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> Steve's unending Progress thread, Air compressor setup recommendations
stephenaki
post Jul 5 2008, 04:39 AM
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OK, this will be the thread that I keep updated as I make progress. I showed up at 0800 at Christoph's place and he was ready for me with a not so glamorous chunk of metal that is my cars heart and soul.

With a little assistance, we loaded it into my Toyota Sienna, not quite I envisioned a mini-van for, and I was headed back to the house. Upon getting home I had to first make coffee then clear out some space in my tiny German garage. So that everyone has a frame of reference to the area that I am working in I have enclosed this lovely 4x6 glossy of my garage in Germany.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i273.photobucket.com-7987-1268747638.1.jpg)

And, for those of you not familiar with the Toyota Sienna, a shot of the engine in the back of the van. There's a lot of room back there for the motor but, it is awkward to get in and out of when loading a motor.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i273.photobucket.com-7987-1268747639.2.jpg)

Now to summarize what was accomplished on the 4th of July, engine brought home, tin, impeller and housing, exhaust, cylinder head and cylinders removed. I had difficulty removing the impeller hub. OK, I didn't get it removed, will need a puller and I don't have one unless anyone can give me any ideas how to get it off without a puller.

Now for the requisite pictures of the motor unmolested.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i273.photobucket.com-7987-1268747639.3.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i273.photobucket.com-7987-1268747640.4.jpg)

Now based on the initial tear down two problems presented it self first the primary issue with a lack of compression...HOLY SHIT!!! Here is what I found.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i273.photobucket.com-7987-1268747641.5.jpg)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Now the cylnder itself was not pitted, it had a build up of corrosion but otherwise in good condition. So I was thinking, maybe I can just clean hone and replace the piston. Well that thought went out the window when I pulled the cylinder directly opposite to it. As you can see by the photo, problem #2.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i273.photobucket.com-7987-1268747642.6.jpg)

More importantly, where did that piece of metal go? An initial look behind the piston shows a knick in the inner portion of the crankcase.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i273.photobucket.com-7987-1268747642.7.jpg)

I will see if there is more significant damage when I split the case; so it begins and were off to a rocket start here at the 914 follies! Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of "never buy a car sight unseen" later in the week! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Gonna go shower and start working on the motor some more. Plan is to have it completely torn down befor the end of this weekend. I will load up some pictures to my photo bucket album and post the link a bit later.
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Gustl
post Jul 5 2008, 06:18 AM
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QUOTE(stephenaki @ Jul 5 2008, 11:39 AM) *

Gonna go shower and start working on the motor some more. Plan is to have it completely torn down befor the end of this weekend. I will load up some pictures to my photo bucket album and post the link a bit later.

Steve, this looks like a lot of work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
so ... I guess you won't show up at Toni's BBQ today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I'll start within the next couple of minutes and will be there at about 1600 - already talked on the phone with Toni, the weather is brilliant, as he told me

I hope I can take some nice photos and show 'em tomorrow

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Gustl
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hcdmueller
post Jul 5 2008, 07:04 AM
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This whole scene looks very familiar. Your garage is exactly the same as mine. I have my 914 in there up on jack stands and I have been rebuilding the motor in the basement of my house.

If it turns out your block is not good let me know. I have a good one sitting at my house right now. It is all cleaned up and tapped for the oil galley plugs.

Don't feel too bad about not being able to drive it. I pulled my engine last august but work and the wife have conspired to keep me from finishing the install. I am close now. Next couple weeks.

Good luck.

Gustl, I can't wait to see pictures from Austria.
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Vacca Rabite
post Jul 5 2008, 08:59 AM
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I bet you will find all that metal in the sump when you split the case. You need new P/C for sure. Build a 1911/2056? May as well, as you have to buy new parts anyhow.

Zach
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ericread
post Jul 5 2008, 02:09 PM
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Get serious. With a bit of Mother's, it'll buff right out.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

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stephenaki
post Jul 5 2008, 03:23 PM
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OK, so I didn't get as much done today as I wanted. Wife went off somewhere so I was watching the crazy child part of the morning; at least until she went over to play at the neighbors.

I did get all the pistons out, clutch plate and flywheel pulled and started to loosen the bolts to crack the case. Clutch was cracked so I will have to replace that, not a big issue.

So, as I read through Jake's process of doing the conversion from 1.7 to 2.0 I recall the mention of machining the heads to a "105mm register." I am not sure I fully understand what is meant by "register." Are we talking about the area where the valves sit that forms part of the combustion chamber? Just want to make sure I know what were talking about.

If this is the case, I did measure the area and it is measuring at 105. So the next question will be the type of crank I have and the piston rod sizes. The pistons are measuring at 94 but I don't know how much the PO prior to the PO I bought if from knew about doing a proper conversion as outlined by Jake. I have the journal and rod specs so can do the measurement for the most part with the exception of the journals as I don't have a micrometer set...yet.

I am hoping that I can formulate a plan and establish what parts I will need by Monday. I will post more pictures tomorrow.

Chris,
I'll let you know if the case is toast or not. My hope is that the chunk of metal made it down to the sump as Zach predicts and didn't tear things up on its way there. Hope to find out tomorrow.

Gustl,
Sorry I didn't make it to Toni's shindig, let me know how it went.
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Dave_Darling
post Jul 5 2008, 10:59 PM
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Impeller hub: Get some fender washers or other large tough pieces of flat metal. Remove the fan, thread the fan bolts back into the hub. Trap the metal pieces between the ends of the bolts and the crankcase. Give each bolt 1/4 turn at a time, and the hub will pop off.

Register: That's the area of the head that the cylinder fits into.

--DD
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stephenaki
post Jul 6 2008, 01:42 AM
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QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jul 5 2008, 08:59 PM) *

Impeller hub: Get some fender washers or other large tough pieces of flat metal. Remove the fan, thread the fan bolts back into the hub. Trap the metal pieces between the ends of the bolts and the crankcase. Give each bolt 1/4 turn at a time, and the hub will pop off.

Register: That's the area of the head that the cylinder fits into.

--DD


Dave,
Thanks, I would have never thought of that for the hub removal, I believe I have several washers down in the basement that will work.

Thanks for confirming what I thought the "register" was. So now I know for sure the requisite head work was done at least partially. Will need to check valve sizes after I pull them. Hopefully will get the case split today to assess the case interior and the crank.
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Gustl
post Jul 6 2008, 06:49 AM
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QUOTE(hcdmueller @ Jul 5 2008, 02:04 PM) *

Gustl, I can't wait to see pictures from Austria.


in fact, the BBQ took place in Germany, about 20 min from Munich (direction Stuttgart)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Gustl
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Gustl
post Jul 6 2008, 06:51 AM
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QUOTE(stephenaki @ Jul 5 2008, 10:23 PM) *

Gustl,
Sorry I didn't make it to Toni's shindig, let me know how it went.


I'll start a new thread - it would be too much OT here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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stephenaki
post Jul 6 2008, 01:29 PM
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Case is split! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) So after we ran around this morning, I finally got to work on the motor some more. You know, Haynes isn't kidding when they say if it doesn't come apart easily there is still a bolt or nut somewhere that you missed! Good lord! I hope I can remember where the hell all the nuts and bolts go!

I did find the missing cylinder pieces, they got kinda chopped up and pieces were in the sump as Zach predicted. So, I did some reading after I split the case and, someone correct me if I am wrong, based on the rods on the crank I would say that I have a 1.7 crank and rod set. Picture below.
(IMG:http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/stephenaki/Porsche%20914/CIMG2475.jpg)
Anyone think otherwise? So here then is my question for the group and I am looking for your thoughts and recommendations.

Based on the fact that the head register was machined out to accommodate the larger cylinders but the crank and connecting rods are for a 1.7 vice 2.0. What is the way ahead? I am assuming I can't take her back down to a 1.7 and, based on Jakes article on his site, the 1.7 crank and connecting rods don't work very well with the 2.0 cylinder and re-machined heads.

Recommendations on the way ahead? My gut feeling is to pony up the dough and get a 2.0 crankshaft and just build a semi stock 2.0 with correct cylinders, pistons and connecting rods. What say ye oh omnipotent 914 Meisters? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

Finally the distributor gear has some nicks, photo below, major problem or can I just lightly file the sucker and smooth it out? I am assuming I will just use the existing gears on the 1.7 crank if I transfer to a 2.0 crank.
(IMG:http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/stephenaki/Porsche%20914/CIMG2469.jpg)

For those that want more engine porn, the link to my photo bucket album is as follows:
Steve's 914 photo bucket album

Looking forward to hearing some suggestions from the group.
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Joe Bob
post Jul 6 2008, 01:55 PM
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If you're married to that motor, get LN Engineering to do up a set of Nickies. Then rebuild it.

Otherwise, I would start with a fresh motor...one THAT YOU want and have it shipped over, use the parts like the carbs. Sell the rest on evilBay.

Doesn't military get a deal on shipping via MAC?
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stephenaki
post Jul 6 2008, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE(! @ Jul 6 2008, 11:55 AM) *

If you're married to that motor, get LN Engineering to do up a set of Nickies. Then rebuild it.

Otherwise, I would start with a fresh motor...one THAT YOU want and have it shipped over, use the parts like the carbs. Sell the rest on evilBay.

Doesn't military get a deal on shipping via MAC?


Fresh motor is not an option at this point. I am assuming that I can't just pick up a 1.7 mm set of cylinder's and pistons and throw them on based on the fact that the heads were machined out to a 105 register...or is this still an option? BLUF: just want to get it running long enough to finish out my tour in Germany and a year back stateside so I can get my MG put together. After that, I will do a complete tear down and restoration of the engine or buy a rebuilt one from Jake.
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hcdmueller
post Jul 6 2008, 05:04 PM
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New 96mm pistons and cylinders are available at Jake's store. You would have to reset the deck height and probably get new push rods. Add some new bearings, seals, and a few other odds and ends and you will be back in business. No need to get a 2.0 crank. If you upgrade to IDF or DRLA carbs you should get better performance too.

If you clean the heads up and post good pics of the combustion chamber Jake can usually spot cracks right away. It is actually kind of scary.
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Jake Raby
post Jul 6 2008, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE(hcdmueller @ Jul 6 2008, 04:04 PM) *

New 96mm pistons and cylinders are available at Jake's store. You would have to reset the deck height and probably get new push rods. Add some new bearings, seals, and a few other odds and ends and you will be back in business. No need to get a 2.0 crank. If you upgrade to IDF or DRLA carbs you should get better performance too.

If you clean the heads up and post good pics of the combustion chamber Jake can usually spot cracks right away. It is actually kind of scary.


Thanks Chris,
We ship to Europe daily and have shipped Chris several items including an entire engine kit and FI retrofit assembly..

My video would have pinpointed EVERY fastener on the case during dis-assembly, one by one and each is counted.

I can provide you with what's needed to just patch this engine up, no worries..
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stephenaki
post Jul 6 2008, 10:50 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 6 2008, 04:02 PM) *

QUOTE(hcdmueller @ Jul 6 2008, 04:04 PM) *

New 96mm pistons and cylinders are available at Jake's store. You would have to reset the deck height and probably get new push rods. Add some new bearings, seals, and a few other odds and ends and you will be back in business. No need to get a 2.0 crank. If you upgrade to IDF or DRLA carbs you should get better performance too.

If you clean the heads up and post good pics of the combustion chamber Jake can usually spot cracks right away. It is actually kind of scary.


Thanks Chris,
We ship to Europe daily and have shipped Chris several items including an entire engine kit and FI retrofit assembly..

My video would have pinpointed EVERY fastener on the case during dis-assembly, one by one and each is counted.

I can provide you with what's needed to just patch this engine up, no worries..

Chris, Jake,
So if I stick to 94s instead of going to 96s I assume that I don't have to reset the deck height and can stick with the same pushrods? I planned on getting new bearings regardless but will stick with the Dellorto carbs I have now.

I set everything up and kept them in order labeling each part so I know where it goes back to with the exception of the case bolts. What about the distributor gear, salvageable with cleaning up or toss and get a new one? I know that this is the cheap way out but I just need her running before it gets cold this season. I don't want to have to ride my motorcycle in the snow again! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

Thanks for all the help.
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ericread
post Jul 7 2008, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE(stephenaki @ Jul 6 2008, 09:50 PM) *

I just need her running before it gets cold this season. I don't want to have to ride my motorcycle in the snow again! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

Thanks for all the help.


Now I understand why you picked a 914 to work on. You needed a vehicle designed to perform well in the snow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

You might think of beefing up the heater...

Eric

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Dr Evil
post Jul 7 2008, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE(stephenaki @ Jul 7 2008, 12:50 AM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 6 2008, 04:02 PM) *

QUOTE(hcdmueller @ Jul 6 2008, 04:04 PM) *

New 96mm pistons and cylinders are available at Jake's store. You would have to reset the deck height and probably get new push rods. Add some new bearings, seals, and a few other odds and ends and you will be back in business. No need to get a 2.0 crank. If you upgrade to IDF or DRLA carbs you should get better performance too.

If you clean the heads up and post good pics of the combustion chamber Jake can usually spot cracks right away. It is actually kind of scary.


Thanks Chris,
We ship to Europe daily and have shipped Chris several items including an entire engine kit and FI retrofit assembly..

My video would have pinpointed EVERY fastener on the case during dis-assembly, one by one and each is counted.

I can provide you with what's needed to just patch this engine up, no worries..

Chris, Jake,
So if I stick to 94s instead of going to 96s I assume that I don't have to reset the deck height and can stick with the same pushrods? I planned on getting new bearings regardless but will stick with the Dellorto carbs I have now.

I set everything up and kept them in order labeling each part so I know where it goes back to with the exception of the case bolts. What about the distributor gear, salvageable with cleaning up or toss and get a new one? I know that this is the cheap way out but I just need her running before it gets cold this season. I don't want to have to ride my motorcycle in the snow again! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

Thanks for all the help.


I may be able to get you a 2.0 crank and rods if you need for real cheap. I would have to extract them from a junk core in my friends garage, but if it will help I would be glad to do it.
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r_towle
post Jul 7 2008, 05:37 PM
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I agree.

what parts do you need? I am sure we all have enough to get you going again.

Rich
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rick 918-S
post Jul 7 2008, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE(stephenaki @ Jul 6 2008, 08:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 6 2008, 04:02 PM) *

QUOTE(hcdmueller @ Jul 6 2008, 04:04 PM) *

New 96mm pistons and cylinders are available at Jake's store. You would have to reset the deck height and probably get new push rods. Add some new bearings, seals, and a few other odds and ends and you will be back in business. No need to get a 2.0 crank. If you upgrade to IDF or DRLA carbs you should get better performance too.

If you clean the heads up and post good pics of the combustion chamber Jake can usually spot cracks right away. It is actually kind of scary.


Thanks Chris,
We ship to Europe daily and have shipped Chris several items including an entire engine kit and FI retrofit assembly..

My video would have pinpointed EVERY fastener on the case during dis-assembly, one by one and each is counted.

I can provide you with what's needed to just patch this engine up, no worries..

Chris, Jake,
So if I stick to 94s instead of going to 96s I assume that I don't have to reset the deck height and can stick with the same pushrods? I planned on getting new bearings regardless but will stick with the Dellorto carbs I have now.

I set everything up and kept them in order labeling each part so I know where it goes back to with the exception of the case bolts. What about the distributor gear, salvageable with cleaning up or toss and get a new one? I know that this is the cheap way out but I just need her running before it gets cold this season. I don't want to have to ride my motorcycle in the snow again! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

Thanks for all the help.



Someone will answer your questions soon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

List the parts you need. I'm sure I don't have much but there are alot of guys here that do.
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