 914 Body In White, chassis fixtures being made |
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| Andyrew |
 Aug 2 2018, 08:02 PM
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#41
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Spooling.... Please wait  Group: Members Posts: 13,377 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California 
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Must had been another guy that I remember.
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| McMark |
Aug 3 2018, 02:02 PM
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#42
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)
They're HERE!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/monkeydance.gif) I have to finish up a 2.3 engine I'm building next week, but you can be sure I'll be playing with these after hours. Already have my Aubergine car up on the bench, so I'm gonna check that first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) Attached thumbnail(s) 
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| SirAndy |
Aug 3 2018, 02:09 PM
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#43
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,890 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
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| IronHillRestorations |
Aug 3 2018, 02:16 PM
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#44
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,776 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None
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Beeyooteeful!
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| peteyd |
Aug 3 2018, 05:52 PM
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#45
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 730 Joined: 27-March 08 From: Elora, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 8,858 Region Association: Canada |
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| rick 918-S |
Aug 14 2018, 11:24 AM
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#46
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,783 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region 
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Nice going Mark and Andy! Thanks for getting the hard work getting these to the market Peter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)
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| seanery |
Aug 15 2018, 12:53 AM
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#47
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waiting to rebuild whitey! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 15,854 Joined: 7-January 03 From: Indy Member No.: 100 Region Association: None |
pretty bad ass Mark!
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| ConeDodger |
Aug 15 2018, 01:03 AM
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#48
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,823 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(seanery @ Aug 15 2018, 03:53 AM)  pretty bad ass Mark! Say... didn’t you run off and join the circus? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Oct 23 2018, 02:42 PM
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#49
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,890 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
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| seanery |
Oct 23 2018, 03:48 PM
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#50
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waiting to rebuild whitey! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 15,854 Joined: 7-January 03 From: Indy Member No.: 100 Region Association: None |
Man, that sure was a long time ago!!
12 years later, I've been missing my 914 fix. I've been touring with concerts and other shows pretty much constantly since then. I need to plan for the future. Getting Eric to build me a car is part of that plan! =) QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Aug 15 2018, 03:03 AM) QUOTE(seanery @ Aug 15 2018, 03:53 AM) pretty bad ass Mark! Say... didn’t you run off and join the circus? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) |
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| Andyrew |
Oct 23 2018, 08:11 PM
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#51
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,377 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Oct 23 2018, 01:42 PM) I don't like the looks of this..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Oct 24 2018, 12:36 AM
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#52
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,890 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 23 2018, 07:11 PM) QUOTE(SirAndy @ Oct 23 2018, 01:42 PM) I don't like the looks of this..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) I'll let @McMark chime in if he wants to, lets just say there have been a few "issues" with those fixtures, which has in turn significantly slowed progress on my /6 build ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) |
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| Cairo94507 |
Oct 24 2018, 06:54 AM
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#53
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 10,092 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California
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I am fully aware of the delays and setbacks that happen when you tackle one of these builds. Of course having to do doing something over (twice) is problematic for progress too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)
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| McMark |
Nov 5 2018, 07:30 AM
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#54
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Sorry guys, it's been a crazy few months. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) But here's what I've learned since my last post.
Celette has nearly no real support for the 914. The only fully developed fixtures died when they released the MZ Tower setup. There are now only two 914 fixture sets in the Celette inventory: 1 in the US and 1 in Europe. I've seen the US set firsthand and I've seen a copy of the Euro set, and neither set is 100% correct. This is what I was told when I inquired about ordering an official set for purchase. QUOTE "I put out a request for the Porsche 914 fixtures 2131.300, but the team in France notified me that [the US rental fixture set] was only a prototype and was never finished. I asked them what I had to offer you and at this time there is nothing I can offer for sale. So I rented the US set and have it here now. I've attached my Aubergine car and everything seemed to line up really well -- until I got to the shock towers. And it took me awhile to confidently decide that this set is incorrect in the shock tower fixtures. The definitive evidence was that the official US fixture set was indicating that my Aubergine car was essentially perfectly straight at the front A-arm mounts, rear A-arm mounts, rear trailing arm mounts (inner and outer), transmission mounts, BUT the front shock tower needed to go up by 6.5mm and the rear needed to go down by a whopping 16mm. These numbers are HUGE considering that ALL the other fixtures line up and this chassis shows no signs of accident damage. And finally, simply consider what sort of accident it would take to move ONLY the two front shock towers down 1/4" and the rears up over 1/2" without affecting the rest of the suspension alignment. It's impossible. SO ANYONE WHO HAS ANY SHOP THAT RENTS THE 914 CELETTE FIXTURES MUST BE AWARE THAT THESE FOUR FIXTURES ARE INCORRECT AND SHOULD NOT BE USED. After all of this roundabout effort and research, I've decided that the only way I can be confident in my Celette bench and fixtures is to build a set myself. I'm using the official US fixture set and my Aubergine car to make my set. I will be using modern technology to document each piece. Each fixture will be made up of multiple smaller pieces which I will have laser cut. Once I have all the building block parts, I'll remove fixtures one by one and assemble the component parts on the bench, in place. I'll then confirm accuracy of my piece before moving on to the next piece. When everything else is done I will document the shock tower fixtures as they are, before making the modifications necessary to make them correct. I know other people are taking a similar approach. This is certainly not how I, or anyone else, thought this process was going to go. There were a lot of hopeful progress, but in the end these fixtures are too critical for me to accept anything that isn't quite right. In order for me to be fully confident in my work, I need to be fully confident in my fixtures. So I have to make my own, and I have to like how they turn out, before I can move on to Andy's car. |
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| Cairo94507 |
Nov 5 2018, 07:56 AM
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#55
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 10,092 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California
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Truly a class act. Andy's car is in good hands and all members in the future will benefit from your hard work and attention to detail if/when the time/need comes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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| Krieger |
Nov 5 2018, 08:34 AM
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#56
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,763 Joined: 24-May 04 From: Santa Rosa CA Member No.: 2,104 Region Association: None
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Good work Mark! What a pain. Maybe you could make your own sets to sell/rent. Maybe just the two defective ones?
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| rick 918-S |
Nov 5 2018, 05:48 PM
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#57
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,783 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region
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Nice research Mark. Guess I am back to building a set too then. I have a rust free straight car to work off of too. Really in most cases a guy doesn't need heavy fixtures designed for withstanding the pulling forces of a collision repair. Most of what we do is related to rust repair and withstanding the pulling forces of a welding process. We all know how our chassis can move around while welding.
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| mepstein |
Nov 5 2018, 06:01 PM
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#58
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,592 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Wouldn’t the front towers be the same as the 911 fixtures.
Can you modify the existing fixtures rather than making new ones. |
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| McMark |
Nov 6 2018, 07:09 AM
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#59
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 5 2018, 06:48 PM) Nice research Mark. Guess I am back to building a set too then. I have a rust free straight car to work off of too. Really in most cases a guy doesn't need heavy fixtures designed for withstanding the pulling forces of a collision repair. Most of what we do is related to rust repair and withstanding the pulling forces of a welding process. We all know how our chassis can move around while welding. Well, once I build mine and use them I was planning to just ship/bring everything your way. The MZ Towers make building these fixtures relatively easy. But building fixtures from scratch would be a larger endeavor. I know you're certainly up to the task, but just borrow mine when I'm done. QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 5 2018, 07:01 PM) Wouldn’t the front towers be the same as the 911 fixtures. Can you modify the existing fixtures rather than making new ones. Well, remember these aren't made by Porsche people. So unfortunately, the answer is no. The setup is approached differently (see pics below), and there's no reason to expect that the 'neutral' position of the chassis, over the bench, is the same height or fore/aft location. In fact, just looking at the Celette diagrams I can tell that the 911 chassis will sit closer to the bench than a 914 chassis, which means nothing will interchange. 911 Front Shock Tower  914 Front Shock Tower  |
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| rick 918-S |
Nov 6 2018, 07:24 AM
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#60
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,783 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region
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QUOTE(McMark @ Nov 6 2018, 08:09 AM) QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 5 2018, 06:48 PM) Nice research Mark. Guess I am back to building a set too then. I have a rust free straight car to work off of too. Really in most cases a guy doesn't need heavy fixtures designed for withstanding the pulling forces of a collision repair. Most of what we do is related to rust repair and withstanding the pulling forces of a welding process. We all know how our chassis can move around while welding. Well, once I build mine and use them I was planning to just ship/bring everything your way. The MZ Towers make building these fixtures relatively easy. But building fixtures from scratch would be a larger endeavor. I know you're certainly up to the task, but just borrow mine when I'm done. Cool, I have rent money waiting. I will be laid up for awhile anyway. Gettin my own fixture installed the end of the month. LMK your projected time line. I have Juergen's car disassembled and ready to bench. BTW: Need my windshield jig? I can send it to you. |
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