 Titanium Connecting Rods, Pumping people for info. |
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| Elliot_Cannon |
 Feb 4 2006, 11:47 PM
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#21
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Senior Member  Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,922 Joined: 26-March 03 From: Orange County Ca Member No.: 480 Region Association: None  |
Well! Golly! We don't want to hurt anyones feelings. I just wish I knew what the fuck they're all talking about. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) Cheers, Elliot |
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| alpha434 |
Feb 5 2006, 01:47 AM
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#22
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My member number is no coincidence. Group: Members Posts: 3,154 Joined: 16-December 05 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 5,280 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Ouch. . . At least Tim wanted to help. |
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| Mueller |
Feb 5 2006, 02:07 AM
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#23
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,150 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None 
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to get a better idea of the design/shape differences between steel, alum and Ti, I'd look at Chevy rods.
Easy to find and some you could get for free that have been used past thier useful life. Study each one to see where material was added or removed.....just make sure you are comparing rods from the same motor and size..... Check out this page, they show a 911 Ti rod from a 2.2, now all you need to do is find a picture of a 2.2 steel unit and compare to get a general idea. Pauter Racing |
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| messix |
Feb 5 2006, 02:11 AM
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#24
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
all i know about ti is that machining is a bitch and you treat it like its made of glass when handling it, and above all it's a waste of money unless your budget can afford unobtainium and then why would they come to you for some thing that is so diffacult and fragile to produce with reliabilty for critical engine componants when they should be going to a manufacture that has tested and proven processes to make these parts.
sorry but it seems someone is stroking you. or maybe doesn't know what their getting into. |
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| alpha434 |
Feb 5 2006, 02:45 AM
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#25
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My member number is no coincidence. Group: Members Posts: 3,154 Joined: 16-December 05 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 5,280 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Alright. You guys have talked me out of it. Yeah right. Did nobody read the first post? You aren't going to talk me out of it. Pros and Cons. Possibility of obtaining a usable design + Slight performance upgrade + Possibilty of blown engine to get there - High cost of material (which I'm NOT paying for, and which I AM trained to machine) - Data obtained from research and developement +++++ And the one about the Ti fires was funny. Yes I've seen Ti burn. Melted a hole through three feet of concrete. Some kid tried to "heat treat" it and it ignited. Burned a hole in the oven too. Never seen Ti burn with water like Mg though. I had the owner of a company turn on the coolant once while I was running Mg. I quit over that. Nothing caught fire. |
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| MattR |
Feb 5 2006, 02:55 AM
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#26
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,279 Joined: 23-January 04 From: SF Bay Area Member No.: 1,589 Region Association: Northern California |
Ahh, dont worry about elliotT. He's just a grumpy old guy... |
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| Twystd1 |
Feb 5 2006, 02:57 AM
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#27
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You don't want to know... really..... Group: Members Posts: 2,514 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Newport Beach, California Member No.: 2,743 |
Just stay with it...
Anything that can help OUR cause is of great relavence. Twystd1 |
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| URY914 |
Feb 5 2006, 08:00 AM
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#28
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 123,027 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
I would say more like zero REAL performance upgrade. But now if you doing this to have something to do, to get some pratice with Ti thats a different story. But hay not start a little smaller, like a Ti fuel pump bracket (like the 935 one below) or door handle? You know, something useful.(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) This post has been edited by URY914: Feb 5 2006, 08:04 AM |
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| URY914 |
Feb 5 2006, 08:05 AM
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#29
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 123,027 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) TI 935 fuel pump bracket.
Simple. Attached image(s) 
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| J P Stein |
Feb 5 2006, 09:48 AM
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#30
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Stuff I think I know bout Titanium:
Expensive in aircraft grades. Notch sensetive, but sure as hell not fragile. Fragile don't cut it when you're trying to hold back 100K lbs of thrust. Sensetive to the Halogens but only in hi-temp (over 600 deg F) service. Special cutters required...not to mention feeds & speeds. Heavy duty machines are needed. Ti wears these out pretty quickly. Heat treat with vacuum furnace. Alpha case is a killer.....if you don't know what Alpha case is, you better find out. UT, Xray & penetrant insp for NDT. Billet sux for rods.....and most hi strength parts. Read up on grain direction Forgings are REAL expensive and the lead time is about 2 years for a die.....maybe less for a smaller one. Russia has most of the raw material.....a big percentage. The outfit I work for machines hundreds of tons of the stuff per year......mainly because few biddensses want to screw with it.......expense of materials is the main bug a boo. We machine forgings that cost over 100k American....minus shipping (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Good luck. |
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| IronHillRestorations |
Feb 5 2006, 10:12 AM
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#31
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,760 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None
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My guess is the raw material alone would cost about what you paid for your 914! And then you've got to make forging dies....
Where's the keep my lip buttoned smile??? Spend your money on getting your speedometer recalibrated! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) |
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| Twystd1 |
Feb 5 2006, 06:55 PM
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#32
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You don't want to know... really..... Group: Members Posts: 2,514 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Newport Beach, California Member No.: 2,743 |
Aw... You guys are to hard on the kid.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)
The machinist I use is making a set of billet Ti rods for a Suby engine as we speak. He has been fabricating one off trick stuff for years.. He bought the Ti from from a metal testing lab for cheap. It's a amazing what you can find if you only need enough metal for one project. On the cheap..... So Alpha.. I assume you are going to spin this engine VERY FAST... What kind of RPMs are you looking for??? Twystd1 |
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| Katmanken |
Feb 5 2006, 07:08 PM
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#33
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Twystd
Titanium and cheap don't go together in the same sentence. Was the Ti from the materials lab load tested? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif) The surface of the crap work hardens as you machine it so second pass may be much more difficult than the first. Grinds ok though...... There is a reason they don't sell titanium sheet.... They sell titanium foil because of all the trouble they have to go through to make it.... Try to bend it 90 degrees and it work hardens and..... snap...... Hadda come up with localized laser heating for that one...... Titanium makes a great getter when heated..... Sucks up every stray gas molecule it can... can you say embrittlement boys and girls. Bet your machinist has a whole new vocabulary of words.... #$)%$&&%&#_%+%% (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Ken |
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| J P Stein |
Feb 5 2006, 07:20 PM
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#34
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Relax, Ken, it's just a Subie engine. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) |
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| MattR |
Feb 5 2006, 07:30 PM
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#35
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,279 Joined: 23-January 04 From: SF Bay Area Member No.: 1,589 Region Association: Northern California |
Its amazing you are so critical of other people's abilities. How do you know his machinist hasnt done R&D for major auto makers? How do you know his machinist didnt write the book on engine machining? How do you know this machinist hasnt been a college instructor? And has been doing this for YEARS. I happen to use the same machinist as Clayton, and if he says he can work with Ti, it means he has done it and probably mastered it. Also, cheap is relative. So is speed. And speed isnt cheap. |
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| URY914 |
Feb 5 2006, 08:38 PM
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#36
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 123,027 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
It's amazing how you seem so tolerant of a guy that everyone else thinks is out in left field. |
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| Katmanken |
Feb 5 2006, 09:27 PM
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#37
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Matt,
As an engineer, I've had some painful lessons from Titanium and have learned to have a lot of respect for it. I only use it when needed. Those "critical" statements of mine are factual and learned from the school of hard knocks. I would just feel bad for anyone if they had made parts from titanium, didn't watch out for the many pitfalls of the stuff, and someone got a nasty surprise in a high rpm condition. All it takes is something simple as a wash in tap water to turn titanium into a ticking time bomb that will come apart. Everybody I know that can work the stuff cusses when I bring them titanium. The guys I use make parts for GE Aircraft Engines for a living. What's that JP? Subie parts? .... Nevermind (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif) Ken |
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| Katmanken |
Feb 5 2006, 09:31 PM
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#38
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Gee thanks URY...
Love you too (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/finger.gif) Ken (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) |
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| TimT |
Feb 5 2006, 09:46 PM
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#39
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retired Group: Members Posts: 4,033 Joined: 18-February 03 From: Wantagh, NY Member No.: 313 |
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| URY914 |
Feb 5 2006, 10:27 PM
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#40
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 123,027 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
Ken, you got it wrong. I was saying how Matt keeps sticking up for Alpha434. I have no problem with what you said. Paul (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) |
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