 The official, WTF happened to TurtleGirl's engine...., ...on the way to Moab. |
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| echocanyons |
 Sep 28 2006, 05:24 PM
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#61
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Advanced Member  Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,096 Joined: 24-December 02 From: Bay Area, CA Member No.: 7 Region Association: Central California 
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How did you take the heads off with the chain box in place?
I agree this is a good time for a bump in displacement and improved bolts |
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| sixnotfour |
Sep 28 2006, 05:48 PM
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#62
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,525 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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those are Deves rings , 3 piece oil ring ick, are those Kolbenschimt pistons or Mahle ? measure the ring thickness versus ring groove , chance off wrong rings installed.
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| Brian Mifsud |
Sep 28 2006, 06:24 PM
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#63
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Mechanical Engineer Group: Members Posts: 981 Joined: 3-March 03 From: Penngrove, CA Member No.: 384 Region Association: None |
clean that piston with acetone or carb cleaner.. the story will become much clearer...
I was just by a Buggy Shop yesterday, and they have all their "best hits" sitting under glass. A screw was sucked into a barrel and made the most PERFECT impressions (multiple times) all over the combustion chambers and piston before they broke. The detail was so perfect, it looks like you are actually looking at the screw itself! You have to study closely to see it's a concave/negative impression. |
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| Series9 |
Sep 28 2006, 06:48 PM
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#64
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
They're Mahle piston/cylinders.
Because it failed the way it did, I'm going with good old fashioned piston failure. Broken rings are one thing, but this was almost catastrophic. Again, I'm going with a simple piston failure. |
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| Allan |
Sep 28 2006, 07:03 PM
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#65
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Teenerless Weenie Group: Members Posts: 8,373 Joined: 5-July 04 From: Western Mesopotamia Member No.: 2,304 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Sep 28 2006, 04:18 PM)  QUOTE(GTeener @ Sep 28 2006, 04:15 PM) Ouch. How do the piston rings break? look closer.. how do RING LANDS break? Yep. Piston, not rings is the root cause based on the picture... How's everything else look so far Joe? |
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| Heeltoe914 |
Sep 28 2006, 07:05 PM
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#66
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,135 Joined: 31-January 06 From: Tujunga Calif, Member No.: 5,506 |
I may have an extra piston you can have just pay for ship. Maybe even a cylinder.
Are you going to do the rod bearings on that cylinder? And how many miles are on that motor? Just curious. |
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| Series9 |
Sep 28 2006, 07:11 PM
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#67
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Heeltoe914 @ Sep 28 2006, 07:05 PM) I may have an extra piston you can have just pay for ship. Maybe even a cylinder. Are you going to do the rod bearings on that cylinder? And how many miles are on that motor? Just curious. I would take a piston and cylinder if you have a pair. I'm not doing the bearings. I don't know how many miles. |
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| tracks914 |
Sep 28 2006, 07:35 PM
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#68
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Canadian Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,083 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Timmins, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 153 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 28 2006, 08:29 AM) QUOTE(jsteele22 @ Sep 28 2006, 07:11 AM) Okay, if this is gonna be a guessing game, my money is on a very small hole in the piston, a hole about the diameter of a ...... I remember that thread! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) chopstick. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) LOLOLOLOL Did no one else get the chop stick joke? That must be a classic thread here somewhere?? |
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| byndbad914 |
Sep 28 2006, 07:37 PM
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#69
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Matt Romanowski @ Sep 28 2006, 09:11 AM) Shoot, we've run turbo motors with no rings. High RPM race motors only run 1 ring - thin too - about 1mm. Matt small hijack - Matt, you have ran no rings whatsoever? I haven't heard of that before... but agree on the single compression ring thing. Built a 347 Ford for a guy years back that had 30+psi boost, ran a thin oil-control ring and a single 1/16" compression ring to get the crown above the top ring land as thick as possible. They only have a 1.090" compression height to begin with so 3 rings were just too tight and would hammer the top ring land down if he went a little lean.. which brings me to this question for Joe... Do you see signs of detonation on the top of that piston? Does it look like the top ring land hammered down onto the ring? Detonation can cause that, and once that top ring gets squished, then what you have in your had is what I have seen - just blows all the ring lands to pieces. Won't have a melted piston, just hammered upper... Your plug is all cruddy, but do the other plugs show detonation? I would worry that there has been long term detonation hammering the crowns on all the other pistons too and that was just the first to let go... proceed with caution. I have really never seen a piston fail "just because" or bad machining/casting tho' truly possible. Just more likely that piston failure was "caused", not "the cause". Best of luck - always sucks to be taking pictures of internals unless it is during assembly for the first time. |
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| McMark |
Sep 28 2006, 07:44 PM
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#70
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Were the injectors checked out? Fuel distributor? I'm thinking lean detonation/heat issue. I'd say check the injectors, if you haven't already.
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| Series9 |
Sep 28 2006, 08:03 PM
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#71
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(McMark @ Sep 28 2006, 07:44 PM) Were the injectors checked out? Fuel distributor? I'm thinking lean detonation/heat issue. I'd say check the injectors, if you haven't already. Every injector was flowed before we started the car the first time. It's a new fuel distributor and it's a little rich right now. All the other plugs look slightly on the rich side of normal. |
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| Series9 |
Sep 28 2006, 08:10 PM
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#72
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
Top ring clearence checks at .003"
The second ring is completely missing. |
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| Rider914 |
Sep 28 2006, 08:41 PM
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#73
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Member Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 13-April 04 From: Palm Beach Member No.: 1,923 |
QUOTE(Series9 @ Sep 26 2006, 01:44 PM) #5: Can we see a pic of another plug? I find postmortems fascinating . . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| Heeltoe914 |
Sep 28 2006, 08:50 PM
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#74
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,135 Joined: 31-January 06 From: Tujunga Calif, Member No.: 5,506 |
Joe I really dont have any books handy that till me if this piston and cylinders is what you are looking for. But If thay are its free to you, if no we tryed. Good luck
cylinder part#854/1A piston# 090202 2 Attached image(s)  
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| sixnotfour |
Sep 28 2006, 09:06 PM
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#75
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,525 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE Top ring clearence checks at .003" The second ring is completely missing. Its the second ring where there can be a problem. 1.5mm or 1.75mm 2 different ring set P/N's Check a good one to be sure or for shit and giggles. |
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| Series9 |
Sep 28 2006, 10:58 PM
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#76
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Heeltoe914 @ Sep 28 2006, 08:50 PM) Joe I really dont have any books handy that till me if this piston and cylinders is what you are looking for. But If thay are its free to you, if no we tryed. Good luck cylinder part#854/1A piston# 090202 2 Well, I REALLY appreciate the attempt, but they are not a match. The only 'part number' I can find on the piston is: 90L61 or CO21 The cylinder says: 90ZN2W5 I have to assume the '90' in both numbers refers to the diameter of the bore. In the pictures you sent, the skirt is also clearly different. |
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| Series9 |
Sep 28 2006, 11:06 PM
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#77
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(echocanyons @ Sep 28 2006, 05:24 PM) How did you take the heads off with the chain box in place? I agree this is a good time for a bump in displacement and improved bolts Once the cam is out and the cam tower is off, you can remove heads and cylinders at will. The chain housing has nothing to do with it once it's apart. And no, it'll remain a 2.7 unless it decides to eat itself completely. |
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| Series9 |
Sep 28 2006, 11:11 PM
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#78
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Heeltoe914 @ Sep 28 2006, 08:50 PM) Joe I really dont have any books handy that till me if this piston and cylinders is what you are looking for. But If thay are its free to you, if no we tryed. Good luck cylinder part#854/1A piston# 090202 2 That piston also appears to have a single compression ring..... Attached image(s) 
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| So.Cal.914 |
Sep 28 2006, 11:13 PM
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#79
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"...And it has a front trunk too." Group: Members Posts: 6,588 Joined: 15-February 04 From: Low Desert, CA./ Hills of N.J. Member No.: 1,658 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Series9 @ Sep 28 2006, 07:03 PM) QUOTE(McMark @ Sep 28 2006, 07:44 PM) Were the injectors checked out? Fuel distributor? I'm thinking lean detonation/heat issue. I'd say check the injectors, if you haven't already. Every injector was flowed before we started the car the first time. It's a new fuel distributor and it's a little rich right now. All the other plugs looks slightly on the rich side of normal. I wonder if it could have been those 12.5 revs. I've never had one of mine blow the lands, the top.. yes. |
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| Series9 |
Jan 25 2007, 07:15 PM
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#80
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
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