Is this really goin to happen?, 2035 Phase Out all new gas cars |
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Is this really goin to happen?, 2035 Phase Out all new gas cars |
ndfrigi |
Sep 23 2020, 02:36 PM
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#1
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,928 Joined: 21-August 11 From: Orange County Member No.: 13,474 Region Association: Southern California |
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bretth |
Sep 23 2020, 03:26 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 899 Joined: 23-June 15 From: Central TX Member No.: 18,882 Region Association: Southwest Region |
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Racer |
Sep 23 2020, 03:33 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Northern Virginia Member No.: 1,073 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Already happening in Europe. I believe no later than 2040.. likely 2030. Hence VW's push into EVs
You gets 15 more years..and an undetermined number after to use up all the gas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Paris already doesn't allow cars older than maybe 1990 (or maybe just old diesels?) Into the city center. The "poor" tax as some call it. Given California's history on fighting air pollution, I am not surprised. |
914werke |
Sep 23 2020, 03:44 PM
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#4
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"I got blisters on me fingers" Group: Members Posts: 9,998 Joined: 22-March 03 From: USofA Member No.: 453 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
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Olympic 914 |
Sep 23 2020, 04:04 PM
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#5
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Group: Members Posts: 1,661 Joined: 7-July 11 From: Pittsburgh PA Member No.: 13,287 Region Association: North East States |
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brcacti |
Sep 23 2020, 04:11 PM
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#6
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1974 914 1.8 Group: Members Posts: 674 Joined: 17-July 19 From: PHX AZ 60 miles south Member No.: 23,302 Region Association: Southwest Region |
The world has been changing FAST lately.
So I am wondering will classic car owners have to pay a classic tax later because of the fuel they use? |
Superhawk996 |
Sep 23 2020, 04:14 PM
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#7
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,746 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
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horizontally-opposed |
Sep 23 2020, 04:33 PM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
So I've spoken with some folks at VW, who have mentioned that the only way the EV gamble pays off is volume—whether other manufacturers buying into their skateboard and infrastructure or something like this, where states or countries change what is allowed.
I am surprised but not surprised by the announcement today. I suspect it will have little if any impact on driving a 914 before 2050 or so (Elon, who is his own piece of work, estimates it will take 15 years after 2035 to replace most of the daily CA fleet with EVs). As a car nut, I have mixed feelings on this. As a dad, I have very different feelings that go past what I want. CA was vilified for the catalyst, but it made massive improvements in CA air quality and, eventually, the world's air quality. They're saying half of our greenhouse emissions are still cars and trucks. We've got 44,000,000 people here. So that's a lot of emissions. Would I prefer that other emitters are targeted? Sure. Would I prefer that other states and countries would have gone after some of the low-hanging fruit as early as CA did? Yep. Consider Germany, which didn't require catalysts until well into the 1980s? And then you get into heavy trucks, boats, planes, cows, etc etc. But we are where we are. I worry about the grid, but it has to be addressed (as we all know). May as well address it intelligently. Not naive enough to think solar is "the" solution, but we're making the switch next week. It's a parity deal, with the average of our electricity cost per month (at today's rates) going to a solar company for ten years on a system that should supply ~107% of our usage for 35~ years (and it's warranted for much of that period). A no-cost deal, with provision for a few more panels for…an EV one day. We're adding a battery, which is cost out of pocket, but a hedge against going dark again—which doesn't work for our business. It isn't a solution that works for everyone, but it feels like a good move. As for EVs? I am not particularly a fan—but I am not particularly a fan of the bland sea of new cars available these days anyway. With so few stick shifts, and so few cars rather than SUVs, is an EV so bad? A couple of days of touring Europe in a Taycan showed me otherwise, and I sure liked skipping the gas station in our TDI before it was recalled (sigh). When I got back from driving the Taycan, most workaday V6s, V8s, I4s, etc just sounded like noise pollution to me. Sorry for the book, but we'll have access to a lot of cool cars for a long time to come. Our cars included. I view this move as potentially giving us a longer lease on fun driving. Will they actually be able to enact this by 2035? That remains to be seen... |
914_teener |
Sep 23 2020, 04:50 PM
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#9
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,194 Joined: 31-August 08 From: So. Cal Member No.: 9,489 Region Association: Southern California |
So I've spoken with some folks at VW, who have mentioned that the only way the EV gamble pays off is volume—whether other manufacturers buying into their skateboard and infrastructure or something like this, where states or countries change what is allowed. I am surprised but not surprised by the announcement today. I suspect it will have little if any impact on driving a 914 before 2050 or so (Elon, who is his own piece of work, estimates it will take 15 years after 2035 to replace most of the daily CA fleet with EVs). As a car nut, I have mixed feelings on this. As a dad, I have very different feelings that go past what I want. CA was vilified for the catalyst, but it made massive improvements in CA air quality and, eventually, the world's air quality. They're saying half of our greenhouse emissions are still cars and trucks. We've got 44,000,000 people here. So that's a lot of emissions. Would I prefer that other emitters are targeted? Sure. Would I prefer that other states and countries would have gone after some of the low-hanging fruit as early as CA did? Yep. Consider Germany, which didn't require catalysts until well into the 1980s? And then you get into heavy trucks, boats, planes, cows, etc etc. But we are where we are. I worry about the grid, but it has to be addressed (as we all know). May as well address it intelligently. Not naive enough to think solar is "the" solution, but we're making the switch next week. It's a parity deal, with the average of our electricity cost per month (at today's rates) going to a solar company for ten years on a system that should supply ~107% of our usage for 35~ years (and it's warranted for much of that period). A no-cost deal, with provision for a few more panels for…an EV one day. We're adding a battery, which is cost out of pocket, but a hedge against going dark again—which doesn't work for our business. It isn't a solution that works for everyone, but it feels like a good move. As for EVs? I am not particularly a fan—but I am not particularly a fan of the bland sea of new cars available these days anyway. With so few stick shifts, and so few cars rather than SUVs, is an EV so bad? A couple of days of touring Europe in a Taycan showed me otherwise, and I sure liked skipping the gas station in our TDI before it was recalled (sigh). When I got back from driving the Taycan, most workaday V6s, V8s, I4s, etc just sounded like noise pollution to me. Sorry for the book, but we'll have access to a lot of cool cars for a long time to come. Our cars included. I view this move as potentially giving us a longer lease on fun driving. Will they actually be able to enact this by 2035? That remains to be seen... Nice post Pete.... I agree, even Porsche will provide a combustion engine for some time but the change is here and with most manufactures seeing the writing on the wall it will someday happen. Having been born here in the Sixties....the catalytic coverter and eventually EV's will make our air better for the future. For me....I think with the recent smoke reminded me of what the air here used to be like most of the Summer and the damage it had done. I remember back then when the cat converters came out the V8 guys were himming and hawing about it, how it woud ruin things ect. Same stuff different decade....if you live long enough you may see some things twice. If your lucky or blessed or both. |
thelogo |
Sep 23 2020, 05:02 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
Talk about bad /stupid timing w..t..f.
Deal with pandemic and economic disaster 1st. Then cover the " next pressing" thing Electric cars are a band aid soultion / a joke \ reason rich people can pretended to feel good about themselves. Pretend they are saving the environment...such b.s But as long as all current cars can be say ....converted to Hydrogen or zip fuel or whatever. Shouldn't be a issue You just fill up at a different " type " of gas station But im sure by 2035 a corolla in ca. Will be msrp for 89k dollars But please . mega rich people . " gavin " Stop beating the ev . drum its so incredibly unrealistic . when every plumber and construction worker starts driving a ev . work vehicle. Will be the day that im sleeping with a womens professional tennis player or rosanne bar.. Aka . never gonna happen. And the whole amazon ev delievery trucks is such a pathetic p.r stunt/ campaign. That if you believe any of that b.s. you are the dumbest s.o.b. on the planet . commercial features a delivery driver . coming to Jesus because he has kids.\ kids as a human shield. Makes me sick . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Talk about pure " window dressing" Clint Eastwood If this extends to diesal . and i assume it does? ? Then gavin does realize that every supply used is delivered by a semi truck. Something tells me all truckers will be exempt. Cause without them you wont have the toilet paper to wipe you're ass ! |
rhodyguy |
Sep 23 2020, 05:14 PM
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#11
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,060 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
I'll prob be dead by then. I don't care anymore. The spring for the alarm clock broke long ago. As long as the Yellowstone Caldera doesn't pop the cork, I'm golden.
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914werke |
Sep 23 2020, 05:24 PM
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#12
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"I got blisters on me fingers" Group: Members Posts: 9,998 Joined: 22-March 03 From: USofA Member No.: 453 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
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bkrantz |
Sep 23 2020, 08:55 PM
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#13
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,729 Joined: 3-August 19 From: SW Colorado Member No.: 23,343 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I'll prob be dead by then. I don't care anymore. The spring for the alarm clock broke long ago. As long as the Yellowstone Caldera doesn't pop the cork, I'm golden. And I have just about given up on visiting California anyway. I bet some citizen's panel shuts down Laguna Seca before 2035. |
914_7T3 |
Sep 23 2020, 10:00 PM
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#14
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Please forgive me, I'm new to all of this! Group: Members Posts: 1,846 Joined: 3-April 17 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 20,991 Region Association: Southern California |
From today's news release,
"The executive order will not make it illegal for Californians to own gas-powered vehicles or to resell them as used cars." Drive on fellow teeners.................. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) |
Robarabian |
Sep 23 2020, 10:41 PM
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#15
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914 A Roo Group: Members Posts: 590 Joined: 11-February 19 From: Simi Valley, Kalifornia Member No.: 22,865 Region Association: Southern California |
Not being political... legal analysis only...
but .. the order is mostly symbolic. It violates the Commerce Clause of the US Constitution, so it fails judicial scrutiny, in theory. Now, the automakers would have to challenge it and get it before the courts, in this case, the 9th Circus and then the Supreme Court. That being said, if one party wins the election, they could decide the "green new deal" is so important, they could try to modify the commerce clause. But mostly, it would not live through judicial scrutiny. For those of you who need the primer on the Commerce Clause, you cannot enact a law that negatively impacts interstate commerce, or commerce between the 50 states. You can enact all the laws you want "within" the state, or "intrastate commerce". This clearly effects commerce between states as automakers are both foreign and domestic. And yes, I would love to leave CA, but I won't take a BAR exam again, as it was miserable the first time.... |
dhuckabay |
Sep 23 2020, 11:04 PM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 14-June 20 From: Idaho Member No.: 24,379 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Lost this when I did it before. Agree with Rhody, won't live to see this. That doesn't mean I don't have an interest though. What I read shows that the pollution from making a battery is worse than driving a Toyota for 10 years. Seems like the lithium batteries are good for about 10 years. Hear that a Tesla S change out is over $40k. Just looked for a lithium for a car, $1500 for a plain jane, and they advertise it as a forever.
Then we get to the charging. CA seems to think that all will come from green. Hard to explain why the economy is shut when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow. Power cuts where there in the last month. Green power can't be delivered on the grid to meet the needs. Next up is that the batteries need cobalt to control heat on charge and discharge. 70% of the worlds cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo, an oxymoron. To make the mine work it needs sulfuric acid. This comes from South Africa. We have seen no trucks leave since March. Standby for further news. A lot of built ecars with no batteries to run them. Not trying to sound cocky but have been a ChemE for near 50 years. An MD for part of that. My thesis was oxidation-reduction, batteries. There is nothing new. The chemistry and potentials were known for long before I was born. Will say that vanadium redox batties do have great potential for storage of green power. Not so greaat for transport. Due to heat requirements they are about the size of a 20 ft container. Good luck to CA. As Reagan said, land of the fruits and nuts. |
larryM |
Sep 23 2020, 11:16 PM
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#17
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emoze Group: Members Posts: 891 Joined: 1-January 03 From: mid- California Member No.: 65 Region Association: Northern California |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
one might guess that Elon & Gavimn talked about this & that's why Tesla just announced a $25K model in 3 yrs a car-for-the-rest-of-us |
dhuckabay |
Sep 23 2020, 11:19 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 14-June 20 From: Idaho Member No.: 24,379 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Sorry to add to this. Bought a 1996 993T in SF. Drove it back to the NW. Got 17 mpg in CA on CA clean fuel. Hit Oregon, fueled up. Never had less than 25mpg in the two years since then. How in the world you can consume so much fuel and have less pollution is beyond science.
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Maltese Falcon |
Sep 23 2020, 11:26 PM
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#19
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,634 Joined: 14-September 04 From: Mulholland SoCal Member No.: 2,755 Region Association: None |
No worries, our gov is in total control of his faculties; just chased Tesla out of the State to build their new pick up trucks elsewhere. Whoops there goes a billion dollar Green mfg & thousands of Green jobs.
When Arnold ran our State he tightened the bi-annual emissions check ; making any vehicle post 1976 to be endlessly tested...but he shows up in BH driving (sans license plates) a Steyer Daimler Puch- Pinzgauer for a photo op ! At least Willow Springs Raceway is protected as it has State historic status; the 1st amateur raceway constructed in Nov. 23,1953. My Family + friends will be safe in their petrol cars in Rosamond, Sanctury State, Ca. 93560 |
bretth |
Sep 23 2020, 11:29 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 899 Joined: 23-June 15 From: Central TX Member No.: 18,882 Region Association: Southwest Region |
It is always 'we won't make it illegal' but they will do every other sneaky thing to make it incredibly difficult to do anything other than what they really want you to do via more taxes, convoluted rules, eliminating gas stations etc. That way not many will fight it until it is too late. Government is real good at this. Just read it as no more gas vehicles period.
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