Re-clipped car and VIN number Options

[ThePaintedMan]

So this weekend did not turn out well for one of our members Shane (JetsetSurfShop). We ran his awesome car at the 14 Hours of Sebring and unfortunately a driver suffered and off which bent the front of the car in pretty bad. In my opinion, the simplest, most cost effective fix is to replace the front clip with that of another car. Luckily there are several options nearby.

I know that Shane has not thought that far ahead yet and I'm sure he is still very upset about this weekend. But though I didn't drive the car, he's a good friend of mine, and I'd like to help him get it back on the road. The question is, when a clip is changed on a car, is this the one and only time it is then acceptable to cut out the old VIN and swap it to remain with the chassis? Or is the acceptable practice to retain the vin stamped fender with the new front clip on the old chassis?

[Cairo94507]

Wow- so sorry to see that picture. IMHO, for what that is worth, it is never acceptable to cut out and replace a VIN number into a clip being welded on. Though your motivation might be solid gold, no issues at all re ethics, etc., it is always a couple sellers down the road where it all of a sudden is not mentioned and someone ends up with a clipped car with the original cars VIN welded in and someone will take a hit.

Now, if this is a dedicated race car, and the cars log book contains all of this documented to the last detail including damage, repair and VIN replacement photos, perhaps that is easier to accept. But then I would ask, what is the need to swap out the VIN? Another option might be to weld in the old VIN next to the new clip VIN, just thinking out loud here....

In the end, I just do not want to see a future buyer end up with a big surprise when they are working on the car.

[r_towle]

Sorry, never acceptable but spend a bit more and retain the stock inner fender

[mb911]

I always find this interesting as in the mustang and camaro world where you can buy body's in white it is acceptable.. I do agree it needs to be documented but also realize that it happens on the legit side often as well..

[SirAndy]

I would try to put it on a Celette bench and pull it ...
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[Chris914n6]

Just weld the VIN on top of the replacement clip VIN plate. That way the question gets asked and answered.

[GermermanCarGuy]

Just weld the VIN on top of the replacement clip VIN plate. That way the question gets asked and answered.

Um, no. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[rgalla9146]

Make the repair forward of the stamped VIN ?

[Mikey914]

Honestly looks like the vin stamp may not be affected, or much. The metal can be reached worked if necessary, but may not be a huge job.

[Cracker]

George - Bummer. I too believe that can be "fixed" and the VIN question becomes a non-issue. It is a race car - it doesn't have to be perfect - shed a few pounds in the process and your ahead of the game. This is the reality (potential) for anyone who tracks their car in any venue/event - especially so in ChumpCar.

Tony

[ThePaintedMan]

Yup, good responses here folks. I am honestly asking out of complete ignorance - never got that far into something like this before.

I wasn't able to get pictures of the inner fenders at the track, but the passenger one is pushed back with a good 2-3 inches of "foldover" and the rear of the control arm mount has been torn from the body. The driver side isn't much better. It does seem possible that the fender can be straightened but my initial thought was that it would be easier to just cut those spot welds and do the whole clip at once.

Indeed I would never want to deceive someone about the history of a car. Anyone who would buy a track car down the road would probably expect some prior damage, but the physical evidence of a major change like that shouldn't be hidden from the buyer. I know Shane would never do that. But the guy who bought it from that guy may not be given that same narrative, so I can see the point of retaining the swapped vin number along with the other photographic documentation.

I hope that my post didn't come across as deceptive. Just want to help this guy make it right and do it "right".

If there is any positive, it was really interesting to see how the fronts of these cars deform in an impact as comprehensive as this one. For such a seemingly flimsy front end, you can see how it all works together to keep the driver safe. The DS wasn't hit nearly as bad as the passenger, but it shared a good brunt of the deformation, dissipating energy along the way. It's the price we pay for thin sheet metal, but it's also why these cars are so light and run circles around the bigger BMWs and Mustangs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[cary]

I would try to put it on a Celette bench and pull it ...
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I'm with Andy. See if it can be pulled out first.
All three of the rally cars I'm working on have had some sort of front end damage or poor repair. Car #1 just got back from the rack and it was a 964 with about the same damage.

[FourBlades]

That is a total bummer!

My wife and I were wondering how the race went.

I happen to have left and right fenders cut off in the middle of the wheel arch forward. You would have to decide if that was enough metal to work with.

I also have a decent but not perfect front panel.

I have one headlight bucket.

I would be happy to donate them to the project (i.e. get them out of my garage finally).

I would try to fix it like people are saying, it will be stronger than clipping it in the end.

John

[SixerJ]

I always find this interesting as in the mustang and camaro world where you can buy body's in white it is acceptable.. I do agree it needs to be documented but also realize that it happens on the legit side often as well..

Indeed I have wondered the same thing about how much DNA exists for re-shelled BMC cars, no welded in tags, just pop rivets. New shells available for MGs and Minis. Not the same car in my book. Sorry for the hijack

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/products.htm

[SirAndy]

Just want to help this guy make it right and do it "right".

Like i said above, i've seen much worse pulled back into spec.

You'll still have to replace a whole lot of mangled sheetmetal but as long as you can get the suspension pickup points back to where they should be, you'll be fine.

No need to clip anything.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[boogie_man]

I would try to put it on a Celette bench and pull it ...
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^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^

[ThePaintedMan]

Gotcha, thanks guys. It would indeed be really cool to see/participate in a Celette pull. However, I don't think we have any in Florida. I think the closest would be Scotty B in VA, which would certainly be a worthwhile person to repair this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

The most cost-effective would probably be to clip it with a local donor car, but perhaps Shane wouldn't mind a trip to VA. I'd happily tag along, if nothing else to see the inside of Kahiko Customs!

[SirAndy]

Gotcha, thanks guys. It would indeed be really cool to see/participate in a Celette pull. However, I don't think we have any in Florida. I think the closest would be Scotty B in VA, which would certainly be a worthwhile person to repair this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

I bet there are plenty of Celette benches in Florida.

You rent the fixtures for the car from Celette anyways, and they deliver them to your door.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[carr914]

Gotcha, thanks guys. It would indeed be really cool to see/participate in a Celette pull. However, I don't think we have any in Florida. I think the closest would be Scotty B in VA, which would certainly be a worthwhile person to repair this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

I bet there are plenty of Celette benches in Florida.

You rent the fixtures for the car from Celette anyways, and they deliver them to your door.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Rick's European in Largo has a Celette

I think Superior Auto Body in Pinellas Park has one too

Both are Porsche oriented shops

[Jetsetsurfshop]

George is right. It hasn't really sank in that my car is all banged up. Fell so bad that George didn't get a chance to drive. I'll make it up to you.
Heard from a few members already donating some parts. That was really nice of Lorin and John. I haven't even assessed the damage and fellow members are already trying to help out, pretty cool.
I'll post a few pictures of the damage. It sounds like we need that bench thing. FYI, the driver only hurt his ego. Said the Hans system that chump requires us to where was put to the test. He's also going to make it right. He's a good guy.