4 lug spacers, Yea, or nay Options

[ChrisReale]

I have room up front to push out my wheels about one inch. Where can I get 4 lug spacers? If I played my cards better, when I got my Panasports I would have had two made with a different backspacing to allow for the more room up front, but I was not wise. Are spacers generally considered ok for this? I know I would have to have longer lug bolts, or have longer studs put in. Anything else?

[Joe Ricard]

The farther out you put the wheel the more stress you put on the bearings. Try it out and report back because the new car I am buying has long studs installed already.

[Joe Bob]

Spacers or adapters? Longer studs with spacers that slip over the studs are acceptable. The 930 used them and are acceptable for Timetrial, DE and AX.....adapters are not. More than an inch is where bearings start to get stressed.

[ChrisReale]

basically I want to bump my front wheels out .5 inches or so. Not a necessity, but I want to investigate this option.

[URY914]

I use spacers on my 4-bolt wheels. I have 1/4" in the back but I also have 1/2". Mine are made from aluminum plate. You could make them yourself if you have a drill press.

Paul

[SirAndy]

do it ...
either way, longer lug-nutz or studs pressed in.
you will like the way the car will handle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

bearings are cheap-o ...

i've been running with spacers back/front for over a year and the bearings are still holding up.
Andy

[Korijo]

Spacers

Chris,

I got 2, 1" 4 X 100 spacers from these guys. $100 or so. One inch may be the minimum, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .

[ChrisReale]

Grazie for the link Dave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

Run the spacers. It will be fine. Turn in changes dramatically.


B

[72914S]

I have 1/4" spacers in the front, don`t know why, they were on the car when I got it. They are apita when putting the wheels on.

[Blake]

I'm not pro or anti spacers, but I do believe that people should be aware that they are ALWAYS a tradeoff. So are wheels that have extra offset built in. It doesn't matter how you widen the track; only that you do! Highly skilled engineers designed the suspension geometry for a particular set of specifications. When you change the track of the vehicle you will doubtlessly increase stress to the bearings, as well as many other things. Even if bearings don't show signs of obvious wear, you are still not immune to catastrophic failure when you least need it. Anyone other than me experience this first hand?!? I'm not going to say a 1/4 inch spacer is okay and that a 1 inch spacer is not, nor will I provide any guidance other than to say less is more.

BTW, I am always amused when people point to race cars as examples of what compromises may be acceptable for street cars. Racers (including race engineers) make the most extreme compromises imaginable to shave a tenth (or less) of a second off of a lap. Anything for a fraction of a second, so long as the reward outweighs the risk. Race car engineering belongs on the track, not the street! Be conservative and stay safe.

[SirAndy]

Be conservative and stay safe.

but then, where's the fun ???

do i really want to look back at my life when i'm 80something and say to myself:
"well, at least i was conservative and stayed safe" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

you are right about how cars are engineered and things are the way they are for a reason, but isn't it also true that those cars were designed with quite some safety margins? do you really think a 1/2" spacer will result in immediate, catastrophic failure of important components in your suspension?
is there more load on the bearings with a wider track? absolutely.
but like i said before, bearings are cheap. and if you listen to your car, you can hear them go out early enough. in this particular case, i think the benefits of a wider track outweight the risks.

just my 2 cents,
Andy
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[ChrisReale]

This aint a street car much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

[Blake]

but then, where's the fun ???

do i really want to look back at my life when i'm 80something and say to myself:
"well, at least i was conservative and stayed safe"  

Alternatively, how would you like to be 80something, having spent 50 of those years in a wheelchair or living with the guillt of killing innocent people in an accident? That's a lot of time to think about things and regret your mistakes. Personally, I'd rather live to regret playing things safe rather than (1) die of stupidity or (2) regret a life of stupidity. Please understand I am just countering this specific question; not saying wheel spacers are necessarily stupid or dangerous. Just be aware of the risks and measure the worst-case consequences. Driving is not a blood sport.

FWIW, I am a person that, by all rights, should not still be alive. Scarlet Fever at age 5. Run over by a car at 16. Three single-car accidents, including a couple miraculous coincidences (trees stopping me before a cliff, no trees where there should have been trees, etc). I've been in airplanes that lost engines. I've been shot at. I've defused live landmines. I've driven a car off track at over 100 mph. Broken all my fingers and nearly chopped a couple off. Past hobbies include skiing, scuba diving, skydiving, repelling from cliffs, etc. If I ever live to be 80something, I don't think I will regret playing things safe for the second half of my life but I am already regretting some things I've done earlier since they affect me already...bad back, bad knees, arthritis in my fingers and neck (from injuries), mild hearing loss, etc. And I am only 34. Every weekend at the track (crewing in Grand Am Cup) I take a risk jumping over the wall in the hot pits during pitstops, including fire, being run over by other race cars, having the jack fail or release early while I'm changing a tire, etc. My life is all about managing risks and as I get older I choose to take fewer of them so I can enjoy those that remain. Too many short-odds bets catch up to you over time.

you are right about how cars are engineered and things are the way they are for a reason, but isn't it also true that those cars were designed with quite some safety margins? do you really think a 1/2" spacer will result in immediate, catastrophic failure of important components in your suspension?
is there more load on the bearings with a wider track? absolutely.
but like i said before, bearings are cheap. and if you listen to your car, you can hear them go out early enough. in this particular case, i think the benefits of a wider track outweight the risks.

How many bearing failures have you experienced? I've replaced some noisy and warn/loose ones, but only once did I have a catastrophic failure. There was no warning that time. I was simply driving along, there was a loud screech followed immediately by a snap and the car changed 3 lanes on the freeway, putting me in the weeds. Had there been anyone around, I would have taken them with me. Granted, this was not in a car with spacers or anything, but the experience gave me quite a lot of respect for what a bearing failure can do. That wheel changed camber/toe (loose in all directions) by 30 degrees in a fraction of a second. Wheel bearings may be cheap, but the life you risk is not, so factor that worst-case scenario into your cost/benefit analysis. Are you really willing to live with odds that you will hear/feel the bearing before it fails? Sure, the odds are like a 1000:1 for every instance of failure -- and even then it may not be anything dramatic -- but eventually the odds catch up to you if you make too many bets over a long enough time period. This is why I suggest playing it safe by not taking a bigger risk than necessary, in general. Less is more. Honestly, do you expect to regret using 1/4 inch spacers instead of 1 inch spacers at 80something? Good luck even remembering that trivia...

By the way, in the cost/benefit analysis, you seem to be using the expense of replacing bearing as the "cost" (something I disagree with), but what is the "benefit" you are expecting? Lower lap times? Better "handling" on the street? What makes you so sure that these benefits are (1) real and (2) not available by some other means?

My philosophy is that the best investments you can make for performance are (1) driver training, (2) more driver training, and (3) buy the best damn tires you can afford and replace them frequently. Then, I would worry about suspension settings (caster, camber, toe, wheel rates, roll stiffness, dampening, ride height) and brakes. And add more power with whatever budget I have left. At that point, I might consider changing the track of the car...presuming I already lightened it, lowered it, increased the roll stiffness, optimized the wheel rates/dampening, and so forth. Basically, it would be one of the last things on my rather long 'to do' list OR it would be done as a side effect of needing wider wheels/tires than could fit with the correct offset, while being aware of the compromises.

Again, not saying anything will happen; only that there are compromises that may have consequences, however minor or major. I make all kinds of compromises but I try to be smart about them to minimize risk exposure and -- most importantly -- I am prepared to accept the fate that I am handed if my bet doesn't pay off.

Just my $0.02 and, no, I am not as paranoid as this subject may make you think. I'm just substituting for that little voice of reason that should be whispering into your ear when thinking about this mod. Ignore me at your pleasure, I insist.

[ChrisReale]

. Ignore me at your pleasure, I insist.

OK. All I wanted was opinions and experience running .5 to 1 inch spacers up front. That is the only info I was after.

[SirAndy]

Personally, I'd rather live to regret playing things safe rather than (1) die of stupidity or (2) regret a life of stupidity. Please understand I am just countering this specific question; not saying wheel spacers are necessarily stupid or dangerous. Just be aware of the risks and measure the worst-case consequences. Driving is not a blood sport.

well, i'd rather die stupid and had some fun than safe, (unstupid?) and boring ...

call me stupid (you're not the first one and probably not the last) but i just can't see how 1/2" spacers in front of a teener amount to:
" wheelchair" and "killing innocent people" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

whatever you're smoking, i want some,
Andy

[Andyrew]

Dont drive period, you could kill innocent people.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Andrew

[SirAndy]

too much to quote ....

thanks for sharing your life story.
you're making quite a few assumptions about me and my life experience that are, at best, wrong.
also, i already have quite a few "voices" in my head, i don't think i really need yours in addition.

yes, wheelbearings are dangerous creatures and they can kill!
like a gazillion other things in life.

too bad you can't focus all that energie onto something more usefull, like saving the whales.

Ignore me at your pleasure, I insist.
Andy

[Andyrew]

Btw, on topic, im going to run spacers in the rear of my car if I need them.

Andrew

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

[SirAndy]

Btw, on topic, im going to run spacers in the rear of my car if I need them.

you don't need them. (and i actually mean that), but you'll like the better handling if you decide to put them on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

it also looks much better if the tire comes close to the fender.
i hate it when people put on GT flares and run the stock wheels with 2" air between fender and tire. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)

Andy