6 heat exchanger price point, R U in ? |
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6 heat exchanger price point, R U in ? |
scotty b |
Aug 31 2014, 02:02 PM
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#1
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
There is a need, and seemingly a larger group willing to shell out the money for nice S.S heat exchangers, but at what price ? I may be willing to head up contacting some of the possible suppliers but not until I have a better idea of how many are SERIOUSLY interested and at what price point. Vote in the poll, and post if you are genuinely serious. Please don't vote or post just to say it would be neat, or that you would be in for 500.00 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif). I would like some sort of numbers on hand before contacting any suppliers.
Potential suppliers would be : Hayward and Scott http://www.haywardandscott.com/914-6-perfo...exchangers.html Dansk : ( if they have the tooling and interest ) http://www.jpgroup.dk/uk/danskjopex-exhausts Original SSI builder ( if he still has the tooling/plans and interest ) I have no contact info so if anyone does please forward it Keep in mind that Dansk and Hayward would also have to be shipped from across the pond http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=241939 |
billh1963 |
Sep 1 2014, 05:43 AM
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#2
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Car Hoarder! Group: Members Posts: 3,402 Joined: 28-March 11 From: South Carolina Member No.: 12,871 Region Association: South East States |
You and I both know that even at $500 the BDMF's still wouldn't have the money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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0396 |
Sep 1 2014, 06:21 AM
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#3
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,046 Joined: 13-October 03 From: L.A. Calif Member No.: 1,245 Region Association: Southern California |
You and I both know that even at $500 the BDMF's still wouldn't have the money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) There's some truth to this comment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) |
IronHillRestorations |
Sep 1 2014, 06:32 AM
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#4
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,707 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None |
I went through this about 15 years ago, and even sent a set of 914-6 HE's to Dansk.
Bottom line is that the tooling to do factory reproductions in SS is simply too expensive, which is why after all these years and many rumors SSI still hasn't (and won't) made 914-6 HE's. I do not like, nor would I ever purchase or recommend the Hayward & Scott boxes, as they have exhaust tubing welds inside the heat collectors. This is an extreme health hazard, that Porsche discovered in the 60's. When I posed this question their answer was "it's never been a problem", which is totally unacceptable. FWIW this is why the heat collectors on the B&B's are so small. Speaking of B&B, that's a fairly priced, but poorly built option. Half the time they won't or don't fit right and require a round trip back to B&B (how do you think I know this??), and the heat collectors are in adequate. My personal conclusion was that the best option could be modifying a later style set of 911 HE's, but I don't have the capabilities or skill set to do that. I'd be more than happy to discuss any of my research with you. |
Cairo94507 |
Sep 1 2014, 06:45 AM
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#5
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 9,649 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California |
Terrific Scotty. I have been trying to contact Hayward and Scott for a week now with no success. I have been using their "contact us" button on the website. I am concerned about the heater tubes in the exchangers like 9146986 mentions but want to talk to them and see what they have to say. Of course I would prefer not to pay $3K for a set of exchangers, but....
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IronHillRestorations |
Sep 1 2014, 07:00 AM
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#6
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,707 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None |
I would expect that a set of factory quality 914-6 SS HE's would cost over $4k, due to the tooling cost.
Years ago Dansk told me they scrapped the old 914-6 HE tooling on instruction from Porsche. |
Socalandy |
Sep 1 2014, 07:37 AM
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#7
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Its got to be Yellow!!! Group: Members Posts: 2,432 Joined: 29-August 09 From: Orange Member No.: 10,742 Region Association: Southern California |
I would order a set if they closely matched the factory ones and store my originals for safe keeping. With the surge in popularity and prices for 914's I think its more possible now for both -4 and -6 to get done but we need serious buyers!!!
We all need something soon if we want heat in ours cars for years to come!!! |
rudedude |
Sep 1 2014, 08:11 AM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 508 Joined: 1-January 05 From: minneapolis, mn Member No.: 3,387 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I'm in if they match closely and have the quality of the ssi i've had on my 911 for years.
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JStroud |
Sep 1 2014, 08:36 AM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,463 Joined: 15-January 11 From: Galt, California Member No.: 12,594 Region Association: Northern California |
The problem is if you have an original 6 it might make sense to pay $4k+ for an exhaust with heat. But a conversion car thats only worth $15 -$20k, who would spend almost 25% of the value of the car on exhaust, won't add that much to the value, so unless you just had deep pockets and wanted heat I don't see a lot of sales to that market.
That being said what's the real market, some of the guys who own real sixes, seems kinda limited.....which is why no one has made them and probably never will, no profit. |
brant |
Sep 1 2014, 08:40 AM
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#10
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,584 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
The problem is if you have an original 6 it might make sense to pay $4k+ for an exhaust with heat. But a conversion car thats only worth $15 -$20k, who would spend almost 25% of the value of the car on exhaust, won't add that much to the value, so unless you just had deep pockets and wanted heat I don't see a lot of sales to that market. That being said what's the real market, some of the guys who own real sixes, seems kinda limited.....which is why no one has made them and probably never will, no profit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) x10 I'm making a set for myself this really isn't rocket science without the stock-perfect stamped appearance there is really not that much material expense |
mepstein |
Sep 1 2014, 09:06 AM
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#11
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,142 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
The problem is if you have an original 6 it might make sense to pay $4k+ for an exhaust with heat. But a conversion car thats only worth $15 -$20k, who would spend almost 25% of the value of the car on exhaust, won't add that much to the value, so unless you just had deep pockets and wanted heat I don't see a lot of sales to that market. That being said what's the real market, some of the guys who own real sixes, seems kinda limited.....which is why no one has made them and probably never will, no profit. I want one to make my driving season longer and more comfortable. I have no concern about adding value. But if I pay $2500 for heat, it's got to work. The BB exchangers have been proven not to work. |
rick 918-S |
Sep 1 2014, 09:28 AM
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#12
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,352 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region |
Anyone price stainless tubing lately? I'd venture to guess there would be $ 500.00 per header without the, flanges, heater boxes or labor.
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IronHillRestorations |
Sep 1 2014, 09:57 AM
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#13
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,707 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None |
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bradtho |
Sep 1 2014, 10:46 AM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 266 Joined: 22-December 09 From: Seattle, WA Member No.: 11,165 Region Association: None |
My interest depends on the manufacturer. If you can get Dansk or the SSI guy to do them, then I'm in at top dollar.
I'm curious about the H&S but they've been out for some time and only 1 guy here has ever seen a set and he hasn't installed it? I'd like more info before I shell out the $$$ they're asking. Wouldn't pay $50 for the BB's. |
rick 918-S |
Sep 1 2014, 11:14 AM
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#15
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,352 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region |
You'd also have to get the bends pre-made. You won't bend stainless tubing without some very expensive equipment. Anyone price stainless tubing lately? I'd venture to guess there would be $ 500.00 per header without the, flanges, heater boxes or labor. Ya. I buy mandrel bent stuff. It would be labor intensive build a jig off a factory set of HE's cut and tig every joint, then make a stamping for the clam shells, fit and weld them in place. 3K is not unreal at today's prices if you could get a volume order. BTW: Just checked tubing 2-30" straights= $ 75.00 |
earossi |
Sep 1 2014, 12:59 PM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-December 11 From: Chicago, Il Member No.: 13,878 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I'm just getting started in the 914 arena, and have a 3.2 in my garage that will go into my car sometime this year. So, I would be interested in proper heat exchangers. I have read quite a few of the postings, and would like to share my "cold eyes" opinion.
First off, welding technology has evolved and improved tremendously since the 60's, when Porsche was concerned about failing welds within the heat exchange boxes. Modern TIG and MIG equipment creates far superior welds then were the norm 50 years ago. So, YES, a weld in an area that could be a source of CO into the cockpit (if a weld fails) would be an issue to be concerned about. But, the probability of that occurring is extremely small. And, if a weld did fail, I doubt that anyone would succumb from the CO simply because the odor of the exhaust gases and vaporizing oil would bring tears to your eyes before you reached any state of asphyxia. Ask me how I know! Secondly, I would venture to guess that those owners who own sixes, either original sixes or converted sixes, put very many miles on their cars. And, of the miles put on the cars, I would doubt that no more than a few would be in inclement weather. So, the life span of a set of exchangers done in carbon rather than stainless steel would probably be longer than many of our life spans. So, why opt for stainless steel which appears to be cost prohibitive? If you are concerned about the look of corrosion, you can have the entire system ceramic coated for far less than the cost of stainless. My car is 40 years old and probably has over 200,000 miles on the chassis. But, now that it has been restored and is in my ownership, I doubt that the car will have 2000 miles a year put on it. And, am I that much different than the typical owner of a car that has been restored? So, starting out with a new set of exchangers that will probably have about 2000 miles of annual usage and little if any of that in inclement weather, I would gladly opt for a set of carbon steel exchangers that were affordable. Because, as was pointed out before, why would I want to spend $4000 on a set of exchangers to put into a car worth about $20,000? Which brings me to what I would like to see. There are a couple of companies out there that make quality headers for the 914-6 for less than $1000 a set. So, what would be the cost to make a jig to reproduce the sheet metal clamshell cans that could be fitted to a set of headers and welded out? The clam shells could be marketed by themselves for installation by the owner or his favorite welder. Personally, I would be willing to pay $500 for the sheet metal clam shells to install on my own exhaust headers. Is this idea feasible? I put it out there for discussion only as an option to what appears to be an overly expensive design that most would not opt to purchase. |
Clemson |
Sep 1 2014, 01:05 PM
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#17
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1974 914 1.8 1987 911 cab 2002 Audi S6 avant Group: Members Posts: 52 Joined: 27-April 14 From: Banner Elk, NC Member No.: 17,288 Region Association: South East States |
I wish I had seen this thread before I purchased my B&B's.
When I was looking into heat exchangers, Brian @ RarlyL8 said he could make 914-6 heat exchangers. These are the same folks who make M&K mufflers. Her's their website: http://www.rarelyl8.com/911-header.html |
Socalandy |
Sep 1 2014, 01:17 PM
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#18
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Its got to be Yellow!!! Group: Members Posts: 2,432 Joined: 29-August 09 From: Orange Member No.: 10,742 Region Association: Southern California |
I wonder if our friends at Restoration Design would take on the clam shells? They do such a nice job on repro 914 sheet metal!!! I sent Pete a PM and the link to this thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
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Mark Henry |
Sep 1 2014, 01:49 PM
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#19
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
You and I both know that even at $500 the BDMF's still wouldn't have the money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Bone Dysplasia with Medullary Fibrosarcoma Bay-Delta Modeling Forum Biology Department Microscopy Facility Backyard Death Match Federation Big Dick Mother Fucher (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) |
scotty b |
Sep 1 2014, 02:00 PM
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#20
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
I wonder if our friends at Restoration Design would take on the clam shells? They do such a nice job on repro 914 sheet metal!!! I sent Pete a PM and the link to this thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) could they ? Absolutely. The problem is no one in their right minds would put out the expense to make such a part without at least twice the demand required to cover costs of tooling. 10 sets probably 'taint gonna be enough. The startup costs required to machine the dies would probably make most of us faint. IIRC Pete stated the dies fr the front trunk pan had over 80 hours in machining. To be vaguely blunt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) , there's a very good reason why RD makes more products for 356 and 911's then they do for 914's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) Here's some reading for ya http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=145738 |
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