914 Cup Proposed Rules and Classes! now is the, time to make suggestions&modifications! Options

[nebreitling]

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jan 24 2005, 07:54 PM)

The Hp to weight is fairly importan, but not the determining factor in AX. If that were the case, we'd all go home when the Z06 torque monsters showed up.

this was my thought, but i wanted someone with more AX experience to speak up.

i think that there is a point in a car's development where adding power gives you (logarhythmically) less and less gain. at some point, it comes down to driver.

hopefully, in competing with each other, this thing will give us each the initiative to get a little faster in our respective regions. that's my goal, at least.

[nebreitling]

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 24 2005, 07:50 PM)

As Demick pointed out in a related thread, any 6 that is not a original 914-6 2.0, has non stock cams. ( unless you are running them , 911t ) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) KT

correct. thanks trek/demick

if you have e.g. a 3.2 /6, then you've got non-stock cams and non-stock induction in addition to the displacement points

[Trekkor]

I don't know about my induction, however. My engine has the same carbs as a stock SIX. Weber 40 IDA 3C.

KT

[Randal]

Fun reading this discussion.

And, based upon the postings, I finally see the elements to make the perfect handicap for AX.

Power to weight ratio (formalized) handicapped against times.

It would be expensive to do and hard to control, but it would work in a perfect world.

[VegasRacer]

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 24 2005, 08:07 PM)

if you have e.g. a 3.2 /6, then you've got non-stock cams and non-stock induction in addition to the displacement points

If that's the case then you better give me 35 more points.
The FI and Cam I have are stock to the 3.0 motor, but not stock to a 914/6.
I'm not sure but my flywheel is probably lightned so add 5 more.
Make my new total 235. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

[nebreitling]

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 24 2005, 08:21 PM)

I don't know about my induction, however. My engine has the same carbs as a stock SIX. Weber 40 IDA 3C. KT

yeah. you're fine on the carbs trek.

as he noted, vegasracer adds points because his FI (and cam) is not stock to a 914/6. doesn't matter that they may be stock to a 1980 SC.

if vegasracer ran trekkor's carbs, he would not be penalized.

[nebreitling]

randal, your posts are cracking me up.

reductio ad absurdum: your car will be handed over to an engineering team to determine classing based on power, gross weight, weight distribution, tire composition analysis, in depth suspension analysis, driver's gross weight, driver's weight distribution, driver's personality (indepth psychoanalysis needed here), etc. etc.

so you might as well show up with a bicycle, you'll have the same chance.

[Dman]

I have tried to keep up with al the details in this thread and I think the biggest factor is the person behind the wheel. I am sure a good driver can make up for a 100 points in any class.

That being said, since yellow cars are always faster they should be docked at least 100 points! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

[Steve_7x]

I think 914's stand a good chance at Autocrosses vs Turbo's... especially on those that are shorter twistier... the turbo never gets a chance to spool up. The analogy of bringing a knife to a gunfight... okay a 2004 Twin Turbo is a sword... but just remember the scene in Raiders of the Lost Arc... just takes one bullit ;-)

But I digress. My suggestion was one based on a couple of things... a template that exists and was debated etc...and a form that can be used. Any of the suggestions are good by me... the point is to have fun, and benchrace... where else can grown-ups make car sounds and use their hands indicating a powerslide.

How did I get 600+points... I assumed 350 as a base...

Tires
Competitors running slicks in non-standard tire size must convert sizes and add points accordingly.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/tireinfo4calc.html

*Competitors running slicks must run in S-Mod,
at a minimum of 350 points. If the competitor's
class-points do not add up to at least 350 points,
they must nonetheless report 350 points for all
purposes of classing.

Suspension
non-stock rear springs/torsion bars +30
non-stock sway bar +30


Interior
Interior has been substantially gutted and lightened = +20
Race Seat = +10

Body/Frame
car has been lightened by replacing body panels or bumpers with non-stock parts (fiberglass, carbon fiber, etc.) = +10 per body panel (4 fenders, both hoods, both bumpers) = 80

car has been stiffened substantially by tying together suspension points (long kits are okay) = +20 - not clear on this... my roll cage ties to the front shock towers so I included

Transmission
LSD = +40

Engine/Flywheel/Exhaust/Induction/etc.

Displacement (4cyl)
2.0 = +30
Non-stock or improved Carbs* = +15
(this includes all dual carbs on T4's)

Cams (ALL CARS with internal combustion engines):*
non-stock = +20

Flywheel (All Cars):
lightened = +5

Forced Induction (All Cars):

Exhaust (All 4cyl and 6cyl):
headers: +15

= 665 points

So if I don 't baseline with 350 points for cantilever slicks... (23x9x15) - what is the correct tire baseline?

[Andyrew]

350 isnt a baseline for guys with slicks...

Its just a minumum.... IF you run slicks, your in Smod...

Your at 315 plus your tires.... So you run slicks with (god I dont know what that is... I'll guess 245's...)... and your in at +150 for slicks and +40 for tire width with an overall score of 505 (ish)

That clear that up any?

[nebreitling]

QUOTE (Steve_7x @ Jan 24 2005, 11:19 PM)

So if I don 't baseline with 350 points for cantilever slicks... (23x9x15) - what is the correct tire baseline?

no need to assume 350 as a base.

your tires should set you back 180 (150 for tire type; 30 for tire size), then add up the rest and report. but, if it all adds up to less than 350, then you must nonetheless report 350.

i'll clarify chassis stiffening.


lmao about the sword vs the bullet...

[Randal]

QUOTE

randal, your posts are cracking me up.

Glad to provide the comedy.

[Part Pricer]

Stock = 0-99 points
Improved = 100-250 points
Modified = 251-349 points
Super Modified=350+
Club ID	Class	Points
mike_the_man	Stock	60
jimtab	Stock	70
itsa914	Stock	80
Paul Heery (PCA)	Stock	80
Paul Heery (SCCA)	Stock	80
grantsfo	Stock	85
David Hildebrandt (Dave-O)	Stock	95
xsboost90	Improved	115
McMark	Improved	120
Aaron Cox	Improved	190
roundboy914	Improved	200
Dman	Improved	205
Rough_Rider	Improved	215
Dave Parsons (OttoX914) – 1	Improved	225
Demick	Improved	225
Joe Ricard	Improved	230
jdogg	Improved	235
VegasRacer	Improved	235
Andyrew	Improved	245
lagunero	Improved
trekkor	Modified	265
nathan breitling (PCA)	Modified	270
joseph222	Modified	300
bwilless	Modified
carr914	Super Modified	360
one914racer	Super Modified	360
URY914	Super Modified	375
SirAndy	Super Modified	390
Randal	Super Modified	435
r_towle	Super Modified	440
J P Stein (PCA)	Super Modified	480
J P Stein (SCCA)	Super Modified	480
Dave Parsons (OttoX914) – 2	Super Modified	490
Steve_7x	Super Modified	505
914RS	Super Modified	535
Bill Pickering (aka "nine14cats")	Super Modified	545
Doris Pickering	Super Modified	545
lapuwali
monkei
Otmar
Porsche Rescue
spare time toys

Here is the latest.

I'm going to throw a suggestion out there to see what people think. What about raising the points required for Super Modified to 400? That would move Andy and Paul with their highly-modded 4s out of the class with the big 6s. And, they could kick Trekkor's butt with his puny six. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by Paul Heery: Jan 25 2005, 08:20 AM

[roundboy914]

I'm in at 200 pts.

[Trekkor]

I like the 400 pt cutoff for MOD.

Also, A bio thread with car and driver pics and specs would be cool (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

KT

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 25 2005, 04:13 PM)

Also, A bio thread with car and driver pics and specs would be cool (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

it's in the works ...

be patient, grasshopper ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/type.gif) Andy

[Porsche Rescue]

The reason I am still a blank is that I don't yet know what I will drive this season. My "fleet" is in transition at the moment. Actually I want JP to lay awake nights worrying about the killer car I am going to buy/build to compensate for my lack of driving skill, thus allowing me to catch him. Is there a car that fast?

[Aaron Cox]

maybe i should set myself up for modified... less competition there (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[Porsche Rescue]

One little note on the car vs driver issue. At our final PCA event last fall a gentleman with more than a little experience from another region showed up with a very nice YELLOW GT3. He finished behind a fuel injected '73 2.0 914 with Hoosiers and Konis.

[nebreitling]

yeah--but what color was the 914?



aaron: do it. i'd love to beat you.