Price Check, 1976 2L Survivor, Helping out a friend's family Options

[GregAmy]

First, this is not a "for sale" ad. I do not own the car, and I am not brokering it (at least, not at this time).

I was asked to help out the family a friend's brother, who passed away leaving his 1976 914. I'm looking for some advice to pass along to them for how much this may be worth (yes, I know, "as much as someone is willing to pay") and best opportunities for selling it.

This is a very clean '76 2L. It's a white L80E with white interior, family says that's the original colors. I infer the PO had it for at least 10 years and one of his former partners notes he was "meticulous" on his maintenance. I went to look at the car today and took a bunch of photos and drove it.

I gotta tell ya, it's one of the nicest-driving 914s I've ever driven. Clutch action is silky smooth with excellent take-up, throttle action is smooth as well, and shifting is buttery but positive (no worn-out linkages here). Suspension is smooth and a bit floaty to my tastes, but the inserts feel like they still have rebound. Were the original cars this soft (askss the Koni-equipped guy)?

There are many things on this car that support that mileage and it being a garaged survivor. Just little things like the washer bottle hose is still original and in good shape, decals in places where they should be, Clean original dashboard with no cracks (zero). Door cards in great shape, carpets in serviceable condition.

Brakes are firm and with good LR and FR balance. Couldn't really see what pads were in there or how much was left.

The body is in great shape but shows evidence of a re-spray (see headlight motors); she does not know how much of the car was painted or how long ago, so it must have been done before the deceased bought it. But the quality of the paint is very good. There's a couple of under-paint rust bubbles on each front fenders near where the aft edge of the fender meets the windshield header, but it's less than the size of my pinky fingernail.

Bumpers are in great shape. All vinyl is in great shape. Chrome is in great shape. That, along with the clean dash, shows the car has clearly not lived outside.

The person that I met said that the interior was re-upholstered a few years ago, in the original white color. She said the owner had to special-order the material for it.

2L engine compartment is complete with the stock D-Jet. Car, dead cold, fired right up and idled with the turn of the key. The idle stayed at around 1500 even when warmed up, and removing and blocking the air bypass hose didn't make it go down, so maybe it just needs an idle adjustment (and the air valve checked). Otherwise take up on throttle and clutch was silky smooth, engine even never stumbled under any load or throttle setting.

The car must have orginally come from California, as it has the metal EGR tubes going into the heads. Where the tubes came together next to the airbox was blocked off with a hose and plug, and I confess I don't know what that's supposed to go to. But there was no evidence, visual or audible, for any of those tubes leaking.

So, the big 914 question: rust. I could not get a good eye on the hell hole, as the charcoal canister was in the way. But I did slide my hand down in the pocket area/divot forward of the battery, as well as the flat area under the battery, and all I felt was smooth sheet metal. The battery tray show some pitting but was intact.

The longs, however, both have areas of rust, on their aft ends, of about 8-10 inches, with some small through-holes. It is not extensive, and it is not so large as to affect structure. The jack points are all still there, though with surfacer rust. I do believe this is something that someone with some metal/welding talents can whack out in a reasonable amount of time and, in my opinion, not of a level to cause rejection fo teh car outright.

There were some other area of surface rust, such as across the bottom pan, and probably above the transaxle (see the trunk photos) but nothing through. If it is significant importance, I can get the car to my house and put it on my lift to get a better view and take more photos (and get a boroscope into the hell hole area).

Person said that the Po never drove it on bad days; she knew this because the top never came out of the trunk. So it has not seen snowy/salt roads in quite a long time.

Overall, this is a very clean car, is much better overall condition that my "probably 200k miles" driver-quality car. Other than the longs rust, it is very nice, and very original. I would suggest, based on the originality of the car and how it drives, this is a Hagerty Good+ car, with only the longs rust keeping it from being a solid Excellent.

So, my goal with you today is to get some feedback on this car (tear it up), and get an idea of where I should ask the family to start negotiations, along with the best opportunites to sell it. Car is located in central CT.

Your thoughts? Thanks for your time.

Greg

[76-914]

$7K - $12K. Maybe $17K if longs don't need work. I just finished a "minor" long patch repair on a '76 with minimal rust and there wasn't anything minor about it. Look at BringaTrailer's previous and current final sales on the '75-76's for a better feel of the market. The rear 2.0 emblem is on the wrong side. GLWS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[SirAndy]

Your thoughts?

Not going to make friends with this one, so here it goes:

- It was repainted because the right front shows evidence of accident damage
- The rust is substantial, that passenger side long is mostly gone
- From what i see my bet is the odometer has rolled over and you're looking at 146k

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[mepstein]

Your thoughts?

Not going to make friends with this one, so here it goes:

- It was repainted because the right front shows evidence of accident damage
- The rust is substantial, that passenger side long is mostly gone
- From what i see my bet is the odometer has rolled over and you're looking at 146k

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I get the same vibe as Andy. I had a low mileage early car. The interior was perfect even though the car had lots of rust. For this car to need upholstery, I think it had a lot of use and a lot of miles. I was just looking from my cell but the respray looks cheap because of all the overspray. I think there is a lot more going on here. I’m not trying to be harsh and I’m only looking at small pics on my phone so I could certainly be wrong.

[930cabman]

Top side looks decent, but the money shot(s)? Too hard for me to guess at this point.
GLWS

[Superhawk996]

Your thoughts?

Not going to make friends with this one, so here it goes:

- It was repainted because the right front shows evidence of accident damage
- The rust is substantial, that passenger side long is mostly gone
- From what i see my bet is the odometer has rolled over and you're looking at 146k

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Though I have to say - I'm not seeing the accident damage that SirAndy is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Looking again, I think the BUB isn't aligned properly to the right front corner sheet metal indent for the bumper. Maybe that's what SirAndy is seeing as the tip off?

That passenger side long will be major surgery. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) The jacking triangle is crunchy and it looks to me like the rear box section at the bottom of the rear bulkhead on the passenger side is compromised too.

Definition of "survivor" varies but I would not consider this a survivor anymore than the rust bucket I'm currently working on.

I can't imagine the hell hole hasn't been poorly repaired. Even though you felt a smooth surface you need eyes on it. Mine was nice and smooth too. It was just a layer of thin sheet metal and filler nicely pasted over a gaping hole underneath.

It would hard to imagine having the hole in the passenger long as seen, without 1st having had the usual failure mode of a hole in the hell hole 1st that pours the battery acid down into the long and the rear box section which then leads to the rust and hole that you see.

I'm also with SirAndy on the mileage. The chance of a 914 having averaged less 100,000 miles, over the course of 45-50 years is exceedingly low. Nothing else about the car points toward this being a sub 100K mile car.

Great project car for someone though. Very saveable!

You asked for harsh so I'm also going to add:

I disagree - maintenance doesn't look meticulous to me.

Oil leaks abound. Underside looks pretty oily like oil has been leaking / blowing around for a while.
Not sure what the thing picture of the stuff hanging down under the car is - photo too dark. Electrical tape?
Hot air ducting pieced together from various bits and wrapped with electrical tape?
Still has lead acid battery to contribute to the long corrosion.
Dash material around the radio -- looks crunchy and/or pieced together?
Paint over spray on speaker pods? Really? That speaks to quality of the re-spray.
Passenger side trunk hinge looks like it has a poor repair. Booger Welds. Definitely has incorrect Socket Head Cap Screw (Torx? - can't tell) as pivot fastener.
Broken drain tube funnel on driver side. Tucked under relay board.
The wire harness coming out of the relay board appears to be electrical tape covered instead of factory sheath. Sigh, someone was in there doing something? Who knows what.
Frunk monkey fur coming unglued from the bulkhead
Engine tin held together with Hex head bolts instead of proper cheese head screws. Sign that someone has removed engine before? And for what reason?

[pbanders]

Engine bay pretty grubby for a "meticulously maintained" 914. Others have noted some issues, I also spotted:

* Coil relocated to the shroud, but the mount to the engine still looks good. Holes through the coil mount nuts on the engine tin leaking hot air into the engine compartment.

* Battery tray doesn't look great. If you're going to use a lead-acid battery, you need an acid mat.

* General: lots of rust, and I'll bet the respray is hiding a world more of it.

All that said, these days, will probably still bring a good price on BAT. But definitely a project car in the long run.

[SirAndy]

Though I have to say - I'm not seeing the accident damage that SirAndy is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Looking again, I think the BUB isn't aligned properly to the right front corner sheet metal indent for the bumper. Maybe that's what SirAndy is seeing as the tip off?

@Superhawk996
Tell tale wrinkle where the crumble zone was working as designed.
Seen it many, many times in that exact spot.

Combine that with the ill fitting bumper and headlight in that corner and it's pretty obvious that the right side was hit at some point and not repaired properly.
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[Superhawk996]

@SirAndy

Good eye. Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't catch that nuance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mepstein]

I had a feeling it had crash damage just because they painted the front trunk. Normally it wouldn’t be painted just to freshen up the exterior paint.

[GregAmy]

I appreciate the feedback. No worries on being harsh; like I said, "tear it up."

So what am I telling the family? They are not car people and are looking to me for advice. I suggest that $7-12k is a little too harsh, but I don't think they'll get the $30k they're expecting ("so that each of my girls can have $10k for their education accounts").

I may see if my buddy Chris would be interested in some beer and cash for a written PPI (plus lunch?) and ask around to see who may be able to repair it.

It does drive really nice, though. Ssmoothest one I've ever driven. My car seems seriously harsh by comparison (Konis and 205/50 Hoosier Speedsters).

Greg

[Superhawk996]

I appreciate the feedback. No worries on being harsh; like I said, "tear it up."

So what am I telling the family? They are not car people and are looking to me for advice. I suggest that $7-12k is a little too harsh, but I don't think they'll get the $30k they're expecting ("so that each of my girls can have $10k for their education accounts").

I may see if my buddy Chris would be interested in some beer and cash for a written PPI (plus lunch?) and ask around to see who may be able to repair it.

It does drive really nice, though. Ssmoothest one I've ever driven. My car seems seriously harsh by comparison (Konis and 205/50 Hoosier Speedsters).

Greg

Put it on BAT. On the right day - they may get closer to $30K . . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) over there lately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[wonkipop]

Engine bay pretty grubby for a "meticulously maintained" 914. Others have noted some issues, I also spotted:

* Coil relocated to the shroud, but the mount to the engine still looks good. Holes through the coil mount nuts on the engine tin leaking hot air into the engine compartment.

* Battery tray doesn't look great. If you're going to use a lead-acid battery, you need an acid mat.

* General: lots of rust, and I'll bet the respray is hiding a world more of it.

All that said, these days, will probably still bring a good price on BAT. But definitely a project car in the long run.

coil could well be correct spot for a 76 2.0L.
every single one i have seen documentation of has it there.
think it got shifted to that location matching 1.8 L cars to get it out of the way of EGR plumbing/emissions gear etc that started coming in for 75?

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interesting observation by sir andy re crumpling in front guard inner.

white on white color combo is cool.

sure isn't a 40K mile car. +side is its all there. a good project for someone - assuming what sir andy is pointing to hasn't resulted in an out of whack front end.

an awful lot of rust i am seeing in those photos.
and what you can see will only be a quarter of it.

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@GregAmy - the smooth ride experience is right for original boge shocks.
think the idea was soft springing combined with sway bars.
its probably got front and rear sway bars?
sounds like the car is very good mechanically.

[rgalla9146]

I've never seen a white on white car.
The color under the door sticker is white, the Karmann tag is not legible to me but
the color does go into deep places. The poor masking under the front hood is a mystery.
I say the interior color was changed using a donor car and some re-upholstery.

[Front yard mechanic]

List that car on your local Craigslist for 15000 and let the cards fall where they may (IMG:style_emoticons/default/splat.gif)