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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Crank Position Sensor
Posted by: McMark Jun 13 2009, 07:23 PM
Since quite a few people were interested in crank fire and aftermarket FI system I finally finished up my crank position sensor setup. So if you want to run distributor-less ignition or modern FI, this setup is the ONLY setup built specifically to bolt onto a Type 4.
It's a complete bolt on upgrade, which means no drilling or modifying any parts to make this work. Only the cooling fan needs to be removed to complete the installation.
This setup is great for modern FI system, which need a 'trigger signal'. Fuel only setups usually get their signal from the coil firing, but that signal is DIRTY and unreliable. This crank fire setup is smooth and clean. You can't beat it.
There is no other setup built specifically for our motors. Quick easy installation with no headaches.
Complete package price is $175 and includes the trigger wheel, the sensor, and the mounting bracket. You won't need to go searching for anything else.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Gint Jun 13 2009, 07:25 PM
When I get to phaseII I'm in for one!
Posted by: kwales Jun 13 2009, 07:28 PM
I nominate McMark for sainthood......
I propose that we al know him henceforth as Saint McMark of the position sensor and we all send him offerings of $175.00.....
Posted by: hcdmueller Jun 13 2009, 08:30 PM
Let me know how to pay and I will take one. I am collecting parts for my return later this year. This checks off several boxes.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jun 13 2009, 08:37 PM
when I start to do FI and ignoition, I'm totally IN this is a great deal, imo
Posted by: jhadler Jun 14 2009, 01:07 AM
As soon as I can figure out if I can swing it, I'll be getting this. Even if I don't do EFI now, I won't have to pull the motor to do it later...
-Josh2
Posted by: CliffBraun Jun 14 2009, 02:04 AM
I have some questions, Looks really nice though.
Is it a hall effect sensor? if so, how do the sections removed for weight affect signal?
Also, There seems to be a set of teeth with a way larger gap than the others. What's up with that?
As I understand crank position you want to know at least two positions of the crank for a 4 cyl 4 stroke (two cyls fire/crank rotation) I might be wrong though.
Posted by: jimkelly Jun 14 2009, 06:03 AM
i'm guessing that gap is TDC - top dead center.
jim
Posted by: zymurgist Jun 14 2009, 06:58 AM
Sweet!
Posted by: ottox914 Jun 14 2009, 08:37 AM
I have some questions, Looks really nice though.
Is it a hall effect sensor? if so, how do the sections removed for weight affect signal?
Also, There seems to be a set of teeth with a way larger gap than the others. What's up with that?
As I understand crank position you want to know at least two positions of the crank for a 4 cyl 4 stroke (two cyls fire/crank rotation) I might be wrong though.
Look closely and see that there are 35 teeth, one missing. 360 degrees is a circle. The "missing tooth" is now a reference point for TDC.
The programing of the SDS requires a different sensor set up, so this new system may not be of much help for that ECU, but for those looking to do MS, this is the right tool for the job, priced right, easy to install.
Great job.
Posted by: DNHunt Jun 14 2009, 08:55 AM
Really nice Mark. Simple.
Posted by: toon1 Jun 14 2009, 08:56 AM
Looks good Mark. Do you have pics. of how the sensor mounts to the case?
Posted by: Spoke Jun 14 2009, 09:01 AM
Really cool! The Type IV moving into the 21st century.
A question though and probably shows my lack of knowledge on the subject, I remember on my Subaru having to change not only the crank angle sensor but also the cam angle sensor.
With TDC of the crank being for 2 of the cylinders, how do you know which cylinder to fire? When I was prepping the engine for my red 914, I couldn't tell if I had the dizzy pointing to the right cylinder w/o removing a valve cover to check for TDC of cylinder 1.
Posted by: DNHunt Jun 14 2009, 09:15 AM
Jerry
The system is batch fire Fuel and wasted spark ignition. The spark fires in 1&3 together and 2&4 together so it always fires 2 plugs. It will fire a pair of cylinders near TDC on the compression stroke in one and near TDC on the exhaust stroke in the other. Because the exhaust gasis a poor conductor very little spark energy is used and that little bit is wasted hence the name. It eliminates the need for a cam sensor.
I suppose you could say it is not state of the art but it is pretty simple and doesn't give up much to very elaborate systems that use a cam sensor to control each cylinder on its own.
Dave
Posted by: toon1 Jun 14 2009, 09:17 AM
With the 36-1 trigger wheel, the missing tooth indicates TDC. Tooth #10( in this case)indicates10* BTDC and fires cyl.#1
When mounting the trigger wheel, the engine must be brought to TDC.(just like installing a dizzy.)
It does not matter where the sensor is mounted Or where the missing tooth is placed, as long as the sensor points to a certain tooth on the wheel( #10 I think) form the missing tooth in the rotation of the engine
When you configure the programming in the software there is a decoder program which is configured for a 4 cyl.(simple to do) Everytime the sensor senses the missing tooth the computer know to start a new cycle.
I have my sensor mounted to the fan shroud at about the 10 o clock posistion where Mark has his at about 8 o clock
Posted by: CliffBraun Jun 14 2009, 12:49 PM
With the 36-1 trigger wheel, the missing tooth indicates TDC. Tooth #10( in this case)indicates10* BTDC and fires cyl.#1
When mounting the trigger wheel, the engine must be brought to TDC.(just like installing a dizzy.)
It does not matter where the sensor is mounted Or where the missing tooth is placed, as long as the sensor points to a certain tooth on the wheel( #10 I think) form the missing tooth in the rotation of the engine
When you configure the programming in the software there is a decoder program which is configured for a 4 cyl.(simple to do) Everytime the sensor senses the missing tooth the computer know to start a new cycle.
I have my sensor mounted to the fan shroud at about the 10 o clock posistion where Mark has his at about 8 o clock
Thanks, Nice product. Has anyone figured out a good way to do a cam sensor?
Posted by: 904svo Jun 14 2009, 12:56 PM
With the 36-1 trigger wheel, the missing tooth indicates TDC. Tooth #10( in this case)indicates10* BTDC and fires cyl.#1
When mounting the trigger wheel, the engine must be brought to TDC.(just like installing a dizzy.)
It does not matter where the sensor is mounted Or where the missing tooth is placed, as long as the sensor points to a certain tooth on the wheel( #10 I think) form the missing tooth in the rotation of the engine
When you configure the programming in the software there is a decoder program which is configured for a 4 cyl.(simple to do) Everytime the sensor senses the missing tooth the computer know to start a new cycle.
I have my sensor mounted to the fan shroud at about the 10 o clock position where Mark has his at about 8 o clock
Thanks, Nice product. Has anyone figured out a good way to do a cam sensor?
Modify the distrubutor for cam position sensor, thats what Ford did.
Posted by: McMark Jun 14 2009, 01:38 PM
Why would you want a cam sensor? You will find no appreciable benefit to going with sequential injection, so you're talking about adding complexity for zero benefit. 
This system uses a VR sensor, not a Hall Sensor. SDS requires the use of a Hall Sensor, so this system will not work with SDS.
Here is a detail of the sensor mount.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Jacob Jun 14 2009, 02:12 PM
Looks like the center hub is about the same thickness as the stock washer, right? That is great! That means you are not adversely affecting you cooling system. How is the toothed ring affixed to the hub. Press fit? Welded?
Looks like great workmanship.
Posted by: McMark Jun 14 2009, 02:25 PM
The toothed wheel replaces the stock 'washer' and installs in the same manner. The toothed wheel is 'sandwiched' between the hub and the fan, just like the stock piece.
Posted by: Dr Evil Jun 14 2009, 03:54 PM
WTG man 
Posted by: Jake Raby Jun 14 2009, 04:21 PM
This is the exact method that my DFI system is being triggered that we have been working on for about 9 months now.. I am doing it mostly for upright conversions.
For the stock cooling system this is the absolute most logical way to go.. Congrats to Mark for making this progress for the stock cooling arrangement.. It'll help a lot of people that have this hurdle when going to MS..
Posted by: RonW Jul 12 2009, 04:15 PM
Mark,
Nicely executed. I had trigger wheels made up for the upright conversion and at the time wasnt really thinking of stock cooling for MS (cuz i was in tunnel vision mode to get my shit running.) If you need spark tables, let me know, I've had mine up and running for about 2 year now on my 2270
best regards
ron
Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 13 2009, 09:42 AM
Nice Mark!
Posted by: Mark Henry Jul 13 2009, 01:24 PM
Wrong one for me as well, but great product and good price.
I know how long it took to fab mine and I just had to make a disc (SDS, hall effect) and drill a few holes.
Posted by: falconfp2001 Aug 17 2011, 12:44 PM
Is there a block off plate available for the Distributor?
Frank
Posted by: kevin311 Aug 17 2011, 03:02 PM
Here you go.
http://www.boostengineering.net/product_p/vwplug.htm
Posted by: falconfp2001 Aug 17 2011, 03:12 PM
Here you go.
http://www.boostengineering.net/product_p/vwplug.htm
perfect, now I know I can do the MS setup I want. I was following your initial build thread and checked out your products.
Do you sell the wiring harness separately?
Would a Bosch TPS from a later 911/924 or 944 work?
Frank
Posted by: neum5885 Mar 22 2013, 04:53 PM
Are these crank wheels still available? I would like to put one on the type 4 in my 912E. I rebuilt the motor last year and switched to a MS2. Now I want to upgrade to electronic ignition.
Posted by: McMark Mar 22 2013, 07:48 PM
Yup!
http://www.originalcustoms.com/store/product.php?productid=11&cat=4&page=1
Posted by: Mueller Dec 14 2017, 10:36 AM
Mark,
Do you know what connector is used for this sensor? I might trade for an unused kit that someone bought from you, no connector included.
Thanks,
Posted by: McMark Dec 14 2017, 11:41 AM
I'll send you one with the pins, or do you want a pigtail already crimped?
Posted by: Mueller Dec 14 2017, 11:58 AM
I'll send you one with the pins, or do you want a pigtail already crimped?
Thanks, not needed now, I was going to trade for the trigger kit in the classifieds, then realized my MS-II is setup for Hall sensor so that kit won't work.
Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 14 2017, 02:06 PM
Hey Mark your store is closed. 
If you have one of those set it aside for me. I want one for Aric's 912 Type IV conversion. I have a stock intake and TB. Also want one of your F.I. conversion kits.
Posted by: Mueller Dec 14 2017, 02:30 PM
Hey Mark your store is closed.
If you have one of those set it aside for me. I want one for Aric's 912 Type IV conversion. I have a stock intake and TB. Also want one of your F.I. conversion kits.
Not to take a sale away from Mark.... http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=319945
I too noticed store was closed
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