Hey gang, just ordered a COA for Das Frog. Seen in some other posts that these can be rather inaccurate and incomplete. Just got a phone message from the women whom is working on it, saying they are checking into a "490" option code. Electric antenna? Car was purchased with no radio. Would the dealership take that out if the client didn't want a radio and install a standard antenna? What else should I ask for on the COA when I call her back? Trans #, Engine #, ? And, is there a way to distinguish which alloy wheels came with the car; fuchs or mahle? John (orginal owner), had them swapped out for steelies.
Thanks, Tod
M490 is the electric antenna.
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm
You'll get the engine # on the COA, but probably not the trans. Sometimes you can provide the trans # and if it matches the # on their Kardex, then then they might indicate it on the COA, its happened in the past.
If you are talking to Krinstina Lucas, she has replaced Kristen Richford...she seems equally as nice and very helpful.
If the options indicate 'pressure cast' alloys, that would be the Fuchs. Plain cast wheels would be Mahles for a '74.
Thanks Jeff. Yes, the women's name is Kristina. She seems very pleasant judging by the message she left. Said she was inquiring with Germany about the option code/s. I'll touch base with her tomorrow. Kudos on your site again. Great resource of info you compiled.
COA's are usually Worthless as they are mostly Incorrect & the Girls at PCNA are clueless when it comes to our cars.
I have never Seen a Power Antenna! & if your car didn't come with a Factory Radio (very few did) it didn't come with any antenna - Dealers Installed them.
Jeff, "Pressure Cast" equals Fuchs? They are Forged
Just got off the phone with Kristina. Based on the information she has from their database, enigine number checked out, no record of the trans number but she is going to add it on, correct paint code Ravenna green M5 with brown leatherette, rear defrost, USA equiptment, chrome bumpers, forged wheels code 485, and the 490 code which she is having Germany checking into. No mention of the center console, center seat, of fog lights on the Kardex. Would that of come packaged with the chrome bumpers? Regarding the electric antenna, the car has a non electric Hirshman on it that's been Zeibarted by the dealership prior to delivery. Thanks for the help guys.
Ah ok T.C., that's good to know. She mentioned there was no letter prefix on the 490 option, so we'll see what they come up with. The Ziebart crap was a mess. If I recall right, I think John said that he had them put that on. So I guess the car originally came with Fuchs. He couldn't remember which set was on the car when he purchased it. This COA is worth it to me in that regard. Clairifies the missing pieces to the puzzle.
Very cool Wofgang. Thanks. Jeff's site was showing the antenna as electric. Mechanical would certianly make more sence. So it's safe to say this antenna was installed at the factory and not the dealership?
I can't say if this is an evidence ... but I'd say it's a pretty good sign
if you have a mechanic antenna on the left side and your COA says 490 - I'd say bingo !
Works for me.
Tod, send her pix of both the engine & transaxle case #'s & they may put both on your COA. Also check the other color & equipment codes vs. actual on the car. It took me 3 tries & a call to the Customer Care GM to get them to correct their erroneous interior color to Beige using Jeff's pix of dealer color code docs. Froggy & mine have the same code.
It's beyond me why somebody would by a fully equipped 914-2.0 & opt off the Fuchs 2L wheels for steelies!!??
I can understand if they preferred ta straight-up trade for the Pedrini's or Mahle Baby-Gasburners .... but steelies!!??
.
Dave, that 73 window sticker is for VIN...15228, out of some 27,660 in 73, so I'm guessing it's about Jan-Mar 73 build date.
In deference to TC who worked at dealerships in the `70's IIRC, & to Jeff's unparalleled research - I can't say if they meant Fuchs by the "pressure cast" nomenclature, because we're talking about translation for German to English, and then variances by whomever did the Munroney sticker at the POE - of which there were always wide variations of wording, terms & even errors back in the day (they're much more consistent & accurate today on new cars).
But Yes, they did offer the Fuchs 2L wheels painted with the centers in orange, yellow & ?? as an option for any 914, including 74 LE's. In fact on Jeff's LE website he shows the Japan market LE - all of which were equipped with Fuchs 2L painted in the centers.
There was also a member on here who posted a pic of the day they took delivery of a 914 mounting Fuchs 2L's with the painted centers, & IIRC it was a 74 2.0 non-LE car.
Lastly, I have a set of the orange center Fuchs 2L wheels which I'd bought off a guy with a 75 or 76 which had them on from the factory, which I'd planned on stripping & refinishing by Al Reid for my 2L's resto. But I picked up SoCalAndy's set of already refinished ones by Al Reid, & they're now surplus to me.
So I'll just sell those to somebody who want the Signal Orange & will restore them as such. IIRC I posted pix of them on the O&H wheels & tires thread as an FYI on type.
BTW - one way to tell the factory painted ones, is that they used to proper aluminum yellow-green zinc-chromate primer, the same stuff as used on aluminum aircraft skins & parts, under the the color coat paint.
The ones I have, a DAPPO had painted them over in silver, then the PO/seller cleaned the silver off of 4 of them ...
Tom, you can go to Jeff's Can Am registry page and click on any of the "WS" links. They all say the same thing: "PRESSURE CAST ALLOY WHEELS."
http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/914CanAmRegistry.htm
Steve Gaglione's Sahara Beige 914 is one of the best documented cars out there. We know his car came with Fuchs, and the window sticker reflects this:
I checked the '74 model year window stickers to see if the use of FORGED ALLOY WHEELS was dropped, but here's a '74 with the terminology still in use:
Like I said Dave, I don't know which & didn't want to get between them on forged vs. pressure cast, but did want to answer your question about whether the ever painted the Fuchs in LE style. IIRC you could special order them too in body color match of any color, but not positive on that.
Unfortunately I never got the window sticker & other dealer docs from the original buyer/seller of mine back in 12/75 - not even the center console/gauges, foglights/grills/switch & Fuchs wheels, owners manual & service records were there with the car, and it was only 3 years old when I bought it.
Tod - here's the 1st, 2nd & 3rd latest corrected COAs on mine FYI, in the pix below (#31 was Beige & #11 was Black).
The problem with the "fully loaded" AG+PG optioned early "914S" marketed models, was that PCNA won't list the "included options" on any of these "special equipment/package models" on the COAs. Same for LE's, 911 RS's, etc. - so you're stuck with verifying what was included on them yourself, which is what I had to do in my research on what & how to properly restore my early`73 914-2.0/"914S" - before spending loads of cash to replace the missing items noted above & restore them.
#1 - no 2.0 designation - PCNA demanded pic of engine case # to match to Kardex before adding it!
.
#2 - added 2.0, but PCNA manager refused to correct the interior color to Beige!
.
#3 - corrected interior color, but only after contacting PCNA's GM Customer Service, & no other "included options" added!
.
Friggin' PITA!!
Poor Pat Garvey is still trying to get PCNA to correct what they're supposedly calling "Norwegian Equipment" on his 72 914/4, whatever that is.....??
I know we are getting off track, but
Forging Aluminum has nothing to do with Casting. Casting means that Hot Aluminum is poured into a Cast. Forging is Aluminum that is put into a Die and then Pressed under many Tons of Force into the shape desired
Sorry I double Posted
Often wondered what the process was. Good info.
Porsche just verified the antenna with suppressor kit for the 490 code. Should have the COA in 3 weeks. Thanks for the assistance. I'll post a picture of it when it comes in.
It came in! Very nice job on it. The antenna option was correct. Should the sail vinyl, fog lights and center console be listed under a package, or is that part of the chrome bumpers option? Car does not have sway bars. Also, production end date, is that indicated on the vin sticker? Should the options listed on the COA have the code prefix? I'd like to get as much of the information onto the COA as possible. Thanks for the assistance.
Production Date will be on your Compliance Sticker in the DS Door Jam
No the Options on a CoA do not get Code Numbers
I've never seen Sail Vinyl, Center Console or Fog Lights on a CoA
The Info on your CoA is all you are going to get - just be glad that it is remotely correct
Well, the production MONTH & year on the VIN sticker may or may not be the actual Chassis No. production date.
Another member's Orange 2L was built a week before mine in Aug. 72, but had a 9/72 VIN sticker date, while mine is 8/72.
Decode your chassis no. on the Karmann plate using an online calendar for the year of mfgr (YoM) noted on the VIN sticker as follows:
Chassis No.: WWD95XX (or...96XX)*
WW = week of year (count even one day as week #1)
D = day of work week (1-5 = M-F)
.... & translate week & day w/ YoM to a full production date
95 = Karmann Plant & * 96 = 95 + 100 added to below...
XX = # of 914s completed/stamped that date (higher # is later in day)
* 96 = 100 + XX = 1XX
COA's are notoriously incomplete & incorrect Tod, so lacking a dealer invoice &/or window sticker, it may be impossible to add the sail/rollbar vinyle, foglights & any other unlisted option items to the COA.
However, at some Parades & other events where PCNA brings their troops armed with their digital microfilm/fische files on computer to the events, you may be able to look at the actual Kardex & jot down the option codes & notations (in German) & get them translated then added to your COA that way (should be at no cost to correct a COA). You might even sneak a pic of it when they're not looking, but they're protective of the Kardexes now due to the fact that it includes the key code and origina/following owner info which is a privacy issue.
As for your interior code #21 - it should read Brown Leatherette with Basketweave (inserts), as per this chart I used to get mine corrected from their erroneous "#31 Beige..." - which was their error....
^--- note #21 in bottom left set of English codes, this is from Jeff's website too BTW
You can also pull the option codes off of Jeff Bowlsby's website.
I don't think Froggy was an Appearance Group (AG) 914 - unless it also has the center console, but the chrome bumpers did become a separate option for additional cost over-&-above the AG in the 74 MY so Porsche could ding you 2x for what had been included in the AG for 914/4's in 70-73 MYs.
So the separate chrome bumper option makes sense on Froggy.
FYI - the 74 MY AG would've included Leatherette covered steering wheel & shift boot, loop pile carpet, center console & 3 gauges, foglights/grills & dash switch, dual horns, sail/rollbar vinyl - so if all of that is there, you could look up the code on Jeff's website & take pix of them all on Froggy, then send that into PCNA COA (again!) to ask them to recheck their Kardex & add it to the revised COA.
All I have to say is - it's a good thing that Porsche is not generally as sloppy with the car building, as PCNA is with their crappy COA work, which is usually "neither fast, nor slow - but usually half-fast!" - especially on the older cars without a supplied window sticker!
PS - HEY - cool, they actually have your transaxle number! ...very rare that they have it at all.
PSS - Only the models which included certain or all option groups &/or special options as part of that model's "package" won't include listing those specific options. So a 914-6 70-72 MYs, the 73 early/mid MY 914-2.0/"914S" & 74 LEs won't specifically list their individual options always included with it for the basic price new (911 RS is another non-914 example). I disagree with this approach, because IMHO the manufacturer should be confirming & certifying the inclusion of options on ALL of their models - whether sold at extra cost or included in the upgraded model's base price - for a "Certificate [manufacturer certification] of Authenticity [of all model items and options]".
I'll inquire about the apperance group option, being it has all the goodies that go with it. I asked them to add the transaxle number in, being it's never been out of the car.
Tod, see the attached equipment packages for 1974.
Attached thumbnail(s)
There was no PG in 1974...items not in the AG were individually priced options.
Careful...I am old enough to remember that show, and the Gong show... But just barely.
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