/6 conversion, would you do it again? Options

[930cabman]

I would also add this. If you stay with 2.7 or less it really simplifies things. No front oil cooler, no special flywheel and pretty straightforward. You still can get mounts for $350, sheet metal, $450, flywheel, $300, headers, $600, muffler $400, modded cooler $150, modded shift linkage $150, DIY wiring harness free, oil tank set up and oil lines $1000,last thing to decide if your induction so let’s just say 3200 in parts without including induction to get rolling. Seems like a decent deal to be honest.

Yea, like I mentioned, if George isn’t into conversions, there are plenty of people who are. Call Ben/MB911 if you want one done. I wish I knew him when I had flares welded on my car.

Happy to help. How I read into George’s statement is that in reflection they are only original once and I think he is speaking from that perspective

TIA, can you offer any wisdom with regards to "roll in " the oil tank with the AN 16 fitting (in the front portion of the wheelwell) secured. I am hoping to not cut a perfect lower fender to tighten the fitting.

[mepstein]

What a great question.....would I do the six conversion again?
It was tough and expensive to find the quality or factory parts that I wanted in the build.
Could only imagine how much harder that part of the build would be.
I'd definitely change some things that I did as I was learning as I went.
Definitely start with a better base for the car.
Mine was in pretty poor condition and took tons of time and money to make it right.
It was fun.
But I think my next Porsche project will be back in the 911 longhood camp where I began my silly journey with these German sports cars.

One of my favorites. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mb911]

I would also add this. If you stay with 2.7 or less it really simplifies things. No front oil cooler, no special flywheel and pretty straightforward. You still can get mounts for $350, sheet metal, $450, flywheel, $300, headers, $600, muffler $400, modded cooler $150, modded shift linkage $150, DIY wiring harness free, oil tank set up and oil lines $1000,last thing to decide if your induction so let’s just say 3200 in parts without including induction to get rolling. Seems like a decent deal to be honest.

Yea, like I mentioned, if George isn’t into conversions, there are plenty of people who are. Call Ben/MB911 if you want one done. I wish I knew him when I had flares welded on my car.

Happy to help. How I read into George’s statement is that in reflection they are only original once and I think he is speaking from that perspective

TIA, can you offer any wisdom with regards to "roll in " the oil tank with the AN 16 fitting (in the front portion of the wheelwell) secured. I am hoping to not cut a perfect lower fender to tighten the fitting.

1st the -16 is in my opinion to large for the tanks. I do not roll them in but depending on tank the 1” or 2 “ fittings for the filler and vent may require trimming. I put the tanks into the opening then put the fittings in at that point then bolt the tank up. It’s really the best way I have found.

[930cabman]

I would also add this. If you stay with 2.7 or less it really simplifies things. No front oil cooler, no special flywheel and pretty straightforward. You still can get mounts for $350, sheet metal, $450, flywheel, $300, headers, $600, muffler $400, modded cooler $150, modded shift linkage $150, DIY wiring harness free, oil tank set up and oil lines $1000,last thing to decide if your induction so let’s just say 3200 in parts without including induction to get rolling. Seems like a decent deal to be honest.

Yea, like I mentioned, if George isn’t into conversions, there are plenty of people who are. Call Ben/MB911 if you want one done. I wish I knew him when I had flares welded on my car.

Happy to help. How I read into George’s statement is that in reflection they are only original once and I think he is speaking from that perspective

TIA, can you offer any wisdom with regards to "roll in " the oil tank with the AN 16 fitting (in the front portion of the wheelwell) secured. I am hoping to not cut a perfect lower fender to tighten the fitting.

1st the -16 is in my opinion to large for the tanks. I do not roll them in but depending on tank the 1” or 2 “ fittings for the filler and vent may require trimming. I put the tanks into the opening then put the fittings in at that point then bolt the tank up. It’s really the best way I have found.

The PMS tank is setup for the -16 hose/fitting. Also, I did remove about 3/8" from the vent tube to allow access. Is there a magic crows foot socket for this?

[horizontally-opposed]

Interesting question.

For:
1. The sound (!!!)
2. Pace and power
3. Takes 914 from fun/flickable/casual sports car to something less flickable but more exotic feeling—I'd say more exotic than an early 911 while being more sporting than, say, a period 246 Dino (which is more of a touring car that looks like a sports car than a sports car). Bottom line is the car feels even more special, if that makes sense? A 914 with a sweet flat six is pretty wonderful on the right day.

Against:
1. Cost, both for engine and all other upgrades needed and recommended
2. No longer quite the light, flickable momentum car it was with the four…partly due to more weight and partly due to a less approachable/more serious nature (both can probably be offset with more mods?)
3. No longer as nice on the freeway as it was with the fuel-injected Type IV, to the point I carry earplugs in the car. YMMV, and some of it is carbs…but a lot of it is engine noise (chains and overall harmonics). The engine noises are heavenly around town and with top off, but can get tiresome with the top on. Again, this is my car with a carb'd 2.2 with a factory airbox, and thus may not be like other six conversions.

If I had it to do over again? Yes, I probably would—though I might also consider some other options. Can I ever seem myself undoing it? No way.

[mb911]

I would also add this. If you stay with 2.7 or less it really simplifies things. No front oil cooler, no special flywheel and pretty straightforward. You still can get mounts for $350, sheet metal, $450, flywheel, $300, headers, $600, muffler $400, modded cooler $150, modded shift linkage $150, DIY wiring harness free, oil tank set up and oil lines $1000,last thing to decide if your induction so let’s just say 3200 in parts without including induction to get rolling. Seems like a decent deal to be honest.

Yea, like I mentioned, if George isn’t into conversions, there are plenty of people who are. Call Ben/MB911 if you want one done. I wish I knew him when I had flares welded on my car.

Happy to help. How I read into George’s statement is that in reflection they are only original once and I think he is speaking from that perspective

TIA, can you offer any wisdom with regards to "roll in " the oil tank with the AN 16 fitting (in the front portion of the wheelwell) secured. I am hoping to not cut a perfect lower fender to tighten the fitting.

1st the -16 is in my opinion to large for the tanks. I do not roll them in but depending on tank the 1” or 2 “ fittings for the filler and vent may require trimming. I put the tanks into the opening then put the fittings in at that point then bolt the tank up. It’s really the best way I have found.

The PMS tank is setup for the -16 hose/fitting. Also, I did remove about 3/8" from the vent tube to allow access. Is there a magic crows foot socket for this?

No it’s not it’s a 22mm fitting as are mine and that’s OD

[mb911]

Meaning that 22mm ID fitting adapter are all about -12 so no reason to go to -16

[mb911]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

[ClayPerrine]

Full disclaimer I did run a front cooler on my car and it’s a 2.4 and we get pretty hot summers here in the mid 80s most the summer and a few weeks of 90 plus and I don’t drive my car then mostly because it runs like crap with the availability of quality fuels

For us, the mid 80s is a nice early spring day (middle of last week). Summer is 105 to 115 during the heat of the day. So an external oil cooler is not optional. It is a necessity.

The flip side is that in winter, we close the schools when two flakes of snow hit the ground. And that usually melts off by noon. 70 degrees on Christmas day is not the norm, but it is fairly common.

[930cabman]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/...01107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

[Luke M]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/...01107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

I had this exact PMS kit. All it does is it allows you to modify a 911 engine oil cooler to use in a 914. It shortens the inlet pipe so the old inlet gets cut off and new welded on. Then you fit the -16 hose from the engine cooler to the oil tank. It uses 1, SS -16 hose/fittings to connect the oil tank to cooler. No need for 2 lines and 90 degree engine oil cooler like the org 6. I did not end up using this setup and sold it a while ago. I did keep the steel return tube as I will have a need for that. I ended up buying a new 914-6 oil cooler and lines. That's what I'll be using in my 6 once it's done. I'll be running a 3.4 6 with a front cooler and Ben's GT steel lines and associated hardware/lines. The oil line on the tank to engine cooler can be a pain but I install/clock hose prior to installing the tank into the chassis. I Never had an issue installing or removing an org 6 oil tank. I can not say the same for an aftermarket oil tank as I never installed one.

[TROJANMAN]

Interesting question.

For:
1. The sound (!!!)

3. Takes 914 from fun/flickable/casual sports car to something less flickable but more exotic feeling—

Against:
2. No longer quite the light, flickable momentum car it was with the four…partly due to more weight and partly due to a less approachable/more serious nature (both can probably be offset with more mods?)
3. No longer as nice on the freeway as it was with the fuel-injected Type IV, to the point I carry earplugs in the car. YMMV, and some of it is carbs…but a lot of it is engine noise (chains and overall harmonics). The engine noises are heavenly around town and with top off, but can get tiresome with the top on.

Your answers are schizophrenic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

But I agree with them. This is exactly why everyone needs a minimum of TWO 914s.



If you plan on wanting a daily driver, the 4 is the way to go.
And this is probably why I would answer NO to the question.
I much prefer driving the 4 every day, than driving the six only on nice days.

YMMV (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mepstein]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/...01107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

Nothing that you can’t do on your own. Kits are nice but the shortened 911 return tube didn’t work on my 3.2 with heat exchangers. Probably fine with headers.

[mb911]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/...01107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

Nope same exact fittings I use on my tanks 22mm so any adapter screwed into that adapter reduces the size to just slightly larger than -12 . Trust me I have spent years researching it. I even worked with the guy that designed the Patrick tanks before Patrick took them over when he moved to Australia. No 2 ways to cut it. Basically you approximate .600 diameter of flow coming out of the tank and the same going into the oil pump. So the best thing to consider is the -16 stuff you have is kind of a holding tank. It is the best marketing ever just like k&n air filters.

[mb911]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/...01107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

Nothing that you can’t do on your own. Kits are nice but the shortened 911 return tube didn’t work on my 3.2 with heat exchangers. Probably fine with headers.

Yup after supplying parts now for this for 7 years and doing more conversions then I can count I prefer going backwards and over the bell housing then forward for conversions way cleaner and away from the heat exchangers

[mepstein]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/...01107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

Nothing that you can’t do on your own. Kits are nice but the shortened 911 return tube didn’t work on my 3.2 with heat exchangers. Probably fine with headers.

Yup after supplying parts now for this for 7 years and doing more conversions then I can count I prefer going backwards and over the bell housing then forward for conversions way cleaner and away from the heat exchangers

Exactly what I’m planning what you already set up for me for my next conversion. Including the 993 headers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


I think it takes a conversion or two under your belt to get the feel for how everything goes together. The devils in the details.

[930cabman]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/...01107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

Nothing that you can’t do on your own. Kits are nice but the shortened 911 return tube didn’t work on my 3.2 with heat exchangers. Probably fine with headers.

Yup after supplying parts now for this for 7 years and doing more conversions then I can count I prefer going backwards and over the bell housing then forward for conversions way cleaner and away from the heat exchangers

Exactly what I’m planning what you already set up for me for my next conversion. Including the 993 headers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


I think it takes a conversion or two under your belt to get the feel for how everything goes together. The devils in the details.

The details is always what makes it a success or so so. I am getting close to completion and can almost taste victory, today I managed to get the oil tank installed WITH the lower hose attached. Simple, remove the rotor and caliper.

The next one will be much easier for sure

[burton73]

As most of you know, I have a real 6 the 30 one made but back in the early 80s I had a 1974 2.0 factory black car that I converted to a 1979 3.0 911sc eng with the help of my old bud Galen Beaker. That was 40 years ago. The picture is very old and in bad shape, but you can make out the parts that you could just get at the local dealer. In Picture is my now 41 year old first daughter and my 70 Dodge Challenger Convertible in Hemi orange

The car had an almost new 911sc front suspension ad 5 lug Gas Burners. I never finished the conversion and used the Factory fuel injection on my 79 911sc that I blow up the air box on. It was the time when people started to use the pop off valves on the air boxes.

After having it at the body shop for 2 years I never finished it and sold it with just what you see for $6,000. To a 356 guy that told me he hated the 5 lug wheels.

After I got a fast ride at a buddy’s factory 6 with an SC Eng. in it all I wanted was a six.
Today I think it is easer that ever to do a six converstion in.

Take care buds,

Bob B Burton

[930cabman]

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/...01107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

I had this exact PMS kit. All it does is it allows you to modify a 911 engine oil cooler to use in a 914. It shortens the inlet pipe so the old inlet gets cut off and new welded on. Then you fit the -16 hose from the engine cooler to the oil tank. It uses 1, SS -16 hose/fittings to connect the oil tank to cooler. No need for 2 lines and 90 degree engine oil cooler like the org 6. I did not end up using this setup and sold it a while ago. I did keep the steel return tube as I will have a need for that. I ended up buying a new 914-6 oil cooler and lines. That's what I'll be using in my 6 once it's done. I'll be running a 3.4 6 with a front cooler and Ben's GT steel lines and associated hardware/lines. The oil line on the tank to engine cooler can be a pain but I install/clock hose prior to installing the tank into the chassis. I Never had an issue installing or removing an org 6 oil tank. I can not say the same for an aftermarket oil tank as I never installed one.

I used Larry Eksten build my 2.7 and he sourced a new correct 914/6 oil cooler so the adapter fitting was not used. Looking back I would not use this kit again as I also changed the hard pipe as supplied.

[mlindner]

Ben, is the return line from the engine block to the tank over the bell housing one complete hose. Are you selling them. Mine go's under the headers to the front....not smart. Mark