P-car 6 or SBC 8, for Ury Options

[BIGKAT_83]

I saw a new Carrera GT last week driving around N.Georgia. Don't know if the Guy was drinking moonshine or not,but sure looked like he was having fun.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) Bob

[turbo914v8]

Ok you win, I just pucked up a stock 914 2.0 L and I am now selling my 914 bastard. I want to play race car driver with the real men. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Brett W]

QUOTE

One more thought on SBC. I'm sure Dr. Porsche must be turning over in his grave knowing that people have put iron block V8's in this car.

The Ferrari F50 had a cast iron block.

The SBC is an old standby. Are you going to bitch when someone puts an LS1-7 in the car? What about a 4 litre Lexus? Maybe you think that the Carrera GT goes against what Dr Porsche stood for? OMG a big clunky V10. Oh the Horror. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)

I don't necessarily agree that a small block will destroy the handling of a car. Why don't you look at the Trans AM cars. They all run small blocks, and handle great.

If you really want to see some cool shit (Grant not included) check out www.glennbunch.com. Guy built a 528 Hemi Challenger to run in IMSA. Car weighed 2450 with 32 gallons of fuel. After seeing this car run I can ssure you it ain't slow in the corners.

I just don't fall into this stupid belief that just because you have a big HP motor that you have some how totally destroyed tour fine sporty car. The 911 is bass ackwards and yet no one knocks its success. Is the 911 turbo and 935 no longer a fine sports car because they have a bunch of HP?

[Andyrew]

Um.....

What about the 918?

Seemed like the dr. liked that car a bit.

[LvSteveH]

I think it should be pointed out that every chassis has a maximum effective horsepower. Of course some of the elements are tire size, limited slip, and suspension setup, but there is still a point at which more power actually diminishes the dynamics of the car.

Lingenfelter built a twin turbo 700+hp C5 corvette that improved only negligibly over the stock numbers in acceleration, and I'm sure would not do anything for the car at the track.

Having a twin turbo SBC in a 914 with 1000hp is great for bench racing, but where is it practical or even beneficial in any capacity? Do you accelerate appreciably faster than if you only had 500hp in your car? I doubt it.

The 914 seems to me to love around 200hp. It just seems balanced there. Anything over 400hp in a street driven 914 seems to me to be more about bragging rights than anything usable. Dedicated track cars are of course another story all together.

A 2100 pound 914 with 300hp, a nicely tuned suspension, and decent tires would be just about perfect on the street and entirely capable on the track, just ask the guys running a 3.6L six. If properly geared and setup, that would net 12 second quarter mile times AND great handling in a car that can be comfortable enough for the street. That's Viper, Z06, and GT2 territory on a postman's budget.

And there is no reason the same 300 hp couldn't come from a well prepped 302 V8 with aluminum heads that spins to 7500 rpm just like the porsche.

Just my .02 cents.

[startsw/p]

If you were building an airplane, which would you rather have? If you were building a truck? I agree with sammy, its the whole feeling of the six. Sure SBC's sound cool too, but its like a beatiful woman with a man's voice. The BMW engine is a cool twist though, they make the most HP per litre. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

[Dan_F]

Wow, this discussion turned into an argument.
My experience is very limited, I rode in a race prepared 914-6 for the poker run at WCC '05 and it was amazing to say the least. A couple weeks ago I rode in GWN7's V8 conversion when he was coming through. Also amazing. I have only ever driven a 1.8 four and still love it after riding in both of the faster cars.

I have been thinking what I would do when my 1.8 eventually quits.
They both sound awesome, they both haul ass, they were both loud, rode rough and handled better than most street cars. The 6 felt faster although I think it was because of the more peaky power.

One of the reasons I bought a 914 was because there are so many options on what to do with them and so many people with different tastes that own and modify them. I just wonder, assuming for the same cost and with the same reliability you could have a 250hp 4, 6, or 8 would the arguments still be the same?

I would prefer the 6, personally. It's not the cheapest, not necessarily the fastest, maybe not even the coolest, but it seems the most right to me.
My $0.02

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (Dan_F @ Aug 22 2005, 03:51 PM)

...assuming for the same cost and with the same reliability you could have a 250hp 4, 6, or 8 would the arguments still be the same?

as long as piston engines make power over about 120 degrees of crankshaft rotation, a 4 is never going to be as smooth as a 6. (the contra-rotating Lanchester balance shafts a la 944 come real close...)

the only real problem i have with 8's is the quality of the TYPICAL implementation. they CAN be done well. i've seen a few that HAVE been done well. but it seems that most people have (historically) viewed the V8 as cheap power and cobbled things together, cut corners, not thought things through, and employed excessive backyard engineering.

i'd rather see a properly done V8 conversion than a shitbox 6 conversion any day.

the cost of PROPERLY adding power to ANY car is not going to be cheap.

[neo914-6]

QUOTE (startsw/p @ Aug 21 2005, 06:04 PM)

Sure SBC's sound cool too, but its like a beatiful woman with a man's voice. The BMW engine is a cool twist though, they make the most HP per litre. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

Not sure of your other analogies but most people don't consider the 914 to be "beautiful" ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)

are you saying the 914 itself or that the engine sounds like a girl? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

All,
Let's agree that everyone has their own interpretations and preferences.

[aircooledboy]

Hmmmm........ (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

Some "interesting" perspectives offered here. I realized long ago that SBC conversions are in the same class as religion and politics around here. You are never gonna change anybody's mind, so save your breath. It did make me laught when Hippy got jumped on for jabbing the AX guys, but Grant gets a pass on the repeated, indefensibly inflammatory insults. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

I have been driving 914's for over 25 years now. I've had 9 of them, including every stock engine configuration to leave the factory. I think I'm a pretty skilled driver, I don't think the size of my balls is related in any way to the car I drive, and I think I have my fair share of common sense. My current 1.7 was my good weather DD for 3 years, and I pushed that car to it's limits many times on some nice twisties I drive regularly. But now that I have the V8 car completely sorted, the 1.7 just gathers dust. I see all of the comical classic "here's why an SBC sucks" myths restated here as though they were truth. All I know is that V8 is more fun than, and handles as well as, any 914 I've ever driven.

This post has been edited by aircooledboy: Aug 22 2005, 04:42 PM

[Crazyhippy]

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ Aug 21 2005, 01:18 PM)

Having a twin turbo SBC in a 914 with 1000hp is great for bench racing, but where is it practical or even beneficial in any capacity? Do you accelerate appreciably faster than if you only had 500hp in your car? I doubt it. The 914 seems to me to love around 200hp. It just seems balanced there. Anything over 400hp in a street driven 914 seems to me to be more about bragging rights than anything usable. Dedicated track cars are of course another story all together. A 2100 pound 914 with 300hp, a nicely tuned suspension, and decent tires would be just about perfect on the street and entirely capable on the track, just ask the guys running a 3.6L six. If properly geared and setup, that would net 12 second quarter mile times AND great handling in a car that can be comfortable enough for the street. That's Viper, Z06, and GT2 territory on a postman's budget. And there is no reason the same 300 hp couldn't come from a well prepped 302 V8 with aluminum heads that spins to 7500 rpm just like the porsche. Just my .02 cents.

Just because there are 1000 HP on tap, doesn't mean you use them all the time, you learn throttle control on a whole new level. If traction will only handle 500HP, only use 500 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/burnout.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/w00t.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Aug 22 2005, 05:56 PM)

It did make me laught when Hippy got jumped on for jabbing the AX guys, but Grant gets a pass on the repeated, indefensibly inflamitory insults.

yes, we are intolerant of anonymous people from undisclosed locations.
especially those whose initial posts are highly controversial - borderline inflammatory.

i tend to believe little from anonymous posters until they've established some credibility; maybe not even then.

<--- my name's right over there.

[Crazyhippy]

You got a mouse in your pocket?

If you dont like me because you dont know my name... to bad.

And as far as me be anonymous, welcome to the internet (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

I'm not here for you to like me. (note the period) i'm here because i happen to like 914's. I've built a few of them, i've driven a few of them, and have my opinions on what makes the cars better, and what doesn't.

Have a nice Day. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/flipa.gif)

Oh BTW, this thread was started at the request of a long time member, not just because i wanted to cause trouble (causing trouble was just a benifit)

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Aug 22 2005, 06:59 PM)

If you dont like me because you dont know my name... to bad.

i have no opinion of you because I DON'T KNOW YOU.

AFAIK, you're a perfectly nice person IRL and only play a jerk on the internet.

[Crazyhippy]

I've got you beat, i know your name and where you live, and still dont know you.

Good call w/ the anonymous card (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

You have illustrated that you dont like me (refered to me as Jerk for one) so you are highly unlikely to fairly weigh any arguments i might add for or against something (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

I think we are both here for the same reasons. Different ideas maybe, but that's part of the fun. As long as a car is done nicely i will respect it (maybe not the rotaries, just not natural, no con-rods and all (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) )and i think you're the same way.

There now you know me (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[J P Stein]

QUOTE (Dan_F @ Aug 22 2005, 11:51 AM)

The 6 felt faster although I think it was because of the more peaky power.

Humm....it musta been yellow (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[J P Stein]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Aug 22 2005, 03:02 PM)

AFAIK, you're a perfectly nice person IRL and only play a jerk on the internet.

We agree......no mouse in my pocket sonny.

We can picture you as anything we want as you seem to be unable to clarify yourself.

I prefer you as a pimply faced hi school kid with a computer....you know, socially retarded, unable to connect with real people except by the anonymity of the internet. A clever put down to you is flipping someone the bird.

I could be wrong, but as Rich said, you play a punk on the internet....or words( less offensive) to that effect.

Now excuse me while I put a block on you.....a first for me here......and to whomever asked you here (if that is true), thanks for nothing.

[mihai914]

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Aug 22 2005, 06:59 PM)

Oh BTW, this thread was started at the request of a long time member, not just because i wanted to cause trouble (causing trouble was just a benifit)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif)

I agree with Rich, what you're doing is like showing up for the first time in a bar and stirring (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/stromberg.gif)

How do you think the regulars will take it? And just because you're on the Internet doesn't mean that you have to lose all your education and good sense.

Back on subject, the stock 95hp of the 2.0 four was enough to get me in trouble, so I tend to lean towards the "become a better driver and then go for power" option.

Most people here appreciate all flavors of the 914 up to the wild and crazy, but they appreciate it because it's nicely done.

You can drive a hack job even with a stock T-4 if it was a half-assed install.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Aug 22 2005, 07:11 PM)

I've got you beat, i know your name and where you live, and still dont know you. You have illustrated that you dont like me (refered to me as Jerk for one) so you are highly unlikely to fairly weigh any arguments i might add for or against something...

i have 4852 posts; if you read even a tiny fraction of those, you'd know me as well as 99% of the people here do.

i still don't know *you*. i'm not fond of the character you play here.

i'm not likely to weigh any arguments you may make at all.

[Andyrew]

QUOTE

I prefer you as a pimply faced hi school kid with a computer

Hey.

I resent that remark.

but im in college now. I'll get over it (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)