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Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 7 2004, 11:31 PM

What is everyone paying for gas?
Its $2.00 for regular here in Phoenix.
Was $1.80 in Seattle when I left on Thursday

Geoff

Posted by: DrifterJay Mar 7 2004, 11:33 PM

2.20 for regular in san diego/riverside cali

Posted by: markb Mar 7 2004, 11:38 PM

I paid 2.19 last night in Morro Bay. Cheapest price in the county.

Posted by: biosurfer1 Mar 7 2004, 11:56 PM

i paid 1.98 yesterday at safeway with my buyers card discount, 2.01 without..

Posted by: GWN7 Mar 8 2004, 12:00 AM

$0.77L (less 5 cents discount) X 4/ rate of exchange

Posted by: Rob Ways Mar 8 2004, 12:07 AM

$2.23... gotta love it.

Posted by: Rich Bontempi Mar 8 2004, 12:10 AM

I saw an independant station with regular at $1.99 today in Redwood City Ca.

Posted by: J P Stein Mar 8 2004, 12:12 AM

A buck & 98 for primo today......cheep at half the price.

Posted by: don9146 Mar 8 2004, 12:20 AM

Its at about $1.70 per gallon in Tennessee.

Posted by: Jenny Mar 8 2004, 12:23 AM

$1.99 regular by my parents' and Pat W's place. Usually the cheapest gas around town.

Jen

Posted by: Mike9142.0 Mar 8 2004, 12:24 AM

$1.95 was the best I could find.
Cost me $18.00 to fill up my bug

Posted by: ChrisReale Mar 8 2004, 12:44 AM

You guys aint seen shit...the closest gas station to our place has 91 oct at $2.45 per gallon, and Ive seen it higher! Needless to say, I dont buy it there

Posted by: ThinAir914 Mar 8 2004, 12:47 AM

87 Octane Regular for $1.74 at Safeway after 3 cent per gallon discount.

Posted by: RocknRollFrenzy Mar 8 2004, 12:54 AM

2.19 for 87 octane at the place down the street. a little less if i want to drive a little more. i actually managed to put more than $10.00 of gas in a motorcycle the other day. looks like the pedal bike is coming out for the work commute now that the weathers getting nicer again.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 8 2004, 01:13 AM

Marin county: 2.45 for regular (87)

Anyone know why they are F-ing us this time ??


B

Posted by: ChrisReale Mar 8 2004, 01:17 AM

I have been wondering this myself. Didn't we just capture the dictator fo one of the most oil rich countries in the world? Yet we are still fighting "skirmishes" all over Iraq....wtf

Posted by: JOHNMAN Mar 8 2004, 01:18 AM

Geeeezzz.

I love the midwest. (Especially after reading this!)

{And I thought gas was high}


Drum roll please...

$1.55 - $1.65 (it fluctuates daily sometimes more often)

Kansas City, MO

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 8 2004, 01:20 AM

saw $3.01 for premium today!!!!

i lucked out and filled up yesterday for $2.65 (premium).

the real question is:
who actually believes that this has ANYTHING to do with the market for crude oil?????

Andy

Posted by: ChrisReale Mar 8 2004, 01:22 AM

Seriously, its probably some fat fuck white guy sitting in an office saying what the prices can be

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 8 2004, 01:25 AM

Andy,

what car are you driving that requires "premium" ?


B

Posted by: VegasRacer Mar 8 2004, 01:41 AM

$6.00 per gallon .....











... for 110 octane race gas.

Posted by: ChrisReale Mar 8 2004, 01:51 AM

Phucker

Posted by: jkeyzer Mar 8 2004, 02:01 AM

Haha... There's a 76 on Fell (I think) that is usually $0.20 higher than the Arco RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. It's funny.

Posted by: thesey914 Mar 8 2004, 02:59 AM

Quit bitchin' Ya'll....we pay $6.48 (79 pence per litre at current EX rate) .....it is 95 octane so I guess we should be thankful for that

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 8 2004, 03:08 AM

Yeah, but we know why your Petrol prices are high (taxes).. our prices fluctuate because the wind blows.

B

Posted by: FlatSix Mar 8 2004, 07:19 AM

Brad,

Our petrol (gas) prices have been steady all year.

When I was in California earlier this year gas prices were going up daily, and it sounds like they still are. I still wanted to bring some home with me though!

Andy

Posted by: rhaas Mar 8 2004, 07:31 AM

Just filled the truck $1.45 for regular

Posted by: Pnambic Mar 8 2004, 07:37 AM

There was a story on the news recently where some "think tank" said they were alarmed that the gas prices were already so high, but that they expected the prices to continue to rise. However, in there divine wisdom, they wouldn't say how high b/c they were afraid that their estimate would give the gas stations an excuse to keep rising.

I hate the smoke and mirrors pricing stategy for gas. As a utility for all intents and purposes, I think the public has a right to reliable and transparent prices. I know they need to make money and that's fine, but periodic price gouging is rediculous.

I remember prices for 87 octane jumping to over $5.00 a gallon in the day or two that followed 9/11. Thats just shameful.

My 2cents.

Oh yeah....its about $1.70 for 87 octane, around $1.85 for premium here (plus/minus $.20 depending on a complicated equation based on sunspots and the current birthing rate of Alaskan Salmon.)

Posted by: vsg914 Mar 8 2004, 07:39 AM

Just saw this on the morning news. Yesterday, a new Arco station opened in San Diego, and was selling gas for $.90 per gallon.

$1.55 for 87octane,$1.75 for 93 in T-town

Posted by: maf914 Mar 8 2004, 08:00 AM

We complain about the price of gas at $2.00 a gallon, then turn around and pay around $4.00 per gallon for Coca Cola (sugar and water), $12.00 for beer (hops and water), $40.00 for wine (grapes and water), $50.00 for whiskey (grain and water), and $$$(?) for mineral water (water). Why do we do this?

Mike

Posted by: Red-Beard Mar 8 2004, 08:02 AM

Yeah, they did it for 6 hours and it was a grand opening event. 3 hour wait to get in.

The cheapest nearby $2.099.

Average in the country 2.227, all time high.

This helps a bit

http://www.fueltracker.com/newmenu/home.html?id=home&title=Home

My take: California F's itself.

We have 1 fuel terminal in San Diego country and _every_ gas station has to buy gas from there.

Why do we have 1 fuel terminal? The regualtory nightmare. What You have to go through to get a second company setup, it would not be profitable.

Ditto for fuel production. Companies are fleeing California, not just for taxes situation, but also the regulations here.

James

Posted by: itsa914 Mar 8 2004, 08:16 AM

It's a $1.77 here but in the next county over, which is only 5 miles from my house it's $1.56 WTF.

- Garold

Posted by: TROJANMAN Mar 8 2004, 08:43 AM

$1.76 for 91 octane. costco has the best prices here

Posted by: ! Mar 8 2004, 08:53 AM

Refinery maiantenance and upgrades...short supply gas prices go up....it will satabilise and come down....eventually, but I see 3 bucks soon...

250+ for 91 in town.

Posted by: Jenny Mar 8 2004, 10:45 AM

somewhere on 19th in SF, there are actually two gas stations across the street from eachother, same company, different prices. By about $.20!! I guess it's worth it to some to NOT make that U-turn.

Takes about $40 to fill up my tank. Can't wait to drive the 914 again...

Jen

Posted by: davep Mar 8 2004, 11:27 AM

I heard the excuse was high crude prices due to unrest in South America, probably Venezuela. Still, it is only speculation in the futures market that really affects the prices. It is all the middlemen getting rich at our expense.

With all the mad-cow scare the live weight price dropped to $0.10 per pound in Canada. You Yanks got ripped off by your own producers since supply was cut off and they could jack the prices up. Here, the middlemen damn near got the cows for free, but the retail price did not change.

Time to fire up the BBQ and put a different kind of animal on the spit: the middlemen. Are you worried about Al Qaeda? Don't be. The guys you have to watch for are the corporate terrorists that ran Worldcom, Enron and even Martha Stewart. I'd rather see a few bombed out boardrooms than caves in the middle east. Now I'm not saying the price of gas is outrageous in relation to so many other things, but the way this is all managed is outrageous. It is not just the US by itself, primarily it is the G7 as a group. And Bill Gates wants us to pay for "stamps" on our emails? I guess he feels he doesn't have all the money in the world yet!

Posted by: Pnambic Mar 8 2004, 11:33 AM

Gates wouldn't get a dime...actually, he'd probably figure out a way to get a big portion I'm sure, but the idea of taxing email is to get rid of spammers. It's easy to send out 2 billion emails when it doesn't cost anything, but once that starts adding up, they'll get a little more selective concerning who they're emailing. *hopefully*

I know I get 20 spam emails to every non-spam email every day.

Posted by: drew365 Mar 8 2004, 11:35 AM

They claim it's caused by a shortage of the reformulated gas we use here in California in the winter, and is now being used in several other states. If that's the case, why is diesel which isn't reformulated, going up with regular?
The truth is they have us by the nuts and can squeeze whenever they feel like it. I wonder if Bush has ever had to pay for a tank of gas?
I remember when his Dad went into a grocery store for the first time and was surprised to see bar code scanning.

Posted by: lagunero Mar 8 2004, 11:50 AM

Regular 2.25!!! 91 @ 2.45. In CA we are higher only cuz of Road Improvement Taxes.

They raise the prices because they know we will pay! We can't prove them wrong!


What gas should I be putting in my stock 1.7, I was told 91 so that's what I've been doing. If regular is good than I can save some money.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Mar 8 2004, 11:58 AM

1.54 in Gautier MS.

I whine about that. But I try and do my part by riding my bicycle 3 days a week. Can't wait to get my teener here. tank of gas should last me a month.

Not to get on a soap box BUT!!! If we all did not drive one day what would it cost these knot head oil MILLIONAIRS??

OK jumpin off. Looks Like me and RHAAS have the cheapest gas.

Posted by: STL914 Mar 8 2004, 11:59 AM

Just filled up my SUV yesterday, in the St. Louis area, with Reg, at $1.54 per gallon. Highest I've seen here has been around $1.68. Strange how it shoots up .12 to .20 a gallon in a matter of hours, but drops only .01/.02 per day.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Mar 8 2004, 12:00 PM

Oh by the way Rigzone.com shows they are selling gas for 1.14 gal. So who is making the extra profit??

Posted by: Steve Thacker Mar 8 2004, 12:05 PM

You guys on the left coast are getting fucked. Call up ole Ah..nold and ask the dumb shit why you guys are getting screwed and why the price is $1.57 for regular and 1.87 for high test in Ohio? You folks need to get on their ass. Gas costs no more for you to get it...than us. Sounds like political TAX greed in Calif.

Posted by: mikester Mar 8 2004, 12:08 PM

I think the EU method for determining octane is different from ours. So your 95 is probably the same as our 91, at least that is how it was in the 70's. For example - my sticker in my 914 says 91 but here in the states our pump octane is calculated differently and thus it is really 87 that my car is asking for.

So you're paying more for the same 91 we are paying too much for. We're all getting screwed. I spent $1.75 to get to work today on the bus and read a book and DIDN'T sit in traffic for a minute.

Posted by: maf914 Mar 8 2004, 12:21 PM

I wish I could read a book while going to work too, but if I had to pay $175 for a one way bus ride I think I'd choose to keep driving my 10 miles! That would add up real fast! $175 x 2 ways x 260 days/year = $91,000! Lots of 914's in that.

Mike

Posted by: lagunero Mar 8 2004, 12:23 PM

In CA we VOTED YES for higher taxes!!

When asked "would you like bigger and better roads?" we sold our souls to the devil or whatever political party reigned in CA at the time. Now it's time to pay the fiddler.

Posted by: mikester Mar 8 2004, 12:28 PM

smart ass...

Edited. I meant $1.75...

The reason that I have been hearing/reading that CA prices are going up so high is because on 1/1/04 it was now required that the cheaper MTBE additive be removed in favor of the cleaner and more expensive Ethanol additive. Apparently with ethanol it is harder to refine...yadda yadda yadda. It's all crap, the cost of living is different hear than in the midwest. It's not like we pay the same as someone in ohio for homes and such and that GAS is the only thing we're getting the shaft on comparably. But, it's still all crap so I ride the bus. Even if the price of a gallon of gas vs the cost of a one way trip on the bus were the same - I'd still take the bus, it's just easier and I'm sticking it to the oil man.

Posted by: Howard R Mar 8 2004, 01:05 PM

96c/litre (US 1.26) for 96 octane. How many litres in a US gal??

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 8 2004, 01:11 PM

i always put premium (91) in my little baby,
otherwise i get a ugly "knock" under load

Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 8 2004, 01:12 PM

3.something ...
don't have the exact number handy, around 3.5 i think.

Andy

Posted by: Zaney Mar 8 2004, 01:35 PM

I was CCed on an e-mail chain letter that basically said, that if you pick one day out of the week not to buy gas it would help Stick to the Man! So, I suggested " F the Man Fridays". If people boycotted the pumps one day a week then maybe prices would come down. I don't know, it is just an idea.
I am all for taking the bus, riding my bicycle, and carpooling. Anything to not sit in traffic and Stick it to the Oil Man!
Spring is coming and so is $3.00+ a gallon.

Nate

Posted by: mikester Mar 8 2004, 01:40 PM

On a stock engine you shouldn't hear any knock under load with 87. If you are, I'd investigate your timing.

Posted by: jarbuthnot Mar 8 2004, 01:51 PM

$1.77 for regular in far, eastern Maine. $1.87 for super, which is what I was told I should put in my 914. From what I'm reading, I shouldn't have to?

For a list of gas prices near you, try www.gasprices.com
(sorry, haven't figured out how to put a link in).

Posted by: mikester Mar 8 2004, 02:10 PM

The octane rating is ROZ/RON where as pump octane is calculated as (R+M)/2. The label inside my porsche shows the method used; with a 91 as the number. The factory sticker is for RON only where as pump octane is an average of RON and MON ((R+M)/2). If your engine is not stock and of higher compression or not properly cooled and running warm then more octane may be required but a stock engine (4 cylinder, I don't have a six so I don't know sixes) with proper cooling shouldn't require any higher than 87 octane rating. If you've got the european domed pistons, your compression ratio is higher, thus it may require higher octane to reduce preignition. If you're positive about the timing and you do have a higher compression ratio than stock - you may experience preignition with "regular" and thus need a higher octane but bearing in mind the price of gas I would check out the mid grade.



Octane does not prevent the fuel from burning per say, it prevents uncontrolled burning. With proper compression, cooling and timing you won't have to waste money on higher octane to get the proper performance from your engine. OCtane also isn't "magic" stuff that makes cars faster. I hate the way the market gas...

Posted by: 7391420 Mar 8 2004, 02:23 PM

regular-1.65 west of boston

93- 1.85

-I seem to remeber that OPEC decided to reduce production several months ago, and to keep production low through the spring. It seems also that the supply/demand thing is highly dependent on how cold a winter we all have because a lot of oil-heating is pre-purchased in the fall... but if we have a really cold winter then the paid for supplies run out and the prices go up up up....

-doesn't seem like I have much to complain about though after seeing the prices that most of you are paying

Posted by: Kevin@ojai.net Mar 8 2004, 02:25 PM

Naa, Right now the price of beer (malted barley, hops, water, yeast) is cheaper then the price of gas. I figure probably around $2.00 +/- 0.50 /gal depending on the recipe...

-Kevin

Posted by: Pnambic Mar 8 2004, 02:45 PM

Boycotting the pumps for a day won't do a thing if you continue to drive your car to work, get groceries, soccer practice and all that other stuff. The Gas stations couldn't care less what day you go to fill up. As long as you keep burning it, you'll have to keep buying more.

Now, boycotting the use a fuel in general, like taking a bus / riding a bike / carpooling to work, would do good since that would decrease the amount of gas you use, thus you buy less the next time you stop at the pump, whatever day that may be.

Posted by: GWN7 Mar 8 2004, 03:14 PM

It's almost 4 liters to a US gallon (4.5 to an Imperial gal)

The price of beef on the hoof is running $0.06 to $0.07 per lbs. To process, cut and wrap costs about $1 per lbs. Think how much markup is happening when your in the store next time and your looking at a steak for $5.49 Lbs.

My neibour who cuts the hay at my farm keeps me apprised of the prices. He has 300 head of grain and grass feed beef sitting that he can't sell. Calfing season is just around the corner which means he will have almost 500 head by summer. Talk about a guy with his back against the wall. He usually buys my hay, but I told him to forget it till things turn around.

The mad cow is spread thru processed feed made from waste animal parts which is usually only found in large feed lot opperations. So if you never feed your cows any of that processed feed you don't have anything to worry about.

Posted by: anthony Mar 8 2004, 03:24 PM

If regular hits $3/gallon my next daily driver is going to be a VW TDI.

Posted by: need4speed Mar 8 2004, 03:25 PM

That's a BS argument.
Nobody *needs* beer, or bottled water, or whiskey.
EVERYBODY *needs* gasoline. From the stuff in your car to get to work, to the fuel in the jets that deliver your mail, to the trucks that deliver food from the farm to the grocery store, to the fuel in the tanks rolling through Baghdad right now to ensure our oil supply keeps growing. (Democracy? yeah right. Not as long as Chalabi has a hand in things).

Energy is an input to the economy - so energy costs act as a friction on the economy. It works the same as a tax. Our economy started to sag in late 1998. That's right around the time Venezuela's Hugo Chavez started prodding Opec to cut supply to prop up oil prices. A speech he made at the time (and I can't find a link for it anymore) said that the US had been having a great economy, and it was time for them to take a peice of the pie.

I'm not for going in and taking out Chavez (piece of dirt that he is) - he's democratically elected. But I think this is probably one of the most underreported and ignored news stories out there. The US economy is VERY sensitive to energy prices. And the oil industry does NOT want the government to interfere. Remember the outrage when Clinton tapped the strategic petroleum reserve to smooth off the price spike?



Whoa there - I'm with you on that there's serious need for corporate and regulatory reform here in the US. But that kind of talk will get you sent to Guantanamo.
Martha Stewart is the one they chose to make an example of. And you know what? She's only going to get 10-16 months. And her fans are *crying* at the sham. This is a careful propaganda ploy to tug at the public's heart strings to soften our response to the Enrons and Worldcoms. Don't fall for it. These guys deserve what they get. Call it a witch hunt if you will, but these gingerbread mansion execs are eating our children.



Yes, "boutique formulation" of Gasoline is what the oil industry is complaining about as the big bugaboo. Boo hoo. Remember when there was leaded and unleaded? I'm sure they'd want to go back to leaded if they could. The goal here, is to paint their political enemies - those who have made regulatory requirements for low-sulfur or oxygenated gasoline, as whiners, and the cause of the high gasoline prices. Ask any industry lobbyist, and they'll tell you that the problem is too much regulation. Poor babies don't want to have to do business responsibly. These are the same people who brought us Bhopal. Well, excuse me if I don't want to live in a place where the air is like Mexico city. Just look at how Houston, TX has taken over as the nation's smoggiest city from LA. Gasoline formulation works. Regulation works.

Don't misconstrue that as an argument for regulating antique cars though. I still say we should get rid of the politicians who propose that. A few thousand "weekend warriors" are nothing compared to the tens of millions of cars that drive to and from work every day.



No we didn't. We voted to whip out the credit card, then pat Ah-nold on the back as a financial genius who "balanced the budget".
Ah-nold, who is just a paid shill for Enron. Because $9 billion of prop 57 is going straight into the pockets of the cheating energy companies who ripped us off in 2000.


They do have us by the nuts, but they can't squeeze whenever they feel like it. They can only squeeze when we put their executives and their close freinds into public office.

Posted by: lagunero Mar 8 2004, 04:21 PM

On the taxes in CA, I meant a few Props (years) ago. I remember the # right now.

No one can fix CA in one term let alone in a fraction, but we always spend more than what comes in cuz we're such a friendly state, so I don't blame Ah-nold or Dubya for that matter. Our budgets are designed to be spent, if you don't spend it you don't get more.

McDonald's for example does not make their profits on .49 hamburgers, it's the daily millions of .49 that they need to invest worldwide. Disrupt that flow and you can send a message one day a week.

Watch for +3.00 until election time.

Posted by: majkos Mar 8 2004, 07:35 PM

Sorry guys,I just heard the (Opec-like) groups needed to create a little shortage to rid of the surplus.Good grief!

Posted by: tmp914 Mar 8 2004, 08:36 PM

$1.58 for regular, but it is going up last week I paid $1.53 I hear it will be $3.00 this summer

Posted by: FlatSix Mar 9 2004, 07:52 AM

Boycotting buying gas on a particular day was tried here, and failed.

Another way proposed was to boycott a particular brand, Esso (Exxon) I think it was. That way all those garages would have to reduce their prices to a point where some people would go back there. The other garages would then have to lower their prices to get custom.

This theory didn't really work because not everyone got to hear about it.

Andy

Posted by: RON S. Mar 9 2004, 08:13 AM

I'm paying 1.53 for regular,about 1.71 for premium.
I'm driving a Geo metro doin 47mpg.
Still,drivin 300 miles a week back and forth to work is pushin $20.00 a week in gas.
Ron

Posted by: jarbuthnot Mar 9 2004, 02:35 PM

I'm getting a new engine, shortly, which will be a 2L (up from 1.7), so guess what the owners manual says, no longer applies.

Haven't a clue what I have/will have (I'm mechanically challanged), but would assume it's stock. What is preignition and do I really care for a daily driver?

Edited - sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread

Posted by: Tony Mar 9 2004, 02:58 PM

Guys

I worked at a gas station during the first gas shortage. The funny thing was that we pump out the same amount of gas that month that we did the month before that. Every one was afriad that they wouldn't have gas to go work. So instead of the gas being in our ground tanks it was in every ones elses cars gas tank. They fill up as soon as the were a half a tank down at a higher price. that year the Oil companys make 300% proifts.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 9 2004, 03:19 PM

In Tampa:
87 oct is $1.69
89 oct is $1.79
93 oct is $1.89

Hey, didn't those left wing wack jobs say we went into Iraq for the oil?
Well how come the supplies are down and price is up?

Paul

Posted by: drew365 Mar 9 2004, 09:35 PM

Excuse me, but I resemble that remark!

I think they decided Saddam hid his oil inside the WMD's. They're still looking. Film at 11.

Posted by: Malmz Mar 9 2004, 09:56 PM

About $2.27 for regular around here. Of course, I filled up with diesel the other day for $1.86............... :-)

sm

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 9 2004, 10:03 PM

If you are getting a 2.0l almost everyone uses the Euro 94 mm pistons for 8to1 compression. You should use the premium gas running these or you will hear that "Pinging" taping sound when you floor it. Not a good sound! Its the gas preigniting before it should or exploding in a big bang instead of a slow burn pushing the pistons. This can slowly cause engine damage like broken rings which then leak oil and rob power.

How is the car otherwise? Hmm, why are you getting a 2.0l motor?

Geoff

Posted by: vortrex Mar 9 2004, 10:05 PM

94 octane was $1.93 here this morning.

Posted by: Rgreen914 Mar 9 2004, 11:30 PM

Had to fill up the wife's New Beetle the other day, cost me $35; still though, it's a lot cheaper than driving my big-block Burb!

If you think the price of gas is high right now...wait until Memorial Day! The gas companies always screw us royal for the summer!

Posted by: jarbuthnot Mar 10 2004, 10:09 AM

Pinging I know about from previous experience, so will definitely go with super, or whatever the guy who's building it says to do.

On the drive home from Oregon. I had some problems, and when my mechanic looked at it, he said some of the cylinders and pistons were bad and/or going. In a previous thread (new engine or rebuild), Brad recommended upgrading from 1.7 to 2.0. And since the 1.7 was like an old VW moter and couldn't pass a semi going up hill, I decided I wanted more power. Granted, that may have been due to the problems, but... Talked to Jake, who was extremely helpful, but he couldn't do it until May, so went with a guy in Boston, who Jake said he does business with.

Don't know how the car is, it's been sitting at my mechanic's for several months, covered with a cloth tarp and then a real tarp over it. So, I hope it's ok, but will soon see.

Posted by: need4speed Mar 10 2004, 12:56 PM

I ought to start a new thread for this. But it's related;

I'm looking into replacing my daily driver 240 Volvo with a more fuel-efficient car. The ultimate choice seems to be a TDI-based VW. The results of my "research":

1. California EPA restrictions impose a tax on diesels in 2004, because of tighter restrictions on Diesel fuel sulfer content. Since diesel fuel sold in California won't be able to meet those tighter restrictions until 2006, no diesels can be registered in California until that time, without the seller (or manufacturer?) paying this surcharge. Hence, VW has bowed out of the California market with their diesels. You may blame the California EPA for making overzealous restrictions that the diesel fuel suppliers can't (or won't) meet. Or you could blame the diesel fuel suppliers for not gearing up their production facilities to produce enough of the fuel that meets those requirements. I personally blame the oil companies, of course. That's just the way I am. Either way - the price of Diesel in California will definately go up as a result, and either way, VW told California to f-off.
So - IF the oil companies come through, and start supplying the low-sulfur diesel in California, or IF these restrictions are lifted, VW *may* again supply Diesels in California in 2006.

2. The Jetta is a tiny, tiny car. It has a crappy reliability rating from Consumer Reports, and from my brother in law's personal experience. (He was so pissed about his 92 Jetta, he said he'd disown me if I bought one). The TDI motor is readily available for the Jetta, and rates about 50 mpg on the highway. No hybrid I know of will do that. Hybrids tend to be better in stop-n-go traffic, because of the ability to utilize the regenerative braking. Hybrid proponents dispute this as anti-hybrid propaganda. (seems to me, the ideal compromise would be a diesel hybrid?)

3. The Passat is larger, same class as the Accord. I think it's based on the Audi A4 body. It also has a much better reliability rating than the Jetta. Also, generally about $10k more. The same 1.9l TDI engine still gets 50 mpg. I don't understand the physics behind that, but obviously, the Passat isn't going to have the same zip that the Jetta has with the same engine.

4. The Passat offered the TDI motor in 1996, 1997, and 1998. They were very rare. And the "official" VW "certified pre-owned VW" program won't sell a car older than 1999. 1999 was also the body-style change for the Passat. The 2004 Passat has the TDI motor as an option - but NOT in California.

5. The Toureg's V-10 is apparently also a Diesel. NOT available in California. This engine supposedly gets 35 mpg on the highway, which is better than the projected milage for the new hybrid trucks coming out of Detroit NEXT year. Damn, wouldn't it be kick ass to crowbar that v-10 into a teener. Along with the triptronic?

6. So far, it's been impossible to find a TDI Passat (1996-1998) in California. If anyone knows of one for sale, I'd like to hear about it. TDI Jettas come and go, and I guess the later ones may not be as bad as the 1990's ones. It also SEEMS that when I've seen TDI Jettas advertised, they're a couple thousand MORE in California. I may end up looking for one in Phoenix.

I only need a car to commute with, which means a Golf might even suit me - but for the occasional drive of kids and friends to school, basketball practice, etc. . . man, that's a tiny car.

Posted by: ! Mar 10 2004, 01:00 PM

I know it's rice, but what about the Toyota Prius Hybrid?

We have quite a few in the pool at work and Toyota is selling them below thier cost....dunno why. They do very well in stop and go, get 45mpg.