New Porsche V6..legal for engine swap??, For PCA regions that specify "Porsche" Options

[Mueller]

Hmmmm?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It has been announced that the Cayenne will have a 3.2 liter V6 which is based on the Audi A3 and Golf R32 motor, but with more hp than the other two engines.

247hp instead of 217hp

Installing one of these into a 914 should be pretty easy due to the compactness of the motor (15° V6), so, what are the odds that one would be able to participate in PCA autocross and time trial with such a motor??? (some regions say the car must have a Porsche motor and engine)
Now I think they also say that if it is a motor swap it should still have the "spirit" or somewhat the same configuation as the original car--(no mid engine 911 conversions????)

Notice I say participate and not compete, since I'm guessing that if allowed, you't be put in a class with mega-dollar motors and cubic dollars. (M, K or Z ???)

I think it should be allowed since air-cooled motors all the way up to 3.8 liters are routinly run and those for sure never came from the factory that way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The way I look at it, the /4 are based on VW engines, so why not a Cayenne V6??? Same basic idea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So, now all we need to do is wait for these motors to start showing up at the wreckers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

[brant]

So I got the new club race mag with the possible rule changes for next year. They have not voted yet on them..

I only skimmed them, but I think one of the new rules says that no air cool car can have a water cool motor transplanted into it without going all the way to GTC (aka 917 and the likes)...


crock o' xxxx

brant

[Scott Carlberg]

I think one of the new rules says that no air cool car can have a water cool motor transplanted into it without going all the way to GTC (aka 917 and the likes)...

so what.

as I recall, there isn't alot of money (read: zero) in club racing.
Isn't club racing supposed to be about having Fun, and gaining experience on the track?

Besides which, if you were put in a class with high hp cars, look at it this way....
lots of clear track time, until the REAlly fast guys come around to pass you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

then again, maybe you'd get to be really fast with a 250hp 914!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_flagge24.gif)

[Mueller]

until the REAlly fast guys come around to pass you!

the problem with this train of thought is that it's dangerous to be too slow out there, look what happened to Chris Foley a few weeks ago when too slow of a car was on the track with him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

of course even if you had a converted car that can be as fast as a 917, can you drive it at that level out there on the track and not be a danger to yourself or others????

for an auto-x it's no big deal, you are not threat to anyone, heck, you might even win your class everytime since i don't think anyone has auto-x'd a 917 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

[URY914]

They let me run and I have a VW engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Paul

[fiid]

-CHOP-

Installing one of these into a 914 should be pretty easy due to the compactness of the motor (15° V6), so, what are the odds that one would be able to participate in PCA autocross and time trial with such a motor??? (some regions say the car must have a Porsche motor and engine)

Now I think they also say that if it is a motor swap it should still have the "spirit" or somewhat the same configuation as the original car--(no mid engine 911 conversions????)

Notice I say participate and not compete, since I'm guessing that if allowed, you't be put in a class with mega-dollar motors and cubic dollars. (M, K or Z ???)

I think it should be allowed since air-cooled motors all the way up to 3.8 liters are routinly run and those for sure never came from the factory that way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-CHOP-

No shit! 911s never came with 3.8s. So as far as I'm concerned thats as non-factory as a subaru motor.

The porsche club around here will let you compete with any all-porsche combination. Of course, a 944 powered 914 is factory, right?? *COUGH*

In autocross you can run anything as long as it's not a toolbox^H^H^H^H^HNissan Xterra or something like to roll over. You need to be a pca member to run a non-porsche car, but I think you could run any conversion of 914 without being a member.

Time trial is a different story - you cannot run unless you are in a class - and with a non-porsche motor you are not in a class.

It's a big shame because the PCA is a great club, and I would love to do their time trial stuff, but I just don't want the weightor expense of a 6 or the expense and hassle of building a big 4. The subaru motors are cheap, extremely powerful and light. Can't believe porsche didn't build them :-)

You will be fine as long as all your stuff came from porsche, no matter how frankenstein it is.


Fiid.

[boxsterfan]

Wouldn't it be a real PITA to put this new Porsche V6 water-pumper in your 914?

[Mueller]

Wouldn't it be a real PITA to put this new Porsche V6 water-pumper in your 914?

I'd say the biggest pain would to be routing the waterlines and the radiator, all in all, it wouldn't be too different than running oil lines and an oil cooler up front for a big air cooled /6 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[grantsfo]

Why not a Boxster engine?

[Aaron Cox]

why not a twin turbo cayanne S engine? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chatsmiley.gif)

[Andyrew]

Of course, a 944 powered 914 is factory, right?? *COUGH*

I wish it would fit and bolt to the trani! That engine has so much potential... And I have one sitting in my shed!! If only...


On the Cayenne, I think that the boxter s engine (258 hp) would be better, they already are making it, and it is already smog... And it would be cheaper than making a new engine. Perfect for the family with 40k for a new SUV. Maybe less...

As far as a transplat, I'll take an aluminum full race 951 engine (like 50 of em made...).


Andrew

[Hawktel]

Grant SFo, the Boxster engine has some issues. mainly it don't fit right, and you got widen the Trailing arms I've heard. And a number of other things. But I have heard there are atleast 3 in development, or maybe even under construction, somewhere on this site.


Overall I think its "Do able" just bring money.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Mueller]

On the Cayenne, I think that the boxter s engine

Andrew, the boxster is a flat 6, the Cayenne uses a V6/V8.......I'm sure they'd love to use a flat motor if it could fit in the front of the engine bay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I still think the boxster motor will fit in the 914 without modifing the trailing arm mounting tabs....the motor can always be mounted a little closer to the firewall

[boxsterfan]

I

I still think the boxster motor will fit in the 914 without modifing the trailing arm mounting tabs....the motor can always be mounted a little closer to the firewall

I believe someone posted a pic once of a 914 that did have a Boxster motor in it.

[Mueller]

I was never sure if that one car really had a boxster engine in it or was he just running a boxster muffler.........the green car from Germany correct??

[seanery]

the picture from the car show?

[Mueller]

another reason why I like the idea of the new V6 is due to cost....more than likely, there will not be too much of a demand for this motor from wrecked Cayennes, unless the VW and Audi guys start to snatch them up for conversions into earlier cars......

I also believe the aftermarket supports the V3.2 motor more than they do the boxster engine, still pricey for parts, but at least they are available.

[Brad Roberts]

It was just a Boxster muffler on a 6cyl 914. They sell converted Boxster mufflers on Ebay for 914's.

Mueller.. PCA will allow you to run anything you want.. you just get thrown into some catch all class.

The tube frame 914 runs in PCA class GTU... nothing exotic shows up for class.


B

[Scott Carlberg]

"PCA will allow you to run anything you want.. you just get thrown into some catch
all class."


I was at a GGR time trial last year at Laguna Seca, I asked some guy with the rules
committee(?) if I could run my 914 with the Audi/VW 1.8t motor.

He walked me over to some other guy that had the rule book.
The book said, "Engine: must be Porsche".

I asked, even in an Exhibition class?

Turn to Exhibition class rules, Engine: must be Porsche. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fighting19.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

"PCA will allow you to run anything you want.. you just get thrown into some catch
all class."

you guys in Zone 7 and 8 at least have the benefit of reasonably consistent rules that apply at most venues you want to run. the only really consistent set of rules within PCA is the Club Racing rules - which are not consistent with the -similar- classifications SCCA uses.

in many other Zones, there is NO broad-based consistency - each Region sets up its own rules when it runs an event.

i haven't studied the TT rules here in the NorthEast (DE, of course, is 'not competitive' and is just about what lap times you can run safely and consistently) but the Riesentöter Region autocross classifications are very broadly based on the Club Race classifications.

so it's hard to say what "PCA" allows unless you're very specifically talking about a National classification structure like Club Race. everything else can and does vary on a Zone- and Region-wide basis. and often at the discretion of the event chair - who may let in 'nonconforming' vehicles if they need the participation entry fee money to make their numbers - or find reasons to exclude cars if an event is oversubscribed ...