Marcus' Corvair conversion, 914-C6 Options

[andys]

At El Mirage, we ran the 4bbl Holley, 140 heads, with some success. Got to within 4 MPH of the record. If you were to run it on the street, then oil heating the intake would be necessary. That was about 1970.

Andys

[r3dplanet]

Very cool! I always like the idea of a single four barrel carb. But as you say intake temps are a real problem - the same reason why it doesn't work with a Type-4 or Type-1 engine. Beetles had the heat risers to solve that problem.

Plus it just looks cool.

At El Mirage, we ran the 4bbl Holley, 140 heads, with some success. Got to within 4 MPH of the record. If you were to run it on the street, then oil heating the intake would be necessary. That was about 1970.

Andys

[DaveO90s4]

Must be some way to add a heat riser a la early vw?

Speaking if carbs: for a Corvair /. 914 installation I think it highly desirable that the carbs do not extend outboard beyond the rocker covets. The rocker covers clear the chassis when installing the engine by about 1/4 to 1/2 an inch each side. If the carbs extend beyond that then the engine can't be installed or removed with carbs on. It is very difficult to install my carbs with the engine in. And the 12 nuts in total are hard to get at with the engine in. One nut took me two hrs to get on.

Just a thought...

Daveo90s4

[andys]

Very cool! I always like the idea of a single four barrel carb. But as you say intake temps are a real problem - the same reason why it doesn't work with a Type-4 or Type-1 engine. Beetles had the heat risers to solve that problem.

Plus it just looks cool.

At El Mirage, we ran the 4bbl Holley, 140 heads, with some success. Got to within 4 MPH of the record. If you were to run it on the street, then oil heating the intake would be necessary. That was about 1970.

Andys

After second thought, a type 1 heat riser would be a very simple solution; not at all hard to implement. The advantage is simplified tuning of a single carb. FWIW.

Andys

[r3dplanet]

Hey gang.

I don't think the oil pan is coming back any time soon. So I finally broke down and bought a third oil pan. This time it's the Clark's brand. Like the Otto it's also made from cast alumin(i)um. Thankfully this is one is dead nuts flat so it doesn't need any modifications. So I suggest that if you ever build your own Corvair engine just cough up the $300 for the Clark's plan. Maybe one day my other Otto oil pan will return. If it does I'll pass it on to another adventurer.

The boasting points for the Clark's pan are:

* tall internal baffles to reduce slop and increase thermal absorption (that's a fun word)
* actual flat mating surface
* two rear-facing pipe threaded holes -> one for the drain bolt to get really good drainage, and another for an oil temp sensor. That's a nice touch.

The main caveat is that the finish isn't nearly as good as the Otto, but I don't care any more. The cost smarts though.

In the next few days I'll have a friend come over and help me flip the engine so I can install the pan. Once installed, it's a straight path to completion. Finally.

[Porschef]

Nice, Marcus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Glad you're getting near the finish line with your engine.

One day while driving up to my sister's in Shelburne Falls, I took a different road and drove right past Clark's. Kinda wished I had stopped in, but at the time never thought about a Corvair engine as a potential power plant. Now, I do.

And yes, slop is a fun word... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[r3dplanet]

I was actually thinking about "absorption" ..abZORBb... But "slop" has great onomatopoeia.

Anyway, yes. I'm eager to finish off this engine and start it up. The sooner the better.

-m.

Nice, Marcus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Glad you're getting near the finish line with your engine.

One day while driving up to my sister's in Shelburne Falls, I took a different road and drove right past Clark's. Kinda wished I had stopped in, but at the time never thought about a Corvair engine as a potential power plant. Now, I do.

And yes, slop is a fun word... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DaveO90s4]

Hi Marcus. Good progress.

One of the selling points on my Otto (?) oil pan is that the external fins are angled to disperse heat away from the centre. Great. And then I put the engine in backwards into my 914 and defeat that. I hope it was just marketing hype. No such issue with you new pan. And my drain hole is not at the bottom. Must send you photos of my auxiliary oil coolers. Cheers. Dave

[Tdskip]

But "slop" has great onomatopoeia.

Subscribing, I mean besides this being a cool build you used onomatopoeia on a car forum so I kind of have to subscribe.

[Dr Evil]

I run an Edelbrock 4bbl currently on the 3.1 with a plenum with 6 runners. I had a set up for 140 heads, 4 runners, and oil heat using a Holley. Hated that Holley. My carbs are still not perfectly tuned, idle is all crap, but once it is going it is going. If I was keeping the vair power plant I was planning on weber 3bbl, but the plans have changed and i have jumped ship to join the Suby SVX camp for 240hp, heat, A/C, fuel injection. I still have a CIS setup that I modified to work on my vair (with the 3 port heads). Its in a box, maybe mess with it some day, needed tuning and leak checks. Im not even sure if I will keep the vair engine and tranz at this point.

I used the Otto oil pain and a deep pain on the power glide as well. I also ducted my exhaust forward to exit ahead of the buses rear wheels to help relieve some of the heat soak under and around the engine. The 914 naturally does this so the heat dissipation may be superior to stock corvair mounting and exhaust. I dont think you are gonna have heat issues, though. You have done so much to improve this over stock.

[sixnotfour]

sucks about the oil pan the OG Otto stuff was nice..

[r3dplanet]

Dave, I agree. For reasons that aren't clear to me I still prefer the Otto. Maybe because it matches the valve covers, or maybe because of the fit and finish. It's a clever design for sure. Who knows... if oil pan #2 ever returns I might install it. Answer is unclear at this time.

Hi Marcus. Good progress.

One of the selling points on my Otto (?) oil pan is that the external fins are angled to disperse heat away from the centre. Great. And then I put the engine in backwards into my 914 and defeat that. I hope it was just marketing hype. No such issue with you new pan. And my drain hole is not at the bottom. Must send you photos of my auxiliary oil coolers. Cheers. Dave

[r3dplanet]

Hello, fellow wordsperson. If you're into fun words I urge you to have fun with my favorite word in the English language, "sesquipedalian." It's as giggleworthy as it is autological.

But "slop" has great onomatopoeia.

Subscribing, I mean besides this being a cool build you used onomatopoeia on a car forum so I kind of have to subscribe.

[r3dplanet]

Which Edlebrock do you have? The 500? That still seems huge for 3.1 liters. I've had several of the Eddy 4-barrels and I generally really love them. In fact I think I have an extra 500 kicking around.

I'm still totes jelly of your Bus. Subaru power is obviously going to be better given than you're swapping '50s engine tech with '90s engine tech. I would have loved to see your Corvair engine come to fruition which is why you need to go get another Bus! Having two simultaneous car projects is always a great idea. ALWAYS

Speaking of .. my Barracuda is finally really to sell. I'll start crafting my ad for it.

I run an Edelbrock 4bbl currently on the 3.1 with a plenum with 6 runners. I had a set up for 140 heads, 4 runners, and oil heat using a Holley. Hated that Holley. My carbs are still not perfectly tuned, idle is all crap, but once it is going it is going. If I was keeping the vair power plant I was planning on weber 3bbl, but the plans have changed and i have jumped ship to join the Suby SVX camp for 240hp, heat, A/C, fuel injection. I still have a CIS setup that I modified to work on my vair (with the 3 port heads). Its in a box, maybe mess with it some day, needed tuning and leak checks. Im not even sure if I will keep the vair engine and tranz at this point.

I used the Otto oil pain and a deep pain on the power glide as well. I also ducted my exhaust forward to exit ahead of the buses rear wheels to help relieve some of the heat soak under and around the engine. The 914 naturally does this so the heat dissipation may be superior to stock corvair mounting and exhaust. I dont think you are gonna have heat issues, though. You have done so much to improve this over stock.

[gandalf_025]

One day while driving up to my sister's in Shelburne Falls, I took a different road and drove right past Clark's. Kinda wished I had stopped in, but at the time never thought about a Corvair engine as a potential power plant. Now, I do.

And yes, slop is a fun word... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Years ago I used to drive to Calvin Clark’s house to buy parts.
Once they moved to their current location, they frowned on walk
ins because the site wasn’t zoned for retail....
Mail Order only...

[sixnotfour]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[r3dplanet]

Very cool! It's a far cry from the never ending pile of SUMMIT RACING stickers.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Dr Evil]

Which Edlebrock do you have? The 500? That still seems huge for 3.1 liters. I've had several of the Eddy 4-barrels and I generally really love them. In fact I think I have an extra 500 kicking around.

I'm still totes jelly of your Bus. Subaru power is obviously going to be better given than you're swapping '50s engine tech with '90s engine tech. I would have loved to see your Corvair engine come to fruition which is why you need to go get another Bus! Having two simultaneous car projects is always a great idea. ALWAYS

Speaking of .. my Barracuda is finally really to sell. I'll start crafting my ad for it.

I run an Edelbrock 4bbl currently on the 3.1 with a plenum with 6 runners. I had a set up for 140 heads, 4 runners, and oil heat using a Holley. Hated that Holley. My carbs are still not perfectly tuned, idle is all crap, but once it is going it is going. If I was keeping the vair power plant I was planning on weber 3bbl, but the plans have changed and i have jumped ship to join the Suby SVX camp for 240hp, heat, A/C, fuel injection. I still have a CIS setup that I modified to work on my vair (with the 3 port heads). Its in a box, maybe mess with it some day, needed tuning and leak checks. Im not even sure if I will keep the vair engine and tranz at this point.

I used the Otto oil pain and a deep pain on the power glide as well. I also ducted my exhaust forward to exit ahead of the buses rear wheels to help relieve some of the heat soak under and around the engine. The 914 naturally does this so the heat dissipation may be superior to stock corvair mounting and exhaust. I dont think you are gonna have heat issues, though. You have done so much to improve this over stock.

If Eddy has a 360, that is the one I have. If not, then its slightly bigger. Im going off of memory. It was nice to install, quick adjust, go. Jetting changes dont take a whole lot of work like the Holley. I may get another bus someday....but I have lost real estate and have no space in my new suburban palace.

[r3dplanet]

Hmm. Shoot a pic of it? The smallest Eddy is 500cfm. Now I'm curious.

-m.

Which Edlebrock do you have? The 500? That still seems huge for 3.1 liters. I've had several of the Eddy 4-barrels and I generally really love them. In fact I think I have an extra 500 kicking around.

If Eddy has a 360, that is the one I have. If not, then its slightly bigger. Im going off of memory. It was nice to install, quick adjust, go. Jetting changes dont take a whole lot of work like the Holley. I may get another bus someday....but I have lost real estate and have no space in my new suburban palace.

[r3dplanet]

Okay. Finally the simple task of installing the oil pan is finished. My friend Ben dropped by and we tilted the engine onto another work table. The table is unhappy about the load.

Any oil pan for the Corvair is not ideal In order to gain ground clearance, the pan is really more of a lid. Most of the oil sits above the gasket line so it can leak just sitting there. That is, it could leak out most the oil in total if given the chance. That's why I'm extra particular about the mating surfaces and sealing. I'm trying to avoid a hypothetical situation where it leaks a parking lot, then someone will point and laugh at me because of the Corvair engine. Then I'd pee my pants to complete the spectacle.



Dry fitting the pan showed another problem. One of the baffles inside the pan butted against one the casting ribs on the bottom of the engine case. It could be a universal application fit, I'm not sure. Anyway a little quick work with the grinder and a file and I removed a little square. It only wanted a 1/4" removed, but the grinder fit easier this way.



And here's the Otto oil pickup. It's a decent improvement over stock and it fits this oil pan perfectly. I've mentioned it before but here it is again anyway.



Installed:



Now it's finally time to clean the surfaces and install the pan. As per usual I cleaned both mating surfaces with white coffee filters. First with mineral spirits, and then with alcohol. The gasket I'm using is a thin felt-rubber gasket. I'm not sure if this is the best choice but if it doesn't work I have other, thicker gaskets.



I doubt I really needed to use any gasket dressing given that the surfaces are flat, but they're not perfectly flat. So I used a bit of Gasgacinch, let it dry, and slapped it onto the pan. Then it's right back onto the engine.



After letting it sit overnight I realized that I forgot to apply anti-seize. So I popped each off one at a time and torqued them to 70 INCH pounds in a criss-cross pattern. The manual says 100 inch pounds, but that's a mistake. The actual value is 60-84.

Anyway, done. Next up are the lifters, pushrods, rockers.

Blam!