WTB 1973 Cylinder Head Temp sensor p/n 017, Looking for original temp sensor |
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WTB 1973 Cylinder Head Temp sensor p/n 017, Looking for original temp sensor |
Superhawk996 |
Apr 23 2019, 07:12 AM
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#1
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,469 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
WTB 1973 Cylinder Head Temp Sensor
Part number 0 280 130 017: about 1.3 K ohms at 68 deg - supposedly unique to 1973 only for use in conjunction with the 270 ohm external resistor. Anyone have a verified good part? |
Chi-town |
Apr 23 2019, 07:30 AM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 31-August 18 From: Disneyland Member No.: 22,446 Region Association: Southern California |
The Bosch 017 is also VW 022 906 041A. The 017 is designed to work with a 260 ohm resistor. It was used only on the 2.0 for 1973
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914Sixer |
Apr 23 2019, 07:33 AM
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#3
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,989 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
May have a used one. Have to check. Afermarket ones patterned after 017.
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Superhawk996 |
Apr 23 2019, 09:56 AM
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#4
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,469 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
@914Sixer
I didn't expect to find a new one given that these were only used on 1973. PM me if you find one. Unfortunately my car is 1973 and I was thinking of going back to all OE. I am aware that others convert to the 74 ECU, dizzy, etc. so that they have wider part choices. My understanding is that there was quite a difference between the other sensors and the 017 at ambient temp (1973 only). Something on the order of 1000 ohms at ambient. Does anyone know what the resistance is of say the 914Rubber CHT sensor at ambient vs. the 017? I didn't think aftermarket sensors would work on 1973 systems even with the 250 ohm resistor in place. Thanks! |
dlee6204 |
Apr 23 2019, 12:43 PM
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#5
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Howdy Group: Members Posts: 2,162 Joined: 30-April 06 From: Burnsville, NC Member No.: 5,956 |
My understanding is that there was quite a difference between the other sensors and the 017 at ambient temp (1973 only). Something on the order of 1000 ohms at ambient. Does anyone know what the resistance is of say the 914Rubber CHT sensor at ambient vs. the 017? I didn't think aftermarket sensors would work on 1973 systems even with the 250 ohm resistor in place. Thanks! The 017 is definitely different from the 012 sensor which are commonly available. You can use a 012 sensor and your engine will run decent but definitely not as it should with the 017. Mainly the warmup enrichment will be off. I’d reach out to 914Rubber to see if they can make them. I inquired a year or two ago when I was in the same boat as you. |
Chi-town |
Apr 23 2019, 01:11 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 31-August 18 From: Disneyland Member No.: 22,446 Region Association: Southern California |
Why not just find the difference in resistance and add a resistor to the 012 sensor if it's widely available?
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914Sixer |
Apr 23 2019, 01:47 PM
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#7
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,989 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Just checked the resistance of a brand new 914 Rubber temp sensor and a URO temp sensor at 73 degrees room temperature.
914 Rubber 2160-2180 ohms @73* URO 2002-2004 ohms @ 73 * Attached image(s) |
Superhawk996 |
Apr 23 2019, 01:47 PM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,469 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Not a bad suggestion on the surface.
However, resistance of the thermocouple that is at the heart of the sensor often isn't linear. Adding a resistor is linear. Using the information below: If you ad the 890 ohms of difference between the 012 part number CHT sensor and the 017 CHT sensor part, to get to the same resistance at ambient temperature, it will also add 890 ohms to the warm resistance which will be way to much resistance when hot. Sensor: Temp @ 39 deg. Temp @ 61 deg. Temp @ 210 deg F 0 280 130 003 6.10 K ohms 2.94 K ohms 199.3 ohms 0 280 130 012 NA .85 K ohms 191.2 ohms 0 280 130 017 3.63 K ohms 1.74 K ohms 124.7 ohms from https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/DJetParts.htm If we had all three sensors, you could generate plots with many more points than just these 3 and it would obvious that the resistance change per degree of heat change isn't linear. I've read of others using variable potentiometers to adjust the resistance manually as the engine warms but that is just a very bad band aid. I could create some sort of program on an Arduino microprocessor to mimic the non-linear effects but again that is just a lot of work to create a band aid. I still think it should be easier to find a CHT sensor - even if used but then again, this WTB ad has only been up for a day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
Superhawk996 |
Apr 23 2019, 01:53 PM
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#9
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,469 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Just checked the resistance of a brand new 914 Rubber temp sensor and a URO temp sensor at 73 degrees room temperature. 914 Rubber 2160-2180 ohms @73* URO 2002-2004 ohms @ 73 * Bummer -- neither of them look to be the same as the mythical 017 CHT sensor. My 017 p/n measures 2.86K ohms at ambient which leads me to believe it is bad since the table of values I just posted shows that is should be more like 1.74K ohms. Thank you for looking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
Superhawk996 |
Apr 25 2019, 06:14 AM
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#10
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,469 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Can't believe no one has one of these sitting around just rotting away on a 1973 GA engine in the back of the parts pile.
Anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
Chi-town |
Apr 25 2019, 07:29 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 31-August 18 From: Disneyland Member No.: 22,446 Region Association: Southern California |
Why would the resistance not be linear? I've never seen a temp sensor that isn't.
https://www.ratwell.com/technical/TempSensorII.html |
GregAmy |
Apr 25 2019, 09:07 AM
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#12
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,385 Joined: 22-February 13 From: Middletown CT Member No.: 15,565 Region Association: North East States |
Aren't these things effectively ignored after the head is warmed-up?
I'd suggest the performance difference of these two sensors is basically undetectable. And, the higher resistance of the 012 might actually improve the warm-up cycle of the '73, telling the computers it's "colder" than it actually is. I'd toss the common one on and be done with it. |
Superhawk996 |
Apr 25 2019, 09:44 AM
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#13
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,469 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Why would the resistance not be linear? I've never seen a temp sensor that isn't. https://www.ratwell.com/technical/TempSensorII.html ? ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Not sure what you mean. The graph of the temp sensor in the link you provided clearly shows the non lineararity. Great link though!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
KevinW |
Apr 25 2019, 12:24 PM
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#14
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 25-May 15 From: Winona, Minnesota Member No.: 18,761 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
PM sent
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Superhawk996 |
Apr 26 2019, 12:02 PM
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#15
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,469 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Kevin is the man of the hour. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) Thank you for helping!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)
Part is used and unknown whether it's working or not. I'll check out when I receive it and will post a graph of temperature response if it is working so others have access to the sensor response characteristics that seem to be lacking on the 017 CHT sensors used in 1973 only. |
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