Suspension ear reinforcement, Would this work? (pic) |
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Suspension ear reinforcement, Would this work? (pic) |
smrz914 |
May 3 2005, 09:02 PM
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#1
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Soon to be brightening the life of the person behind you. Group: Members Posts: 456 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Pleasant Hill, CA or Chico, CA Member No.: 596 |
I played around with photoshop a little bit. I hope 914RS doesn't mink I used his picture.
Anyway, instead of having a tube go from the ear to the firewall, I thought that one could take some sheetmetal and create a shelf. I don't thin this will work for /4 but it might for converted cars. I thought a cross section might look like _____ |_____\__________ Would this be strong enough? Just seeing if there is a nice way of doing the brace. So It would be like having another shelf. I don't know how low the engine mount goes but I think one could work around that. On the ear the attachment point would be pretty low and be able to handle movement better. On the firewall site it would attach to the back edge of the floorpan. Attached image(s) |
Series9 |
May 3 2005, 09:08 PM
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#2
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
As long as the box tubing is substantial enough, I think that would work fine.
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smrz914 |
May 3 2005, 09:18 PM
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#3
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Soon to be brightening the life of the person behind you. Group: Members Posts: 456 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Pleasant Hill, CA or Chico, CA Member No.: 596 |
In that case the question becomes, what is substantial enough?
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Porsche Doc |
May 3 2005, 10:06 PM
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#4
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HillBilly Member Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 11-December 04 From: Knoxville,TN Member No.: 3,265 Region Association: None |
Hey smrz914,
Here is the way we do it to all our hot rods and race cars. We box the almost all of the suspsion console with 12Ga like the GT stiffing plates. The ReaL week point is the lower section of the ear. It takes the most load. The tubing is good to add also Here's some pics. Attached image(s) |
Porsche Doc |
May 3 2005, 10:07 PM
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#5
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HillBilly Member Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 11-December 04 From: Knoxville,TN Member No.: 3,265 Region Association: None |
another
Attached image(s) |
Series9 |
May 3 2005, 10:09 PM
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#6
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
.125" wall and .75" x 1.5" box tube would be the minimum I would use in your design. That being said, I would still want to see it in person before I made a final judgement. |
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John |
May 3 2005, 10:46 PM
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#7
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
I did my race cars similar to Porsche Doc. I fishplated the console and then added tubing. My tubing goes through the firewall and ties into the cage.
The shelf idea is interesting, but what are you attaching it to at the front? (the floorpan?) You may need to add some strength to that if you tie in there. To add stiffness to a structure, your anchor points must be substantial, or you are wasting your time. If you decide to go ahead with the shelf and rectangular tubing, I would consider adding some drain holes to the shelf. just my $0.02 |
Brett W |
May 3 2005, 11:12 PM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,858 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None |
Don,
I didn't see you and Charles at the Mitty. What happened? |
smrz914 |
May 3 2005, 11:14 PM
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#9
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Soon to be brightening the life of the person behind you. Group: Members Posts: 456 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Pleasant Hill, CA or Chico, CA Member No.: 596 |
Thanks guys I'll have plenty to mull over for a while. I'm just making plans for my project. Porsche Doc, did you add metal to where the trailing arm bolt goes through the ear, possibly requiring a longer bolt, or was that left the stock thickness, and metal added around where the nut would be?
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Jeroen |
May 4 2005, 06:51 AM
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#10
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,887 Joined: 24-December 02 From: The Netherlands Member No.: 3 Region Association: Europe |
here's what I'm planning to do
weld a piece of 2" tube around the nut then tie braces to that (braces will be weld to both the 2" piece of tubing as the susp.ear itself) All the cracks I've seen are either at the nut or just above it I feel the braces pictured above don't reinforce that area This should Attached image(s) |
JWest |
May 4 2005, 07:13 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,662 Joined: 6-January 03 From: Fort Worth, TX Member No.: 97 Region Association: None |
Watch your clearances there Jeroen - that area is close to the engine. |
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Jeroen |
May 4 2005, 07:20 AM
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#12
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,887 Joined: 24-December 02 From: The Netherlands Member No.: 3 Region Association: Europe |
I know, it's gonna be a tight fit The 2" tubing will only be about 1/2 an inch deep |
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andys |
May 4 2005, 09:45 AM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 21-May 03 From: Valencia, CA Member No.: 721 Region Association: None |
When adding structure to the ear and extending it to a remote location, any flexing in the chassis that is realized between those to points may cause undue transfer of loading to the ear. This may cause the cracking/failure you're trying to avoid in the first place. A localized structure that spreads the loads I would think to be a better solution. If you have a full cage, then this may not be an issue.
Andy |
Porsche Doc |
May 4 2005, 11:12 AM
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#14
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HillBilly Member Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 11-December 04 From: Knoxville,TN Member No.: 3,265 Region Association: None |
Hey Brett Man, We did't get to go. Charles is the PCA SMR region Pres. and he had the to go to Spring Fling thing they have. BUT we will be back next year. I was told it was a big turn out. Hey smrz914 We did not plate a the section of the ear were it bolts. Take a good look at the pic and you will see. Hey Jeroen You are heading for trouble with your design. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) Like James said the engine is real close there. If it has a six in it you won't get the valve covers off with out taking the engine out. |
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Brett W |
May 4 2005, 12:11 PM
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#15
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,858 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None |
Yeah 400+ cars. The 914 crowd didn't really make a great showing. Most broke or also ran.
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brant |
May 4 2005, 01:16 PM
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#16
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Sorry no pictures currently of my 4 cylinder car.. but Jeroen its nearly like your plan. It works. and does not create additional problems. I know this because I ripped out 2 suspension consoles (NO RUST) before I did the bolt in brace. and since that time with 8-10 years I have not ripped out a suspension console. Yes it can be close for fitment, but that is the beauty of a bolt in brace. You simply un bolt it when you want to drop the motor. brant |
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J P Stein |
May 4 2005, 04:49 PM
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#17
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
I like the looks of this . To my of thinking, the lateral forces are the greatest and it happens to coincide with the weakest axis of the ear and since the damn things seem to rust from the inside out......I'm thinkin' of removing the entire inside half of the ear & fabing a 3/16" plate to replace it. Jeroen: I had to grind down my turbo valve covers about .3 in in order to clear the end of the pivot rod in order to get em' off & on. The more "stuff" in the way the worse it's gonna be. |
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MecGen |
May 4 2005, 05:13 PM
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#18
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8 Easy Steps Group: Members Posts: 848 Joined: 8-January 05 From: Laval, Canada Member No.: 3,421 |
Hi
I followed a couple topics like this and got some real help. My experience has been that they break at the bolt hole across, then fold outwards to the direction of the fender. I wonder if Brants broke this way. My research left me to understand that, if the ear is in good condition, its ok for almost anything on the street. If it is so-so but save-able, it should be re-inforced. I just don't think the solution offered here has any real benifit for the street. I look hard at mods to preserve my car....still looking at it. Later.. Joe (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) |
brant |
May 4 2005, 05:44 PM
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#19
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,739 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Joe, I want to agree with you regarding street use.. not all that necessary in my book. and I should of added that both of my failures were on a track car not a street car and finally, yes.. both of my failures started at the bolt hole... The first time I thought it was metal fatigue becuase the car was 20 years old (although it had NO rust even inside)... but after we put in a brand new console and it failed in less than 1 year I sought a better plan. That car is a -4 so the bolt in bar angles towards the center of the firewall. The console side of the bar bolts 1 inch away from the bolt hole On the new race car the bolt in bars are similar, but with very different attatchments methods and it attatches 8+ inches away from the bolt hole with the bar running very straight forward to clear those valve covers. On my -4, I reconverted it to a street car now. (although the motor and tranny are both currently blown) I reinstalled heat-exchangers, heat duct work, and all the stock bits right around the existing bracing bar. In a month I'll try to get a pic of it. brant |
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Andyrew |
May 4 2005, 05:53 PM
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#20
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California |
Any more pics Jeroen?
This is an area I will be reinforcing at my next engine pull... (probably soon...) And I want it to be able to hold the v8's tq on hoosers with rock hard suspension... Probably get a good welder and helmet before this as well.. lol Andrew |
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