Titanium Connecting Rods, Pumping people for info. Options

[eeyore]

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 5 2006, 05:30 PM)

Its amazing you are so critical of other people's abilities.

It isn't the abilities. Its the attitude -- "I don't care what you think, but I want what you know."

If gathering R&D information is such a '++++++' then why be hamstrung with information from a bunch of tradition-bound, naysaying sticks in the mud?

I say, "Defy convention!" Find out for yourself what shape Ti wants to be when spun around a crankshaft at 6K RPM. Build a single cylinder engine just like Ricardo and run connecting rods to destruction. Then, be sure to test to destruction a few times, just to make sure your final shape truly is a correct match for the purpose and conditions for which it was intended.

[MattR]

QUOTE (Cloudbuster @ Feb 5 2006, 08:28 PM)

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 5 2006, 05:30 PM) Its amazing you are so critical of other people's abilities. It isn't the abilities. Its the attitude -- "I don't care what you think, but I want what you know." If gathering R&D information is such a '++++++' then why be hamstrung with information from a bunch of tradition-bound, naysaying sticks in the mud? I say, "Defy convention!" Find out for yourself what shape Ti wants to be when spun around a crankshaft at 6K RPM. Build a single cylinder engine just like Ricardo and run connecting rods to destruction. Then, be sure to test to destruction a few times, just to make sure your final shape truly is a correct match for the purpose and conditions for which it was intended.

My post was in response to Tywstd1's machinst.

I'm pretty sick of this thread. I get it, alpha has rubbed a few of you the wrong way. Big deal! He isnt the first 20 year old post whore (myself?). I'm just going to relax. I have midterms this week and next week, and I have a few long nights preparing for a POC thing this weekend..

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/drunk.gif)

[Katmanken]

Thanks URY,

You DID notice the other smiley below the finger smiley didn't you? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Ya gotta learn sometime guys. A lot of things I've done have been in spite of people saying it couldn't be done...

Knock yerself out...

Mmmmmmmm popcorn.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/popcorn[1].gif)

Ken

[Twystd1]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) You guy's have me smiling.

Especially when the young ones get my anger up...

Of course Alpha is all about himslef. Thats how it is now days. (like I was)

The young ones always push the older guys. Thats how they find their place in the circle of men..

Sometime I just forget what it was like to be a young man who thinks that I know better than the old guys..
And not know how to ask the questions in a way that will promote harmony instead of animosity.

So Alpha.. you just go ahead and make us nay sayers wrong. The worst that will happen is you will learn something.

The best that will happen you will learn something...

Either way.. you can't lose anything more than time and $s.

And Alpha... We will all continue to kick your ass around... Only to teach you... Just like I was taught....
It's a good thing.. You will see that in time.

If you need any help on the fab side.. PM me... You can talk to my machinist friend for some data...

He has doing this kind of R&d stuff for racing teams and such for 30 years....

Including all of the coatings and metal treatment you will need after you are finished machining your rods.

Make us wrong Alpha. And learn while ya do it.

And thanks for being on this forum... And reminding me about what it was like to be a young man... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

AND a serious PAIN IN THE ass....... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

Regards to all.....

Twystd1


PS: I am still laughing as I proof read this...
I love the young guys.... They keep me straight and on purpose.

[MattR]

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Feb 5 2006, 09:11 PM)

I love the young guys.... They keep me straight

Not aaron...


oh wait... nevermind

[Aaron Cox]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

old guys rock. they share knowledge that theyve accumulated. kinda accelerates the whole learning process whenyou got someone who has BTDT 50 years before....

[Twystd1]

Note:

According to the boyz at shop talk forums...

Ti rods in Type1 style will be sold through CB performance very soon........

They will be ostensibly made by eagle rods.

Jake paid bout 2,350 for a set (4) of crowers.

Hey Richard... Give us the dope on what you know about the Ti rods that are coming up for sale..

Cause ya see guys... Richard knows stuff none of us know... he is just that kind of guy.....

Richard,
And yup... we are having dinner next week.. With MattR
I am afraid to tell you......

Twystd1

[MattR]

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Feb 5 2006, 10:42 PM)

Richard, And yup... we are having dinner next week.. With MattR I am afraid to tell you...... Twystd1

Sweet.

Do I get to pay too? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Mueller]

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Feb 5 2006, 11:42 PM)

They will be ostensibly made by eagle rods.

are Eagle rods made in China?

had an interesting talk with a fellow that mentioned quite a bit of forged items that come from China used for cars are made in foundries that specialize in Military hardware...

[Twystd1]

Mike I don't have a clue.

But much like SCAT... I know that Eagle DOES have some of their forgings produced in China and are finish machined in the USA..

Thats all I know.

And someone said earlier that Ti rods are typically forged and then machined to keep the grain structure going correctly.. I do believe they are correct.

Now I have to ask my machinist how he is going to use Billet Ti rods that may have grain structure issues...

The more time I spend on this forum.. the more I reralize that I don't know jack...

Thank god for the guys that do..!!!!!!!!

(IMG:http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/e088.gif) ME.. Thinking about Slits... Who is.........Thinking about Aaron......

Twystd1

[Twystd1]

Before I forget Mike,

Does your friend from China have any military hardware for sale????
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Dude.... Just couldn't help myself (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) ......... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

[alpha434]

Pictures from titanium project for vocational school, two years ago. I made about thirty of the rings just for fun. I wear one every day. It's the aircraft grade. And the secret to cutting Ti, I've found, is to use high speed three flute endmills (for milling ops) and high rake lathe tools. Reduce the chip load to .001 and it won't start to get "hard" unless you start to heat it up. So use coolant or plenty of cutting fluid. Nobody should assume that I'm unskilled just because I'm young. Thats REALLY annoying. And Ti is really easy compared to ultem or niobium zirconia, or even tantellum. Hell. 99% pure copper is more of a bitch to machine then Ti. I'll include a pic of what I can do with that. Now this is all assuming that you don't mind getting your arms cut to hell while you're standing at your machine, or that you have an enclosed machining center. Anyway, I got what I wanted. The pictures of the Ti rods. Thanks all. Too bad I was out of town and couldn't defend myself. Most of my closest friends are "old." As in grey hair. Their problem, too, is that they resist change. This works well enough, why do differently? Well. Twysted is right. I want my engine to spin really fast. SCCA doesn't have a rpm restriction. And Ury should think this is a great idea. Imagine the weight I'm shaving off.

(IMG:http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f51/alpha434/CML_538.jpg)
(IMG:http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f51/alpha434/CML_539.jpg)
(IMG:http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f51/alpha434/CML_540.jpg)

[Mueller]

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Feb 6 2006, 05:52 AM)

Before I forget Mike, Does your friend from China have any military hardware for sale???? . . . . . . . . . Dude.... Just couldn't help myself (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) ......... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

I'll have to ask (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) ...once my "drama" is over, I'll be in the market for a .308 Win, leaning towards a Savage...buddy is building a .338 Lapua Magnum....going to cost more than my 914 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

I wanted a Ti wedding ring from Statman Designs but wife overruled that idea, hahaha

[alpha434]

Carbide is the new thing with rings. I don't know why.

I've got laser etching equipment at my disposal. I was planning to do some really exotic engravings, but I never got around to it.

Thats getting off topic. Anyway. cloudbuster is kinda right. I should find out for myself what Ti should be shaped like. Except that that'll take LOTS of time. And LOTS of money. It wouldn't fit with my current R&D budget. This is the research part of R&D. Where I ask someone else. The I analyze the data given to me and make professional decisions on where to go next. I.E. a photographic comparison between Ti rods and steel rods for the same engine. Expirementally, someone wants to fund airfoil shaped rods for a 6. I'll do that here soon.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 6 2006, 12:42 PM)

Carbide is the new thing with rings. I don't know why. I've got laser etching equipment at my disposal. I was planning to do some really exotic engravings, but I never got around to it.

i've never machined Ti, I have a couple of chunks I bought off of eBay, but for now, they are just collecting dust till I get really bored and have nothing to do...like that'll happen anytime soon (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[alpha434]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 6 2006, 11:56 AM)

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 6 2006, 12:42 PM) Carbide is the new thing with rings. I don't know why. I've got laser etching equipment at my disposal. I was planning to do some really exotic engravings, but I never got around to it. i've never machined Ti, I have a couple of chunks I bought off of eBay, but for now, they are just collecting dust till I get really bored and have nothing to do...like that'll happen anytime soon (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

Like I said. high rake tooling and a .001 chipload at anygiven time. If you have to drill it, make one constant cut. All your tool wear will me on the engage in a cutting pass. I prefer to use high speed steel, because it's more forgiving in that kind of a situation.

[byndbad914]

I had the joy about 8 yrs ago working with some guys that had a bunch of 6" small blk chevy rods machined from ti and had issues with the coating wearing off quickly, which on a V8 is brutal. Shared journals means the rods rub against each other and ti-ti contact galls like a mf'er.

We searched and searched for almost a year at that time and found what was supposedly a good coating. They were willing to give me a set of 8 coated for $1200 to try in my engine, to which I quickly said fuck that! Build a crap 350 and just dyno it until is lets go (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) I wasn't about to make my $9300 engine a test bed (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif)

Last I knew a serious sprint car of some sort ran 2 full seasons with a set, so apparently they got the coating right. And sprint car rpm/spikes/variations, etc is just a whole new world of pain for an engine. Let alone the quantity of dirt that gets ran through oil passages - it's like a blood alcohol content... oil blew .24 on the dirt meter (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)

Another engine was a drag engine. In any case, both engines were torn down on a regular basis so it was easy to inspect the rods.

And I am with Twystd - ahh to be young again. And that is not trying to be an ass to alpha or one of those backhanded comments - I was just so much more eager to try anything and believe in my crazy ideas when I was 20. Christ, I was a god in my own mind at 20 and have to admit, it made for an interesting learning curve.

More power to you alpha! I know you say you gave up on it, but we all know in the back of your mind you are thinking "I could do that"..

And Eagle stuff is Chinese machined too - about 99% sure on that. At least that is what I was told by a vendor/middleman for Chinese stuff we were getting when I worked at a hot rod shop. Almost every set of Eagle H-beams I had to cut the caps and resize the big end because they were over spec. Machining is really hard to get good out of China, but the parts themselves are pretty solid. One of our customers was the first guy we knew of running 8.80s in a 10" tire Mustang with a blown 347 - right when the cheap Chinese rods and crank were hitting the market!!!

[alpha434]

C'mon. I'd never give up. Regardless of what people tell me.
I don't know about being a god in my own world though. That sounds a little (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif)
I'm only interested in this because someone else is pushing me with funding to back it. Which means I get a free set and a few engines to test them in. I DO need to know the coating, though. VERY VERY important, obviously. If you could track that down and pm me, I'd be much obliged.

[byndbad914]

I'll see what I can do... it has been a long time since I had contact with those guys, but an "old boss" might still have the connection on the coating...

BTW, wasn't implying you think you are a god or in your own world... I said at 20 I thought I was a god... and when I was 20 most of the things I did went far beyond (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) and straight to insane (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) I still laugh when I recall my first time on Willow Springs - guy let me drive his vintage 70 Mustang Boss 302 T/A car for a couple of laps and on the second lap ever in a race car I was running 145+ down the front straight "bumping the rev limiter" - then when I came in he asked how many rpm I was turning because he could hear the valves floating (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif) Some rev limiter. I had that car in a complete 4-wheel drift through turn 5 on that lap too when it used to be narrow running a double apex - I would line up the second apex fully sideways and nail the throttle to hook it back up. I lost those balls about 5 years ago (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif)

He let me drive that car quite a bit after that "as long as I paid for 1/2 the tires and kept it below 7500" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)

If I can track that coating info down, I will PM you, but trust me, there is about a 1% chance on that. I am so bad with names... I knew it 8 years ago, but thinking back, we were talking to no less than 10 different aerospace coaters throughout the Southwest/Ca area and I can't remember a single name. Too much info for my long term memory to retain... what was the question?

[alpha434]

You're the best.

It took about three times as long. But I think (after the coatings) that I've got every thing I need to make a move on this. I'm doing a test part out of aluminum. I guess I'll let everyone see that. Then I'll take that to my financial backer for revision and fitting to his 356s. Hopefully, I'll have something dynamic here. I may or may not be able to post pictures of the finished part. I'm going with a "low drag" shape that won't be a part of the test piece and may have to stay a secret. I've got a rocket scientist and 3 engineers to turn to if I have failure problems in the test stages.

And people really said I couldn't do it. I've already got three variations of cnc progs layed out.

So if anyone knows those coatings, That's what I need.