Questions about Air Conditioning, ... help me make my car cooler! |
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Questions about Air Conditioning, ... help me make my car cooler! |
tygaboy |
Aug 1 2019, 05:06 PM
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#1
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,431 Joined: 6-October 15 From: Petaluma, CA Member No.: 19,241 Region Association: Northern California |
Hi World - I need some info:
I'm working to add A/C to my build and I found this little set up that's 10.5" wide, 8.5" deep and 4.5" tall. What I don't know is what's possible in terms of orientation of these evaporator/ fan units. I know they have to drain any condensation (and not into the motor, etc.) but assuming I address that: - Is there any appreciable impact to how the evap unit performs if it were stood on end, turned upside down, etc.? Essentially, does refrigerant care about flowing up vs down vs sideways? - Do any of the other components, like the expansion valve, care about orientation? If needed, I'm totally OK with cutting up the case, making one that suites my needs and reusing the components. Or, if there are other considerations, if I'm missing something, please let me know. Thanks in advance for any help! Chris Attached thumbnail(s) |
Cairo94507 |
Aug 1 2019, 05:09 PM
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#2
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 10,022 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California |
Mmmmmm.....man I wish my Six had AC! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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jcd914 |
Aug 1 2019, 05:18 PM
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#3
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,081 Joined: 7-February 08 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 8,684 Region Association: Northern California |
I don't think freon or the expansion valve care about their oreintation.
The squirrel cage fans are designed to have the shaft flat. The fan life will be shorter if mounted sideways but probably it will last many years. Jim |
tygaboy |
Aug 1 2019, 05:38 PM
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#4
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,431 Joined: 6-October 15 From: Petaluma, CA Member No.: 19,241 Region Association: Northern California |
I don't think freon or the expansion valve care about their oreintation. The squirrel cage fans are designed to have the shaft flat. The fan life will be shorter if mounted sideways but probably it will last many years. Jim Thanks Jim! I'm still in the "hmmm, maybe it'll fit here" stage but the current plan (assuming things will work with the orientation) is to stand the evap unit up and fit it in the general location of an Appearance Group console. I can build a case that mounts two squirrel cage fans, one above the other, and keeps the shafts horizontal. |
Chris914n6 |
Aug 1 2019, 05:48 PM
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#5
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Jackstands are my life. Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region |
You can mount it however you want, freon don't care.
The motors will depend on the bearings, but many factory blowers face vertical. You will need a good drain or it will get stinky. You can mount it IN the center console if you wanted, it looks small enough. (lol I type slow) |
tygaboy |
Aug 1 2019, 05:57 PM
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#6
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,431 Joined: 6-October 15 From: Petaluma, CA Member No.: 19,241 Region Association: Northern California |
You can mount it however you want, freon don't care. The motors will depend on the bearings, but many factory blowers face vertical. You will need a good drain or it will get stinky. You can mount it IN the center console if you wanted, it looks small enough. (lol I type slow) So it's sounding safe to "Go Vertical!", at least for the evap stuff. I can work out the fan situation. I may want to use something different anyway. Thanks! |
amfab |
Aug 1 2019, 07:05 PM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 17-May 16 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 20,004 Region Association: None |
I think orientation makes a difference if it is a parallel flow evaporator
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FL000 |
Aug 1 2019, 07:29 PM
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 421 Joined: 31-January 12 From: Lancaster, CA Member No.: 14,076 Region Association: Southern California |
I happen to be researching the same thing right now. Not pushing one brand or another, but checkout the Vintage Air 2019 catalog. Lots of good info that probably applies no matter who you go with. For example they point out that the receiver/drier orientation is critical, since it separates liquid from the gas bubbles, and you want the tube always immersed in the liquid (e.g. vertical). They are also specific about how you mount the condenser. For the eval unit you probably have some more play to modify it, as long as you make sure the condensation can drain.
I will be watching your thread since I am shortly behind you. Heat by this winter, and A/C by next summer is the plan! |
Rand |
Aug 1 2019, 07:37 PM
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#9
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
AC is for weenies. Spritzer bottle.
(I know, I know) |
mepstein |
Aug 1 2019, 08:15 PM
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#10
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,518 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
AC is for weenies. Spritzer bottle. (I know, I know) I’m a weenie. I like heat too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
TravisNeff |
Aug 1 2019, 09:10 PM
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#11
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region |
One of my past 914's had dealer installed AC. For the condensation drain there was a hole in the firewall behind the dashboard and a hose was passed through and down into the area of the steering rack to drain.
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Rand |
Aug 1 2019, 09:14 PM
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#12
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
AC is for weenies. Spritzer bottle. (I know, I know) I’m a weenie. I like heat too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That's what jackets are for. You have to get outside the car at some point. Dress for the weather not the inside of the car. Just teasing as you know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
76-914 |
Aug 1 2019, 09:31 PM
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#13
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Repeat Offender & Resident Subaru Antagonist Group: Members Posts: 13,611 Joined: 23-January 09 From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 9,964 Region Association: Southern California |
AC is for weenies. Spritzer bottle. (I know, I know) Actually Rand, AC is for comfort Those who walk upright usually approve. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) |
djway |
Aug 1 2019, 10:50 PM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 16-October 15 From: Riverside Member No.: 19,266 Region Association: Southern California |
Limited understanding here but I believe the liquid feed is supposed to be below the gas out.
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Andyrew |
Aug 2 2019, 03:13 AM
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#15
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California |
The case should have some kind of drain port you can use to orient it. Apart from that it shouldn't matter how you mount it. The best spot I found is either directly where the wipers are (no go for wipers) or where I'm mounting mine (glove box area cut into the firewall).
You can go all project Binky on us and totally make a custom housing to fit somewhere but it's all about those fans as they are the bulky item. |
tygaboy |
Aug 2 2019, 07:44 AM
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#16
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,431 Joined: 6-October 15 From: Petaluma, CA Member No.: 19,241 Region Association: Northern California |
The case should have some kind of drain port you can use to orient it. Apart from that it shouldn't matter how you mount it. The best spot I found is either directly where the wipers are (no go for wipers) or where I'm mounting mine (glove box area cut into the firewall). You can go all project Binky on us and totally make a custom housing to fit somewhere but it's all about those fans as they are the bulky item. Thanks Andrew. I've started looking at DC brushless fans to replace the squirrel cage set up. There are some ~ 5" x 5" X 1.5" that appear to have adequate CFM. Something like this would really open up where I could fit it and might allow me to totally hide it. I'm pretty sure I can make this work and not have to cut into the front fire wall. "Film at 11:00" as I futz with all this. Thanks again! |
tygaboy |
Aug 2 2019, 07:47 AM
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#17
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,431 Joined: 6-October 15 From: Petaluma, CA Member No.: 19,241 Region Association: Northern California |
Limited understanding here but I believe the liquid feed is supposed to be below the gas out. I know this is true for the condenser and there are rules for the drier mounting, as was pointed out earlier. In the perfect world, I'll be about to keep things oriented "as delivered" but repackage the components. I think I'll call Vintage Air and see what they have to say. Thanks! |
andys |
Aug 2 2019, 08:56 AM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 21-May 03 From: Valencia, CA Member No.: 721 Region Association: None |
That blower motor for the squirrel cage is a very common part used on everything from Ford to Nissan. I don't recall the part number, but might be able to dig it up, if you need to know.
Andys |
dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Aug 2 2019, 09:09 AM
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#19
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,055 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
if a six the new radial compressor mounts on the left front of the engine and the firewall will have to be modified to mount. Ac lines go down the right rocker panel, oil cooler lines (if engine is 2.7 or larger) go down the left rocker panel, the the oil cooler against the front panel, the ac condenser behind it, both with fans so you will not suck hot air from the exit of the oil cooler into the intake of the condenser. The rest is easy
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jd74914 |
Aug 2 2019, 09:11 AM
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#20
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Its alive Group: Members Posts: 4,796 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States |
Thanks Andrew. I've started looking at DC brushless fans to replace the squirrel cage set up. There are some ~ 5" x 5" X 1.5" that appear to have adequate CFM. Something like this would really open up where I could fit it and might allow me to totally hide it. Be careful there. Most axial fans have pretty sketchy fan curve documentation. You need to know not only the air flow (cfm) but also the corresponding head rise. The original fan impellers likely have significantly higher head rise vs. flow curves to push through the heat exchanger. Not saying the swap won't work, but you really need the fan curves for the original and potential replacements before making a decision. Limited understanding here but I believe the liquid feed is supposed to be below the gas out. I know this is true for the condenser and there are rules for the drier mounting, as was pointed out earlier. In the perfect world, I'll be about to keep things oriented "as delivered" but repackage the components. I think I'll call Vintage Air and see what they have to say. Thanks! There can be ideal evaporator orientations too; it's very design specific though. Mostly comes down to the size of the tubes. Unlike condensers it's not super critical, just provides a slight efficiency gain (we're talking maybe a few percent here). I'd be more concerned about blower bearings TBH. In stationary blowers like that the thrust bearings are generally pretty wimpy since they're really not designed for load, just to prevent contact between impeller and housing. In an automotive application you would think they would put some more thought into them due to lateral loading, but who knows. |
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