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> 914 Cup Proposed Rules and Classes! now is the, time to make suggestions&modifications!
Aaron Cox
post Jan 23 2005, 01:11 PM
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im winning the improved class already! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
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Dave-O
post Jan 23 2005, 06:00 PM
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I will speak for the Minneapolis area AXers. I'm sure Dave will chime in if i miss judged his points, I think he's busy moving into a new house.

David Hildebrandt (Dave-O)
Stock class (95 points)


Dave Parsons (OttoX914)
Improved (225 points)

We will also have at least one more 914, i'll keep you posted.

David
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T H O M A S
post Jan 23 2005, 06:13 PM
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lets goooooo
modified 360 points
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xsboost90
post Jan 23 2005, 06:40 PM
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looks like im in at 115 -improved! w/ cam/springs/swaybar
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Demick
post Jan 23 2005, 07:01 PM
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I'm in.

225 pts

Demick
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Joseph Mills
post Jan 23 2005, 07:38 PM
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Count me in on these shenanegans as well.

Put me in with Paul Heery. I'm about 80 points. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Oh, wait... no I guess I'm about 285. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
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Series9
post Jan 23 2005, 08:00 PM
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OK, I was only kidding about the 1000 points.

I just added it up and came up with 405. Might go up after some suspension improvements.
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J P Stein
post Jan 23 2005, 08:06 PM
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The ulfer says: "Yum, yum, 10 cars in Modified. I need to feed"
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chowtime.gif)
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Joseph Mills
post Jan 23 2005, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jan 23 2005, 08:06 PM)
The ulfer says: "Yum, yum, 10 cars in Modified. I need to feed"
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chowtime.gif)

Your table is waiting sir. Would you like a nice Chianti with your meal? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)



What does lower than stock gearing mean? My fifth gear is "stock". It just spins where third use to. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Shall I penalize myself another 30 points?

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)
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nebreitling
post Jan 23 2005, 08:20 PM
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although i wasn't specifically thinking about that particular mod -- i do think that counts as lower-than-stock gearing. a lower third gear is a definite advantage at AX.


but i'd like to hear others' input. perhaps 20 points is too much penalty? [edit]


ALSO, let's try not to get too attached to the current class distribution. i think there's a chance that we may raise the improved/modified boundary just a bit; or, as andrew suggested early on, that we may create a super-modified class. the purpose of either scenario would be to create as much fair competition as possible in each class.

though it's perhaps ambitious, i don't think that it's unrealistic to have 40-50 competitors in this thing. such a number would sustain 4 classes.

that said, JP -- you'll definitely be in the highest class. best bring your appetite, indeed.
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Joseph Mills
post Jan 23 2005, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 23 2005, 08:20 PM)
although i wasn't specifically thinking about that particular mod --

but i'd like to hear others' input.  perhaps 30 points is too much penalty?

Actually, it's listed at 20 points.

Still seems a lil' high to me.

Honest fellers, thang just barely works half the time. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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Joseph Mills
post Jan 23 2005, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 23 2005, 08:20 PM)
we may create a super-modified class.  the purpose of either scenario would be to create as much fair competition as possible in each class.

though it's perhaps ambitious, i don't think that it's unrealistic to have 40-50 competitors in this thing.  such a number would sustain 4 classes.

What exactly do your class points signify, other than your car classification?

Are you car class points entered as an equasion factor against your AX points within your "class"?


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)
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nebreitling
post Jan 23 2005, 08:39 PM
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i think it should at least be a 15 point penalty. you're adding torque (albeit in one gear, in your particular case). displacement moves in steps of 15 points, so i can concede that same number to gearing. other? 15pts? 20pts? 0 pts?



dudn't matter if it werks or not.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/burnout.gif)
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nebreitling
post Jan 23 2005, 08:47 PM
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in reverse order:

QUOTE
Are you car class points entered as an equasion factor against your AX points within your "class"?


No.

QUOTE
What exactly do your class points signify, other than your car classification?


only the level of development of your car -- which in turn is used for classing (stock, improved, modified) AND POSSIBLY an additional PAX-index system, where each car would take a handicap based specifically on their car's points; as a more "pure" drivers' competition.

so, if we run such an additional PAX index, it WOULD matter whether you are at 285 or 305 points -- regardless of the fact that either puts you in modified.

does this make sense?
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Trekkor
post Jan 23 2005, 09:21 PM
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Nice line up of drivers.

Why does the ULFster always have to be hungry, why?

Great job to get this off the ground. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

914 CUP is here!

KT
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VegasRacer
post Jan 23 2005, 09:46 PM
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I think 6 events is a good number to work with. Without the 914 Cup I would have entered only a few auto-crosses this year. This competition will give me a reason to go out and play a little more.

On the Tire width points - Instead of a flat 30 points for over 205's, how about xx points for tire size 2xx? Example: If you are running 225's (on the back) you would add 25 points. If you have 245's you get 45 points.

It wouldn't affect the scoring, but I would enjoy seeing what SCCA or PCA class everybody is running in.

In the 914 Club auto-X at the WCC last year, TTOD was Bill (914 cats) in the race/modified class. I was 2nd place in that class. If I remember, the top 3 guys in the improved class were faster than me. I have since sold that race car. This year I have a different car. It will be fun to see how I end up finishing in this new format.

I figure my total point are 205. That puts me in the Improved class.
Wanna make a side bet Aaron?
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Joseph Mills
post Jan 23 2005, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 23 2005, 08:47 PM)
only the level of development of your car -- which in turn is used for classing (stock, improved, modified) AND POSSIBLY an additional PAX-index system, where each car would take a handicap based specifically on their car's points; as a more "pure" drivers' competition.

so, if we run such an additional PAX index, it WOULD matter whether you are at 285 or 305 points -- regardless of the fact that either puts you in modified.

does this make sense?

Makes sense to me.

Gentlemen....Start your Engines...

Except for Otmar. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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nebreitling
post Jan 23 2005, 10:13 PM
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QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Jan 23 2005, 07:46 PM)
On the Tire width points - Instead of a flat 30 points for over 205's, how about xx points for tire size 2xx? Example: If you are running 225's (on the back) you would add 25 points. If you have 245's you get 45 points.

Okay. Two issues we need feedback on. If no feedback then the 914cup committe will decide


Issue #1
Tire Width:

proposal: instead of a flat 30 point penalty for tire sizes, we pro-rate the penalty.

(modified from suggested, i think we should leave the standard 205's unpenalized, then add 10 points per tire size).

tirewidth (for 305 and less): (2xx – 205) = penalty points
greater than 305 width = 100 penalty points.

i.e. :

205 or less = +0
215 = +10
225 = +20
235 = +30
etc....
305 or greater = +100

For those running slicks in non-standard tire size, convert sizes and place yourself.

All Tire Width penalties are based on the widest tire run on car. In other words, a competitor with 225 rear's and 215 front's will add penalties based off the 225's, i.e. 20 points.

personally, i'm in favor of this.


Issue #2
non-stock gearing

current penalty is 20 points. should this be adjusted to 15? to 30? to 0?


personally, i'm in favor of a minimum of 15 points, preferably 20.
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GaroldShaffer
post Jan 23 2005, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE
So would I be stock or Improved running adjustable Koin's, stock front & rear bar, falkens, in a 70 with a 74 2.0L with euro P&C's? I would say improved since euro P&C's. I guess that brings my points to +95.


QUOTE
i only see 80 points based on that info. tires=50 engine=30 what else is there?

if, say, you have a header, then you would be running at (essentially defining) the outer limits of stock. that's fine -- no need to penalize yourself unecessarily.

in any case, my intuition is to NOT penalize based on compression...


OK, so the euro P&C's doesn't change my displacement to more than 2.0L? If this is true then I would only be at 80 points not 95. I was thinking 50 for the falkens & 45 for the not stock 2.0L, but if the euro P&C doesn't matter then I am 80 points with the current rules.

QUOTE
proposal: instead of a flat 30 point penalty for tire sizes, we pro-rate the penalty


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

QUOTE
current penalty is 20 points. should this be adjusted to 15? to 30? to 0?


I think 15 is fair.
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nebreitling
post Jan 23 2005, 10:36 PM
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Garold: nope. displacement is still 2.0

you're at 80 -- now you've got headroom for a header!

thanks for the input, keep it coming in, folks!

n
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