Do bumblebees sting?, My experience with John Forbes and his "Speed and Custom Shop" Options

[SirAndy]

Do bumblebees sting?

No, they bite ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[iankarr]

You're a better man than me Ian for the restraint you showed in posting this. I would have been downright hostile.

Time for Black Forest Racing to make reparations and pull themselves out of the Scumbag Hall of Fame.

Oh, believe me, I had my hostile moments. But since this post is meant to be a warning to future victims, I wanted to make sure it was as objective as possible. Every business has unhappy customers at some point and it's easy to discount anger. A factual retelling is tougher to ignore. Especially with pics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)!

[BeatNavy]

Well done, Ian. It's a fine line between doing public service and airing a vendor's dirty laundry unfairly. I think you navigated it nicely.

[Eric_Shea]

Similar experience with my 2.5 engine that was a Black Forest build. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Calipers are on the house for this car to help make up for your losses.

[Porschef]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mepstein]

From what I hear, this has been going on for years. Just like Motor Meister, guys in this industry seem to be able to operate on this level and not much ever happens. Just like the 914 shop in Virginia where Cairo and I got scammed, they do some easy work for friends who then defend them while they are pushing out crap to the paying customers.

I met John at octeenerfest. He’s a great guy to sit around with in the evening and listen to stories. He knows all the other Porsche guys that have been around forever. But he’s scamming people out of a lot of money. If he’s not doing it purposely, he’s obviously incompetent to run a business and take peoples money.

[Unobtanium-inc]

From what I hear, this has been going on for years. Just like Motor Meister, guys in this industry seem to be able to operate on this level and not much ever happens. Just like the 914 shop in Virginia where Cairo and I got scammed, they do some easy work for friends who then defend them while they are pushing out crap to the paying customers.

I met John at octeenerfest. He’s a great guy to sit around with in the evening and listen to stories. He knows all the other Porsche guys that have been around forever. But he’s scamming people out of a lot of money. If he’s not doing it purposely, he’s obviously incompetent to run a business and take peoples money.

Places like Motor Meister operate on the inherent cheapness of the public. I often say don't say the words cheap and Porsche in the same sentence, because they don't go together but guys will always chase the price over quality. I get that all the time, a guy calls me for a part, I pull a nice original part at a decent price, he tells me he has found a part cheaper and asks me to match the price, I decline, he buys the other part, finds out he got ripped off on a crappy used repro part and comes back for the real one. I don't think that is what happened here, I don't think the original poster was chasing price, but that's how places like Motor Meister operated for so long. Quality costs money.

[eric9144]

From what I hear, this has been going on for years. Just like Motor Meister, guys in this industry seem to be able to operate on this level and not much ever happens.

Totally agree and I think it's also because pre-internet it was hard for the word to get out about it, and people beat themselves up and feel as though they should have been "smarter" about things. No one wants to feel like a dummy who who got scammed, in hindsight we always look back and see that there were signs.

This is a public service announcement and we all thank you for it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[CodyBFR]

Hey everybody, I was just made aware of this thread and something here needs to be cleared up. This has **NOTHING** to do with Black Forest Racing. The John Forbes in question here was fired from Black Forest Racing in 2017. This transaction was with him and his new business, John's Speed and Custom which operates next door to us. Issues like these are why I could not have him around anymore.

I feel for you, and I'm terribly sorry this happened, but I cannot have my business slandered. Black Forest Racing has **NOT** been involved in any restoration/paint work of any 914 since 2016. We do mostly newer cars, but I am a 914 fan (I inherited my mothers Bumblebee when she passed in 2002 and still have it) so I do still take in one from time to time for mechanical work.

John owned BFR from 1979-2014 and as such his name is deeply associated. 95% of customers were happy during those 35 years, but as John got older he started taking more and more shortcuts to make up for his declining health. This came to a head 5 years ago and got to a point where I couldn't keep him around any longer. Unfortunately, he rented a bay next to us which I can't control and this leads people to believe he is still associated with us, but he is not.

-John Cody Forbes (I go by Cody)

[914_7T3]

Just so I follow.....You fired your Dad, who founded the company who also happens to occupy the bay next door in an unaffiliated Porsche business. Furthermore, you also claim to have no association with him. That's gonna be a tough sell.....IMHO.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[CodyBFR]

I feel your pain. John's shop used to be Black Forest Racing in Delray beach Fl.
In 2001, I bought a really nice Irish Green 914-6 from a guy in Miami.
He told me to call John to ask about the mechanicals. I let John talk me into building me one of his famous 2.2 L engines. What a fiasco!. His little boy mechanic installed two different cams in it.
<snip>
One lesson I have learned is not to take the car to someone who, races and hires relatives and his loadie friends to work for him.

You have some facts wrong. I'm John's only son, and I never built any 911 engines when the shop was in Florida... I was a teenager when I moved to Kernersville NC about a year before my father moved to Charlotte. I worked at a Porsche/VW/Audi/BMW shop in Winston-Salem for about 5 years before then moving to Charlotte where I ran a exotic shop working on McLarens, Ferraris, Maserati, Porsche, etc. I left there to take over BFR in 2014.

[CodyBFR]

Just so I follow.....So you fired your Dad, who founded the company who also happens to occupy the bay next door in an unaffiliated Porsche business. Furthermore, you also claim to have no association with him. That's gonna be a tough sell.....IMHO


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I dunno how I can make it any clearer than that, thats the deal.

Scroll through our Instagram and look for pictures of any 914's being restored, the most recent is in 2016:
https://www.instagram.com/blackforestracing/

Theres a few 914 race cars in there, but thats it in recent history. Certainly not in the time frame this guy is talking about.

Send an email to john@blackforestracing.com and tell me what the auto-reply says. Look for the Facebook post from April 12th 2017 making the announcement.

Yes, I do still see my father on a personal basis, but I do not have ANY business association with him. He has cost me far, FAR, too much money.

[naro914]

Hi all,
I can personally vouch for Cody here. Some of you that have known me for a long time know of the issues I had with John Forbes through the years. I went MANY years without even talking to him I was so pissed off at him. Cody was not around then - he was working at other places including GMP Performance (for those that know the Charlotte area). A few years back, he came to take over Black Forest Racing from John... and YES, he fired John. Not that John was actually working on anything at the time, but yes, he was told to not work with the business and Cody any more. Yes, they are right next door to each other (that in itself is a novel of a book to disucss over beers) but John does whatever he's doing, and Cody runs Black Forest Racing. In fact, the company of Black Forest Racing International (John's company) was dissolved and the new company is technically JCForbes LLC dba Black Forest Racing. So yes, a completely new company not associated with John.

I know all of this as fact because 1) my business NaroEscape Motorsports is across the parking lot from him, and 2) I help Cody out with the business from time to time making sure everything stays legal and above board. Cody is WAY more honest and WAY better of a mechanic than his father. He works on all our personal cars from our 914's to our GT3 (I think he did stuff on the GTI too). John is not allowed to touch any and is quite honestly not allowed to touch ANY Black Forest Racing cars.

Is it an odd arrangement? yes. But...if Black Forest Racing did work in the past couple years or does work into the future, you can be guaranteed that John Forbes did not and will not touch your car, only Cody or his mechanics (I've been known to hold tools now and then ;-) )

This is certainly one of the times when the kid took over and made the company better!

[naro914]

So I posted that about Cody before I read all the details of Ian's post. Ian...man I feel for you. I felt like I was reading MY story from many years ago!! And I live in NC and could go to see John and the car every day!! The end of it all was when we were signed up for a track weekend and John was re-building the engine for the 10th time or so (it wouldn't make it through a weekend without failing). we spent A TON of money trying to get it right. The week before he said "I'll have it ready on Monday". I gave him until Wednesday (Leaving for the track Thursday) and called him Tuesday afternoon to ask. "Sure, bring you're trailer we'll load it up" OK, so I did...and when I got there Wednesday night, not only was the engine not in the car, it was still in pieces on the workbench! John was eating a burger when I kept pushing him "WTF John!!" At one point I pushed a bit hard yelling LOUDLY and he got up, threw his chair across the room and yelled "Will you let me eat my F'ing dinner without you bothering me?"

At that, with one of his guys I boxed up all my stuff, pushed the car on the trailer, loaded up my engine parts, and left. Didn't talk to him for probably 7 years.

We ended up with a bigger engine, so I went to sell the parts and learned that none of them were what we paid for. Cams, heads, rods (which he still owes me money for), P&C's...nothing was the NEW stuff I bought.

So no, John has NOTHING to do with Cody's Black Forest Racing anymore, and hasn't for years. If he did, Cody would never see me or our cars (or anyone elses in the Charlotte area for that matter).

[gereed75]

Now that is an interesting turn of events.

....and now the rest of the story....

[JOEPROPER]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Larmo63]

Yikes!!!!

I have a lot of respect for Cody posting this. Wow.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[ValcoOscar]

I'm awaiting an upcoming 20/20 episode.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Oscar

[914werke]

Ian Im sorry to hear this happened to you

[Eric_Shea]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)