New member - introduction and questions... Options

[pugface]

Hi guys

New member here, figured I should introduce myself, as I may be asking lots of questions!

I've wanted a 914 since seeing one of the college kids driving one when I was in high school - in the 80's. Unfortunately, living in the salty Midwest, I don't think I saw another one in person since the 80's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've also always wanted to learn more about how to fix and restore cars. And, I have a son in middle school that hopefully can learn a little as well.

Like most of you, my budget is NOT unlimited (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) so I was looking for a car that needed some work, but not too much. And a price to reflect that. I found and bought something this month that seemingly fit the bill - a project, but one that starts, shifts, and stops. all pieces (and more) there, if not all the same color. A 1973 1.7 retaining its D-Jetronic, and NO rust. Well, pretty much no rust...

So, as to the problems, when I bought I was told it won't idle once it warms up. He thought it needed the timing set. From what I can tell, it is running very rich. The oil level was high, when I changed it, it smelled of gas. Car ran well enough for me to drive it a few miles around 'the block', but I wouldn't want to go any further than that.

So, with 914world as a resource, I found many things to check. But, I must admit that I am a novice at this - so to check fuel pressure, I ordered a simple fuel pressure tester kit from Amazon. But this is the first time I have attempted this, so I worry I am doing it wrong?

I hooked up the fuel pressure gauge to the test point on the fuel rail between 1 & 2 with a clamp. When I turn the key, and the pump fires for a bit, it runs right up to 30 psi. I then disconnected the coil wire and cranked the engine per Haynes. The gauge jumped to 70 psi! Do I have it hooked up right?

Of course, if my fuel pressure is that far off, it would explain a lot of the poor running. Adjusting the regulator per Haynes made little difference, so either my test is wrong, or the regulator is blown.

Now, when I got the car, I also inherited two other 914's worth of stripped parts to various degress. I loooked through the boxes and found a second regulator, but it looked pretty sad and crusty. I installed it just to see what would happen. This time, I crank the engine, and fuel goes everywhere.

My cheap Amazon fuel pressure kit came with some hose I used to splice in - that hose ruptured! WTF. I'll go into twon this week and find some high-pressure fuel hose - in the meantime, does it sound like I had the gauge in the right place? If so, I'll order a new regulator and give it a try next weekend.

Thanks
pf

Oh, wait, you guys are going to do the THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS... thing, aren't you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Here's a pic - long way to go

[ndfrigi]

welcome to 914world and sickness with this toy! well sir you have a very good starting project! and yes the 70psi fuel pressure doubled the standard 30 average psi for an FI 914-4.

[mramber]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

The rust thing is a big deal, keep looking because you will find it. Look in the longs, the floor pans and behind the firewall pad if it is still there. I'm like you, I wanted a 914 since I was a kid and 5 years ago I finally got mine. It's a labor of love and sometimes frustration. Take it a piece at a time.

[mtndawg]

"Like most of you, my budget is NOT unlimited"

Who here has an unlimited budget?

Looks pretty good, I'd like to see the longs and engine.

[pugface]

Thanks guys!

Engine is dirty, longs looks good, light surface rust in the passenger side long, but really, amazingly little rust

There was some rust at some point (in hellhole and other spots), but for better or worse, it has been cut out and replaced by an amateur body-man. Not the worst repair job, but certainly not seamless (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I was really so focused on avoiding rust that I didn't look as close as I should have on the quality of 'rust repair' - oh well, lesson learned.

I figure a solid car to work on, I don't have to feel guilty about messing with it. It has already been repainted (insides are Marathon Blue, outside it looks Ivory, but there are also some replacement panels in yellow and blue! ), so if we do a color change, we aren't making anything worse. I'd like to get my son involved. He has interest in helping, but I can't see him doing a lot of wrenching. But he is already a better painter than me, I'd like to see him get this car back down to one color (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Blue6]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) remember these are driver projects. Take your time and invest when you can.....

[McLovin]

If you have some debris in your fuel line, or our fuel line is crimped, or otherwise restricted for some reason, like maybe the rubber is breaking down (where you have rubber), then it's like having high blood pressure due to narrowed arteries in your body. You can't adjust that out with the pressure regulator because the pressure is not caused by the regulator itself....in other words....you could probably even remove the regulator itself and you'd still have high pressure. It might even be in the return line.

So try unhooking all of it and blowing through the line to see if the line is as clear as you think it is. Replace all rubber lines, and clogged filters. Make sure lines are proper diameter.

This all assumes you're getting an accurate reading from your pressure gauge in the first place.

[falcor75]

I had a kink in the return line under the tank (newly installed hose) and the pressure buildup would not let the regulator work as intended.

The cheap way of testing this is to buy 6 feet of 8 mm fuel hose, connect it to the outlet of the regulator and run the other end into a fuel can or whatever you have that will collect the fuel for you in a safe manner.

Then bypass the fuel pump relay and check the pressure again. With the regulator passing the fuel into the cannister you should see a normal fuel pressure if the problem lays with the return line.

[Cairo94507]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Looks like a nice starting point. Don't get overwhelmed with issues. Tackle them one at a time and try to keep it off jack stands for now.

I believe a good approach is to first assess the condition of the chassis- rust- to determine the extent of rust you will need to deal with. Then I look at electrical issues to make sure you don't end up with an electrical fire. Fuel system gets overhauled before you try to drive the car, because to many 914s have burned up from cracked fuel lines. Then brakes and general maintenance items like a complete tune-up, valve adjust, etc. Finally, tires if they are just old and cracked. Cosmetics is the last thing to play with. Have fun and cheers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Shadowfax]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) from Louisiana
There is another member here from Boerne. I've bought a few parts from him. Real nice guy who is willing to share his knowledge.

[Dave_Darling]

The high fuel pressure almost certainly means that the return is somehow blocked. It could be blocked by a collapsed line, or (more likely IMHO) something like the fuel pressure regulator being plumbed backwards. IIRC, I made an early version of my hose diagram that showed the incorrect plumbing on that, and a number of people have used that to their detriment.

--DD

[pugface]

Is this the diagram?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/technical_...4_20FI_diag.htm

Another member in Boerne? I'll have to keep an eye out - it's a fairly small town

I'll go and check all the fuel lines this weekend, and see if there are any problems.

The PO had actually started fixing in the order Cairo 94507 suggested - the fuel lines are new, new brake lines, new vacuum hoses, some minor rust removal already done.

Thanks!
pf

[pugface]

So, I'm waiting for my magnetic spark plug sockets to get here (other post) to continue work, I thought I'd do a visual check of the fuel lines as you guys suggest

I don't really see anything - I have new lines from the PO, not necessarily stock. The one thing I notice is a tight radius from the rail to the return line. I took a picture to ask about it here, and upon inspecting it by hand, it is kinked!

Looks like that's the problem, now to fix...

[pugface]

Wait, if that is coming off the passenger fuel rail, then something is odd here

That would mean that the kink is before the tester, and that fuel pressure should be low, right?

Or that the lines are backwards, in which case the regulator is hooked up backwards?

[Cracker]

Welcome. Drove through Boerne with family in tow last Summer - nice place to call home. Good luck on the teener...

Tony

[JeffBowlsby]

Look up Mark Heard here, great guy and knows 914s well. He is in Boerne. screen name is 914sixer.

[ndfrigi]

So, I'm waiting for my magnetic spark plug sockets to get here (other post) to continue work, I thought I'd do a visual check of the fuel lines as you guys suggest

I don't really see anything - I have new lines from the PO, not necessarily stock. The one thing I notice is a tight radius from the rail to the return line. I took a picture to ask about it here, and upon inspecting it by hand, it is kinked!

Looks like that's the problem, now to fix...

the picture looks like a rubber fuel line supply from fuel pump to injector fuel rail (rear passenger - # 3 & 4 injector).

[pugface]

I had a kink in the return line under the tank (newly installed hose) and the pressure buildup would not let the regulator work as intended.

The cheap way of testing this is to buy 6 feet of 8 mm fuel hose, connect it to the outlet of the regulator and run the other end into a fuel can or whatever you have that will collect the fuel for you in a safe manner.

Then bypass the fuel pump relay and check the pressure again. With the regulator passing the fuel into the cannister you should see a normal fuel pressure if the problem lays with the return line.

Thanks - I tried this today. I bypassed the relay by jumping pins 30 and 87. Dumping into a gas can instead of the stainless return lines, I get a normal ~30 psi.

Looks like I have a kink somewhere downstream - I'll back it on ramps and investigate underneath.

[ndfrigi]

I had a kink in the return line under the tank (newly installed hose) and the pressure buildup would not let the regulator work as intended.

The cheap way of testing this is to buy 6 feet of 8 mm fuel hose, connect it to the outlet of the regulator and run the other end into a fuel can or whatever you have that will collect the fuel for you in a safe manner.

Then bypass the fuel pump relay and check the pressure again. With the regulator passing the fuel into the cannister you should see a normal fuel pressure if the problem lays with the return line.

Thanks - I tried this today. I bypassed the relay by jumping pins 30 and 87. Dumping into a gas can instead of the stainless return lines, I get a normal ~30 psi.

Looks like I have a kink somewhere downstream - I'll back it on ramps and investigate underneath.

do you have the 3 port fuel pump? maybe it has some issue with it?
maybe you can remove the rubber fuel before ss engine fuel line and also check if it will drain fuel from from tank return line.

[pugface]

So, I traced it back to the fuel tank. The Previous Owner had replaced all the fuel lines, and when he put the gas tank bank in, it kinked the return line.

I drained and pulled the tank, and sort of carefully re-seated the line so it doesn't kink while installing the tank.

I measured around 30 psi now with fuel pump running. I bolted everything back up, and double checked the pressure - 30 psi with pump running (but engine not on)

I started the car and it seemed to run much better, but as it warmed up, it started getting worse. While the engine was running I saw the fuel pressure needle moving a bit erratically, and then after a few minutes, it was lowering. I was trying to adjust the regulator to keep up, but I don't think that is the issue.

At the end, it was running under 20 psi with the engine on. I turned the car off, and checked it by jumping the relay, and with engine off, I have a steady 30 psi

Let me guess - I ended up kinking the other line under the tank while being so careful with the first one? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Or, perhaps a problem that has been there the whole time, just masked by the high fuel pressure so I didn't notice before.