Sudden death, Engine quit without warning or symptoms |
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Sudden death, Engine quit without warning or symptoms |
srreality |
May 8 2017, 10:55 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 14-July 15 From: Colorado Member No.: 18,957 Region Association: None |
On Saturday, during a splendid drive through the Colorado foothills, my newly finished '73 914 1.7 liter quit without any warning. No coughing, no sputtering, no lurching.....just quit at about 60mph. Not a hot day, no warnings. On the roadside I found no loose wires, no melted wires, no outward signs of distress. My fuel pump is located up front, so doubt it was vapor lock. After dragging it home, the next morning I tried to start it........and voila, it started up perfectly and ran like a charm. My local pro looked at it this morning (Monday) and after testing things thoroughly, found nothing amiss. He did say that once in great while, the electronic ignition inside the distributor cap goes bonkers, perhaps from heat and the car would die like that, then start later. Those parts are new (Pertronix),. Anyone else had this experience? Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks! |
Spoke |
May 9 2017, 04:55 AM
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#2
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 7,052 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
About Pertronix, I've heard about folks having issues with it. I've had 3 different engines with 3 different Pertronix modules for years and not a single hiccup.
An issue like yours is difficult to debug especially the next day if nothing looks amiss. With such a stoppage, first determine if it's electrical or fuel related. Spraying starting fluid in the intake can help point to electrical or fuel. If it fires then it's fuel or intake system. Is this FI or carbs? |
srreality |
May 9 2017, 06:59 AM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 14-July 15 From: Colorado Member No.: 18,957 Region Association: None |
About Pertronix, I've heard about folks having issues with it. I've had 3 different engines with 3 different Pertronix modules for years and not a single hiccup. An issue like yours is difficult to debug especially the next day if nothing looks amiss. With such a stoppage, first determine if it's electrical or fuel related. Spraying starting fluid in the intake can help point to electrical or fuel. If it fires then it's fuel or intake system. Is this FI or carbs? It's thoroughly rebuilt FI. The mechanic said he had this same thing happen to him once in the 30 years he's been working on these cars and he's heard of it so rarely as to be negligible.....but hard to debug now, as it starts up and runs fine. I've only put a few miles on it since the rebuild, so I'll just have to drive it some more and see if it happens again. I'll carry some starting fluid with me and a few more tools in the future. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
eyesright |
May 9 2017, 07:29 AM
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 8-January 12 From: OK Member No.: 13,979 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Same thing here. Mine happened 2 weeks ago and I haven't been able to work on a solution and won't be able to for another 2 weeks. 40K miles on a rebuild with Pertronix.
That's two of us so there is another out there. I hope this isn't the Kim-Jung-whatzizname testing out his EMP interfering with our 50 year old Bosche computers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) |
TheCabinetmaker |
May 9 2017, 08:20 AM
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#5
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,309 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
Same thing here. Mine happened 2 weeks ago and I haven't been able to work on a solution and won't be able to for another 2 weeks. 40K miles on a rebuild with Pertronix. That's two of us so there is another out there. I hope this isn't the Kim-Jung-whatzizname testing out his EMP interfering with our 50 year old Bosche computers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Have you tried reinstalling the points? |
Amphicar770 |
May 9 2017, 09:00 AM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,205 Joined: 20-April 10 From: PA, USA Member No.: 11,639 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
My 2.0 dies on my a week ago. Died on the road, trailered her home, she started right up the next morning. Turned out the wire to the CHT had come disconnected (not sure if that part is on the 1.7). Did not notice the loose wire along the road but found it when I got home.
I have run pertronix in a half dozen cars over the years and never had a problem. When they do go bad they are usually fried, not the intermittent issue you describe. I would start with things like disconnected / loose wire at coil, etc. Try replacing distributor cap and rotor if you still have old one. If you used crimp connectors anywhere, give a pull on the wire. You can always try putting the points back in but I would thoroughly check over wiring, fuses, etc. first. On my Amphicar I once had a cracked battery cable connector and would have intermittent sudden loss of power, took a while to figure that one out. |
boxsterfan |
May 9 2017, 10:14 AM
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#7
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
My fuel pump went intermittent when this happened to me. Eventually the fuel pump died.
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AZBanks |
May 9 2017, 11:12 AM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,063 Joined: 7-December 05 From: New River, AZ Member No.: 5,245 Region Association: Southwest Region |
marbles in your gas tank?
(A really mean prank from my high school days) |
VaccaRabite |
May 9 2017, 11:33 AM
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#9
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,553 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
If it just dies without warning, I'd certainly be looking at electrical / ignition issues.
Fuel starvation would cause bogging, bucking, slower death, etc. Mechanical issues would make very bad noises. If you have fuel injection, there aren't many things that could fail that would cause the engine to just stop. There are wires that if they ground out will kill ignition. Tach wire is one of them (purple IIRC). Over heating the electronics in the Pertronics could cause what you are describing. Improper (low) voltage going into the coil/dizzy might cause it - do you have a volt meter in the car? But I bet you have a wire with an intermittent ground, or a bad connection from the coil to the dizzy, or something like that. Zach |
srreality |
May 10 2017, 08:25 AM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 14-July 15 From: Colorado Member No.: 18,957 Region Association: None |
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. No loose wires, can't find any loose grounds, no shorts, etc. New distributor, coil, plugs, wires, etc. It was a cool day, sunny and 70, all the engine tin is in place and in good order, so can't imagine heat caused it, but I'm new to 914s, so have no baseline. I'll just have to take it out on another sunny day and drive around close to home for about a hour and see what happens. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
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bowzer |
May 10 2017, 08:36 AM
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#11
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 15-April 15 From: olympia wa Member No.: 18,636 Region Association: None |
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. No loose wires, can't find any loose grounds, no shorts, etc. New distributor, coil, plugs, wires, etc. It was a cool day, sunny and 70, all the engine tin is in place and in good order, so can't imagine heat caused it, but I'm new to 914s, so have no baseline. I'll just have to take it out on another sunny day and drive around close to home for about a hour and see what happens. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) i assume you have checked the connections on the relay board.flip it over and see if it is melted.been there done that. |
rhodyguy |
May 10 2017, 10:31 AM
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#12
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,188 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Does your car still start? When it died on the drive did the starter still function? When was the last fuel filter change and outlet strainer/screen in the bottom of the fuel tank inspected?
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iankarr |
May 10 2017, 11:44 AM
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#13
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,512 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
Could be an overheated coil. Or one that's about to die.
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porschetub |
May 10 2017, 02:05 PM
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#14
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,725 Joined: 25-July 15 From: New Zealand Member No.: 18,995 Region Association: None |
Could be an overheated coil. Or one that's about to die. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) ,the amount of time they take to break down can be hit and miss,have heard issues with the latest Bosch blue coils appears they don't last long but never bought one. I do remember the Pertronix is coil specific but I think that only applies to the Igniter II system,something like 0.6 ohm resistance from memory and the instructions state no solid core leads to be used. Never had a failure with Pertronix myself or heard they fail due to heat issues,pretty simple system really. |
toadman |
May 10 2017, 07:23 PM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 26-December 05 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 5,316 |
My fuel pump went intermittent when this happened to me. Eventually the fuel pump died. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) This happened to me too. I have also had my fuel injection brain fail intermittently. Replacement with a known good unit fixed this problem. |
iankarr |
May 11 2017, 06:03 AM
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#16
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,512 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
Could be an overheated coil. Or one that's about to die. Run the car for about a half hour and feel the coil. If it's too hot to touch for more than a few seconds, there's a good chance that's at least contributing to the problem. You might try getting the 3 ohm flame thrower coil to match your pertronix. Inexpensive and at least you'll eliminate that issue from the equation. In my experience, sudden shut off is usually electrical-related. Good luck! |
brant |
May 11 2017, 08:54 AM
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#17
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
After the weekend is passed, I'm definitely around to help
I'm kinda far away, but have lots of spare parts if its any help brant |
worn |
May 11 2017, 10:20 AM
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#18
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can't remember Group: Members Posts: 3,290 Joined: 3-June 11 From: Madison, WI Member No.: 13,152 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
marbles in your gas tank? (A really mean prank from my high school days) Would only keep the tank shiny on our cars. I had an intermittent problem with my 911Sc and it was a connection to the fuel pump relay. Just suddenly died outright. I suppose the fuel pressure accumulator, which we don't have on the teener was able to keep things going until sudden fuel starvation. Intermittent problems are by far the very worst kind. |
worn |
May 11 2017, 10:23 AM
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#19
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can't remember Group: Members Posts: 3,290 Joined: 3-June 11 From: Madison, WI Member No.: 13,152 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I should add that I killed a pertronix unit by reverse polarity hookup. But it was solid dead.
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TheCabinetmaker |
May 11 2017, 10:47 AM
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#20
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,309 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
Just drive it and the next time it happens, check for spark. If it sparks, it's fuel related. If not, its electrical. Btw, a fuel delivery problem could still be electrical related.
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