 74 2.0 F.I. NO spark, Ran before new battery |
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| Nemisus |
 May 17 2015, 02:14 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California  |
So I am stumped. When I took delivery of my newly acquired 74 914 the car would start up just fine with a jump box.
I went out and bought a new battery and now I have no spark... at lest from I can tell doing the simple spark tests I have done. I just did an Ohms test on my Ignition coil and here is what I got Primary: 1.4 Secondary: 10.41 Per the Pelican Technical Article I should see readings like this: primary coil winding's should give a reading of 0.3-0.6 ohms. Secondary coils should be near 600 ohms. If I understand my results I am significantly higher than where I should be? But does that mean my coil is is the cause of no spark. The only thing I changed was a busted fuel line and put in a new battery... Now the car will not start. Any ideas on where else to look? Thanks in advance Cheers Nem |
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| Dave_Darling |
May 17 2015, 03:37 PM
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#2
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California 
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Look for anything you might have bumped when changing the battery. Look for blown fuses at the relay board or in the fuse box under the dash. Look for bad connections at the battery (+) and (-) terminals.
--DD |
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| Nemisus |
May 17 2015, 04:34 PM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ May 17 2015, 02:37 PM)  Look for anything you might have bumped when changing the battery. Look for blown fuses at the relay board or in the fuse box under the dash. Look for bad connections at the battery (+) and (-) terminals. --DD Dave, Thanks for chiming in! One thing I forgot to mention was the battery has been relocated to the rear trunk. I thought that maybe I disturbed the positive connections just enough to cause a short or dead spot. For good measure I must redid the positive side connections in hopes that would do the trick. Still nothing. I just checked all the fuses under the dash and found two in a box on the drivers side just left of the engine by the firewall. Any other locations I should check? Its odd as I've got power to the Ignition Coil, I just don't have anything coming out of it to generate spark to the plugs. I read somewhere I should here a high pitch whine or squeal when I turn the key on... this lets me know that high power ignition is working. I can say for certain that I do not here such squeal. But then can't say that I have and had it running before the new battery. I am really scratching my head on this one |
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| Nemisus |
May 17 2015, 06:49 PM
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
So I decided to eliminate the possibility that the coil was the culprit... for 19$ it couldn't hurt in the process of elimination.
Not luck on getting it started though. One very odd thing I did notice is that during a test I had the key in the on position. Was poking around for shorts and hope to here the something click on... I managed to rub my arm across the new coil and was HOT.. hot enough to burn my skin. I can't imagine this is normal... should my coil be burning hot to the touch with just the key on? Could this be related to why I'm not starting? Starting to really scratch my head at this issue! |
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| flash914 |
May 17 2015, 06:52 PM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 1-January 11 From: littlerock CA Member No.: 12,554 Region Association: Southern California |
Coil wire Check the resistance.
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| Nemisus |
May 17 2015, 08:44 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
Which wire flash? The black wire providing power? What should I be looking for?
Also, is your response to why I have no spark or why the coil heated up? Thanks in advance! |
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| Dave_Darling |
May 17 2015, 08:55 PM
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#7
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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The 914 does not have a CD ignition which would whine when the power was on. Most 911s do, and the 914-6, but not the four-cylinder cars.
The hot coil is likely because your points were closed, running current through the coil while the key was on. Here's a test: Unplug the (-) wires from the coil. Hook a spark plug wire with a plug attached to the coil center terminal. Tape the plug so the outer electrodes or the threaded part is grounded. Now hook a wire to ground, touch the wire to the coil (-) terminal, then pull it away. You should get a spark from the plug. If you do, the coil is working the way it should. --DD |
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| Nemisus |
May 17 2015, 09:26 PM
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ May 17 2015, 07:55 PM) The 914 does not have a CD ignition which would whine when the power was on. Most 911s do, and the 914-6, but not the four-cylinder cars. The hot coil is likely because your points were closed, running current through the coil while the key was on. Here's a test: Unplug the (-) wires from the coil. Hook a spark plug wire with a plug attached to the coil center terminal. Tape the plug so the outer electrodes or the threaded part is grounded. Now hook a wire to ground, touch the wire to the coil (-) terminal, then pull it away. You should get a spark from the plug. If you do, the coil is working the way it should. --DD Thanks Dave, I have been reading so much Porsche literature in the past few days it is possible I was reading about the 914-6. I am betting my coil is working fine... it would be too coincidental for 2 coils to be non functional. I will try the test tomorrow if I have daylight enough. I may not have time to even look at the 914 until next weekend due to full time work and school. One test I have done is pull a plug, attach it to its plug wire and have my wife turn over the key while I ground the plug... NO spark that way. Only thing left to go through is the cap, rotor and wires and possibly the distributor. I'll be ordering a tune up kit tonight... it wont hurt at this point. Any suggestions on where to buy? Would like to stay Bosch. |
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| Nemisus |
May 18 2015, 10:19 AM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
Found a complete Bosch Tune up package for a decent price. The only thing I noticed about it is that it does not come with the rotor with built in rev limiter.
Here to waiting in anticipation that a fresh tune up makes her run again. |
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| Nemisus |
May 23 2015, 06:21 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
After changing the cap, rotor, wires, points, condenser, and plugs as well as fresh filters and oil she finally runs again. Not the greatest, but I was able to drive it. Seem to be switching back and forth between the original coil and new as it would heat up and not start.
The drive was okay... needs suspension work and possible a transmission rebuild! NO 1st gear at all. Goes into 1st well enough, but as soon as the clutch is released it grinds its self out of hear.... any ideas on that one? Is 1st gone? The best part about today is getting it started. May not be able to drive it for some time.. but its a start. |
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| JeffBowlsby |
May 23 2015, 08:34 PM
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#11
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,477 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None
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Are you anywhere near Sonoma? If so, maybe take the car over to Mark at Original Customs and have him give the car the once over.
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| Dave_Darling |
May 23 2015, 08:55 PM
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#12
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(Nemisus @ May 23 2015, 05:21 PM) NO 1st gear at all. Goes into 1st well enough, but as soon as the clutch is released it grinds its self out of hear.... any ideas on that one? Is 1st gone? It's gone. Likely due to years of chronic mis-adjusted clutch cables. It can be fixed without removing the transmission from the engine. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...anny_repair.htm --DD |
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| Nemisus |
May 23 2015, 09:57 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ May 23 2015, 07:34 PM) Are you anywhere near Sonoma? If so, maybe take the car over to Mark at Original Customs and have him give the car the once over. Actually I am not far from Sonoma at all. 30 mins maybe? I'm just off Calistoga Rd in Rincon Valley. I may have to look Mark up and get some insight. QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ May 23 2015, 07:55 PM) QUOTE(Nemisus @ May 23 2015, 05:21 PM) NO 1st gear at all. Goes into 1st well enough, but as soon as the clutch is released it grinds its self out of hear.... any ideas on that one? Is 1st gone? It's gone. Likely due to years of chronic mis-adjusted clutch cables. It can be fixed without removing the transmission from the engine. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...anny_repair.htm --DD I have still not tried manually placing the car in first.... But I have messed around with the adjustment to where I had R, 1, 2 and 3... no 4th and 5th. I might be in luck.. but I feel that this car is going to see a lot of restoration and it wouldn't hurt to have a fresh 1st gear. another quick question I have... I put a brand new set of Bosch Super Plats, properly gaped of course and I could not get it to run... Put the old NGK plugs back in it.. which are gaped at .31 and it runs pretty good. any ideas on that? Appreciate the feedback! |
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| Dave_Darling |
May 23 2015, 11:22 PM
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#14
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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QC on the Bosch Platinum plugs is... not great. I have had very similar problems with them. Back to Bosch Copper plugs, and all was well.
--DD |
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| Nemisus |
May 24 2015, 10:39 AM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
Dave,
That is disappointing news as these plugs came in a kit. I suppose this just happens. Any suggestions on a good plug? The NGK's are working, but certainly could stand to be replaced. Now that I know the 2.0 runs... and fairly well give the time it sat. I want to refresh the ignition system and fuel system. Are there any places that offer upgrades? appreciate the feedback. Cheers Nemi |
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| stugray |
May 24 2015, 11:44 AM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,824 Joined: 17-September 09 From: Longmont, CO Member No.: 10,819 Region Association: None |
Notes from my plugs research:
NGK BP6ES voted best plug for 914 (per Cap'n Krusty): http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=217463 BOSCH W7CC for carbs (then adjust heat range based on particular engine). Reputable local 914 racer says you can use the Bosch 4 prong plugs #4417 but I havent tried them yet. |
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| Spoke |
May 24 2015, 12:45 PM
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#17
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,973 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Nemisus @ May 24 2015, 12:39 PM) I want to refresh the ignition system and fuel system. Are there any places that offer upgrades? Replace the points/condenser with solid state ignition. Points/condenser are 1940's technology. Several options available; I've used Pertronix in several engines. Set 'em and forget 'em. |
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| Nemisus |
May 24 2015, 01:32 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 1-October 11 From: North Bay CA Member No.: 13,631 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(stugray @ May 24 2015, 10:44 AM) Notes from my plugs research: NGK BP6ES voted best plug for 914 (per Cap'n Krusty): http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=217463 BOSCH W7CC for carbs (then adjust heat range based on particular engine). Reputable local 914 racer says you can use the Bosch 4 prong plugs #4417 but I havent tried them yet. I am betting the NGK's I have now are what is voted best. Things runs pretty good with them for the shape the are in. Think I'll just get another set and move on from there. Thanks for the info! QUOTE(Spoke @ May 24 2015, 11:45 AM) QUOTE(Nemisus @ May 24 2015, 12:39 PM) I want to refresh the ignition system and fuel system. Are there any places that offer upgrades? Replace the points/condenser with solid state ignition. Points/condenser are 1940's technology. Several options available; I've used Pertronix in several engines. Set 'em and forget 'em. I will have to look into this! Is this a simple bolt on type upgrade? Any reputable places to buy? Thanks a million Cheers Nemi |
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| TheCabinetmaker |
May 24 2015, 02:19 PM
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#19
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
The cap'n will also tell you (and I agree), if you go to pertronics carry a set of old technology points and condenser and the tools to change them with on the side of the road. I changed to a pertronics way back when they were new technology. They left me stranded on the side of the road. I can install 10 sets of points for the price of the pertronics. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, just arming you with all the facts so you can make an informed decision.
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| RenoRoger |
May 24 2015, 02:42 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 11-November 10 From: Reno, NV Member No.: 12,370 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(The Cabinetmaker @ May 24 2015, 01:19 PM) The cap'n will also tell you (and I agree), if you go to pertronics carry a set of old technology points and condenser and the tools to change them with on the side of the road. I changed to a pertronics way back when they were new technology. They left me stranded on the side of the road. I can install 10 sets of points for the price of the pertronics. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, just arming you with all the facts so you can make an informed decision. I SECOND the above. I have had a couple of Pertronics units fail on me. Sometimes they fail slowly and sometimes suddenly. Be prepared to walk home. |
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