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> 6 heat exchanger price point, R U in ?
6 heat exchangers price
At what price would you be in ?
2500.00 - 3000.00 [ 8 ] ** [16.00%]
2000.00 - 2500.00 [ 17 ] ** [34.00%]
1500.00 - 2000.00 [ 25 ] ** [50.00%]
Total Votes: 50
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scotty b
post Aug 31 2014, 02:02 PM
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rust free you say ?
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There is a need, and seemingly a larger group willing to shell out the money for nice S.S heat exchangers, but at what price ? I may be willing to head up contacting some of the possible suppliers but not until I have a better idea of how many are SERIOUSLY interested and at what price point. Vote in the poll, and post if you are genuinely serious. Please don't vote or post just to say it would be neat, or that you would be in for 500.00 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif). I would like some sort of numbers on hand before contacting any suppliers.

Potential suppliers would be :

Hayward and Scott

http://www.haywardandscott.com/914-6-perfo...exchangers.html

Dansk : ( if they have the tooling and interest )

http://www.jpgroup.dk/uk/danskjopex-exhausts

Original SSI builder ( if he still has the tooling/plans and interest )

I have no contact info so if anyone does please forward it

Keep in mind that Dansk and Hayward would also have to be shipped from across the pond

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=241939
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billh1963
post Sep 1 2014, 05:43 AM
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You and I both know that even at $500 the BDMF's still wouldn't have the money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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0396
post Sep 1 2014, 06:21 AM
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QUOTE(billh1963 @ Sep 1 2014, 04:43 AM) *

You and I both know that even at $500 the BDMF's still wouldn't have the money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

There's some truth to this comment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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IronHillRestorations
post Sep 1 2014, 06:32 AM
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I went through this about 15 years ago, and even sent a set of 914-6 HE's to Dansk.

Bottom line is that the tooling to do factory reproductions in SS is simply too expensive, which is why after all these years and many rumors SSI still hasn't (and won't) made 914-6 HE's.

I do not like, nor would I ever purchase or recommend the Hayward & Scott boxes, as they have exhaust tubing welds inside the heat collectors. This is an extreme health hazard, that Porsche discovered in the 60's. When I posed this question their answer was "it's never been a problem", which is totally unacceptable. FWIW this is why the heat collectors on the B&B's are so small.

Speaking of B&B, that's a fairly priced, but poorly built option. Half the time they won't or don't fit right and require a round trip back to B&B (how do you think I know this??), and the heat collectors are in adequate.

My personal conclusion was that the best option could be modifying a later style set of 911 HE's, but I don't have the capabilities or skill set to do that.

I'd be more than happy to discuss any of my research with you.
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Cairo94507
post Sep 1 2014, 06:45 AM
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Terrific Scotty. I have been trying to contact Hayward and Scott for a week now with no success. I have been using their "contact us" button on the website. I am concerned about the heater tubes in the exchangers like 9146986 mentions but want to talk to them and see what they have to say. Of course I would prefer not to pay $3K for a set of exchangers, but....
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IronHillRestorations
post Sep 1 2014, 07:00 AM
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I would expect that a set of factory quality 914-6 SS HE's would cost over $4k, due to the tooling cost.

Years ago Dansk told me they scrapped the old 914-6 HE tooling on instruction from Porsche.
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Socalandy
post Sep 1 2014, 07:37 AM
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I would order a set if they closely matched the factory ones and store my originals for safe keeping. With the surge in popularity and prices for 914's I think its more possible now for both -4 and -6 to get done but we need serious buyers!!!

We all need something soon if we want heat in ours cars for years to come!!!
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rudedude
post Sep 1 2014, 08:11 AM
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I'm in if they match closely and have the quality of the ssi i've had on my 911 for years.
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JStroud
post Sep 1 2014, 08:36 AM
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The problem is if you have an original 6 it might make sense to pay $4k+ for an exhaust with heat. But a conversion car thats only worth $15 -$20k, who would spend almost 25% of the value of the car on exhaust, won't add that much to the value, so unless you just had deep pockets and wanted heat I don't see a lot of sales to that market.

That being said what's the real market, some of the guys who own real sixes, seems kinda limited.....which is why no one has made them and probably never will, no profit.

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brant
post Sep 1 2014, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE(JStroud @ Sep 1 2014, 08:36 AM) *

The problem is if you have an original 6 it might make sense to pay $4k+ for an exhaust with heat. But a conversion car thats only worth $15 -$20k, who would spend almost 25% of the value of the car on exhaust, won't add that much to the value, so unless you just had deep pockets and wanted heat I don't see a lot of sales to that market.

That being said what's the real market, some of the guys who own real sixes, seems kinda limited.....which is why no one has made them and probably never will, no profit.



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) x10

I'm making a set for myself
this really isn't rocket science
without the stock-perfect stamped appearance there is really not that much material expense
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mepstein
post Sep 1 2014, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE(JStroud @ Sep 1 2014, 10:36 AM) *

The problem is if you have an original 6 it might make sense to pay $4k+ for an exhaust with heat. But a conversion car thats only worth $15 -$20k, who would spend almost 25% of the value of the car on exhaust, won't add that much to the value, so unless you just had deep pockets and wanted heat I don't see a lot of sales to that market.

That being said what's the real market, some of the guys who own real sixes, seems kinda limited.....which is why no one has made them and probably never will, no profit.

I want one to make my driving season longer and more comfortable. I have no concern about adding value. But if I pay $2500 for heat, it's got to work. The BB exchangers have been proven not to work.
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rick 918-S
post Sep 1 2014, 09:28 AM
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Anyone price stainless tubing lately? I'd venture to guess there would be $ 500.00 per header without the, flanges, heater boxes or labor.
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IronHillRestorations
post Sep 1 2014, 09:57 AM
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You'd also have to get the bends pre-made. You won't bend stainless tubing without some very expensive equipment.

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2014, 08:28 AM) *

Anyone price stainless tubing lately? I'd venture to guess there would be $ 500.00 per header without the, flanges, heater boxes or labor.

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bradtho
post Sep 1 2014, 10:46 AM
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My interest depends on the manufacturer. If you can get Dansk or the SSI guy to do them, then I'm in at top dollar.

I'm curious about the H&S but they've been out for some time and only 1 guy here has ever seen a set and he hasn't installed it? I'd like more info before I shell out the $$$ they're asking.

Wouldn't pay $50 for the BB's.
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rick 918-S
post Sep 1 2014, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE(9146986 @ Sep 1 2014, 10:57 AM) *

You'd also have to get the bends pre-made. You won't bend stainless tubing without some very expensive equipment.

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2014, 08:28 AM) *

Anyone price stainless tubing lately? I'd venture to guess there would be $ 500.00 per header without the, flanges, heater boxes or labor.



Ya. I buy mandrel bent stuff. It would be labor intensive build a jig off a factory set of HE's cut and tig every joint, then make a stamping for the clam shells, fit and weld them in place.

3K is not unreal at today's prices if you could get a volume order.

BTW: Just checked tubing 2-30" straights= $ 75.00
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earossi
post Sep 1 2014, 12:59 PM
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I'm just getting started in the 914 arena, and have a 3.2 in my garage that will go into my car sometime this year. So, I would be interested in proper heat exchangers. I have read quite a few of the postings, and would like to share my "cold eyes" opinion.

First off, welding technology has evolved and improved tremendously since the 60's, when Porsche was concerned about failing welds within the heat exchange boxes. Modern TIG and MIG equipment creates far superior welds then were the norm 50 years ago. So, YES, a weld in an area that could be a source of CO into the cockpit (if a weld fails) would be an issue to be concerned about. But, the probability of that occurring is extremely small. And, if a weld did fail, I doubt that anyone would succumb from the CO simply because the odor of the exhaust gases and vaporizing oil would bring tears to your eyes before you reached any state of asphyxia. Ask me how I know!

Secondly, I would venture to guess that those owners who own sixes, either original sixes or converted sixes, put very many miles on their cars. And, of the miles put on the cars, I would doubt that no more than a few would be in inclement weather. So, the life span of a set of exchangers done in carbon rather than stainless steel would probably be longer than many of our life spans. So, why opt for stainless steel which appears to be cost prohibitive? If you are concerned about the look of corrosion, you can have the entire system ceramic coated for far less than the cost of stainless.

My car is 40 years old and probably has over 200,000 miles on the chassis. But, now that it has been restored and is in my ownership, I doubt that the car will have 2000 miles a year put on it. And, am I that much different than the typical owner of a car that has been restored? So, starting out with a new set of exchangers that will probably have about 2000 miles of annual usage and little if any of that in inclement weather, I would gladly opt for a set of carbon steel exchangers that were affordable. Because, as was pointed out before, why would I want to spend $4000 on a set of exchangers to put into a car worth about $20,000?

Which brings me to what I would like to see. There are a couple of companies out there that make quality headers for the 914-6 for less than $1000 a set. So, what would be the cost to make a jig to reproduce the sheet metal clamshell cans that could be fitted to a set of headers and welded out? The clam shells could be marketed by themselves for installation by the owner or his favorite welder.

Personally, I would be willing to pay $500 for the sheet metal clam shells to install on my own exhaust headers.

Is this idea feasible? I put it out there for discussion only as an option to what appears to be an overly expensive design that most would not opt to purchase.
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Clemson
post Sep 1 2014, 01:05 PM
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I wish I had seen this thread before I purchased my B&B's.

When I was looking into heat exchangers, Brian @ RarlyL8 said he could make 914-6 heat exchangers. These are the same folks who make M&K mufflers. Her's their website:

http://www.rarelyl8.com/911-header.html
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Socalandy
post Sep 1 2014, 01:17 PM
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I wonder if our friends at Restoration Design would take on the clam shells? They do such a nice job on repro 914 sheet metal!!! I sent Pete a PM and the link to this thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
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Mark Henry
post Sep 1 2014, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE(billh1963 @ Sep 1 2014, 07:43 AM) *

You and I both know that even at $500 the BDMF's still wouldn't have the money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)


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scotty b
post Sep 1 2014, 02:00 PM
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rust free you say ?
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QUOTE(Socalandy @ Sep 1 2014, 11:17 AM) *

I wonder if our friends at Restoration Design would take on the clam shells? They do such a nice job on repro 914 sheet metal!!! I sent Pete a PM and the link to this thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

could they ? Absolutely. The problem is no one in their right minds would put out the expense to make such a part without at least twice the demand required to cover costs of tooling. 10 sets probably 'taint gonna be enough. The startup costs required to machine the dies would probably make most of us faint. IIRC Pete stated the dies fr the front trunk pan had over 80 hours in machining. To be vaguely blunt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) , there's a very good reason why RD makes more products for 356 and 911's then they do for 914's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)


Here's some reading for ya

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=145738
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