shopping for a helmet, suggestions Options

[Dave_Darling]

PCA rules vary from zone to zone, possibly from region to region. Evidently in Indy you need SA for track events. In N. Cal, you can use an M-rated helmet for DE and time trials. As I recall, NASA allowed M-rated helmets on the Big Track, though very possibly not for wheel-to-wheel stuff.

Just about everyone allows M-rated helmets for autoX. I use an open-face helmet, because it's a lot less hassle to deal with (glasses, etc.) than a full-face one. I do realize that there is extra risk in this, but I am fine with accepting that risk.

I wouldn't bother getting a full-face helmet without a face shield. You can always flip it up if you need to!

If I were more serious about getting on track, I would probably find myself an SA-rated full-face helmet. With shield. (Bonus: I could use it at the Kart track, too!)

--DD

[WRX914]

QUOTE (jhadler @ Jan 12 2006, 11:48 AM)

"If you have a $10 head, get a $10 helmet."

Could not have said it better. ..

My advise:

Get the best full face helmet with a shield that you can afford.

I use a Bell Dominator which costs around $1,000.00 it is carbon-kevlar constructed = light as hell. It has a SA200 rating and is lined with nomex (fire retardent material).

Legs, arms, ribs, etc... break and are fixable. Heads on the other hand tend to be a little more delicate. DO NOT SKIMP ON YOUR HELMET!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chair.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/w00t.gif)

[Richard Casto]

I have a full face and wouldn't do it any other way. I have the Bell model that has a larger eye port. I wear glasses, so there is some hassle with that, but in general it is not a problem. I have removed the visor for now, but may put it back on later.

When autocrossing, I am so focused on driving that I don't even notice I have a helmet on. So I don't know what an open faced model would do for me. I get more distracted by something loose rolling around in the car than anything else.

Sometimes I wonder if Snell is under some level of pressure to keep giving open face helmets the same ratings as closed. I beleive that Snell generally makes changes (tougher) to how they test helmets and at some point I can see open face helmets just not making the cut. Or the standard just has a loophole that allows openface to not be tested in some ways (such as a potential chin or face impact test).

[TROJANMAN]

i think everyone has said why they would choose full face, but i haven't seen anyone say why they would choose and open face helmet ? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

[lapuwali]

The $10 head, $10 helmet line wasn't true then, and isn't true today.

Beyond a certain price point, you're no longer paying for more protection by spending more money. You're paying for more comfort, less weight, and bling. That price point can be startlingly low. In some tests, done to to show the actual G loads applied to the skull in a set impact, a plain HJC helmet retailing at under $200 was out-performing helmets costing well over $500 retail.

The motorcycle press has covered this fairly extensively over the last couple of years. There's quite a bit of controversy over the current standards, with Snell getting slammed by some of the researchers that have been working on the subject for decades. The EU standards are now such that they're incompatible with the Snell standards and, by some measures, the EU standards are safer.

Web Bike World is one such site that's covered this, citing a pair of articles in Motorcyclist, all of which read like they were written by grownups.

Buy a $1000 helmet if it makes you feel good, but don't try to convince others that it provides any more protection that a $200 helmet, because chances are better than even it doesn't. It's lighter, and no doubt more comfortable, but not spending the $1K isn't necessarily "skimping" on safety.

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Jan 12 2006, 04:31 PM)

i think everyone has said why they would choose full face, but i haven't seen anyone say why they would choose and open face helmet ? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

Your glasses don't fog up or get broken as you try to slip them on after donning the helmet.

They're slightly easier to put on/take off, with or without glasses.

They're generally cheaper.

[seanery]

lighter can be much safer regarding neck/whiplash injuries than a heavier one.

[TROJANMAN]

one more question....................

without a roll cage, would an M rated helmet be good enough?

[seanery]

no, IMHO, it's not...don't skimp on the noggin'

[Crazyhippy]

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Jan 12 2006, 04:37 PM)

one more question.................... without a roll cage, would an M rated helmet be good enough?

The biggest difference is Fire resistance. SA helmets are all Nomex lined, and M helmets are not. for AX it will be fine, but Most DE's require SA helmets for liability reasons.

Trying to save 50 bucks now will cost you 500 shortly (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Do it right, or do it twice

BJH

[carr914]

I don't see why anyone would buy anything other than a closed with a visor. You can flip it up, so that a nobrainer. If your first thought is I'm just going to auto-x, well I've seen some wicked stuff happen at auto-xs, plus what if you want to go carting with your friends, you want to wear somebody elses stinking lice infested POS. What if you decide in a year you want to do a DE or go to a school? But this is just my opinion. I also don't drive in any competition without a HANS, but that is another discussion.

T.C.

[carr914]

Also, IMHO the only reason Dale Earnhart died is because he was wearing an open face.

T.C.

[carr914]

My new lid. Bell GTX 2005 factory Black $475 w/ chin spoiler and rear diffuser - Wine Country Motorsports, Good prices, Great service, on both coasts.

T.C.

[Dave_Darling]

OK, someone wanted to know why anyone would bother with an open-face helmet at all. I'll put my foot into that bear trap...

First, note that I do not advocate anyone specifically getting an open-face helmet. I will merely relate my own personal reasons for using one.

As I said, I believe that the risks are higher when wearing my open-face helmet. However, as a lifelong wearer of glasses, I found the hassle factor of dealing with a full-face helmet at autoXes to be very high. It doesn't help that I've got a really huge head (hat size == 7 7/8 or 8). My glasses tend to be very difficult to fit onto my face through the eyeport of a full-face helmet. I damaged the temple of one pair of glasses trying to slide them past the inner padding of one (loaner) full-face, and was not happy about that. When I tried on full-face helmets, I found my glasses reacting similarly to the ones that were damaged.

I also wear earrings. Full-face helmets do not "pull open" as far as open-face ones can around the ears when putting them on. I leave it to your imagination what may have happened to me on this point...

I find open-face helmets to generally be lighter and more comfortable than full-face ones.

They are almost always cheaper.


Now, all that said--if my seat belts release upon an impact, I will wind up needing surgery to reconstruct what's left of my face, and to remove the steering wheel from it. If the belts stretch too much, likewise. If I wind up going through a large cloud of dirt/sand/dust/debris while on track (or rapidly leaving it, much more likely! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) ) I have much better odds of getting something in my eyes which could cause me serious short-term (or long-term) problems. My chin is one of the primary impact points if anything goes seriously wrong. The risk of all of this is significantly higher on the Big Track than at an autoX.

I feel that I understand these risks, and I feel that the other factors mentioned outweigh them in my particular case. If you choose to get an open-face helmet, you need to understand the risks as well.

--DD

[carr914]

Dave, I can understand the glasses excuse. As far as earrings, I would suggest wearing a balaclava. I wear one no matter what I'm doing and been laughed at, but it's better that ripping my ears off getting my helmets off (especially a Biaffe I had years ago) plus the balaclava holds most of the sweat off my head. I can wash the balaclavas and my helmet is fresher.

T.C.

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (carr914 @ Jan 12 2006, 05:08 PM)

Also, IMHO the only reason Dale Earnhart died is because he was wearing an open face. T.C.

That's a very controversial statement, and I don't believe it's entirely true. Earnhardt's belts failed because they were installed improperly (a fact that was pointed out to the team more than once by the manufacturer), this allowed him to move forward far more than he would have had his belts worked as designed, so his head and neck were subjected to substantially higher forces than they would have been.

I'm not trying to advocate wearing a cheap open face helmet, but there's no need to inflate or distort facts to fit opinions.

Is an full face helmet safer than an open face helmet? Very probably, in most cases.
Is a lighter helmet safer than a heavier helmet? Maybe.
Is carbon/kevlar helmet safer than a polycarbonate helmet? Not always, no.

For AX, quite frankly, I think a helmet AT ALL is generally overkill, and that you need to wear one is an insurance issue, not an actual safety issue. Accidents are very rare in AX, though they do happen (and yes, I've heard the stories). I'd say you'd a LOT more likely to have a crash driving to or from the event than you are at the event, and I doubt if many of us regularly wear helmets in cars on the street.

Certainly, if AX is your primary goal, then an cheap open face helmet is perfectly acceptable. If you later decide to do a track event or the like later, one of the low-end full face SA-rated Bells will only set you back $300-400 at one of the discounters.

[Allan]

QUOTE (carr914 @ Jan 12 2006, 05:08 PM)

Also, IMHO the only reason Dale Earnhart died is because he was wearing an open face. T.C.

He was Dale you guys.....


He refused to wear a HANS....


No harm no foul...

[TROJANMAN]

QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Jan 12 2006, 05:22 PM)

OK, someone wanted to know why anyone would bother with an open-face helmet at all. I'll put my foot into that bear trap... First, note that I do not advocate anyone specifically getting an open-face helmet. I will merely relate my own personal reasons for using one.

spoken like someone married to a lawyer....... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

[Howard]

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Jan 12 2006, 12:11 PM)

QUOTE (Headrage @ Jan 12 2006, 12:02 PM) QUOTE (SLITS @ Jan 12 2006, 11:45 AM) Snell 2005, either auto or motorcyle in Region 15 of the PCA, POA or whatever the hell they call it. Does it matter if it's M or SA? M is motorcycle SA is auto the biggest difference is in the fire resistant liner. most club racing events require SA ratings, but check with your local PCA to see what is required for DE events. locally, we need to have a snell 2000 and M rated helmets are ok for DE events.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe SA is made for the 'big hit' collision with the roll cage/car interior and M is for the multiple bumps and abasions more common in M/C crashes.

I know my SA is Kevlar/Fiberglass blend and the M's are not. Anyone know for sure?

[TROJANMAN]

i think it is the other way around howard. the M is for the big hit and skid on the pavement and the SA is for the multiple whiplash hits on the cage. or so i've been told................... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif)

i'll look it up.