914R build thread revisited, Latest transformation has commenced Options

[campbellcj]

Some of you may have seen my earlier build thread on the 914club site. In a nutshell I have a 73 2.0 that I converted to a six in 2003. It's now heavily modified and race-prepped, powered by a stout 2.7 twin-plug engine.

The car currently weighs 1988lbs without fuel or driver; my POC minimum class weight with gas and driver is 2209lbs. It's still narrow-bodied and I am running 16x7 Fuchs with 205/45 Hoosiers. As you might guess, the car is significantly grip-limited and traction-limited in the rear especially. It basically tears the tread off R6's within 6 run sessions or so.

Here is its current state:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm6.static.flickr.com-21-1309645382.1.jpg)
914R at Streets of Willow by cjcam, on Flickr

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm6.static.flickr.com-21-1309645383.2.jpg)
914R at Willow Springs by cjcam, on Flickr

I just dropped it off at a local shop, about to dive into:

- Tangerine Racing steel flares, front/rear
- Sheridan 6" f/g rear spoiler
- Rollcage triangulation to suspension pickups
- Possibly other chassis bracing
- GT headlight lifts or remove lights completely
- Repaint car (TBD how extensively)
- RSR finish Fuchs 16x8's up front, 9's in rear
- New graphics/decals


One upcoming decision is whether to keep the sail vinyl or go body color without vinyl. I've always liked the factory vinyl and bright trim look but could go either way on this.

The work could start as soon as Tuesday and I'll post updates and pics as I get them. This is not going to be a CW rotisserie sort of project since it's a race car, so progress should happen quickly and I plan to run the POC Laguna Seca event towards the end of August.

Cheers,

[brant]

very cool Chris

[Mike Bellis]

Remove the vinyl. You will save 8oz of weight. I'll be watching!

[campbellcj]

Remove the vinyl. You will save 8oz of weight. I'll be watching!

LOL, good point, I will be trying to keep the weight down as obviously the bigger wheels/tires will add significant weight, as will any cage tubes or chassis braces added.

Ditching the headlights, motors and turn signal buckets will help a bit. I'm also probably going to swap my one late door (there must be a PO story behind that) for an early door.

There's not much else that can be removed short of drilling or cutting-out metal such as the rear trunk floor or targa hoop, and I don't want to do that right now.

[campbellcj]

So a couple of you have already discovered that my car is at Kundensport in Camarillo for the body/paint work. I will be posting pics as available.

Here are the wheels I've been hanging onto until I had flares to stuff them under. I will be putting Hoosier R6's on them.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm5.static.flickr.com-21-1310184522.1.jpg)
16x8 and 16x9 Fuchs, RSR finish by cjcam, on Flickr

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm6.static.flickr.com-21-1310184522.2.jpg)
16x8 & 9 Remotec alloys (German) by cjcam, on Flickr

[URY914]

You could just paint the sail panels like I did on mine. I added a 1/4" chrome tape to act as the trim. From 10' you can't tell it's paint.

[tscrihfield]

I remember when I was first building I ran into your flikr account photos and was in love with your ride! But I must ask why steel flares on a race car? Have you seen the full FG quarters & fenders that QRS fiberglass has? They are already flared and with chassis stiffening it would be worth it for weight reduction. I think you would lose something like 130-150#s... None the less I anticipate your renovations you have a very nice car!

[mepstein]

I remember when I was first building I ran into your flikr account photos and was in love with your ride! But I must ask why steel flares on a race car? Have you seen the full FG quarters & fenders that QRS fiberglass has? They are already flared and with chassis stiffening it would be worth it for weight reduction. I think you would lose something like 130-150#s... None the less I anticipate your renovations you have a very nice car!

4 steel GT flares weigh around 20-25#S so 130-150# savings, even from the whole panel, is probably really optimistic.

Plus, you are removing metal when you add flares so the total weight gain is less than the flares weigh. It's the bigger wheels and tires that add some weight.

[J P Stein]

The Fuch are light.....a bathroom scale will show that the 8 X 15 inchers are around 12 lbs ea. Those other things look heavy. In my experience to get a 16 incher that approaches those weights you need to go to a 3 piece wheel with a spun rim. My 10 X 16s weighed 11 lbs each but they are delicate....as tire mounters have found out.

Tis a slippery slope you are contemplating. Personally I go with 15 inch wheels, 8 inch in front & 10 inch in back. 225 X 45 & 275 X 35 tires they would keep the ride height down. The standard flares in back won't accommodate those rears but you have the HP to over power even those. OK, so I set up cars to suit available tires.....I've been on that slope.

[campbellcj]

With the Tangerine Racing flares, you are not adding or removing metal so there should be no drastic effect on weight. I went this route because I like the 'stealth' factory-like appearance of them, since they are reworked original steel vs. something obviously tacked-on. With this car I decided I did not want to cut-off the majority of the body and do something like a Sheridan kit or other total body replacement; although, I did think seriously about that.

[campbellcj]

JP - those Remotec wheels are nearly identical in weight to the same-sized Fuchs, believe it or not! I can no longer use smaller than 16" wheels due to the suspension mods (strut spindles) up front; also the DOT tire choices are rapidly dwindling in 15" and are still a little better in 16".

[J P Stein]

OK, I thought you were talking race tires but your right, the available DOT tire selection sucks. I run 19mm raised spindles with just a few mods to clear the inside of the wheel....tis a near thing. Bigger wheels & tires are heavier (& taller) than the 15s. I guess it is whatever floats your boat.

[tscrihfield]

Understood! I am a firm believer in you like what you like. Also, had no idea you were just working the original fenders... I am in even more anticipation to see it now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) And I know what you mean about the wheel size, I can't go below 17inches because how far I lowered my spindles!

With the Tangerine Racing flares, you are not adding or removing metal so there should be no drastic effect on weight. I went this route because I like the 'stealth' factory-like appearance of them, since they are reworked original steel vs. something obviously tacked-on. With this car I decided I did not want to cut-off the majority of the body and do something like a Sheridan kit or other total body replacement; although, I did think seriously about that.

[J P Stein]

In my race car building days I was obsessed with several things among which were low over all weight, low unsprung weight, & low CG of the whole car.
I jumped through a lot of hoops to get there without screwing up the the camber, toe curves....& bumpsteer, of course from the stock settings......I ain't smart enough to re-engineer the suspension to a better point than Porsche did. Due to some professional help with shock valving (& shitcanning the rubber bushings) & some fairly radical stiffening of the chassis (lots of room for improvement there) I feel I was reasonably successful. Any advice I offer is based on those obsessions plus the absolute need to have fairly compliant suspension to handle the bumps of several AX venues.

Reading your post, Chris, would lead me to believe your car is no longer going to be street legal (no headlights?). Your need for DOT legal rubber confuses me. Are you running some kinda spec series rubber that calls for some oddball wear rating? Hoosier makes DOT legal R&A6s and the available rubber is as good (better IMO) in 15 inch as 16 inch.

BTW, tscrihfield, *lowering* ones spindles is counter productive and would not effect wheel size. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Terminology counts.

[campbellcj]

JP, you are correct, classification rules are the only reason I use DOT tires. Race tires would bump me another class with POC. It's a points-based system but I'm already topped-out in my current class once I add the wider wheels. I would love to try slicks sometime though.

Also, I have to run a minimum car weight and am already right on the line there.

FWIW many if not most of the competitive 911 guys down here have gone to 17's. I'm pretty sure that is for wheel selection as well as tires.

[J P Stein]

A & R6s are race rubber I was talking about....not slicks. Are these
https://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm legal? Click on "specs".

[campbellcj]

Yes, I've been using the R6 and predecessors for years. I can use any DOT tire...non-DOT slicks are where I can't tread for now (sorry).

Still can't go down to 15's without raising the spindles back up...

[tscrihfield]

BTW, tscrihfield, *lowering* ones spindles is counter productive and would not effect wheel size. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Terminology counts.

I guess the proper way to say it is "raising" the spindles to drop the car... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) You got me on that one! I was a little tired when I posted last night...

But I honestly can't because I tried to install my 16" wheels and they hit the lower control arm due to spindle location. My 17" wheels have room but the 16s are a little too small...

[tscrihfield]

Yes, I've been using the R6 and predecessors for years. I can use any DOT tire...non-DOT slicks are where I can't tread for now (sorry).

Still can't go down to 15's without raising the spindles back up...

Better watch how you state it JP will get ya! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

I know you mean lower your spindles to original location....

[J P Stein]

Chris & I go way back so know what he means to say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
BTW, Chris, is Sienfeld's collection still across the street?