SOT: When did the hood badge change? |
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
SOT: When did the hood badge change? |
bbrock |
Sep 24 2022, 09:02 AM
Post
#1
|
914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
This might get some knickers in a quibbley but I'm trying to figure out had the 914 design team's vote to badge the car been honored, which badge would have come on my car. Porsche Classics shows the orange badge used through MY 1973 and the red badge beginning in MY 1974, but there is also this graphic showing the switched occurred sometime in '73.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/images.summitmedia-digital.com-20845-1664031721.1.jpg) The best I can tell, the switch might have happened with the introduction of the 911 G-series in MY 1974 but I've had a hard time finding when actual production began. I did find this article saying it started in August, 1973 which might be a good clue. That may be all I need to know, but does anyone have anything to add? |
wonkipop |
Oct 1 2022, 04:30 PM
Post
#2
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,624 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
@bbrock .
re lotz. your summary is pretty much how i reckon it went. a "slow" porsche was not a hard sell. given the 912 and its popularity - in the USA. in the rest of the world the 912 was something of an oddity. they were pretty rare down here. basically they didn't sell. a few farmer's wives and for the odd rich woman in toorak who didn't want a mercedes benz to do the shopping in or drive to the tennis? i remember i could have picked up a pretty nice second hand one up in the early 80s for the same cost as i paid for my second hand VW squareback. very stupidly i did not buy it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) i bought the squareback. i couldn't work out where to put a surfboard on the 912 where it wouldn't get stolen. porsches were not relatively affordable as they were in the USA at that time. the 911 was just about the most expensive car you could buy in aus right through the 60s, 70s and 80s. a new 912 was not far behind in the aussie $ stakes. second hand they had a depreciation curve like the cliffs at grand canyon. strange as it may seem - for both lotz and ferry porsche the split moniker VW-Porsche or even a fast purely badged VW that porsche got a license fee percentage on despite it being called a VW would have made reasonable sense at that time. the gamble would have been that a fast VW was going to have greater sales numbers than a slow porsche? --for the ROW of the world that is. thats my perspective as a non american. it sort of worked in some european markets (excluding the UK), they sold a lot more VW-Porsches than porsche ever sold 912s. and they certainly sold a very large amount more VW-Porsches than the type 3 karmann ghia. just not the numbers VW hoped for. the USA was a completely different story. success. i think if they called it a VW pure and simple in europe they may have feared the word would get out and affect sales in the USA? VW wanted some attachment - and legitimately too in my view. their engines were going in the car. its easy to forget that VW engines were significant in some ways that porsche 4 cylinders were not. one thing VW had done, on their own, independently of porsche was to back the bosch EFI tech. way in front of everyone else. so those engines were all important. sure you could have stuck a 912 engine in the 914. easily in europe. but not in the USA? not with pollution regs. the only way you were going to do that was with the bosch developed tech. which cost money. the engine had a part to play in europe is how i think it really went. 912s were not big sales numbers there. you had to take a slightly different approach in europe/ROW. you had to be straight up about the engine. it sort of worked. i think if they didn't have to worry about what effect it might have had on USA sales they probably would have gone with just calling the 4 a VW in ROW. and added "designed by porsche" in the sales brochure. a VW - "designed by porsche" was of course exactly what the 924 was originally going to be. no more ambiguity. 100% financed by VW as a design contract to Porsche just as the 914 was. it seems to me on the face of it, that the only version which did not work at the time was the one they tried hardest to insist was a porsche. the 6. it just didn't gell with the market. i doubt a badge would have helped its case either. lotz's suggestion of a VW 6 was not dumb. again the VW sports car (designed by porsche). it would have worked i think. i don't know about america, but down here it was that extended script across the rear of the 911s that was considered the real badge. something you saw as the car overtook you out on a country highway or sat at the lights in front of you and left you for dead when they went green. the letters across the engine lid would have been all important down here. but of course we didn't even get 914s and the few that did get here didn't have the letters. if the car had been sold down here officially there no doubt would have been endless discussion over whether it should or shouldn't have had them installed by porsche. |
bbrock |
Oct 1 2022, 07:11 PM
Post
#3
|
914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
one thing VW had done, on their own, independently of porsche was to back the bosch EFI tech. way in front of everyone else. so those engines were all important. sure you could have stuck a 912 engine in the 914. easily in europe. but not in the USA? not with pollution regs. the only way you were going to do that was with the bosch developed tech. which cost money. Interesting! I did not know this. I assumed the Type IV was developed with carburetors in mind and the Bosch FI was another of Piech's goodies he wanted to throw into the car. Is it correct that the first 912 engine was from the 356? QUOTE it seems to me on the face of it, that the only version which did not work at the time was the one they tried hardest to insist was a porsche. the 6. it just didn't gell with the market. i doubt a badge would have helped its case either. lotz's suggestion of a VW 6 was not dumb. again the VW sports car (designed by porsche). it would have worked i think. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) It was the price of the six that killed it. Porsche didn't count on having to buy the bodies from VW, but with nothing of the handshake agreement on paper, they had no choice. That drove the price of the car too close to the 911 entry fee so the 914/6 just wasn't the bargain Porsche had hoped. I'm not so sure about how successful a VW sports car (designed by Porsche) would have been in the US though. Maybe. |
wonkipop |
Oct 3 2022, 05:10 AM
Post
#4
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,624 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
one thing VW had done, on their own, independently of porsche was to back the bosch EFI tech. way in front of everyone else. so those engines were all important. sure you could have stuck a 912 engine in the 914. easily in europe. but not in the USA? not with pollution regs. the only way you were going to do that was with the bosch developed tech. which cost money. Interesting! I did not know this. I assumed the Type IV was developed with carburetors in mind and the Bosch FI was another of Piech's goodies he wanted to throw into the car. Is it correct that the first 912 engine was from the 356? QUOTE it seems to me on the face of it, that the only version which did not work at the time was the one they tried hardest to insist was a porsche. the 6. it just didn't gell with the market. i doubt a badge would have helped its case either. lotz's suggestion of a VW 6 was not dumb. again the VW sports car (designed by porsche). it would have worked i think. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) It was the price of the six that killed it. Porsche didn't count on having to buy the bodies from VW, but with nothing of the handshake agreement on paper, they had no choice. That drove the price of the car too close to the 911 entry fee so the 914/6 just wasn't the bargain Porsche had hoped. I'm not so sure about how successful a VW sports car (designed by Porsche) would have been in the US though. Maybe. yes 912 engine is 356 engine. and contrary to some stories of dubious veracity, not left over engines. they just kept making the engines and putting them into a car specifically targeted at the USA market. a price point version of the 911. a sweeter car in some ways. no the bosch EFI had nothing to do with Piech. zero. bosch offered it to VW and Mercedes Benz. Initially Benz said no and hesitated. VW did not. that is the D-Jet. it went straight into the VW fastback and beat MB by one year. due to expense it was limited mainly to the USA market. where they kind of had to have it after 1970. we did get the EFI fastbacks down here in aus, but small numbers. it was sold as the top of the range VW car. the type 4 was conceived with EFI in mind. it could run either way. but the development of D Jet is simultaneous with the type 4 engine. and also lets not forget the first L jet cars are type 4 VWs. thats when they got the cost down from the moon age daydream expense of D jet. L jet was native german brilliance. and cost effective. VW did that on their own outside porsche involvement. the reasons were obvious. they could not afford to lose power from a very modest engine in power terms due to pollution controls. and they didn't. they only lost power due to lowering compression to cope with lower octane unleaded fuel. but not due to emission control devices. Porsche were wedded to mechanical injection at first, same as Mercedes Benz and hesitated when it came to EFI. regarding cost of bodies killing porsche 914/6. maybe. i think the truth of that story is that karmann (owned by VW) charged them for the bodies just as they had commercially for 356 trimmed bodies and 912 trimmed bodies. maybe porsche expected a sweetheart deal with nordoff but lotz kept the terms of supply strictly commercial. history tends to write this as if VW screwed porsche on the deal. i actually don't think that is what happened. porsche had some other informal deal with nordhoff which may have been "at cost" rather than with overhead? unrealistiic? also despite what people say, the 914/6 was cheap enough to definitely have worked. ......if consumers wanted them. but they didn't. why. because porsche buyers are (were back then) actually conservative? the porsche buyers wanted the 911. the classic or classical car. in the end they got it right when they did away with the 6 and put in the 2.0 4 which is what they should have done right from the start? ....and just let VW build it. that idea actually did work. |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 27th September 2024 - 09:08 AM |
All rights reserved 914World.com © since 2002 |
914World.com is the fastest growing online 914 community! We have it all, classifieds, events, forums, vendors, parts, autocross, racing, technical articles, events calendar, newsletter, restoration, gallery, archives, history and more for your Porsche 914 ... |