need wheels/tires, ...autocrossing Options

[Schnell944]

hey all. I'm getting my car ready for the autocross season and am new to the 914 scene. i was wondering what you guys consider from experience to be a good, relatively low budget, autocross wheel/tire setup. im prob. looking to buy used, and yes, ill be looking at the classifides here....i just would like some background info to help me with the choice....and if anyone knows of a set available please let me know! thanks! btw, this is a '72 914 1.7L w/o any mods.

Ryan Z

[Dave_Darling]

Version 1--Steel 914 wheels, 5.5x15" with about 4 3/4" or a little more backspacing. (That's the distance from the inner lip of the rim to where the wheel meets the hub.) Those should fit 195-width tires easily, and probably will fit 205-width tires. Steelies are cheap, which is their main plus.

Version 2--four-bolt Fuchs. They're 5.5x15 and have the right backspacing. They're also light and strong. They fit 195s on pretty much all 914s, and 205s on most. They seem to run "around" $100 each used, but prices can vary a lot.

Version 3--any alloy wheel that fits correctly (5.5x15, ~4 3/4" backspacing, 4x130mm bolt pattern). Not a lot of aftermarket wheels fit. These can be cheap or expensive, but are usually lighter than steel wheels and heavier than Fuchs.

Version 4--Revolution 6.5"x15" wheels with 5" backspacing. These should fit 205s on most cars, and should be medium-light. The tires will work more effectively on 6.5s than they do on 5.5s.

Which version you choose depends on what you need and what you can afford. Some rulesets will penalize you (put you in a different class) for using wider wheels than the stock 5.5 inchers.

I say go for the steelies. If you're just beginning, the extra weight won't make an appreciable difference, and you can put the money you'll save over Fuchs or other alloys into attending more events and keeping up on the maintenance of the car.

Seat time is the biggest single factor.

--DD

[Bleyseng]

Stay in stock class to start which usually limits you to a 195x60x15 tire. Stock class usually let you have a choice of shocks so you can install externally adjustable Koni's which help alot.
Steel rims are fine as long as they aren't the VW bug ones that are 41/2 wide.
Go have fun!!!
Geoff

[mskala]

Where Ryan is running there is no limit to tires other
than DOT and fit under the car for stock class. The
best bet if you are actually going with different wheels
is 205-50, but not all cars can fit those, then go to
195-50 for AX.

I don't think I would recommend those sizes for
all-around driving if you don't get special wheels. Too
small diameter. I have 205-55 and think it's a good
compromise.

Mark S.
'70 914-6

[Bleyseng]

Ahhhh, if he can run the 205x50's do it for the gearing change. Gives you a boost off the line and the car becomes much quicker. As for what tires I have been running Dunlops SP8000 for the last two years as a street/AX tire. I does well in both but I am stepping up to Kuhmos Victoracers now. Consider the Kuhmos 205x50x15 if you are getting separate tires for AXing and a set of the Fuchs as they are soo light and strong.

Here is a set of used Revolutions/R1 for sale:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=101413
Geoff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[kdfoust]

I'd stay with OE type wheels unless you want to spend in excess of ~$200 a pop. The only downside of OE wheels is that they're gonna be used and I've found through experience that dealing with used wheel sellers can be exasperating as hell. The fitments are also a no-brainer by staying OE.

Running OE wheels, here's the choices:
Steel: boring, heavy, super cheap ($whocares/each)
Pedrini: not all that common, but, cheap ($60/each)
Mahle: still not all that common still cheap ($60-75/each)
Fuchs: can't swing a cat with hitting a p-car with Fuchs. Light, not too expensive ($100/ea with imperfect finish, but not banged up), but higher than Pedrinis and Mahles.

I've picked up a set of each. They are all on my todo list to refinish this year. FYI, I'm running 205/50 on my '72 stock. The front gets a light rub at full lock on the inside fender wells (no problem to me).

Have fun,
Kevin

[Lawrence]

I have to agree with KD in his analysis. Fuchs are the best stock 4-bolt wheels out there, but they are VERY common.

Maybe with a different paint scheme (polished, and painted to match the car)... then Fuchs would be less boring.

[Porsche Rescue]

If you want something a bit different, take a look at ATS (called "Roadstar" I think), 5.5x15, German.
Mine are painted and clear coated. Original are more gray and not so shiney. Car has no engine so sitting a bit high in the pic. My scale says 14 lbs for 2.0
Fuchs, 14.5 for the ATS.

[Part Pricer]

What about tires for AX? I'm running 4-bolt 15" wheels on my car and I'm looking for something to use for Autocross. I've heard good things about the Falken AZENIS Sport from people. But, I don't think that I've heard from anyone that has tried them on a 914.

Supposedly, they are very sticky and do not require much to get them up to operating temps. I'm considering 205/50VR15s. Anybody have any input?

[Dave_Darling]

Do you have two sets of wheels so you can swap to "race tires" and then back to "street tires"? Are you running in a class that requires "street tires", or just "DOT-rated tires"?

If you have two sets of wheels and can use DOT-rated "sticky" tires, those offer by far the best grip. They're pretty poor as street tires, as they don't last and are uncomfortable and loud, and can be dangerous in the wet and disastrous if you ever hit snow. The A032Rs are the least sticky of the sticky-tire set but last by far the longest. They're fine for learning on. The Kumho Victoracers are the least expensive, middling grip, and middling lifespan. Hoosiers are expensive, don't last at all, and grip like crazy! I don't know who's running BFG R1s any more...

For a "street tire", the Azenis is one of the kings of dry grip. The only real competition that I've read of for it costs quite a bit more. They don't last as long as most street tires, but a lot longer than the "sticky" tires. And there are other good options for street-type tires as well, but the Azenis seem to be a really good way to go for cheap traction.

--DD

[Scott]

A032Rs are the least sticky of the sticky-tire set but last by far the longest. They're fine for learning on.

Yokohama has made a new addition to their A032R line up. A softer compound tire the A032R SC.

[seanery]

Can you even GET R1's anymore?

[kdfoust]

What about tires for AX? I'm running 4-bolt 15" wheels on my car and I'm looking for something to use for Autocross. I've heard good things about the Falken AZENIS Sport from people. But, I don't think that I've heard from anyone that has tried them on a 914.

Supposedly, they are very sticky and do not require much to get them up to operating temps. I'm considering 205/50VR15s. Anybody have any input?

I knew a guy that had Azenis on his teener but he freaked out and sold the car and the whole kelbasa so I never heard how we liked 'em. I am seeing more Azenis at PCA AX events. Everyone feels like they're a great tire "for the money." (like ~$60/pop in our sizes).

I'm running on a set of BFG KD. This will be my second season of driving events on them so I'm starting to form an opinion on the BFG tires. They do like to heat up a bit before they really stick well (like one lap of AX gets 'em setup just fine) although you can drive 'em pretty hard cold if you need to. Running a TT format at Streets of Willow I was seeing tires temps around 140 degs after 4-5 continuous laps and found them be sticking just fine. They're predictable and give reasonable feedback at their limits that sometimes makes recovery possible. They're stiff, making the car nice and quick, but it does roughen the ride slightly; just enough to cause the Ramones to skip in the CD player on occasion. I have no idea about wear since I only drive at and to/from driving events. They've never seen the rain or snow so I have no input on that either. I do know BFG makes a KDW for you folks that live in climates that have weather other than sunshine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

All that said, wew, I've heard enough good things about the Azenis that I'm going to buy a set. GRM did a compare between AX tires a couple of months ago and rated the KD top and Azeni second (without factoring in cost). Remember that stack of wheels in my earlier post? Here's what I'm going to setup (by July):
BFG KD 205/50-15 on Mahles, hardcoat anodized dark green.
Azenis on the Fuchs, centers and spokes painted black, lips polished.
Street tires, Firestone whatevers, on Pedrinis, painted silver OE style.

Then I'll do a taste test between the Azenis and BFG. More later!

Have fun,
Kevin

[EdwardBlume]

I just started running my 2.0 Fuchs with Kuhmo Victoracers 205/50s. I'm very pleased with the results. You don't want these tires unless you plan to mount street tires for everything else. They wear out fast especially with a comp alignment.

Last year, my wife and I ran 11 times on Yokohama AVS tires. They worked great, and I'm still seeing many folks using them. I'm not sure if they're still being made, but we got almost 3,000 miles out of them.

Good luck.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)