OT Euro Diesels, Amazed by a Ford Focus |
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OT Euro Diesels, Amazed by a Ford Focus |
Nick |
Nov 5 2007, 05:53 AM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 25-June 04 From: Washington DC Member No.: 2,250 |
Just got back from a month long R&R in Italy and France and I must say I was amazed by the quality of our econo box rental car and a little annoyed that the Europeans seem to get much better products from Ford than we do in the small car category. We were driving around in a Ford focus diesel that was so refined that you couldn’t tell it was a diesel at idle or cruise. Very torque fast car with 4 people and there luggage. Handled great on the twisty roads of Tuscany and was rock solid at 160 KPH + that Italians cruise down the highway at. Returned over 50 mpg over the entire trip. For daily driver a nice diesel Ford like this would be great. Shame they are not available in the US it really was eye opening how good diesels have become. Why have the complexity of a hybrid when a simple diesel gets great MPG is fast comfortable etc. Maybe the US will get over its diesel phobia.
Nick |
lotus_65 |
Nov 5 2007, 06:32 AM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,608 Joined: 21-March 05 From: minneapolis, mn Member No.: 3,795 Region Association: Northstar Region |
it's all about oil, brother. the politicians in bed with the oil companies and car companies.
a threesome of megalomaniacs that conspire to keep us enslaved to the juice. we all know about the current administrations' commitment to this, but the telling part is a guy like john edwards, a democrat populist supposed "progressive" and all he can come up with is that "america needs to give up it's s.u.v.'s". it's pathetic. and wrong. |
yenningComity |
Nov 5 2007, 06:39 AM
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#3
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 27-August 07 From: Carmel Indiana Member No.: 8,047 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Eh, I think it is a bit less interesting a reason as that. Europe has a cleaner burning diesel. It costs more to make in the first place and also requires more modern refiners. The reason europe has it, is because their emissions laws have mandated it. That engine may not burn clean enough here for it to be viable. Another reason is that diesels just do not sell. My family has owned 2 vw jetta tdi's, 2 passat tdi's, and even a 330 diesel sport *while in england*. VW stopped making the passat tdi here because it just won't sell. My sister still has a TDI Jetta and Diesel costs more than gas right now. Once you figure in the cost of the extra maintenance they require the savings is moot. Sadly, mechanics charge through the nose to work on the cars with little reason, for example oil changes cost her double what a gas engine would.
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blitZ |
Nov 5 2007, 07:28 AM
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#4
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Beer please... Group: Members Posts: 2,223 Joined: 31-August 05 From: Lawrenceville, GA Member No.: 4,719 Region Association: South East States |
Most of the manufacturers offer diesel options to the rest of the world. Nissan has an optional 2.5l turbo diesel for the Pathfinder, which has more towing power than my gas version. It gets 33mpg. I think I would buy one if it's ever offered here. I'd like to see biodiesel become more available. It's cleaner and should be a cost effective option over dino diesel if produced in a large enough quantity.
One day.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) |
lotus_65 |
Nov 5 2007, 07:28 AM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,608 Joined: 21-March 05 From: minneapolis, mn Member No.: 3,795 Region Association: Northstar Region |
Eh, I think it is a bit less interesting a reason as that. Europe has a cleaner burning diesel. It costs more to make in the first place and also requires more modern refiners. The reason europe has it, is because their emissions laws have mandated it. That engine may not burn clean enough here for it to be viable. Another reason is that diesels just do not sell. My family has owned 2 vw jetta tdi's, 2 passat tdi's, and even a 330 diesel sport *while in england*. VW stopped making the passat tdi here because it just won't sell. My sister still has a TDI Jetta and Diesel costs more than gas right now. Once you figure in the cost of the extra maintenance they require the savings is moot. Sadly, mechanics charge through the nose to work on the cars with little reason, for example oil changes cost her double what a gas engine would. actually, you made my point. thanks. the key is your word "mandated". that is the evil "anti-market-driven-capitalism" ideology that is behind this mess. it will only be after the fact that our leaders will recognize those mistakes. don't get me wrong, i believe in capitalism, but we have gone way too far down a "self-governing" or "market-driven" economic policy. |
buck toenges |
Nov 5 2007, 07:31 AM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 553 Joined: 25-November 03 From: Fort wayne In Member No.: 1,388 Region Association: None |
I disagree about the cost of upkeep for the diesels. We have 4 vw diesels. They get about 45mpg city/hyway. Sure diesel cost more and maybe maintenance costs more but you can get up to 300,000 miles on a car. We bought these cars with about 100,000. miles on them for an average of about $8500.00 apiece. In the long run they will be cheaper to operate then a gas version.
When the big 3 are losing market share to the japs it doesn't make sense to not bring in diesels. What the goverment should do is help with this process, change the epa crap and encourage more diesel production and logistics. If Ford would bring out the tarus with a diesel that gets about 35 -40 mph when gas is going over $3 per gallon they could sell them by the butt load. Look at the price for used diesels vw and 1998-1999 mb E300 diesels. They have increased in resale value over the last 3 years. There is a reason for this. It is called economy. |
brant |
Nov 5 2007, 10:43 AM
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#7
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
QUOTE actually, you made my point. thanks. the key is your word "mandated". that is the evil "anti-market-driven-capitalism" ideology that is behind this mess. it will only be after the fact that our leaders will recognize those mistakes. don't get me wrong, i believe in capitalism, but we have gone way too far down a "self-governing" or "market-driven" economic policy. lotus, I think you are misinterpreting the word mandated in europe the gas tax is significantly less for diesel versus gasoline. so they could be "mandated" in the US too if we would only hike up the gasoline tax by $1.00/gallon (maybe $2) then suddenly people would feel "mandated" to buy the cheaper diesel fuel brant |
Cap'n Krusty |
Nov 5 2007, 12:10 PM
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#8
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
I love my TDi! Wife does, too! Our fuel bills are less than half what they were when she was commuting in the A6. 17 gallons ($65+) of premium every 4 days vs. 13 gallons of diesel every 6 days at about $37. Uses the same synthetic oil as all the other VWs, and the filter costs the same........ I change the oil at 4K instead of 7, so there IS some extra expense. Timing belt intervals are about the same, and the parts costs are, as well. Plenty of acceleration "zip", no bad smell, and very little extra noise, especially with the windows up. We get around 45mpg mixed, with commute speeds of 75+. We pay a premium for TDis in CA, because they haven't sold them here for 4 or 5 years, I think. The Cap'n
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lotus_65 |
Nov 5 2007, 12:21 PM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,608 Joined: 21-March 05 From: minneapolis, mn Member No.: 3,795 Region Association: Northstar Region |
QUOTE I think you are misinterpreting the word mandated admittedly secondary, my thesis is based on the latter definition of the transitive verb: man·date QUOTE TRANSITIVE VERB: man·dat·ed , man·dat·ing , man·dates To assign (a colony or territory) to a specified nation under a mandate. To make mandatory, as by law; decree or require: mandated desegregation of public schools. one can, and should in some cases rely on our leaders to do what is right for the whole, in deference to power. citing the above example, the racist power of the south yielded to desegregation (notwithstanding the ongoing issues). on the whole, the federal government has easily as much ability to use existing and perhaps new funds (taxes or fees) to "mandate" both the oil and auto companies to provide an affordable option to the existing paradaigm. it's currently not allowed due to the auto/oil/legislative tryst previously mentioned. once the public has a true and real alternative, they will consume it. brandt, i'm not disputing the financial implications, i'm just saying it's not happening, and will not until the political environment is corrected to make these options possible here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) the SOCIAL environment is already established! paul |
Bill D |
Nov 5 2007, 01:04 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 1-August 06 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,558 |
The new diesels are coming here. VW will start selling their LEV cars here next year. Honda , Subaru and others to follow. TDI sales were almost 50% for VW in the US so they must be hurting this year.
What do you think about a engine from this guy in the 914? http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3653 What I like about the new Honda engines over the VW ones is they are smaller, lighter and have a timing chain. We still have a TDI but I drive a new Fit now as my non P car. |
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