valvolene VR1 oil warning, I've been looking to change oil in the daily driver |
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valvolene VR1 oil warning, I've been looking to change oil in the daily driver |
brant |
Feb 19 2013, 10:55 AM
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#1
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I've been doing a little research for a daily driver toyota....
thinking about changing oil brands and seeing what is out there for a flat tappet cam that is cheaper than Royal purple, and more available than brad penn anyways... lots and lots of guys post about using VR1 lately I found some valvolene materials that may be a typo someone independently tested the 2 valvolene racing oils, and the street legal version (found at the flaps) the tests show 800ppm zddp on the street legal oil and 1300ppm on the two not street legal oils. yet the valolene litterature claims 1300ppm on all of their grey bottled oils. I would like to tell everyone to check the API starburst on the bottle if your flaps, VR-1 is SM rated or street legal I am of the belief that you are NOT getting the zddp you need for our engines... |
JamesM |
Feb 19 2013, 12:56 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 6-April 06 From: Kearns, UT Member No.: 5,834 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
Thanks for the info. Any idea what the rating on the label is on the 1300ppm ones?
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brant |
Feb 19 2013, 02:49 PM
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#3
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
"off road use only"
I don't believe they would have API certification but I'm told they are usually only available special order, so I haven't been able to find an actual bottle of the off road racing ones to look at the label of. what is tough is that all of the oils still contain some zddp its just that in order to meet API certification, the zddp levels are so low that they don't protect our engines (or any flat tappet engines) so the marketing side of things still allows the label to say they have zinc... it just doesn't spell out how much |
injunmort |
Feb 19 2013, 02:56 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,024 Joined: 12-April 10 From: sugarloaf ny Member No.: 11,604 Region Association: North East States |
I didn't know there was a difference in vr1 but I have been using vr1 50wt and 30wt in all my aircooled motorcyles and 914 for the last 15 years and have no issues including my 48 indian which I ride a lot and pretty good distnaces. fwiw
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anderssj |
Feb 19 2013, 03:15 PM
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#5
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Dog is my copilot... Group: Members Posts: 1,689 Joined: 28-January 03 From: VA Member No.: 207 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Here's what Valvoline has posted on their site:
http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/ It's not entirely clear to me, but I think they're talking about the Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil and the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil. The date at the bottom of the page appears to be 3 JAN 13, so it appears to be pretty current. I would probably be more confident about what they're saying if they hadn't started out with: "Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of zinc in SM motor oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new motor oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible. This has resulted in the widely accepted belief that modern motor oil is not adequate to protect older engines." Used VR-1 back in the day, before that I used Rotella (up until CL-4 or so). Fortunately, just found Brad-Penn locally . . . . Hope this helps. Steve A- |
brant |
Feb 19 2013, 03:30 PM
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#6
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
there website looks positive
the scary thing that I found was someone had run independent tests of the VR1 and their test showed low zddp numbers, even though valvolene advertised differently.... I know one test doesn't prove everything I know the manufacture is claiming higher numbers perhaps it was a bad batch, or improper test? I don't trust them at this point and will just not use VR1 street legal oil again if it has an API SM rating I wouldn't trust it. injunmort, do you have a bottle in your garage of what you use? I'm curious what the API starburst might be on it? |
carr914 |
Feb 19 2013, 03:37 PM
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#7
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Racer from Birth Group: Members Posts: 121,083 Joined: 2-February 04 From: Tampa,FL Member No.: 1,623 Region Association: South East States |
The Kendall GT1 High Performance with Zinc that I use, has an API-SN Rating
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injunmort |
Feb 19 2013, 04:00 PM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,024 Joined: 12-April 10 From: sugarloaf ny Member No.: 11,604 Region Association: North East States |
I do and will come back with it.
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injunmort |
Feb 19 2013, 04:13 PM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,024 Joined: 12-April 10 From: sugarloaf ny Member No.: 11,604 Region Association: North East States |
api service sm, 50 wt I run in 914 in product description on bottle says ashless anti wear and zdcp provide ultimate wear protection
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dlkawashima |
Feb 19 2013, 04:14 PM
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#10
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 9,749 Joined: 1-October 10 From: San Jose Member No.: 12,234 Region Association: Northern California |
there website looks positive the scary thing that I found was someone had run independent tests of the VR1 and their test showed low zddp numbers, even though valvolene advertised differently.... I know one test doesn't prove everything I know the manufacture is claiming higher numbers perhaps it was a bad batch, or improper test? I don't trust them at this point and will just not use VR1 street legal oil Do you have a link to this test that has you scared? EDIT Here is a test (obviously not the one that has you concerned) that gives VR-1 conventional motor oil a high rating. Maybe it'll calm your fears: dead link new link https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20...r-test-ranking/ |
injunmort |
Feb 19 2013, 04:26 PM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,024 Joined: 12-April 10 From: sugarloaf ny Member No.: 11,604 Region Association: North East States |
according to test cited above, vr1 performed better than brad penn. I just know from experience that vr1 is a good product that works well in my air cooled applications. reasonable priced, available at local carquest and does what its supposed.to. I have never used brad penn because it is not cheap, not available close by and with the frequency that I change my oil certainly not economical. fwiw.
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914_teener |
Feb 19 2013, 04:26 PM
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#12
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,245 Joined: 31-August 08 From: So. Cal Member No.: 9,489 Region Association: Southern California |
there website looks positive the scary thing that I found was someone had run independent tests of the VR1 and their test showed low zddp numbers, even though valvolene advertised differently.... I know one test doesn't prove everything I know the manufacture is claiming higher numbers perhaps it was a bad batch, or improper test? I don't trust them at this point and will just not use VR1 street legal oil Do you have a link to this test that has you scared? Here is a test (obviously not the one that has you concerned) that gives VR-1 conventional motor oil a high rating ..... number 7 on the list. Maybe it'll calm your fears: http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30483 I thought the new SN rating in 2011 is the bad one. The zinc content changed for emission purposes for the cats? It still has zinc but lower quantities.... at least that is what I thought. Maybe someone should clarify |
brant |
Feb 19 2013, 04:28 PM
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#13
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
there website looks positive the scary thing that I found was someone had run independent tests of the VR1 and their test showed low zddp numbers, even though valvolene advertised differently.... I know one test doesn't prove everything I know the manufacture is claiming higher numbers perhaps it was a bad batch, or improper test? I don't trust them at this point and will just not use VR1 street legal oil Do you have a link to this test that has you scared? Here is a test (obviously not the one that has you concerned) that gives VR-1 conventional motor oil a high rating ..... number 7 on the list. Maybe it'll calm your fears: http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30483 I didn't save the link I was searching on corvette forum I'm still scared off from the SM coded oils. they passed those API guidelines and tests by having catalylitic pollutants pulled out. I feel more comfortable with the Not street legal version maybe I just need to buy more brad penn for my toyota brant |
rudedude |
Feb 19 2013, 04:36 PM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 516 Joined: 1-January 05 From: minneapolis, mn Member No.: 3,387 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
That last is interesting reading.
I have a roughly 10,000 mile motor where 3 of the lifters are breaking down using only Brad Penn 20w50 changed every 2000 miles. I don't know if its cam or bad lifters but came from a reputable source. |
dlkawashima |
Feb 19 2013, 06:07 PM
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#15
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 9,749 Joined: 1-October 10 From: San Jose Member No.: 12,234 Region Association: Northern California |
I didn't save the link I was searching on corvette forum If you're talking about this thread from 2007, it was clearly just 540RAT speculating. At that point in time he hadn't done any formal tests. He saw some numbers from other Valvoline street oils and simply came to the conclusion that VR-1 had to be in this same ZDDP range and not what the manufacturer claimed. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-pe...ght-it-was.html |
bandjoey |
Feb 19 2013, 07:01 PM
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#16
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bandjoey Group: Members Posts: 4,930 Joined: 26-September 07 From: Bedford Tx Member No.: 8,156 Region Association: Southwest Region |
To further confuse the issue:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ I stopped in to the FLAPS today and looked at the VR1 bottle that I've used for a couple of years, and there's no mention of ZDDP on the bottle. So..where do you buy VR1 Race Oil and is it worth the extra cash I'm sure it costs? Also,,,with search you'll find multiple threads on oil analysis by World members. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
somd914 |
Feb 19 2013, 08:19 PM
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,171 Joined: 21-February 11 From: Southern Maryland Member No.: 12,741 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
This is what I buy at my local FLAPS.
Note is says High Zinc (no specific amount advertised) and not for extended use with cats. No API label but does say it exceeds API SG/CD. |
brant |
Feb 19 2013, 09:11 PM
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#18
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I read that one from 2007 also
but I found a more recent thread. I like that the pictured valvolene from somd914 has no API starburst on it. is it a recently purchased bottle? odd that injunmorts bottles have the API starburst rating and yours don't makes me feel more comfortable that it doesn't have sm certification it looks like the same guy may have been the author of both the speedtalk post and the corvette post... at least they use the same web name if not the same person. |
somd914 |
Feb 19 2013, 09:27 PM
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,171 Joined: 21-February 11 From: Southern Maryland Member No.: 12,741 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
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euro911 |
Feb 20 2013, 01:14 AM
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#20
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Retired & living the dream. God help me if I wake up! Group: Members Posts: 8,855 Joined: 2-December 06 From: So.Cal. & No.AZ (USA) Member No.: 7,300 Region Association: Southern California |
$5 ~ $6 per qt. was about what I paid the last time I bought a case Brad Penn 20/50, but I don't remember what the price for a barrel of crude was going for at the time. It may be more today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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