Bringing it back:, Improved Original for 4742910780 Options

[wonkipop]

@Van B

are you going to install sway bars?

[StarBear]

You only need to loosen it enough to slip the mount and long bolt out of the channel on the transmission support bracket. Remove the two bolts/nuts holding the mount to the chassis, loosen the long bolt from the mount to the transmission and take out the whole thing. Then install the same way.

Ah, but I think (?) the problem is that there's no headroom to slip the center bolt up that far - only an inch, tops. Mine looks like the pic below, from another current thread.

Haven't planned to hijack your build thread out of confusion and need, Van, so I apologize.
Yes, @wonkipop - but I'm not planning to do that anytime soon. Needs to be done (120k mi), but not urgent though may be the source of the little hum/vibration I get in 4th/5th gear on the highway, hence the idea to replace the mounts as perhaps a faster/cheaper solution attempt as they're the original mounts.

[wonkipop]

@StarBear - you undo the 2 smaller M8 bolts on each mount as well and slide the whole thing out towards front of car. you loosen the centre bolt only enough allow it to slide through the forked mount and get it out.

then you can take the mount out and take it apart. take a photo. get all the washers and everything back in correctly in sequence with the new mount.

install reverse order or removal.

thats why you need the torque setting of that big central bolt.

normally when you drop engine and trans as unit you just undo the 2 M8 bolts either side and leave the central bolt alone and leave the mounts on the gearbox.

the nuts would be down on yours (as they are on mine) because whoever did it wanted to torque them up with a torque wrench from the bottom. (i realise there are contrary views on that - would be interested to know how the install was done with the nuts up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) ).

[Van B]

@Van B

are you going to install sway bars?

I have the OE sway bars from my 996 taking up space in the shed. If I can fit it in next to the steering rack once I mount the two port fuel pump, then I might go for it. Otherwise I’ll leave it all loose and out of control lol… 76hp feels faster with no sway bars anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Van B]

No worries @StarBear . You’re over thinking it. Get under there with your wrenches and it will become clear real quick. @wonkipop I did find the torque value and I remember that it was in an odd place. I’ll look it up again.

[StarBear]

@StarBear - you undo the 2 smaller M8 bolts on each mount as well and slide the whole thing out towards front of car. you loosen the centre bolt only enough allow it to slide through the forked mount and get it out.

then you can take the mount out and take it apart. take a photo. get all the washers and everything back in correctly in sequence with the new mount.

install reverse order or removal.

thats why you need the torque setting of that big central bolt.

normally when you drop engine and trans as unit you just undo the 2 M8 bolts either side and leave the central bolt alone and leave the mounts on the gearbox.

the nuts would be down on yours (as they are on mine) because whoever did it wanted to torque them up with a torque wrench from the bottom. (i realise there are contrary views on that - would be interested to know how the install was done with the nuts up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) ).

Ohhhhhh. I can see clearly now! SLIDE forward. Will await the torque setting. Still learning, thanks to The Wise Ones. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

[/quote]
Van; Rats. Looked under there and the center bolts are upside down (nut on bottom) - must have happened when engine out at 70k miles. So, no way to change out mounts without dropping trans?
[/quote]

one more thing @StarBear
i don't think Van B minds me expanding on esoterica - cause he knows i am a sceptic and contrarian (ie trouble making upside down a-hole (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

it is my firm opinion your bolts aren't on "upside down".
its a myth that someone has come up with based on the PET diagram?
i'll explain why. its coming back to me because i ghosted these forums when i was recommissioning the wallaby 3 years back and read it all in some long lost thread here were a bunch of guys went at each other about those mounts.

1)
mine were on apparently "upside down". ie nuts at bottom bolt facing down.
photo before we started work. you can see them.



2. here is the top of the mount we removed.
still liberally goobered with original undercoating that got sprayed all around in there by some kook toking on a stoobie back in 74. it had never been off. the evidence was fairly compelling.



so the mounts before we started where "upside down" and had been so called "upside down" since the day it was built. 99% certain on that.
granted. some stoned german could have screwed it up the wrong way on the assembly line. or they dropped the motor in the workshop before they sold it new or sent it off to the undercoaters for some reason. but i very much doubt it.

additionally if you look through the factory manuals there are photos of the mounts in question in situ in the car with the nuts on the bottom.

so.....if you ask me yours are not upside down at all.

------
i think where the myth comes from is the early cars up to 73. they have forward engine mounts for a solid mounted cross bar. similar or identical mounts to gearbox. and if i am not mistaken the only way you can get the bolt in is from below and do the nut up on top. but i could be wrong. don't have an early car to know. i think they just followed the same convention for the rear mounts. but i can assure you its academic. it makes no difference to the rear mounts because you slide them out through the forked transmission casting. and we don't have forward mounts on our later cars. they are smaller rubber mounts in the centre of the bar where it is joined to the engine.

---------

i also now remember the factory manual is real skinny on the engine mount issue.
seems to have been written for the 70-72 cars with different mounts.
probably the manual i have was supposed to have a revision and its been lost.

we might have just tightened up the transmission mount centre bolt firmly.
i can't remember but i can ask mike next monday for you.
i left that to him. he knows 911s backwards so he probably didn't think twice about it whatever he did.

--------

[wonkipop]

this might also give you pause to think @StarBear before you fret to much about those bolts.

from the L jet files.

44 K mile car we pulled down material on from BAT last year that was a big clincher for the 1.8 L jet research. sold back in 2016. just about one of the best most original 1.8s i've come across documented. Big Len would probably agree with me. you would be hard pressed to question this one.

to me don't look like anyone has been near the trans mounts since abba entered eurovision. they are "upside down" according to 914 myth. or are they?



this is from the alleged 29K mile blue car.
don't think it was 29K miles but along with Big Len i don't share everyone's else's scepticism about it and dismissing it as a 129 K car either. not as compelling as the green car.
but......they are "upside - down".




i didn't give ground on the charcoal can plumbing and its not that i was right about it.
but my car (as an artefact) was right. same with the plumbing on throttle bodies and dist vac cans. not saying i am right 100% here, but i'm not falling for the "rules" either.
i'm calling this one as problematic in terms of what the "experts" say.

have hijacked enough, but i think Van likes it when we get into a bit of heresy at his expense. those cold start threads he started up were some of the best explorations of 1.8 misery ever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

by the way @Van B thats a pretty clean looking engine you got there when its out of the car. tin ware looks to be in outstanding shape. tends to verify you got hold of a real good car, just getting a bit creaky in the joints after half a century. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[StarBear]

If it’s good enough for @wonkipop , it’s good enough for me. I’m sufficiently convinced. Onward! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[StarBear]

Van; would these be the torques you mentioned? #2 Not specific to the center bolt?

[Van B]

Steve, for the life of me, I can’t find the M12 bolt reference. But, I use charts like this when I need a standard spec for grade, size, pitch: https://www.fastenermart.com/files/metric_t...ten_torques.pdf

So, ~40ft-lbs is a safe bet for the long bolt unless you can confirm the grade as higher than 5.

The small M8 carrier bolts for the transmission mounts are listed in the engine section attached.

Oh and Wonki, I can’t possibly complain about one of the few guys who responds to my cries for help lol! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[StarBear]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Onward! Thanks and back to the real thread…..

[Van B]

So the theme of today is: Better lucky than good any day of the week!

I saw some rust chips under the firewall pad when I pulled the engine so I knew that needed an investigation. But while assessing that, I also saw some inclusions in the coating in the hell hole. Unbelievably, all of the metal is still solid!

I have a lot of grinding still to do before I can phosphate and seal… but man did I get lucky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Van B]

Another lesson for folks: Don’t use spray adhesive on your firewall pad! You’ll just trap moisture and cause unnecessary and avoidable rust (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[wonkipop]

car gets better the deeper you go.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

Another lesson for folks: Don’t use spray adhesive on your firewall pad! You’ll just trap moisture and cause unnecessary and avoidable rust (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

the fatal flaw in the 914 is not so much the battery location as the unresolved engine lid.
they couldn't get it right across to the targa bar junction so they put fixed extensions of the grill band in there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) then didn't bother with a catch tray in that portion and could work out how to do a water draining joint between the two either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) its real aesthetics over engineering, or form over function stuff. surprising for germans. it does look good and very resolved stylistically but they just pulled up short on engineering it.

ever looked at a fiat X/19 - the eye tal yuns did a much better job. (but its not very pretty).

the original owner of your car got smart when he sprayed all that waterproofing in those areas of the engine bay. guy was probably an engineer? took one look at those side panels and went no no no.

[Van B]

It’s original zeibart coating and it was sprayed all over the car when new. But to me the hell hole looks like it started rusting and was given a casual derusting and then another thick coat of water proofing.

When I got the car both sides were filled with acorns so, there was at least a year where moisture sat down there and couldn’t drain.

[wonkipop]

It’s original zeibart coating and it was sprayed all over the car when new. But to me the hell hole looks like it started rusting and was given a casual derusting and then another thick coat of water proofing.

When I got the car both sides were filled with acorns so, there was at least a year where moisture sat down there and couldn’t drain.

yeah i think mine was the same, but not used in engine bay. it was covered in the stuff underneath. a thick kind of goo stuff. still is. i am sure it saved it for the first 2 years it was in use as a more or less daily driver. then it got retired to summer use when the original owners moved to the mid west. from there i don't think it ever got too much, if any, moisture - apart from that hellish mid west summer humidity. i don't know how you guys put up with it!!!

which is just as well as that undercoating starts to break down as it ages and admit moisture into cracks. and then in some ways its even worse than if it wasn't there.
a bit like you and your car. in my case pure luck.

mine had surface corrosion all in that gate to hell area 30 odd years ago. i cleaned it up and hit it with rust convertor way back when i got it. still holding up.

[Van B]

Electrolysis for the win. Only had a couple hours to work today, but I made the most of it. So glad I took out the home made kit, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to expose that inclusion.

[wonkipop]

still a lucky man.

have you taken the sill rocker panels off yet to look in around jacking posts?