes you should replace the boot when you can(rubber boot has shrunk and hardened). Don't sweat it.
Steve
Posted by: jc914 Dec 2 2008, 06:09 PM
Thanks Steve
I just ordered from egauges the VDO CHT and the VDO Oil Pressure guage with the dual sensor. I also installed a digital thermostat that gives me both the engine bay ambient temperature, and my cabin temperature, and bonus clock. Once i start my install may be this weekend i will post pictures and my result of my CHT temp.
I have been reading about the VDO CHT and that they are set to 70 degrees ambient temperature. My question is in some posts they say you have to you use the ambient temperature where the gauge is located others say the temperature of the sending wire. which one temp do i use. ??????????????????????
Posted by: southernmost914 Dec 2 2008, 06:18 PM
Thanks Steve
I just ordered from egauges the VDO CHT and the VDO Oil Pressure guage with the dual sensor. I also installed a digital thermostat that gives me both the engine bay ambient temperature, and my cabin temperature, and bonus clock. Once i start my install may be this weekend i will post pictures and my result of my CHT temp.
I have been reading about the VDO CHT and that they are set to 70 degrees ambient temperature. My question is in some posts they say you have to you use the ambient temperature where the gauge is located others say the temperature of the sending wire. which one temp do i use. ??????????????????????
My understanding is gauge ambient temp. on the VDO.
This is why with A/C and plus 90F ambients, I did not use the VDO.Steve
Posted by: jc914 Dec 2 2008, 06:21 PM
Thanks Again Steve. That was also my understanding
Just read the review at this http://www.ratwell.com/technical/VDOGauges.html
the temp to be used is at the junction b/w the sender and the wire going to the gauge. Makes sense
Posted by: jc914 Dec 6 2008, 11:45 AM
I got my gauges I will install next weekend. I have also decide to replace the oil again b/c after reading some post I realized that the oil I used Castrol GTX high millage is not good. I went to pepboys and got some Royal Purple (from what I have read second best too Brad Penn oil). Next time I do an oil change I am going with Brad Penn.
Posted by: jc914 Dec 14 2008, 04:50 PM
I think my install came out Great I have not connected the gauges to the senders yet. I am waiting to do a full tune up and then i will connect them. Last week I changed my oil to Royal purple from Castrol high millage gtx and I added to much. My nine year old push rod leak really leaked on me. I got under the car played with the push rod and now it has gone back to its normal leaking......
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